Question For Yavn kind of a Rant

[Laurabearz]

As a former die hard Mac user, some days I still miss my mac. I have my Dad's Old G3 in the basement that I have been tempted to fire up upon occaision....

My brother has one of the new 'all in one' macs that is bassicly just a large Screen and a keyboard... It ran VMK via Windows very nicely.

I made the jump to the dark side about 10 years ago after much frustration with lack of software and such. I have had more issues with PC in the past 10 years than I did with the preivous 20 years with Mac, BUT I can run a whole lot more programs with the PC so it all balances out... lol

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Thats the key Laura, you have less problems with a Mac because you have less stuff for it..

and you were on a Mac in 1976? I got my first Apple in 1986 - the Apple IIc - I preferred my Commodore to the Apple, but then when I got my IBM PS1 in 1988, I never looked back

 

[Laurabearz]

In 1976 we were still using the Radio SHack TRS-80 computer.... does that date me??? I have no idea what platform that was..... It was on the TRS-80 that we were first exposed to PONG!!!! rofl Such a high tech game we could not beleive it! lol

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I'm not sure if there is a post or not for this. So please bare with me when I ask the all powerful question....

In HM: When I click start game I still see the lobby and it says waiting for players, Once I'm in the room I see my opponent already walking around while my screen is still counting down, yet I can not move.

I also have this problem.

In Pirates: This game basically chooses when it wants to work or not. Stage 3 in any level always quits and sometimes It takes me back to the lobby after I pay my 21.

I have not had this problem since the upgrade (yet).

In JC: Since the new music my computer now takes 15 seconds to load each room, in this time my gas is running down and the animals pop up without me being able to click on them.

I also have had this problem. Which is why you haven't seen me in the top 10 much since then. It's everything I can do now just to make 60k let alone 64k.

In Fireworks: After each firework explodes it takes about 30 seconds before I can move my cursor to click on another.

I get a lot of freezing in the game, myself.

Now... when I go to a cousins house I play fireworks: I come in the Top 8, In HM: I catch 68 ghosts without dcing with 7 other players, In JC: I get double my regular score, and finally in Pirates: I don't get booted at all.

So you see my problem? I guess this is more of a rant and just wanted to throw it out there in the mix. I understand this is not VMKs fault since when I play on a PC it is a wonderful game and yes you do say it only supports MACs. BTW i do have comcast for this and I make sure my browser is the only app open.

Are you sure it's just because of your mac?
I'm on Windows XP Pro computer.
I also have limitations on my processor speed (1000 Mhz) and relatively low memory (384 MB).
These are my main problems with VMK. While I do understand that there are limitations with a Mac, maybe some of your problems stem from one or both of my own problems, too.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

In 1976 we were still using the Radio SHack TRS-80 computer.... does that date me??? I have no idea what platform that was..... It was on the TRS-80 that we were first exposed to PONG!!!! rofl Such a high tech game we could not beleive it! lol

haha, im dated as well. I was first exposed to programming on my trs-80 in 1978, by 81 I was a full fledged BASIC programmer (Vic20)

Neither computer actually HAD a basic platform - just a processor and ram pretty much and color sensors (which color would you like, green or not so green?), the programs you wrote for them or loaded on them had to CREATE the platform

 

[hagen]

Im not going to go into detail, but it is obvious the "Mac" people will seize any opportunity to hail it as better than Windows, even when someone defends the Mac from its detractors. I should have known better.

Why is it that 'Mac people' are so happy with their Macs, to the point of making 'Windows people' so displeased? You should've known better, eh? Why? Because us 'Mac people' are happy with our equipment and our operating system? Because we're happy with our relatively virus-free computing experience? Because we haven't had to wait forever for Windows to copy OSX some more and call it 'Vista' and then delay it again and again? Nope. We like our Macs because they actually do work well, with relatively no problems or inconveniences, and they are much more user-friendly than the average PC. And before you ask, I was using the Apple IIc and Apple IIe in high school, and in college I used a Mac LCII, then upgraded to a PowerPC 603e, then a blue dalmatian iMac, and now I'm using a G5 tower and a G4 Powerbook. The Powerbook sits on my desk next to a clunky PC at work, and yeah, the IT guys resent the fact that I am the only Mac in the building, and admit it they prefer PCs because Macs have fewer problems and an IT department is not very necessary with Macs. Every time I hear about how 'Mac people' are so smug about their computers, I can't help but think the person complaining about it would be pretty smug, too, if they were enjoying their computer as much as we do. Yeah, it's a generalization, but so is the whole silly 'Mac people' statement. Look, the fact is that Mac is a better computing experience. It is reliable, it is easier, and it is far less prone to problems than the typical Windows environment. Sure, you will argue these points, and I will do the same until Mal shuts this thread down. The fact remains that Office for Mac is pretty spiffy, Macs thrive on a network, Macs communicate well with PCs, and people who decry Macs usually have their facts misplaced. Yeah, the Mac people will seize any opportunity to hail our beloved computers, usually to defend the Mac from speculative, fact-free Windows bias. Mac users have plenty of software, and no, we don't have every business application out there, but neither do most of the people using Windows on their personal computers. And as for Apple being so 'proprietary,' that would be a primary reason as to why Mac users don't have as many issues with compatibility as PC users do. Everything inside a Mac tends to be made by Apple, not by some third-party manufacturer with lax quality control standards and too many other third party manufacturers with the same quality issues to contend with, making everything more haphazard inside a PC. In a Mac, everything that is supposed to work works. Period. This claim is not supported by Windows. The only thing Windows really has going for it is strength in numbers, and might doesn't always make right. In fact, that plurality is one of the reasons PCs suffer from viruses, worms, spyware, and all that other stuff that Mac users, in their insignificant numbers, blissfully ignore.

Short answer: buy a Mac. That's my completely biased and informed opinion.

hagen

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Sigh - still, "Mac people" get very beligerent when you DISAGREE than Mac computing is better.

My company has 6000 Mac and 40,000 PCs - for this we have 37 Mac technicians and 11 PC technicians. The Macs just dont work as well.

so, yes, I guess IT is all about job security, and the fact that the vast majority of our Mac users also have a PC for general work is because IT hates macs because they never break. sorry, more like never work. Again, Macs are phenomonal at graphic design and movie editing and things of that ilk, but horrendous for eveything else.

 

[Coasterguy]

actually, if they are in a Mac only network, you are right, but try connecting them to Unix, Mainframe or NT based networks and see what happens when. also try running network apps on them, you want examples? Ok, how about EVERYTHING - Mainframe applications do not work on Macs but work fine on PCs, Unix based applications such as SAP and Peoplesoft do not work on Macs, but work fine on PCs, even Linux based apps (which Mac OS10 is now based) do not work on Macs, but fine on PCs, and finally, Windows based applications do not work on Macs, at all, ever, but fine on PCs - however, I can run nearly every Mac based app on my PC - any PC can easily be modified to run these applications with simple DOS code that any first year programmer can write.

and there is a reason for this: Apple wont allow it, at all, ever. they are proprietary where as windows is not. Proprietary software, hardware and network interfacing.

That's not really a networking issue vs an application issue. All we have are Unix/Linux servers and Macs we have no networking problems. Nothing proprietary about Mac networking fully tcp/ip compliant.

The Mac/PC debate will go on forever but what it comes down to is what works best for you. We've always been Unix server based, no Windows servers. There are 4 of us that support around 500 users. 3 of us have Macs and the other has a Unix workstation.

 

[Tampa]

but then when I got my IBM PS1 in 1988, I never looked back

Ah those were the days my friend! I'm so thankful for my PS1 for saving me from the Tandy 1000.

 

[hagen]

Sigh - still, "Mac people" get very beligerent when you DISAGREE than Mac computing is better.

My company has 6000 Mac and 40,000 PCs - for this we have 37 Mac technicians and 11 PC technicians. The Macs just dont work as well.

so, yes, I guess IT is all about job security, and the fact that the vast majority of our Mac users also have a PC for general work is because IT hates macs because they never break. sorry, more like never work. Again, Macs are phenomonal at graphic design and movie editing and things of that ilk, but horrendous for eveything else.

Yeah, we love to hear how Macs are inferior. Your ratio of computers to IT sounds bad, sure, but it might be your IT department, not the computers. Does this support PC superiority? Not a bit. My Macs have all worked, always, with no IT department. My experience is not an isolated incident, either.

Here's the way I see it: PC users and Mac users, who are very compatible with each other, tend to get cheesed off at each other when it comes to discussing their computers. It is obvious that I am not going to convince you, and I assure you that your arguments have swayed me not an iota, but I don't see how that should matter in the long run... you've always seemed like a pleasant person on Dis. It is just a constant irritant to me that PC users get haughty (not just you) about Macs and go out of their way to quote figures and program requirements to support their argument as if they are trying to recruit people to their platform, when they know that we Mac users are going to do the exact same thing if we get riled up. I love my Mac, I have loved all of my Macs, I use them nearly exclusively at work, I won't buy a PC, and I won't go gently into that beige night, sir.

hagen

 

[mtlhddoc2]

That's not really a networking issue vs an application issue. All we have are Unix/Linux servers and Macs we have no networking problems. Nothing proprietary about Mac networking fully tcp/ip compliant.

if you have all Macs, never a problem. Our Mac network (when we had one) worked fine as long as you did not try to connect with other networks... but after years and years of begging Netware and apple to find some kind of middle ground, we gave up and removed both the Appletalk and Netware base and switched to NT base. We can get the Macs to connect to the NT network... most of the time. but we cannot get them to run network applications like SAP, Heat, Mainframe, LINoS and others.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Yeah, we love to hear how Macs are inferior. Your ratio of computers to IT sounds bad, sure, but it might be your IT department, not the computers. Does this support PC superiority? Not a bit. My Macs have all worked, always, with no IT department. My experience is not an isolated incident, either.

Here's the way I see it: PC users and Mac users, who are very compatible with each other, tend to get cheesed off at each other when it comes to discussing their computers. It is obvious that I am not going to convince you, and I assure you that your arguments have swayed me not an iota, but I don't see how that should matter in the long run... you've always seemed like a pleasant person on Dis. It is just a constant irritant to me that PC users get haughty (not just you) about Macs and go out of their way to quote figures and program requirements to support their argument as if they are trying to recruit people to their platform, when they know that we Mac users are going to do the exact same thing if we get riled up. I love my Mac, I have loved all of my Macs, I use them nearly exclusively at work, I won't buy a PC, and I won't go gently into that beige night, sir.

hagen

actually, the ratio is the way it is because of the network compaibility. We have too many appliocation which just will not work on Macs, at all, ever. And it is cheaper to give each Mac user a second computer, a PC than to install the Windows emulator.

And you have me labeled as a "PC guy" - you couldnt be more wrong.... I am a realist. I am a Mac and Windows and Linux tech, and also an Exchange and NT and Netware network administrator. I see every facet of computing, not just one side (Mac or PC) - on my desk I have 5 computers, a Mac, a PC, a Linux box and 2 network servers. I am a certified Mac tech as well as an MCT, I never went to college but I teach 3 classes at a local college. One is a Mac class. I am 100% self taught and throughout the years have owned nearly every type of computer. I started on the trash80, TS1000, VIC20, C64 and 128, Amiga, Apple IIc and e, IBM PS1 and 2, clones, Macintoshyou name it, I have had it. I am a "computer guy" not a Mac or PC guy.

 

[Coasterguy]

if you have all Macs, never a problem. Our Mac network (when we had one) worked fine as long as you did not try to connect with other networks... but after years and years of begging Netware and apple to find some kind of middle ground, we gave up and removed both the Appletalk and Netware base and switched to NT base. We can get the Macs to connect to the NT network... most of the time. but we cannot get them to run network applications like SAP, Heat, Mainframe, LINoS and others.

You're right, proprietary protocols will not work with each other. Macs haven't used Appletalk for a while now. Since they are Unix based they use tcp/ip and fully intergrate with our Unix servers. Those apps don't run on Macs, that's not a network issue.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

they arent apps, they are networks, and except for Mainframe which is an IBM base, they all run on UNIX - the "apps" are just terminal windows.

 

[qruthie]

I bought my first Mac when I was working for a large computer company. I used their brand of computers at work and at home. No sense in buying a computer if the company will lend you one. When it came time to buy a computer for personal use I thought long and hard and decided on a Mac. Why? Because I worked on computer problems all day and I didn't want to have to spend my nights doing system administration tasks.

The Mac worked great. It had the applications I needed. The only thing I hated about it was when a process would hang or crash, the entire operating system did the same. I was used to a much more advanced operating system. Mac OS X took care of most of the problems.

We bought a PC a few years after that, mainly so my son could play Roller Coaster Tycoon. Hey, I have my priorities! That computer wasn't connected to any sort of network or the internet. It still had tons of problems. I spent more hours doing system administration tasks on that thing. The two most frustrating things for me were the crappy help function and the disk defragmenter that crashed every time we tried to use it. Things only got worse when we started using it online. Again, I was used to a much more advanced operating system.

Meanwhile, I bought another Mac for my use. I still have it. The hard drive was failing so I put everything onto a partitioned external hard drive. The only other problems I had were the ethernet port and entire logic board getting fried due to a lightning strike and I ruined a keyboard when I dumped a soda in it. The lightning strike was amazingly covered by the warranty (only because there were no visible signs of scorching on the card) and the keyboard mostly worked after I dumped the soda out of it and used a blow dryer. If Apple had had the foresight to put drain holes/vents in the bottom of the keyboard, I probably would still be using it today.

The Mac still does everything I need it to do but slowly. I still use it as my main computer but am now using a laptop for playing VMK. Yes, I do have my priorities! I don't see myself fully migrating to the PC in the near future nor do I see myself upgrading the Mac in the near future.

I guess my point is, in my experience, both systems have their strengths and weaknesses depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

PS - Speaking of old computers, I did use a Commodore 64 and a Trash 80 but the oldest most ancient computer I used was a PDP-8 when I was in college. To program that machine, you toggled switches to match the binary code and hand loaded and executed each instruction. The code was always expressed in hex but the switches were grouped together for octal. I never figured out why. To save your program, you sent it as output to a teletype machine which punched holes in paper tape. The most basic computer I ever programmed was a 6502 chip on a breadboard and the program was created by adding a bunch of wires and connecting them properly to AND OR NOR and NAND gates.

 

[Laurabearz]

PS - Speaking of old computers, I did use a Commodore 64 and a Trash 80 but the oldest most ancient computer I used was a PDP-8 when I was in college. To program that machine, you toggled switches to match the binary code and hand loaded and executed each instruction. The code was always expressed in hex but the switches were grouped together for octal. I never figured out why. To save your program, you sent it as output to a teletype machine which punched holes in paper tape. The most basic computer I ever programmed was a 6502 chip on a breadboard and the program was created by adding a bunch of wires and connecting them properly to AND OR NOR and NAND gates.

Wow your OLD!

 

[Coasterguy]

but we cannot get them to run network applications like SAP, Heat, Mainframe, LINoS and others.

they arent apps, they are networks, and except for Mainframe which is an IBM base, they all run on UNIX - the "apps" are just terminal windows.[\QUOTE]

I don't know if this is the LINos you're talking about, but this only runs on Windows.
LINos

Is this the Heat you are talking about?
Heat

Doesn't look like they support Macs, but that has nothing to do with network compatablilty.

 

[ElectricLime]

Apple ... are proprietary where as windows is not. Proprietary software, hardware and network interfacing.

Right there you just showed me that you don't know what you're talking about!

Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD, an open-source operating system which itself is based on Unix which has been around for about four decades now. In fact, the core of Mac OS X is freely downloadable as an open source project named "Darwin"; you can edit it and compile it yourself. Macs use a wide range of standards such as PCI, PCI-E, Ethernet, 802.11[bg] wireless, Bluetooth, DVI, USB, FireWire, etc. etc. (Edit: and I totally forgot about Samba file sharing, Unicode, Java, and Bonjour!)

Windows is extremely proprietary. Microsoft has even gotten in trouble in the past for giving its own programmers access to things in Windows that it won't let outside developers have access to.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Right there you just showed me that you don't know what you're talking about!

Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD, an open-source operating system which itself is based on Unix which has been around for about four decades now. In fact, the core of Mac OS X is freely downloadable as an open source project named "Darwin"; you can edit it and compile it yourself. Macs use a wide range of standards such as PCI, PCI-E, Ethernet, 802.11[bg] wireless, Bluetooth, DVI, USB, FireWire, etc. etc.

Windows is extremely proprietary. Microsoft has even gotten in trouble in the past for giving its own programmers access to things in Windows that it won't let outside developers have access to.

So incorrect, I could not even begin to respond. Come take my class and find out 10,000 things you think you know about Macs.

 

[ElectricLime]

Please let me know, specifically what part of what I said do you believe to be incorrect? I can back up everything I've said with references.