Puppy - from 'breeder' or regular home?

Re: allergy/ear infections. My lab got ear infections a lot until we switched her to a corn free diet (Wellness Core). She hasn't had one since (3 years). I didn't realize once Iams sold to P&G they really lowered the standards. Iams Co. was near our town and they had a good reputation, now their food is a 1 star out of 5.
 
Just because they treated their dogs like they should be treated doesn't mean there are reputable breeder. Most puppy mill dogs have AKC papers AKC doesn't mean a thing this days. As you stated they are doing for money this dogs have not been genetically tested.
OP- these are the kind of breeders you want to stay away from. Reputable breeders will barely even break even because of the cost that comes with all the testing that should be preform.




:confused3

Reputable breeders want to make the breed better and would not mix breeds in order to get a designer dog which is actually what used to be considered a mutt which there is nothing wrong with, but you don't pay big bucks for them either. They usually have one breed of dog, not many. I would run from that kind of breeder.
 
Re: allergies

My parent's cat has had HORRIBLE allergies... he just chews himself raw & has scabs all over. He's been to the vet constantly, has tried all kinds of different food combinations, been on steroids, etc and nothing ever helped.

Finally they off-handedly said, "man, it's like the cat's allergic to water!" But that made them actually think that maybe it WAS the water (they have well water), lol. They tried some distilled water and VOILA!!! All the allergies have been gone and he acts like he feels SO much better.

Cats and dogs are very different, I know... just thought it might be another thing to try. :goodvibes

OMG, I will die if you are right but the vet kept saying asking what we did differently or got new around the time the allergies cropped up. I wracked my brain taking anything new I could think of out of the house including a new dog bed. I though I hit everything new but you just made me realize I started filtering the dogs water around that time. I wonder if it is not the charcoal filter in the pitcher. I am going to stop using the filtered water tomorrow and see if that doesn't make a difference. :thumbsup2

I am bookmarking all the links anyone is giving and taking all advice in. Iwill try the different suggestions little by little till we hopefully find something. Hopefully it is as simple as the filtered water.

Thank you for all the suggestions and for sharing experiences. I should have posted this on the dis a year ago.

Ang
 
Reputable breeders want to make the breed better and would not mix breeds in order to get a designer dog which is actually what used to be considered a mutt which there is nothing wrong with, but you don't pay big bucks for them either. They usually have one breed of dog, not many. I would run from that kind of breeder.

Thats what I said to OP not to go to this kind of breeder (I am not sure if you meant to quote me). Reputable breeders don't do it for money. I always joke and say all my dogs are designer dogs ;).

Robinb,
Thanks for the suggestion on the elimination diet. I will look into doing it that way. I was under the impression that was kind of what I was doing with the grain free foods and changing the protien and carb sources if they don't work but I am willing to try whatever. Thanks so much for the product suggestion too. I will order some just incase the Gold Bond stops working or maybe try both together. As long as I keep the powder on her she doesn't chew and lick them but I can tell when it wears off. Having little dogs that have little poops no I can't imagine having a big dog pooping white rice and cottage cheese. lol

Marie,
My shih tzu with the bad hair is no longer alive. The one I have now has the ear infection and allergies and her hair has thinned but the hair itself other than thinning is still healthy. She is 9 1/2 years old too. The ear infections just started and I am wondering if it was the effect of using the food the vet suggested that did have grain in it 2 months ago and for several moths before. Hopefully the new food and antibiotic and animax in the ears will help it go away. Right now my vet wants me to wait a bit longer with the current food.

As for a specialist the reason my vet has not suggested one is because I live in the middle of nowhere and I am sure the closest would be several hours to any kind of special vet. I have also taken her to three different vets in the area. She has been treated for bacteria and fungus and has no parasites. It has been suggested by 2 of the vets that her allergies are more than likely due to grass. Since we are trying to sell our house we don't want to put in a cement area for them till we move. Even wiping her feet after going out each time didn't help and only made her infection on her paws worse.

I am going to ask about the allergy testing at our next visit. I am sure they can do that at our local vet. Thanks for the suggestions and for sharing.

One thing I notice from your last post the symptoms to me sounds more like canine atopy ( inhaled allergens) so I am not sure if the food would help or make it stop. Keep in mind that grains is the most common allergen for dogs but it is not always the case. Or maybe it is both types of allergies. Have you change you laundry detergent that you wash the bed or were he/she lays, a need couch, bought a new bed? Booties help my friends dog (she is allergic to grass, dust mites and a bunch of other things). It is weird that she develop allergies so late in life they usually appear around the age of 2. Allergy tests can be done by the vet and send out to a lab (that is how our vet did it). One is done by blood other just like they test on humans. The blood one can be done by any vet to be send to a lab and it is not as accurate as the other one.
We are 3 hours away from the dermatologist but if it solves the problem might be worth the drive. Good luck I hope you find something to make it better.
 

I love how you're taking your time, asking questions and doing research. :thumbsup2 A pet is not something that should be bought on impulse. People wait 9 months for a baby, a pet that will be in your life for the next 12-15 or more years shouldn't be something you just decide and do one day.

I've worked in a very busy vet clinic for over 15 years, I have helped run a pet rescue, I have worked very closely with our local humane society as well as other rescue groups. I will tell you right now I know of a rescue that has 9 pug mixed puppies in both fawn and black that need homes. They are not impossible to find. They look almost all pug but we can't be 100% sure. They are 10 weeks old. They were in the room to be euthanized when the rescue group just couldn't take losing 9 puppies simply because they had ringworm and they pulled them out of the shelter. That's 9 pug puppies that would have been dead if they'd been brought in just a day earlier. None of these puppies have homes and it will take a lot of work to find ones for them. Just as an FYI the rescue that has these puppies will adopt to a home with small children. My cousin just adopted two small mixed breed puppies from them and they have 4 girls all under the age of 6.

A few observations from my first hand experience in the dog breeding/rescue/veterinary world.

Purebred does not mean more health problems. It also doesn't mean less health problems. If you decide that a purebred dog is what is best for your family do your research and then do some more. Do not buy a dog from a breeder where you cannot see where the puppies were born and raised and at least personally see and meet at least one of the parents. Do not take a new puppy home before 8 weeks of age. Yes most puppies are weaned by 6 weeks but those next 2 weeks a puppy learns important dog things. Do not buy a puppy from a breeder that has not taken the pup to the vet, had it dewormed and vaccinated at least once. Learn every single known genetic health issue associated with your chosen breed. Learn what ones should be screened and tested for in the parents and at least 3 generations before that. If the breeder cannot produce this information, run do not walk away from them. The main ones with pugs are luxating patella (knee issues), elongated soft pallets and eye issues. These are genetic and should be avoided in breeding. Also learn the characteristics of the breed. Pugs are not low activity dogs. They are high energy but have several health considerations in regards to their exercise. They cannot tolerate extreme temperatures in either direction, long runs or walks. They can be good family pets but they can be a bit stubborn in their training and often times can be difficult to housebreak. A good breeder will not make money. They will have firsthand knowledge of their dog's linage, will have spent the money for genetic testing of the parents and will always agree to take the dog back if it doesn't work out. Don't base too much on a health guarantee. Often the rules of such a promise are not followed through and the only real option you have is to return the "defective" product you bought from them in exchange for a new improved product.

I have held too many furry babies as life left them to feel right about not trying to explain to you why you should adopt a dog vs. buying one. For your situation you are just looking for a family member. Do don't seem to want to show your dog, improve the breed, nor do you seem like you're stuck to the idea that a pure bred dog is the only kind of that that will make you happy. You sound like a reasonable, wonderful home for a dog that so desperately needs you. I'll try to keep this brief to hold your interest, but there's so many reasons it's going to be difficult.

It's just not true that you can't find a pure bred dog small dog in a shelter. I myself adopted a french bulldog over 2 years ago after only 30 days of looking. I found her 4 hours from my home sitting in a city ran shelter and paid an astounding $60 for a "rare" small breed, pure bred dog that was spayed, fully vaccinated, vet checked and temperament tested.

It's not true that all rescues and shelters won't adopt small dogs to a home with a small child. I am asked all of the time if the dog is good with kids, and I usually respond with is your kid good with dogs? It's a two way street. Even some rescue groups that say no adoptions to homes with a small child, will not turn down a home that has taken the time to prove their child knows how to behave around a pet. A good rule of thumb is any dog and child left unsupervised is a disaster waiting to happen. If you let the rescue know you are aware of this and have taken steps by teaching your child how to be calm and respectful of this new pet sometimes they will bend this "rule." Sometimes they won't, but there's always another rescue or shelter out there that will. I fully admit some rescues have gone too far in screening homes. What happens is they tend to chase people right into the breeders hands. I understand why they may have come to take this stance, but I will never agree with it. The shelter we adopted our frenchie from, had our dog listed as not adoptable to homes with small children. DD was 4 and after talking with them at length they had no issues about sending this dog home with us and our young child.

When you adopt from a shelter or rescue you are not only saving one life but two. Not only is the pet you take home given another chance, but you have also freed up that space to give another pet a chance at a new life. 6-8 million pets are euthanized in shelters every year. A large percentage of these are pure bred dogs, and yet another good number are small dogs. If you do your research, ask questions and keep looking at sites such as petfinder and calling your local shelters you will find the dog for you. If you are willing to travel a small bit of distance your chances improve greatly.

I'll let you in on a little secret about some of the rescue groups. Just because one person in that rescue says no, doesn't mean another one won't have a different answer. Each person involved has their own opinions and since it's volunteer there aren't a real set of rules. If you feel a certain dog is right for your family, call back and try to reach another member of that rescue. This trick doesn't always work, but it does sometimes. If it doesn't, then that just means your dog is still out there.

To be honest if you are just looking for a family member to love for many years I cannot think of a single reason why you should buy from any breeder. On the other hand I can think of 6-8 million reasons why you should adopt.
 
OMG, I will die if you are right but the vet kept saying asking what we did differently or got new around the time the allergies cropped up. I wracked my brain taking anything new I could think of out of the house including a new dog bed. I though I hit everything new but you just made me realize I started filtering the dogs water around that time. I wonder if it is not the charcoal filter in the pitcher. I am going to stop using the filtered water tomorrow and see if that doesn't make a difference. :thumbsup2

I am bookmarking all the links anyone is giving and taking all advice in. Iwill try the different suggestions little by little till we hopefully find something. Hopefully it is as simple as the filtered water.

Thank you for all the suggestions and for sharing experiences. I should have posted this on the dis a year ago.

Ang

Just a suggestion. We allergy tested our dog. It did cost $200 for the test but we did it as soon as allergy symptoms happened. Changing diets can cause GI upset, and trying several home remedies does add up over time. We shelled out the initial $200, and found out exactly what the dog was allergic to. We opted to just change her to a diet that we knew did not contain any food she was allergic to and tried to limit exposure to other allergens. When we adopted her we were told she'd have to have both ear canals removed due to the damage they'd sustained to her allergies being out of control fro 2 years. Since that time, aside from spending about $2 more a month on a different food we have not had to spend another dollar trying to figure her allergies out. Plus she still has both of her adorable little ears. :goodvibes
 
OT on the allergies -

We had a boxer who for many years had the horrible itchy feet and "dirty ears" that would lead every couple of months to either a fungus overgrowth or an infection. We tried food challenge diets for a long time and finally got broad spectrum allergy testing. It turned out she was not allergic to any foods, but WAS allergic to a particular variety of grass that is mixed into EVERY lawn around here, and dust mites.

Since it was impossible to eliminate those items completely from her/our environment, we put her on a combo antihistimine/steroid which she was on for years through the end of her life (Temeril P).

I know many people are not crazy about steroids, but for her, it was the only thing that worked. They checked her blood levels and organ function often, and she never had bad effects. She got a little stocky at around 10yo, but many dogs do!

Good luck to the poster with allergies - it's so frustrating and heartbreaking to go through the ID process when everything you keep trying doesn't work!

Jane
 
If I were to get a puppy from a shelter/rescue, what are the disadvantages? I mean - if the puppy were a puppy mill survivor, are there any specific issues that you think I should be made aware of? I know that I wouldn't know the puppy's health background.
 
If I were to get a puppy from a shelter/rescue, what are the disadvantages? I mean - if the puppy were a puppy mill survivor, are there any specific issues that you think I should be made aware of? I know that I wouldn't know the puppy's health background.
For puppies, the main concern would be that they would be poorly bred. The puppy mills don't care about making the breed better and breed whatever AKC ***** to whatever AKC dog they have on hand to get puppies. The puppies could be perfectly OK, or they could have a laundry list of genetic/temperment problems which are very expensive to treat. In addition, you may have some socialization problems if the pups were taken away from their mom too soon, or not handled by humans soon enough.
 
If I were to get a puppy from a shelter/rescue, what are the disadvantages? I mean - if the puppy were a puppy mill survivor, are there any specific issues that you think I should be made aware of? I know that I wouldn't know the puppy's health background.

If you are getting a rescued purebred you'll know there's a chance of any and all known genetic problems with that breed. As far as temperament the rescue should have evaluated the dog prior to you being matched with it. While any dog can develop odd personality traits over time, I would find it strange for serious ones to not be picked up on by the rescue. A lot of people will tell you to pick a dog up and flip it on its back. If it struggles or gets aggressive it's not a submissive dog and thus will be hard to train. This is not true. You can't just go around picking up dogs that are strange to you and flip them on their back and expect them to like it. I know I wouldn't. :laughing: The most important thing when adopting a rescued dog don't give it human feelings and emotions. This is often what causes the issues with behavior in rescued pets. The owner feels sorry for them and everything the dog does the human decides it's due to severe abuse and neglect. It might be but if you never tell the dog no, or teach it that certain behaviors aren't allowed it will never learn. I once had a maltese lock onto my pinky finger while helping with an exam. The owner's reaction? The grab and pull on the dog, while it's still attached to my finger, yelling at me to be careful because Muffy was abused in utero. :confused3 This belief led to a lifetime of behavioral problems for the dog, and a few days of pain for my finger.

When adopting a rescue dog ask if it's been seen by a vet. Talk to the vet about possible health problems. No dog is promised to be free of these. Depending on the age of the dog you're adopting many genetic issues would already be obvious. The more you educate yourself the better chance you'll make a great choice in family pet. The biggest disadvantage I see is just not knowing the full health history. There does tend to be a higher chance of health issues with dogs in rescue, especially those from a puppy mill. If you opt for an older dog from a puppy mill you are often looking at a lot of work in socializing the dog. If you have a busy household an adult dog from a puppy mill might not be the best choice as these dogs are not used to actual homes, just cages.
 
If I were to get a puppy from a shelter/rescue, what are the disadvantages? I mean - if the puppy were a puppy mill survivor, are there any specific issues that you think I should be made aware of? I know that I wouldn't know the puppy's health background.

You won't know the health background and that will be the only difference. I have a puppy mill pomeranian. We got him as a puppy he is a wonderful dog. He will turn 5 in a few months and so far we know he has a problem in his back knee but is not bothering so the vet said if one day it does he will need surgery but until then there is nothing to do. He also said he might never need surgery if it never bother him. I should add we socialize him very well he went everywhere with us (and I mean everywhere, planes, long trips, you name he was with us). Every body loves him most people say he doesn't act a small dog :rotfl:. He loves the water and I mean he will choke trying to get in the water even if it is a little puddle, he loves kids even though we don't have any, once MIL was petsitting he got out and went to the elementary school because he saw the kids were out playing outside. He loves to fetch and play with the bigger dog and the cats. He is really a great dog all together. Now as you can see most of the traits my pom has are not from the breed like loving water but he was brought up with a lab so he just went along with what the other dog did. Puppies are easy to mold to the kind of dog you want them to be. Of course they do have their own personalities that son't change but that can be seen since they are very little.

We have a small rescue and I have 4 other dog (our dogs) all rescues or from the shelter. They are all amazing in their own way.
Our next dog is a lab mix and we rescue him when he was 4 months old. He was going to be put down because he was cover in ticks and our shelter doesn't clean them up or anything :mad:. We took him in after cleaning him up and a vet visit we learn he has a tick spread disease. He is 4 now and it has not bother him, it doesn't mean it never will but it could. Last year he develop allergies not sure if it is a long term thing since we had a big fire close to our house and the smoke and ashes seem to bother our other dog too. So we will see this spring if it is a long term problem. Of course being part lab allergies are common. Again he is a wonderful dog never had issues.
To make it short our other 3 dogs are all great never had any temperament issues with any of the dogs we have rescue including the once that have been place in other homes. This includes the 4 that are mine, 3 fosters and 3 that we rescue and place our selfs. One was less than 10 lb and really wonderful dog. Usually with dogs from the shelter your vet bills mainly come from problems that humans cause (like heart worm, parasites, tick spread disease, etc). Rescues usually take care of those problems and you get a healthy dog.
Our oldest mutt is about 8 and our younger is 4 and no one of them have gone to the vet for genetic issues (except maybe the allergies if they come back). They have gone to the vet for things that I thought it might be wrong (nose bleeds, a lump, black widow bite, food sensitivity, etc) but at the end all testing came back normal and they are healthy as they can be.
Most temperament issues in shelter/rescue dogs usually come from being abuse not as a trait of the dog and it is usually easy to tell right away. Puppies are easier to work with since the chances of being abused in their short life are less, also some are born in in the shelter or rescue, and there are not long term habits to break. You can make sure the puppy was socialize correctly since you will have him/her young. Of course mix breeds will be less likely to have genetic problems.


Now you have to realize that just because you get a dog has a health screening doesn't mean you won't have extra vet bills. Accidents happen so it won't guarantee you cheaper vet bills.

The black and white dog is the only of our dogs that we got as an adult and he is wonderful. Our friends baby learn how to walk on the dog he is as gentle as he can be. He knew when the kid was holding on to him and will walk really slowly. When he will fall he will lower his head to have the kid grab him to help him stand up.

Here are our babies.
DSC_0106.jpg
 
I fully admit some rescues have gone too far in screening homes. What happens is they tend to chase people right into the breeders hands. I understand why they may have come to take this stance, but I will never agree with it.

I felt this way when we adopted our cat. We didn't have any other pets at the time and they really wanted to talk to a vet and they wouldn't let us take the cat. I was very calm there and I can understand that they want to make sure the animal will be taken care of and not returned, but when I got home I was really upset. All sorts of horrible people have animals. I'm a responsible and decent person. I own my home and am capable of taking care of 3 children, but I'm not worthy to adopt a freaking cat? :sad2:

Over the summer we were thinking of adopting another dog. We decided to wait a bit longer until we found a dog that we really love and would be the perfect fit for our family. We did wind up hosting an exchange student. We were joking because it seemed like it was much easier to demonstrate that we were capable of taking care of someone elses 15yo child for the next year than most of the screening processes and rules for the shelters/rescues we were looking at. :rolleyes:

If you opt for an older dog from a puppy mill you are often looking at a lot of work in socializing the dog. If you have a busy household an adult dog from a puppy mill might not be the best choice as these dogs are not used to actual homes, just cages.

This is definitely something to consider and why we may choose to get a puppy when we're ready for another dog. We do not know exactly where our dog came from, but I believe she had never lived in a home before. (She was 7.5mos when we adopted her.) She was part of a group of about 50 dogs that was transported from KY to NY. We knew she was very shy/scared when we met her, but we partially attributed that to the fact that she had just arrived the day before. She had been in foster home for 2 weeks prior to that, but from reading the report it seemed like even there she had been kept outside with other dogs.

She is a wonderful pet and very good with my children, but we continue to work on socializing her. She is definitely not a "friendly" dog to anyone else. It is fine for our family and DH & I are willing to work with her, but she likely would have been returned if she had been adopted by a a different family with lots of children and friends around or neglected/abused if she had been adopted by someone less patient.
 
Please go to the Pug Dog Club of America website if you haven't already http://www.pugs.org/ They have a list of rescue organizations they work with, as well as a breeder referal list if you decide to go that route. There are good reasons for purchasing a puppy from a good breeder and for adopting one from rescue. As a breeder I have sent people to rescue if I felt it would be better for their situation. I also know that our rescue group will tell some people that they should purchase a puppy and a rescue is not appropriate for their situation. You need to talk to both breeders and the rescue groups to make your decision and make sure you are comfortable with the decision you make. Rescuing a dog is a wonderful thing, but it is not the right situation for every person it is your choice and you will have to live with that decision for many years. I recommended Detroit Kennel Club's show to you earlier. Since you are in Kalamazoo, there is also the Chicago International show February 25 and 26 in downtown Chicago that is a benched show like Detroits, except that they also have a section for rescue groups.
 
One thing that I use for ear infections is the old brown Listerine, can't be generic, or a mint flavor. I just squirt some in the ear and squish it around and dry as much as I can with a cotton ball or q-tip. I do this daily when there is an infection and then with a dog that has repeated infections, I keep it up about once a week and it usually solves the problem (as long as it is not an allergy)
 
The best dog i ever had was a "pound Puppy" Chester was a yellow lab Austrelin cattle dog mix. He lived to the ripe old age of 16 which is old for a big dog. I miss him every day. But he was the best dog i have ever had. My point is there are a ton of awsome "pound puppys" out there for people to find i am going to rescue a "pound kitty" here soon. go get a dog from a shelter you wont rereit it.:cool1:
 
Here are our babies.
DSC_0106.jpg

I just had to say how adorable! The one of yours on the far left almost looks exactly like my Rayne dog. She's in the pic of my rescue collection on the far right. Not a great pic to show how similar they are, but I thought you had my dog for a moment! :goodvibes

Sadly we lost the black and white one to cancer about 6 months ago and the full shepherd's health doesn't look promising. All are rescue dogs.

thDSC00912.jpg


This is my frenchie on her first night in our home. I think she's happy.

cheese.jpg
 
Just because they treated their dogs like they should be treated doesn't mean there are reputable breeder. Most puppy mill dogs have AKC papers AKC doesn't mean a thing this days. As you stated they are doing for money this dogs have not been genetically tested.
OP- these are the kind of breeders you want to stay away from. Reputable breeders will barely even break even because of the cost that comes with all the testing that should be preform.




:confused3

They've bred shepherds for 30+ years and yes they test for the hip condition known in German Shepherds - you don't know them, so how dare you judge them??

One of their female schauzer's just had 5 puppies, all died - she's now "retired from the puppy business" and will be a lap dog, she's sweet and my kids grandma's favorite. None of their females has more then one litter per year.

Who are you to state - "if they do it for the money ?this? dogs have not been genetically tested."

One of the shepherds is a search and rescue dog.

Confused? I was replying to the "Run if they are will to negotiate price." comment.
 
To be honest if you are just looking for a family member to love for many years I cannot think of a single reason why you should buy from any breeder. On the other hand I can think of 6-8 million reasons why you should adopt.

:thumbsup2
 
This makes me sick to my stomach!!

That's too bad...

:scared1:
Run, don't walk, from the type of "breeder" mentioned above. One more thing to add to the list: Most reputable breeders DO NOT plan to have litters ready to go home around Christmas. They know this is a terrible time of year to add a new puppy to a family with busy schedules, vacations, travel, etc.

They didn't force anybody to buy a puppy ~ so everybody has a busy C-mas schedule?? A lady from OR bought 2, a couple from Jackson WY bought one - they live in N UT ~ they had high quality puppies available that people were willing to travel for. I would never want a puppy in the winter time - training them to do their business when it's cold out, that's mean... but I'm aware not everyone feels the same as me.

Reputable breeders want to make the breed better and would not mix breeds in order to get a designer dog which is actually what used to be considered a mutt which there is nothing wrong with, but you don't pay big bucks for them either. They usually have one breed of dog, not many. I would run from that kind of breeder.

Some people do *pay big bucks* are they held down and forced to?? No, they choose to. 3 is many?? They're mixing because it's what people want - a Yorkie's too teeny for small kids, a schnorkie is similar just a bit bigger/sturdier. But lucky for you - you don't have to buy one, it's a choice.

Our dog ~ a male cocker spaniel who was a pound puppy pluto:
 
I just had to say how adorable! The one of yours on the far left almost looks exactly like my Rayne dog. She's in the pic of my rescue collection on the far right. Not a great pic to show how similar they are, but I thought you had my dog for a moment! :goodvibes

Sadly we lost the black and white one to cancer about 6 months ago and the full shepherd's health doesn't look promising. All are rescue dogs.

thDSC00912.jpg


This is my frenchie on her first night in our home. I think she's happy.

cheese.jpg

So sorry for your loss. They do look similar. Here is the funny thing him and the brown and black dog next to him are brother and sister! I love your picture mine would have jump out of the car LOL.
 














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