Puppy - from 'breeder' or regular home?

[alex9179]

We have never purchased a dog from a breeder, responsible or backyard. Our dogs were adopted from 1) smalll breed mix from accidental pregnancy 2) mix breed puppy from shelter and 3) 3yr old pure bred (not wellbred) from shelter.

Our best dog is the pure bred German Shepherd from the city pound. She is loyal to the entire family and is a second mother to our kids. She may bark at people coming up to the house, but she's a doll when you step through the door...except for one instance when I wasn't feeling very comfortable with a teen. She wouldn't stop barking. She is not breed standard, though. She is so nervous during storms that I can't go to the bathroom by myself. She is oversized. She freaks out over off-leash dogs. Not the calm, aloof GSD of standard.

Unless you spend many years as a breeder, looking for specific traits that you desire to be passed on, you will never have a dog that is close to perfect without a lot of luck.

I recommend that you keep your options open and look into rescues, shelters and responsible breeders that have been doing it for a long time. The right dog is out there. Being a large dog person, I can't believe the right dog is a pug heeheeheehee sorry! Our small breed mutt was a terror with people and other dogs. Never again! But my prejudice won't influence your choice

 

[jacksmom]

We bought our Cocker Spaniel from a home breeder! She is AKC registered and is a great dog! We had a hard time finding many Cocker Spaniels in our area! We lost one at age 13 and really loved and missed her and wanted another! Our Vet says we have the greatest/sweetest Cocker Spaniels she knows! But we are dog spoilers! We love Cockers! They are the only dogs we want, though they can be high strung! I would be so sad and lonley without a dog!

 

[marie1203]

I can only tell you from experience of buying from a home and from a breeder. I would pay double and go with the breeder. A good breeder breeds out the medical problems. The home breeders doing it on the side usually are not really educated about problems that could crop up or what medical issues are in the lineage. My pro breeder dog didn't have issues till she was nine and got allergies. Her hair is even better and her health has been excellent till the last year and her allergies. I don't think a breeder can breed out allergies that can be caused by different products, grass etc.. The home breed dog has had constant problems since age 2. I don't think her breeders had any clue if there were health issues with the dogs they mated.

Actually allergies most likely than not are genetic. Hair usually comes from the type of food they eat. My mutts have amazing fur. Once I had to take them to a vet while we were on vacations because she has an ear infection the vet couldn't not believe her fur she actually said it was the best looking fur she has ever seen. People ask me all the time what do I do.

 

[angwill]

Actually allergies most likely than not are genetic. Hair usually comes from the type of food they eat. My mutts have amazing fur. Once I had to take them to a vet while we were on vacations because she has an ear infection the vet couldn't not believe her fur she actually said it was the best looking fur she has ever seen. People ask me all the time what do I do.

I didn't now allergies are genetic my vet said they were not.

I also had two Shih tzu's on the same food and the one from the good breeder had wonderful hair that did not knot up and was nice and shiny compared to my home breed Shih tzu on the same food that had knotty dull hair. That is where I got the assumption from.

What do you use that helps your dogs fur? I was told safflower oil on their food is great for the fur but am always open to trying something new. Are ear infections hereditary too because my allergy dog has those too?

 

[roxysmum123]

More often than not, if a dog has puppies, it's planned.

Cannot disagree with this more. Just as often as it's planned, there are dogs that are owned by people who don't know to keep their dogs apart when the female is in heat, CAN'T keep a feisty male out of their yard, don't know not to go to the dog park while in heat, etc. etc. You say you looked into a sire for your female, I certainly hope you spent just as much time getting the appropriate screening tests for your female like her hips, eyes, thyroid?


OP, if it's a pug you're looking at I can't urge you any more strongly to go with a REPUTABLE, REGISTERED breeder. Pugs have such horrible health problems and they are never cheap to deal with. A close friend of mine spent over $4000 in veterinary bills alone last year for "pug problems" (eyes, legs, trachea). This is not completely abnormal as I teach out of a vet clinic and if you ask any of the professionals there if they'd ever get a pug their answer is "heck no too expensive to treat" to paraphrase. Be VERY selective when finding your pug. I will also probably be the only person to caution you against getting a pug from a breed specific rescue, especially if you haven't had a pug before. Dogs are placed in breed specific rescues for a reason, and more often than not with pugs (at least where I live) the reason is major medical or behavioural problems that the previous owners did not or could not deal with. Be incredibly selective if rescuing a pug, and make sure you ask the right questions beyond medical history (such as does this dog have separation issues... major pug problem).

Also, I'm not sure where you're located, but in Canada it is 100% ILLEGAL for a breeder to sell you a puppy for 600 with papers or 400 without. It is also illegal to sell a dog as "purebred" without papers, so check with your states laws.

 

[MichiganKris]

Many times, a dog that has food allergies also has ear infections. If you change the food, both the allergies and ear infections can go away, however, figuring out what the dog is allergic to in the food is not easy. It is also usually expensive because most of the time dogs are allergic to the grain in the foods. There are some sweet potato/fish based foods that are grain free that may help with the allergies.

Also, allergies are strongly familial, they are not considered genetic. This means that if your dad has hay fever, you have a stronger chance of getting hay fever. It is not genetic, where there is a recessive gene that matches up with both parents and causes the child to have allergies.

The genetics and recessive genes are the knowledge you are paying a good breeder for being able to identify. That doesn't mean that nothing will ever pop up that is genetic, but, the chance is smaller. You are also paying for the genetic testing that a good breeder will do on the sire and dam, as well as any testing that can be done on the puppies before they are sold. In my breed we do a DNA test on every puppy for a known hereditary disease, as well as an eye check on the puppies before they leave.

Someone also asked about negotiating the price. In most cases, I would say if a breeder will lower the price, you should stay away from them. As a breeder I may lower the price if I had kept a puppy as a show prospect, and at 6 months or a year of age, didn't feel it could be shown, then it may be less expensive.

 

[angwill]

Many times, a dog that has food allergies also has ear infections. If you change the food, both the allergies and ear infections can go away, however, figuring out what the dog is allergic to in the food is not easy. It is also usually expensive because most of the time dogs are allergic to the grain in the foods. There are some sweet potato/fish based foods that are grain free that may help with the allergies.

Also, allergies are strongly familial, they are not considered genetic. This means that if your dad has hay fever, you have a stronger chance of getting hay fever. It is not genetic, where there is a recessive gene that matches up with both parents and causes the child to have allergies.

The genetics and recessive genes are the knowledge you are paying a good breeder for being able to identify. That doesn't mean that nothing will ever pop up that is genetic, but, the chance is smaller. You are also paying for the genetic testing that a good breeder will do on the sire and dam, as well as any testing that can be done on the puppies before they are sold. In my breed we do a DNA test on every puppy for a known hereditary disease, as well as an eye check on the puppies before they leave.

Someone also asked about negotiating the price. In most cases, I would say if a breeder will lower the price, you should stay away from them. As a breeder I may lower the price if I had kept a puppy as a show prospect, and at 6 months or a year of age, didn't feel it could be shown, then it may be less expensive.

I have been dealing with the allergies for a exactly a year now. I started her on grain free salmon and sweet potato food then and it did not help the allergies after 6 months on it and I was told if it would help I would know in 3 months tops. I then tried another food with a different protien source that is good with allergies per our vet and groomer and that did nothing to help after several months. Right now we are back to grain free but lamb as the mean source. Been on that for 2 months and still not helping. We do not give anything other than her food except dried/baked sweet potato I make for her at home and carrots. Both I was told would be a good choice with allergies.

That said the ear infections just started last month but up till that time were not part of the allergies. She licks and chews her feet till they are raw. We have used so many suggested products both prescription and over he counter and finally at the vet last suggestion started using the green bottle of Gold Bond medicated body powder and finally the infection in her feet is staying away using that twice a day. She is still uncomfortably itchy when not on predisone and antibiotic of which I swear she has been on everything on the market over the last year. She also gets pus pockets that turn to scabs on her head and back down her spine and black dots that look like blackheads but there is nothing in the pore. I am honestly starting to think it may be autoimmune and something that is not going to be relieved and still have thought that I am keeping her alive for me and wondering if euthanizing her would be the most humane way to deal with her uncomfortable itching and pain. It is awful.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread but I have been grasping for suggestions on this situation for a year now.

 

[robinb]

I have been dealing with the allergies for a exactly a year now. I started her on grain free salmon and sweet potato food then and it did not help the allergies after 6 months on it and I was told if it would help I would know in 3 months tops. I then tried another food with a different protien source that is good with allergies per our vet and groomer and that did nothing to help after several months. Right now we are back to grain free but lamb as the mean source. Been on that for 2 months and still not helping. We do not give anything other than her food except dried/baked sweet potato I make for her at home and carrots. Both I was told would be a good choice with allergies.

You may have to do an elimination diet for your dog. My Japanese Akita had food allergies and would develop "hot spots" that she would chew. We started her on an elimination diet and were feeding her white rice, peas and cottage cheese for a while. Can you imagine the poop of a 100 lb dog on that kind of food?!? We fed her that until her food allergies calmed down and then we started adding different proteins in until she showed a reaction. She turned out to be allergic to beef so we went to a chicken diet. A friend has a Goldendoodle and the golden side of him came with a lot of allergies. She was cooking ground turkey for him for a while. He also chewed the heck out of his feet and she found something that stopped it. I PM'd her to ask what she did so I can pass it on to you.

 

[marie1203]

I didn't now allergies are genetic my vet said they were not.

I also had two Shih tzu's on the same food and the one from the good breeder had wonderful hair that did not knot up and was nice and shiny compared to my home breed Shih tzu on the same food that had knotty dull hair. That is where I got the assumption from.

What do you use that helps your dogs fur? I was told safflower oil on their food is great for the fur but am always open to trying something new. Are ear infections hereditary too because my allergy dog has those too?

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/caring-for-a-dog-that-has-food-allergies
I will think the problem with your Shih Tzu's hair is how tick and how curly the hairs are. I seen this in dogs often including my pomeranian. He has this kind of curly hair right underneath his ears that it always gets tangled vs the rest of his body that is just great. There are other problems that can cause dull hair such as parasites. Omega 3 are great for shiny hair, olive oil but the best is the quality of food you feed them mine are on Acana. Ear infections usually develop from allergies. Now there could be two different problems allergies or food sensitivity. One of my dogs is very sensitive to the food she eats. I also have dogs with allergies, we think they are allergic to ashes or smoke we had a huge fire last summer and the poor things couldn't stop itching. As soon as the fire was put down (which took a month they were fine ). My pomeranian has food allergies and it is not unusual for dog to even be allergic to beef or chicken. I had really bad luck with sweet potatoes and duck food my one dog had sensitivity issues with that. There are all vegetarian diets too. Right now I feed Acana Pacifica which is grain free and that seems to work.

I have been dealing with the allergies for a exactly a year now. I started her on grain free salmon and sweet potato food then and it did not help the allergies after 6 months on it and I was told if it would help I would know in 3 months tops. I then tried another food with a different protien source that is good with allergies per our vet and groomer and that did nothing to help after several months. Right now we are back to grain free but lamb as the mean source. Been on that for 2 months and still not helping. We do not give anything other than her food except dried/baked sweet potato I make for her at home and carrots. Both I was told would be a good choice with allergies.

That said the ear infections just started last month but up till that time were not part of the allergies. She licks and chews her feet till they are raw. We have used so many suggested products both prescription and over he counter and finally at the vet last suggestion started using the green bottle of Gold Bond medicated body powder and finally the infection in her feet is staying away using that twice a day. She is still uncomfortably itchy when not on predisone and antibiotic of which I swear she has been on everything on the market over the last year. She also gets pus pockets that turn to scabs on her head and back down her spine and black dots that look like blackheads but there is nothing in the pore. I am honestly starting to think it may be autoimmune and something that is not going to be relieved and still have thought that I am keeping her alive for me and wondering if euthanizing her would be the most humane way to deal with her uncomfortable itching and pain. It is awful.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread but I have been grasping for suggestions on this situation for a year now.

If it is this bad and your vet has not send you to and specialist I would be very concern and switch vets. One of my best friends has a dog with bad allergies she has been tested for what she is allergic to and since it has gotten worst she will be seeing a specialist next month. Good luck!

 

[DisneyMomma81]

Don't get me started on this....so many at home "breeders" are doing it for the $$$. PLEASE look at rescues or the shelter first. If you must have a dog with first rate papers to show not just a pet, then search for a reputable breeder. Both of my labs came from a lab rescue, one was 2 yrs old and the other was 10 months, both were fully house trained and did not chew a thing! The rescue people were also able to tell us how they got along with kids, cats and other dogs. Pups are adorable for a year and then they are dogs...but remember pups need constant attention and a lot of training!

My former in laws are what I would call AKC back yard breeders *it's her job. They have German Shepherds, Yorkies and mini Schnauzers - all are AKC, their sons have gotten in to French Bull Dogs *again AKC. My kids uncle had baby Frenchies to sell at the best time early-mid Dec. last year, 6 of 'em for $1500-$1800 each, they're family C-mas gifts because of that $$$ ~ 3 *barely used 4 wheelers and a trailer - everyone had a blast riding them/being pulled on sleds on grandpa & ma's 5 acres!

They have bred a male Yorkie & a female Schnauzer - Schnorkies! They're cute and often sell for more $$ than the AKC Schnauzers! Here's my former ILs neighbor's Schnorkie ad - she got her AKC female schnauzer from them and "used" their male Yorkie as the stud.

All their dogs are loved and treated well, the Shepherds have quite the compound - with 5 acres they have plenty of land.

 

[DisneyMomma81]

One other question (which might be very strange/silly/obvious). If we decide to go with a breeder, are you supposed to negotiate a price with them, or is it just the price they name? (I am assuming that you just go with the price they give you, but I wanted to make sure). Again - I mean no disrespect to fellow breeders out there, and I AM assuming that the price is non-negotiable, I just wanted to make sure!

If the breeder starts negotiating prices run quickly in the other direction! Several of us have mentioned through this thread that you should probably get on the forums for the breed your interested in and learn the good bad and the ugly of the breed your interested in. They can also steer you to a reputable breeder. Please don't be fooled by websites, even BYB and puppy mills can have a slick website.

Good luck on your research and I hope you find the perfect companion for your family.

That's what I was thinking - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something!!!

A few years ago I was selling AKC mini Schanuzers for my former inlaws *set up outside a PetCo/Pet Smart. A family wanted 2 *so they'd have a buddy* I called my inlaws and they got the 2nd 1/2 price, I'm amazed people would drop that kind of $$$ spur of the moment on a dog, I'd research, research, research *but they got good, quality dogs. My former ILs have in the past *if they felt good about it* taken post dated checks from the purchaser, so the buyer had a sort of payment plan instead of paying $500 + all at once....

 

[marie1203]

My former in laws are what I would call AKC back yard breeders *it's her job. They have German Shepherds, Yorkies and mini Schnauzers - all are AKC, their sons have gotten in to French Bull Dogs *again AKC. My kids uncle had baby Frenchies to sell at the best time early-mid Dec. last year, 6 of 'em for $1500-$1800 each, they're family C-mas gifts because of that $$$ ~ 3 *barely used 4 wheelers and a trailer - everyone had a blast riding them/being pulled on sleds on grandpa & ma's 5 acres!

They have bred a male Yorkie & a female Schnauzer - Schnorkies! They're cute and often sell for more $$ than the AKC Schnauzers! Here's my former ILs neighbor's Schnorkie ad - she got her AKC female schnauzer from them and "used" their male Yorkie as the stud.

All their dogs are loved and treated well, the Shepherds have quite the compound - with 5 acres they have plenty of land.

Just because they treated their dogs like they should be treated doesn't mean there are reputable breeder. Most puppy mill dogs have AKC papers AKC doesn't mean a thing this days. As you stated they are doing for money this dogs have not been genetically tested.
OP- these are the kind of breeders you want to stay away from. Reputable breeders will barely even break even because of the cost that comes with all the testing that should be preform.

A few years ago I was selling AKC mini Schanuzers for my former inlaws *set up outside a PetCo/Pet Smart. A family wanted 2 *so they'd have a buddy* I called my inlaws and they got the 2nd 1/2 price, I'm amazed people would drop that kind of $$$ spur of the moment on a dog, I'd research, research, research *but they got good, quality dogs. My former ILs have in the past *if they felt good about it* taken post dated checks from the purchaser, so the buyer had a sort of payment plan instead of paying $500 + all at once....

 

[robinb]

She licks and chews her feet till they are raw. We have used so many suggested products both prescription and over he counter and finally at the vet last suggestion started using the green bottle of Gold Bond medicated body powder and finally the infection in her feet is staying away using that twice a day.

My friend uses Itchy Dog by Omega Paw.

 

[NikiM20]

I urge you to contact breed specific rescue ( pugs in your case).

Last week I lost my 2 year old Great Dane to cardiomyopathy. I did not want a dog now, but knew in a few months I would. I called Great Dane rescue and spoke to the head of it, knowing it often takes months to find a good match
A few weeks ago a great Dane was surrendered who was pregnant. The owner had bred her, but then decided she was eating to much and that the owner did not want to deal with her. The day after she was surrendered she had puppies.
I spoke to DH, we submitted an application and in a few months we will be the proud owners of a purebred puppy. He will not be show quality, but will be absolutely adorable!!

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[angwill]

Robinb,
Thanks for the suggestion on the elimination diet. I will look into doing it that way. I was under the impression that was kind of what I was doing with the grain free foods and changing the protien and carb sources if they don't work but I am willing to try whatever. Thanks so much for the product suggestion too. I will order some just incase the Gold Bond stops working or maybe try both together. As long as I keep the powder on her she doesn't chew and lick them but I can tell when it wears off. Having little dogs that have little poops no I can't imagine having a big dog pooping white rice and cottage cheese. lol

Marie,
My shih tzu with the bad hair is no longer alive. The one I have now has the ear infection and allergies and her hair has thinned but the hair itself other than thinning is still healthy. She is 9 1/2 years old too. The ear infections just started and I am wondering if it was the effect of using the food the vet suggested that did have grain in it 2 months ago and for several moths before. Hopefully the new food and antibiotic and animax in the ears will help it go away. Right now my vet wants me to wait a bit longer with the current food.

As for a specialist the reason my vet has not suggested one is because I live in the middle of nowhere and I am sure the closest would be several hours to any kind of special vet. I have also taken her to three different vets in the area. She has been treated for bacteria and fungus and has no parasites. It has been suggested by 2 of the vets that her allergies are more than likely due to grass. Since we are trying to sell our house we don't want to put in a cement area for them till we move. Even wiping her feet after going out each time didn't help and only made her infection on her paws worse.

I am going to ask about the allergy testing at our next visit. I am sure they can do that at our local vet. Thanks for the suggestions and for sharing.

 

[RMAMom]

I have been dealing with the allergies for a exactly a year now. I started her on grain free salmon and sweet potato food then and it did not help the allergies after 6 months on it and I was told if it would help I would know in 3 months tops. I then tried another food with a different protien source that is good with allergies per our vet and groomer and that did nothing to help after several months. Right now we are back to grain free but lamb as the mean source. Been on that for 2 months and still not helping. We do not give anything other than her food except dried/baked sweet potato I make for her at home and carrots. Both I was told would be a good choice with allergies.

That said the ear infections just started last month but up till that time were not part of the allergies. She licks and chews her feet till they are raw. We have used so many suggested products both prescription and over he counter and finally at the vet last suggestion started using the green bottle of Gold Bond medicated body powder and finally the infection in her feet is staying away using that twice a day. She is still uncomfortably itchy when not on predisone and antibiotic of which I swear she has been on everything on the market over the last year. She also gets pus pockets that turn to scabs on her head and back down her spine and black dots that look like blackheads but there is nothing in the pore. I am honestly starting to think it may be autoimmune and something that is not going to be relieved and still have thought that I am keeping her alive for me and wondering if euthanizing her would be the most humane way to deal with her uncomfortable itching and pain. It is awful.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread but I have been grasping for suggestions on this situation for a year now.

If I were in your situation I would start him on the B.A.R.F. Diet. If you google it you will find a lot of info but I posted a link below to get you started.
http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/20_72/dogbowl.asp

My former in laws are what I would call AKC back yard breeders *it's her job. They have German Shepherds, Yorkies and mini Schnauzers - all are AKC, their sons have gotten in to French Bull Dogs *again AKC. My kids uncle had baby Frenchies to sell at the best time early-mid Dec. last year, 6 of 'em for $1500-$1800 each, they're family C-mas gifts because of that $$$ ~ 3 *barely used 4 wheelers and a trailer - everyone had a blast riding them/being pulled on sleds on grandpa & ma's 5 acres!

They have bred a male Yorkie & a female Schnauzer - Schnorkies! They're cute and often sell for more $$ than the AKC Schnauzers! Here's my former ILs neighbor's Schnorkie ad - she got her AKC female schnauzer from them and "used" their male Yorkie as the stud.

All their dogs are loved and treated well, the Shepherds have quite the compound - with 5 acres they have plenty of land.

This makes me sick to my stomach!!

 

[NYEmomma]

Re: allergies

My parent's cat has had HORRIBLE allergies... he just chews himself raw & has scabs all over. He's been to the vet constantly, has tried all kinds of different food combinations, been on steroids, etc and nothing ever helped.

Finally they off-handedly said, "man, it's like the cat's allergic to water!" But that made them actually think that maybe it WAS the water (they have well water), lol. They tried some distilled water and VOILA!!! All the allergies have been gone and he acts like he feels SO much better.

Cats and dogs are very different, I know... just thought it might be another thing to try.

 

[soonerfan2008]

My former in laws are what I would call AKC back yard breeders *it's her job. They have German Shepherds, Yorkies and mini Schnauzers - all are AKC, their sons have gotten in to French Bull Dogs *again AKC. My kids uncle had baby Frenchies to sell at the best time early-mid Dec. last year, 6 of 'em for $1500-$1800 each, they're family C-mas gifts because of that $$$ ~ 3 *barely used 4 wheelers and a trailer - everyone had a blast riding them/being pulled on sleds on grandpa & ma's 5 acres!

They have bred a male Yorkie & a female Schnauzer - Schnorkies! They're cute and often sell for more $$ than the AKC Schnauzers! Here's my former ILs neighbor's Schnorkie ad - she got her AKC female schnauzer from them and "used" their male Yorkie as the stud.

All their dogs are loved and treated well, the Shepherds have quite the compound - with 5 acres they have plenty of land.

Run, don't walk, from the type of "breeder" mentioned above. One more thing to add to the list: Most reputable breeders DO NOT plan to have litters ready to go home around Christmas. They know this is a terrible time of year to add a new puppy to a family with busy schedules, vacations, travel, etc.

 

[tzolkin]

Again, OT about the allergies.

My mom's dog (a collie) was having major skin issues that just kept getting worse for months. They even had to have her shaved over the summer when her hair was falling out in clumps, she had hot spots and scabs all over, even her eyes were very irritated, and she smelled absolutely horrible.

The vet prescribed medicated baths and they were working on her diet for a long time. They did some testing for several things and eventually figured out that she has thyroid issues. Now she takes one inexpensive pill a day and she is perfectly happy and looks beautiful.

 

[alex9179]

I've fed my dogs a RAW diet for several years since two of my dogs developed skin issues. I tried kibble to address it but they wouldn't eat it So, after researching it for several months we made the switch and the dogs couldn't have been happier. Their skin cleared up, they LOVED meal time, and the cost was at or below the kibbles that would have addressed the issue.

However, since we've moved to Tx, my mixed breed has developed environmental allergies. It's pretty swampy here, so I think the mold and mildew spores are really affecting him. It comes and goes and involves his paws and ears, not his skin.
A RAW diet may not address all of the issues, but it's a good thing to eliminate those factors so that you know it's from food or environment.