pulling kids out of school to cruise...

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

I'll bet the starting salary in IT is double what it is for a teacher. And, this "teachers get the summers off" thing has got to stop. Yeah, they get the summer off--without pay.

And one other note, if you're salaried, you are paid a yearly salary, just because the paychecks are broken out over 9 months rather then 12 doesn't mean it's not a yearly salary. That's a budgeting issue, not a payment issue.

The biggest thing that happens is that folks get so super defensive about the whole issue. When someone asks about taking kids out of school, there's always teachers that chime in and talk about the extra work. Like I've pointed out, to me, I appreciate that it's being done for my child, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to request it. I do it every day in my life too, and it's expected of me.

 

[jahber]

True, but teachers get paid more than janitors, or secretaries, and you don't ever get called at 2:00am because a job or a server crashed. In all cases, that's the choice that we made when we chose our career. One of the things that I accept about working in IT is that we do changes after hours, and project managers always budget about half the time I need to get a task done so it requires working more than 8 hours a day.

My point isn't to belittle the effort that teachers make, and I do think they aren't paid enough, my point is that trying to ephasize that you're expected to do this on your own time isn't going to garner points with everyone, because we are all working jobs where we're expected to do work on our own time so it's not that unusual.

I've worked in IT before, so I completely understand where you're coming from. IT workers are expected to work miracles and suffer abuse from rude customers. But aside from teaching, I never had a job where I wasn't either paid or compensated via PTO for extra work, including IT work. I'm not saying it isn't happening in your case, just that it's not an acceptable practice for me. Thus, one of the reasons I'm not a teacher anymore. All said and done, at my last teaching job I was paid less than $5.00 an hour when I calculated pay vs hours worked (and no insurance). And because it happens in other fields doesn't make it right. In fact, in at some of my other jobs we were told not to clock out late OR stay late "off the clock" (to avoid overtime) and to take all required breaks, lest the company pay fines for not conforming to labor laws. So not ALL jobs require people to work for free. And those that do are technically in violation of labor laws, at least here in FL. Except for schools, that is.

Edited to add: when I say I'm no longer a teacher, I mean I'm no longer PAID to teach. I homeschool my children and will always consider myself a teacher. It gets in the blood

 

[BealsRwe]

We have opted to pull our daughter out every year for a week until this year. 3rd grade in Florida and the FCAT (pass test or fail 3rd grade) we wanted her to be in school as much as possible. We did pull her out for a 3-night. DH and I both work in tourism, at WDW. Taking vacations during her breaks is next to impossible. As long as her grades remain good, it's back to a week long cruise this fall. We always send a note to her principal, teacher, and get work to keep her up to speed. Family time is so important. So is learning outside the classroom!

 

[clarkshel]

So, while I can understand and appreciate that you work 50+ hours during your school year, I would also hope that you understand and appreciate that I am in IT, and spent about 10 years working 60 - 80 hour weeks every week of the year. I didn't get summers off, and I didn't get paid for that extra time. It's not an unusual situation any more for people to be expected to work more hours during the week than they are paid for by salary, which is probably why there isn't too much sympathy out there for teachers when they complain about it. We all do it, it's life. Yes, you're doing something nice for a child going on vacation, but it's not anything above and beyond what I'm expected to do every week.

It all depends on what company you work for. When I used to be in IT and on salary, all the companies I used to work for would give you overtime for anything above the normal 40 hour work week. You usually banked the time. You can use it for time off or get paid out. You said there are a lot of jobs that require you to work free overtime. Well there are lots that pay for overtime above your salary. Teachers never get paid for the 20 or 30 hours they work extra each week. If you have never taught, then you have no idea on what teachers have to deal with.

Sorry for going off topic,

 

[ChrisParker]

I am not saying 28 days, that is very excessive and there should be reasonable limits. Who even gets 28 days of vacation to take?

I am thinking of the average family that gets 2-3 weeks a year and due to work schedules, finances, what have you cannot take a vacation during school breaks. That amounts to a maximum of 15 school days, but with school schedules being what they are with half days where virtually no education happens once a week, we are now down to a maximum of 12 educational days. As I said in my other posts, since lesson plans have to be turned in at least two weeks before school starts (something that I hear teachers around hear complaining about to no end, so I know it's the way it works here at least), this shouldn't be too difficult to begin with. Then factor in teacher prep days and such and you will most likely down to no more than 10 educational days (for three weeks worth of vacations) to make up. This doesn't factor in any movie days, assembly days or other such items that chew into the educational days.

So, I still maintain it is not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. I am not saying its not extra work, but I am saying that we need to put it in perspective.

I don't know that there is much point in arguing with someone who so obviously has a chip on their shoulder about teachers, and has so fundamentally flawed an idea of what constitutes education and what goes on in a school.

I would humbly suggest that you go to teachers' college and join this gravy train you think educators are riding, but don't be surprised if it's not as easy as it looks, or if there is more going on in education than you can see from your standpoint.

No one I know thinks they know everything there is to know about medicine because they have spent time in an emergency ward, but I do see quite a few who think they know everything about education because they sat in a classroom.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

It all depends on what company you work for. When I used to be in IT and on salary, all the companies I used to work for would give you overtime for anything above the normal 40 hour work week. You usually banked the time. You can use it for time off or get paid out. You said there are a lot of jobs that require you to work free overtime. Well there are lots that pay for overtime above your salary. Teachers never get paid for the 20 or 30 hours they work extra each week. If you have never taught, then you have no idea on what teachers have to deal with.

Sorry for going off topic,

Maybe not, but there's a reason why I jumped tracks in IT, and don't work for that company any longer too. No, I don't know what teachers have to deal with, do they know what I've had to deal with? Nope, is it material to the situation? Nope.

I've never said that teachers don't do a hard job, and don't get a lot of appreciation for it, my whole point is that there are lots of professions that have the same kind of problems, some are better, some are worse, it's not limited to teachers. So when teachers get bent out of shape because they feel that someone is making more work for them, they should remember that this person might not have had a vacation in years, worked 60+ hours per week for years, had to get up at 2:00am for emergencies, and finally be going on their very first vacation in years.

The DIS is famous for people playing devil's advocate and coming up with all sorts of reasons for situations, that's all I'm doing here.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

I respect how hard most teachers work; however, at the end of the day, it is what is best for the child and not the teacher that matters. If you don't believe that, then to be brutally honest, you don't have any business being a teacher. I know that may sound harsh, but its the truth. Lets face it, teachers don't get in this business to make a ton of money, they do it because they want what's best for the children and if your not in it for that reason, you have no business doing it.

Seriously??? Lets talk about the responsibility a parent has to their child and the child's education. Is it "best for the child" to miss valuable days of their education? As an educator, I find your response here shocking and rude.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;48665015]Seriously??? Lets talk about the responsibility a parent has to their child and the child's education. Is it "best for the child" to miss valuable days of their education? As an educator, I find your response here shocking and rude.[/QUOTE]

But your assumption that a parent has nothing of value to add to a child's education isn't? How many complaints are there from teachers here about how the curriculum is now devoted to teaching to the test, and they don't teach kids to think or analyze any more because they have to teach to the test? How would missing a few days or a week of that impact a child's education?

Folks, let's get real. Yes, people take kids out of school for vacations, it happens. Some do it because that's the only time their work will allow them to get off (I grew up a military brat, we took vacations when dad could get the time off, didn't matter when that was), some do it because it's cheaper, and there's nothing wrong with that option either, and some do it because it's less crowded. For many kids, this won't impact their school career at all, and getting the time to spend with a parent who is working so hard is immensely valuable, for other kids, it will impact them, but mom and dad will work hard to help them keep up because the vacation is worth it to them, and for some kids it will impact them and mom and dad don't give a squat. Looking down our noses at anyone for the choices they make in cases 1 and 2 is presumptuous and snooty, case 3, feel free to be judgemental and snooty.

In most cases, you aren't going to change people's minds, and neither side is interested in hearing what the other has to say, we're all just spitting into the wind hoping it doesn't fly back and hit us in the face because we think it's fun.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

People who get paid salary don't usually get paid for time off. It's not just teachers. It is part of the salary agreement. It just so happens that most people get 2 - 3 weeks off while teachers get 8 - 10 weeks + 2 week long breaks. As far as working through summer vacation, I think most salaried employees do some sort of work while on "vacation".

Most people get 2-3 weeks off. That is what teachers get as well (a week in spring and two at Christmas). 8-10 weeks in the summer is not a vacation or a break. It is a mandatory stoppage of work without pay. Not at all the same thing.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

The system is designed to allow travel: during the summer. But as a previous teacher pointed out, folks like to travel during off-peak times because it's generally cheaper and the crowds might be smaller. But that doesn't make traveling at off-peak times more valuable educationally than travel during peak times.

There are many experiences around the world that cannot take place in the summer. Summer break was not instituted for travel, it was instituted because the society at the time was agricultural and kids worked the farm. It grew into vacation season. But there is so much in the world during spring, fall, and winter! No winter olympics trips!

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;48665166]Most people get 2-3 weeks off. That is what teachers get as well (a week in spring and two at Christmas). 8-10 weeks in the summer is not a vacation or a break. It is a mandatory stoppage of work without pay. Not at all the same thing.[/QUOTE]

If you're on a yearly salary, no, it's not a mandatory stoppage of work at all. It just means that your salary is distributed in paychecks over 9 1/2 to 10 months, not 12 months. Again, it's a budgeting issue, not a salary issue. If you're paid hourly, then yes, you're not getting paid for not working, but then you're paid for the time you work.

At the same yearly salary, say $50,000 just for argument's sake, someone who is paid 2 times a month for 12 months will gross $2,083 per paycheck. Someone who is paid 2 times a month for 10 months will gross $2,500 per paycheck. The same annual salary, just distributed differently.

 

[bigvig1130]

Most people get 2-3 weeks off. That is what teachers get as well (a week in spring and two at Christmas). 8-10 weeks in the summer is not a vacation or a break. It is a mandatory stoppage of work without pay. Not at all the same thing.

Ok so try working those extra 8 - 10 weeks and still get paid the same salary like every other person who is salaried does. I am in a salaried position in retail and I don't get an extra 2 month work stoppage, yet I don't get paid any more money. And I do work well over 40 hours a week with no extra compensation.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;48665015]Seriously??? Lets talk about the responsibility a parent has to their child and the child's education. Is it "best for the child" to miss valuable days of their education? As an educator, I find your response here shocking and rude.

But your assumption that a parent has nothing of value to add to a child's education isn't? How many complaints are there from teachers here about how the curriculum is now devoted to teaching to the test, and they don't teach kids to think or analyze any more because they have to teach to the test? How would missing a few days or a week of that impact a child's education?

Folks, let's get real. Yes, people take kids out of school for vacations, it happens. Some do it because that's the only time their work will allow them to get off (I grew up a military brat, we took vacations when dad could get the time off, didn't matter when that was), some do it because it's cheaper, and there's nothing wrong with that option either, and some do it because it's less crowded. For many kids, this won't impact their school career at all, and getting the time to spend with a parent who is working so hard is immensely valuable, for other kids, it will impact them, but mom and dad will work hard to help them keep up because the vacation is worth it to them, and for some kids it will impact them and mom and dad don't give a squat. Looking down our noses at anyone for the choices they make in cases 1 and 2 is presumptuous and snooty, case 3, feel free to be judgemental and snooty.

In most cases, you aren't going to change people's minds, and neither side is interested in hearing what the other has to say, we're all just spitting into the wind hoping it doesn't fly back and hit us in the face because we think it's fun. [/QUOTE]

I am a high school teacher and the only test I am teaching to (or at least preparing my students for) is the ACT. I am not assuming that parents have nothing of value to add to their child's education. I am just saying that I can help your child get into college more than a Disney vacation in the middle of the school year will. But of course, the choice is yours!!!

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;48665260]I am a high school teacher and the only test I am teaching to (or at least preparing my students for) is the ACT. I am not assuming that parents have nothing of value to add to their child's education. I am just saying that I can help your child get into college more than a Disney vacation in the middle of the school year will. But of course, the choice is yours!!![/QUOTE]

The point that most on this thread have been trying to make, is that a break in the middle of the year may not be ideal, but may be the best option they have. If my child missing a week of school in a year for a Disney vacation will miss getting into college, then I wouldn't take my child out of school. My response to you was because you posted that a PP was rude because they talked about what's best for the child, and you assumed that butts in seats every day of school for your class is what's best for the child, what if it isn't? What about the kids who's dads are deployed, and they only get 1 week off to spend with their family during that deployment and it falls during the school year, would it not be good for the child to take that time off to spend it with a parent?

 

[bigvig1130]

But your assumption that a parent has nothing of value to add to a child's education isn't? How many complaints are there from teachers here about how the curriculum is now devoted to teaching to the test, and they don't teach kids to think or analyze any more because they have to teach to the test? How would missing a few days or a week of that impact a child's education?

Folks, let's get real. Yes, people take kids out of school for vacations, it happens. Some do it because that's the only time their work will allow them to get off (I grew up a military brat, we took vacations when dad could get the time off, didn't matter when that was), some do it because it's cheaper, and there's nothing wrong with that option either, and some do it because it's less crowded. For many kids, this won't impact their school career at all, and getting the time to spend with a parent who is working so hard is immensely valuable, for other kids, it will impact them, but mom and dad will work hard to help them keep up because the vacation is worth it to them, and for some kids it will impact them and mom and dad don't give a squat. Looking down our noses at anyone for the choices they make in cases 1 and 2 is presumptuous and snooty, case 3, feel free to be judgemental and snooty.

In most cases, you aren't going to change people's minds, and neither side is interested in hearing what the other has to say, we're all just spitting into the wind hoping it doesn't fly back and hit us in the face because we think it's fun.

I am a high school teacher and the only test I am teaching to (or at least preparing my students for) is the ACT. I am not assuming that parents have nothing of value to add to their child's education. I am just saying that I can help your child get into college more than a Disney vacation in the middle of the school year will. But of course, the choice is yours!!![/QUOTE]

Don't you think that, just maybe, experiences you may encounter with different cultures in different countries could differentiate a college application more so that a question or 2 on the ACTs. Extra curricular activities seem to have been replaced by more homework. I don't want to minimize the value of teachers, but some teachers seem to get offended and try to minimize when something outside the classroom might actually teach a child something that can't be learned in a classroom. God forbid that lesson come from.... the parents.

 

[Moxin]

Quite frankly, I don't see an issue with it at all.

I took my oldest out a couple of times (only once per school year), and it was never an issue.

My youngest will enjoy vacations during school as well. I don't know of anyone who's been adversely affected by being taken out of school for a week for a vacation with family. Personally, I think it's important that families get that opportunity. Summers aren't always conducive to adults getting vacations, and to give their families some enjoyment in life, going during the school year is a small sacrifice to pay for it.

Smart parents discuss it with teachers, as well as try and plan it around shortened weeks during the year (when the schools have a three day weekend perhaps).

For those that refuse to take their kids out of school, more power to you, but I hardly think it's worth chastising those that do.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

The point that most on this thread have been trying to make, is that a break in the middle of the year may not be ideal, but may be the best option they have. If my child missing a week of school in a year for a Disney vacation will miss getting into college, then I wouldn't take my child out of school. My response to you was because you posted that a PP was rude because they talked about what's best for the child, and you assumed that butts in seats every day of school for your class is what's best for the child, what if it isn't? What about the kids who's dads are deployed, and they only get 1 week off to spend with their family during that deployment and it falls during the school year, would it not be good for the child to take that time off to spend it with a parent?

In this scenario, absolutely. But if you are honest, you know most reasons are not because of a deployed parent. I felt the pp was rude saying that the poster should not be teaching if s/he did not always put kids first. I felt that was a rude comment when s/he is clearly just following the school policy, as was clearly stated.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

I am a high school teacher and the only test I am teaching to (or at least preparing my students for) is the ACT. I am not assuming that parents have nothing of value to add to their child's education. I am just saying that I can help your child get into college more than a Disney vacation in the middle of the school year will. But of course, the choice is yours!!!

Don't you think that, just maybe, experiences you may encounter with different cultures in different countries could differentiate a college application more so that a question or 2 on the ACTs. Extra curricular activities seem to have been replaced by more homework. I don't want to minimize the value of teachers, but some teachers seem to get offended and try to minimize when something outside the classroom might actually teach a child something that can't be learned in a classroom. God forbid that lesson come from.... the parents.[/QUOTE]

Of course it can! I will be doing that on a few weeks with my own kids on the Fantasy Eastern Caribbean cruise. And they will go back to school and learn great new things from their teachers when school is in session. Best of both worlds! It took years to save up for an expensive summer cruise, but hopefully it will give us the family time we all need. I do not kid myself into thinking that our 6 hours in St. Thomas on a snorkel tour will set my kids apart from others on their college applications .

 

[dnice416]

As the person that started this thread I would like to say thank you for all of the input that has been given. I did in fact decide before posting that I was going to take my daughter age 9 out of school to attend my September wedding on the Disney Fantasy. I felt as if the beginning of the school year would be less detrimental to her studies and assume that durning the first few weeks of school (she starts the first week of September) a review of the previous year will be implemented and she wouldn't miss out on new academics. To all of the teachers that have posted I do understand the amount of extra work that goes into having a student catch up to their classmates when time is missed. Teachers definitely aren't given the credit they deserve. Perhaps we could have had a wedding when school wasn't in session but the timing happened to work out best for my family. I do intend to make sure all work is completed in a timely fashion after our return since advancement of schoolwork isn't allowed in our district but I also must admit that I will ensure that she gets to let loose and have fun exploring the carribian with us!!

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

As the person that started this thread I would like to say thank you for all of the input that has been given. I did in fact decide before posting that I was going to take my daughter age 9 out of school to attend my September wedding on the Disney Fantasy. I felt as if the beginning of the school year would be less detrimental to her studies and assume that durning the first few weeks of school (she starts the first week of September) a review of the previous year will be implemented and she wouldn't miss out on new academics. To all of the teachers that have posted I do understand the amount of extra work that goes into having a student catch up to their classmates when time is missed. Teachers definitely aren't given the credit they deserve. Perhaps we could have had a wedding when school wasn't in session but the timing happened to work out best for my family. I do intend to make sure all work is completed in a timely fashion after our return since advancement of schoolwork isn't allowed in our district but I also must admit that I will ensure that she gets to let loose and have fun exploring the carribian with us!!

Congratulations! I am sure it will be a great trip for all of you.