Public school system- not happy

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh lordy I dont even know how to describe my dd's problems in learning, her memory just plain old sucks for math and spelling but pick out one of her toys and she can tell you where something was bought, who bought it how much it was, where it is now, what holiday she got it for.. let me first say she is very well behaved.. there is no cursing, throwing stuff, biting, spitting going on with her, she looks "normal", she also is my "finder" if I put something some place and dont remember where I ask her, go figure.. my dd's state test was video taped and scored that way. I do not think there was much of a written part. I have no idea what was "on the test" since I wasn't there. The test was physically different and scores are NOT averaged in. They are told to us as different school scores. My dd was on ability for her problems in all but one area she needed prompting with one section (I dont remember what it was I'll have to look for the scores later.. they are in one of the thousands of piles of papers I have here) FL might be different but in PA lifeskills classes do NOT count as part of the reg school average.

That makes sense!

Thank you for sharing. You didn't have to.

What I was trying to not so eloquently get at--there are LD kids who may not have those type of challenges, but still struggle and may have to take the tests.

The absolute statement you made is what I was calling into question. I guess looking back at the post (helpful, huh?)--you probably are correct as the person was talking about life skills.

However, I know of a family with a child who cannot feed himself due to injuries received in a wreck, but his brain is fully functioning. He is a smart cookie based on his family reports of his progress. His body may need a life skills class, but his brain doesn't. And he (at this time, even though he is not old enough for school), is not projected to have any issues academically other than needing a different way to accomplish his tasks so that he can learn.

 

[princessmom29]

NOPE!! You are wrong!!! My dd 11 is in a lifeskills class and had to do the state testing last year... she had a totally different test than others in the same grade as her TOTALLY WRONG!!! TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

Sorry, but NOT totally wrong, as I said before, I think your school is fudging some things becuase the law as I understand it is that every cxhild must be tested to meed grade level standards. The test make be given in a different way, but it still must prove that the child meets grade level standards. If not, then no matter how profoundly disabled they are counted agianst the school for AYP.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In many ways, Helene. In many ways.

Whether a student receives special education services or not, and whether a student is on an alternative assessment track or not, progress must still be reported yearly. Those students are also required to meet AYP. And when those students fail, either because there is no alternative assessment for them, or because they are unable to pass the state assessment, or because they don't test well, or because it was too windy that day, that is a ding on the district.

AS I understand the federal law, special education students are required to be counted in the overall score. There is a different standard for them as a subgroup, but thier scores are supposed to count toward the school as a whole, even those on a lifeskills class. I don't know how your school is getting around this because we have to count everyone, no matter how profoundly disabled.

Hmmm....

Well now I am confused!

So maybe HelenePA's child takes a test to ***** her own abilities--but if she isn't progressing as is expected of her ability--it would still get weighed in with other students.

BUT--wouldn't it only skew results if she was given the exact same test as her peers?

 

[HelenePA]

That makes sense!

Thank you for sharing. You didn't have to.

What I was trying to not so eloquently get at--there are LD kids who may not have those type of challenges, but still struggle and may have to take the tests.

The absolute statement you made is what I was calling into question. I guess looking back at the post (helpful, huh?)--you probably are correct as the person was talking about life skills.

However, I know of a family with a child who cannot feed himself due to injuries received in a wreck, but his brain is fully functioning. He is a smart cookie based on his family reports of his progress. His body may need a life skills class, but his brain doesn't. And he (at this time, even though he is not old enough for school), is not projected to have any issues academically other than needing a different way to accomplish his tasks so that he can learn.

Will he be in a lifeskill class IF his brain is all there? wouldn't he just have an aid to help him out and be mainstreamed...

when we got our state scores in we got them in 3 groups.. reg kids, lifeskills, and ESL (english second lang) the reg kids and lifeskills were fine the ESL scores were bad very very bad... VERY bad in our school

 

[HelenePA]

I do think my dd will have to make AP for HER abilities and her test. NOT the mainstreamed test and scores she would get on that if that makes sense... they actually SEE these kids and what they can do when they take the test year after year with the video tapes...

what did you get ****** out? lol

 

[Goofyluver]

Hmmm....

Well now I am confused!

So maybe HelenePA's child takes a test to ***** her own abilities--but if she isn't progressing as is expected of her ability--it would still get weighed in with other students.

BUT--wouldn't it only skew results if she was given the exact same test as her peers?

I'm trying to figure out the starred out word.

As to the bolded...

And that is (one of) the problem with many states that do not offer alternative assessments.

ALL students must meet adequate yearly progress, whether they are special education students or not. When the special education students do not meet AYP, that is a ding against the school district. In many states, they are set up to fail because they are forced to take state assessments on grade level rather than their ability level.

While a district may report scores in any one subgroup individually (i.e. special education students, or ESL students), the district is still measured overall. If a subgroup fails to meet AYP, then the district has failed to meet AYP.

 

[punkin]

Hmmm....

Well now I am confused!

So maybe HelenePA's child takes a test to ***** her own abilities--but if she isn't progressing as is expected of her ability--it would still get weighed in with other students.

BUT--wouldn't it only skew results if she was given the exact same test as her peers?

What cold possibly have been blanked out here?

 

[princessmom29]

Hmmm....

Well now I am confused!

So maybe HelenePA's child takes a test to ***** her own abilities--but if she isn't progressing as is expected of her ability--it would still get weighed in with other students.

BUT--wouldn't it only skew results if she was given the exact same test as her peers?

No, the law says she should be getting an alternate testing method to measure the same grade level standard her peers are held to. IN the case of my high school students, and 11th grader with an IQ of 50 who cannot read is expected to be able to pass the reading potion of the graduation exam. The allowable accomodation is that the questions, but not the reading passages may be read to the student. Needless to say that student is NOT going to pass and will be counted as a failure agianst the school. A child that cannot write may give oral answers and have their test videoed, but they still must demonstrate mastery of skills on grade level to be counted as a passing score. It is against the law to "not count" a special ed score of any type. My school meets every academic indicator for every subgroup every year, but is considered a failing school becuase we cannot graduate 90%. 7% of our students are special ed lifeskills students who will never pass the graduation exam. Because they do not graduate with a regular diploma in 4 years they are counted as dropouts, and we do not make AYP.

 

[Pigeon]

All private schools I know of have scholarships available. In addition, when someone wants something bad enough, they can make it happen. I was home with my son for his first 4 years only because I took care of another family's children all day and did a paper route every night. I would do the same again if I really felt home schooling would be better for my son. Charter schools are free; you just have to search them out and apply.

Having some scholarships available is not the same as granting scholarships to anyone who wants one. Usually they are limited in number, and there are qualifications that not everyone will meet. To blithely say that every family that is struggling to put food on their table should just homeschool or get a scholarship is unrealistic.

I am opposed to charter schools, so I certainly wouldn't be searching one out. But there are none in our district in any event, so no, not everyone just needs to search them out and apply.

 

[princessmom29]

I do think my dd will have to make AP for HER abilities and her test. NOT the mainstreamed test and scores she would get on that if that makes sense... they actually SEE these kids and what they can do when they take the test year after year with the video tapes...

what did you get ****** out? lol

As I understand it, this is true for the special ed subgroup, but she should also count towards the overall school score, and if she is not performing at grade level would be counted as NOT making AYP.

 

[HelenePA]

No, the law says she should be getting an alternate testing method to measure the same grade level standard her peers are held to. IN the case of my high school students, and 11th grader with an IQ of 50 who cannot read is expected to be able to pass the reading potion of the graduation exam. The allowable accomodation is that the questions, but not the reading passages may be read to the student. Needless to say that student is NOT going to pass and will be counted as a failure agianst the school. A child that cannot write may give oral answers and have their test videoed, but they still must demonstrate mastery of skills on grade level to be counted as a passing score. It is against the law to "not count" a special ed score of any type. My school meets every academic indicator for every subgroup every year, but is considered a failing school becuase we cannot graduate 90%. 7% of our students are special ed lifeskills students who will never pass the graduation exam. Because they do not graduate with a regular diploma in 4 years they are counted as dropouts, and we do not make AYP.

Our ESL students tests on a score of 29% we did not make AYP I dont know if its different here compared to AL and I honestly dont care enough to look but I can assure you my then 10 yr old did NOT take the same test as her peers did... and she never will. My district (each town is its own district here) only has 8 lifeskills students including my dd

 

[HelenePA]

As I understand it, this is true for the special ed subgroup, but she should also count towards the overall school score, and if she is not performing at grade level would be counted as NOT making AYP.

on her report it says she did make AYP.

 

[princessmom29]

on her report it says she did make AYP.

as a part of the special ed subgroup she likely did, but her score would be counted in a different way as a part of the overall school score.

BTW, I din't qupte the post, but I never siad she took the same test as everyone else. Obviously she didn't, but her test SHOULD have been measuring the same grade level standards as the test everyone else took. It is ok to measure the standards through different methods of assessment, but the standard should be the same.

 

[golfgal]

She's not wrong. Not all states offer alternative assessments for students with disabilities.

My previous state of residence (New Mexico) had no alternative assessment for special education students.

My current state of residence (Texas) has changed state assessments this year. Previous to this year, the TAKS test was offered in modified and accomodated versions for students needing test modifications and accomodations. This year, the new state assessment has no alternate or modified versions thus far. At this point, there is only one assessment being offered for students, regardless of ability level.

Sorry, but NOT totally wrong, as I said before, I think your school is fudging some things becuase the law as I understand it is that every cxhild must be tested to meed grade level standards. The test make be given in a different way, but it still must prove that the child meets grade level standards. If not, then no matter how profoundly disabled they are counted agianst the school for AYP.

I am pretty sure that in states where they offer alternative tests they can only offer so many and the rest of the students take the "regular" test--which is why the special ed scores for so many districts are so low.

Our ESL students tests on a score of 29% we did not make AYP I dont know if its different here compared to AL and I honestly dont care enough to look but I can assure you my then 10 yr old did NOT take the same test as her peers did... and she never will. My district (each town is its own district here) only has 8 lifeskills students including my dd

That could explain things-see above. It's possible your DD and her classmates were capable of passing this alternative test, which would bump up the sped scores for your school, the rest of the sped kids, however, most likely did not take a different test.

 

[taylor1293]

I see from your next post you are in NY. In Florida, where the OP is, 1st Grade is only graded on Math, Language Arts and Reading. I have a 1st grade report card here. They DO get Science and Social Studies grades however those are integrated subjects. For example if they read a story on George Washington and get an A on the test...that grade counts for reading and social studies. In our former FL district, 1st grade doesn't get A/B/C/D/F letter grades, just satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

Since Florida operates from a state-wide curriculum (Sunshine State Standards) I would expect that the OPs school would be similar.

I have the 3rd Grade FCAT here too. They only test on reading and math. I think the next one adds science.

I'm a teacher in Florida and our county is different than Seminole. While 1st grade does integrate those subjects they also have their own resources and are expected (and have scheduled time) to teach them individually.

FCAT reading/math starts in third. Writing is added in 4th, 8th and 10th and Science is given in 5th, 8th and 11th. However, standardized testing is also given in 1st and 2nd grade.

As a former teacher I can tell you that unfortunately they aren't testing to find out what kids are learning. They are testing so they'll have data to turn in for all of the massive amounts of paperwork required by the massive education bureaucracy. All those tests are helping a bunch of administrators justify their jobs (that usually pay wayyyyyyyy better than a teaching salary).

Sad, but true. At my school, we are required to turn in test data weekly. We are supposed to have our data turned in before we leave on Friday. Our data is read aloud in our weekly meetings and sometimes we must defend why only "x" percent of our students got 80% or better.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Having some scholarships available is not the same as granting scholarships to anyone who wants one. Usually they are limited in number, and there are qualifications that not everyone will meet. To blithely say that every family that is struggling to put food on their table should just homeschool or get a scholarship is unrealistic.

I am opposed to charter schools, so I certainly wouldn't be searching one out. But there are none in our district in any event, so no, not everyone just needs to search them out and apply.

At the beginning, no one ever said that. But regardless, those are options. There are also public schooling alternatives in Florida where the OP lives--but most of those alternatives are lottery based (documentary recently about such programs, though I don't know if it was schools in Florida or elsewhere. But similar idea. Better school, teaches kids in a different way, and your acceptance is a based on random selection.)

Your statement implies that it must be difficult for all. While it may be true for some, it isn't true for all. Either way--it is still a valid alternative. (And OP did not mention a struggle, did she?)

 

[agnes!]

We are in NY and they get tested way too much, too.

It's like having a cow and weighing it so often that you don't have time to feed it.

A friend of mine, who is a teacher, posted this on Facebook this week:

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND---The Football Version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs and all MUST win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable. If after two years they have not won the championship, their footballs and equipment will be taken away UNTIL they do win the championship.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time even if they do not have the same conditions or opportunities to practice on their own. NO exceptions will be made for lack of interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities of themselves or their parents. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL!

3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability, or whose parents don't like football.

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games.

5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.

I repeated the above all over again just because I think both posts are so brilliant.

I don't think anyone is happy with the state of education in the United States today.
Is anyone thrilled with special-needs children having to test and to improve to some unrealistic standard thought up in political maneuvering on Capitol Hill? Is anyone ecstatic that our children start suffering from text anxiety when they are in 1st Grade? Is anyone excited that we are literally drilling the love of learning right out of our students?

Does ANYONE think that this is the best we can do for the next generation?

Is this the best we can do? Well, is it?!

Lord, I certainly hope not.
agnes!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hmmm....

Well now I am confused!

So maybe HelenePA's child takes a test to ***** her own abilities--but if she isn't progressing as is expected of her ability--it would still get weighed in with other students.

BUT--wouldn't it only skew results if she was given the exact same test as her peers?

I do think my dd will have to make AP for HER abilities and her test. NOT the mainstreamed test and scores she would get on that if that makes sense... they actually SEE these kids and what they can do when they take the test year after year with the video tapes...

what did you get ****** out? lol

I'm trying to figure out the starred out word.

As to the bolded...

And that is (one of) the problem with many states that do not offer alternative assessments.

ALL students must meet adequate yearly progress, whether they are special education students or not. When the special education students do not meet AYP, that is a ding against the school district. In many states, they are set up to fail because they are forced to take state assessments on grade level rather than their ability level.

While a district may report scores in any one subgroup individually (i.e. special education students, or ESL students), the district is still measured overall. If a subgroup fails to meet AYP, then the district has failed to meet AYP.

What cold possibly have been blanked out here?

I have no idea! I promise I didn't write anything bad. I can't even think of what word is missing let alone how it could have been starred out with or without a typo.

Oh--i think I know what it was....the root word of assessment and maybe I forgot an "s" or something.

Assess?

I bet I forgot an "s".

ETA: Yep. Because that version wasn't starred out.

 

[torinsmom]

Having some scholarships available is not the same as granting scholarships to anyone who wants one. Usually they are limited in number, and there are qualifications that not everyone will meet. To blithely say that every family that is struggling to put food on their table should just homeschool or get a scholarship is unrealistic.

I am opposed to charter schools, so I certainly wouldn't be searching one out. But there are none in our district in any event, so no, not everyone just needs to search them out and apply.

Yes, you do have to qualify for scholarships, but everyone is able to apply and may get partial help. I'm sure if you are actually struggling to get food on the table, you would qualify. Of course, if you are struggling to put food on the table, I doubt you would have the money to be on the internet.

I didn't blithely say anything and neither did anyone else. We just pointed out that there are alternatives to public school if parents have issues with it. Charter schools are an option for many people. If not for you, that is your choice just like anything else. Public schools will always be lacking in some areas, but many people make the most of what is there. We supplement our kids learning, and play an active role in what goes on in the school. We stand up against policy changes that aren't in the best interest of our kids, and stand up for policies that are a step in the right direction. Basically, we make the most with what we are given. Honestly, I wouldn't put my child in most of the private schools around here. There is no cultural or economic diversity and the parents run the school because they pay such high tuition. Some might think that's a good thing, but it's almost as bad as the state running the school. I wouldn't homeschool, because I would strangle my child

 

[Goofyluver]

I have no idea! I promise I didn't write anything bad. I can't even think of what word is missing let alone how it could have been starred out with or without a typo.

Oh--i think I know what it was....the root word of assessment and maybe I forgot an "s" or something.

Assess?

I bet I forgot an "s".

ETA: Yep. Because that version wasn't starred out.