Public school system- not happy

[stashbin]

That same homework may have taken another child 10 minutes to do. This is where some of the problem lies--like you said, your child has to study for her grades, other kids wouldn't have had to open a book and still got 100% on the test. Also, what else was she doing while she was studying? Did she have the TV on, was she texting her friends, checking facebook, etc. We hear this a lot from parents of some of our kids' friends-how much homework they have, yet they have 30 facebook posts about what song they are listening to on their Ipods and what score they got on Angry Birds all while they are "doing their homework". Our kids are juniors in high school and have NEVER had 7 hours of homework in one evening, they have never even had 5 hours in one evening. They are taking all AP/Honors classes and still don't have that much homework in an evening.

For all the parents complaining about "too much homework", let's check back in a few years when your kids are in high school and see how well they are keeping up with their peers.

First of all, what kind of mother would I be if I allowed my child to "study" while using electronic devices, watching TV or listening to her ipod? Give me just a small break! My children don't even have Facebook!
The two study guides were LONG and HARD and had hard concepts. She had to know that stuff for the test the next day. If you read my original post, you will see that the study guides didn't come home until the night before the test. Couple that with some math homework and it makes for a long night. As for taking another kid 10 minutes to complete....that may be true but each kid is different.
Let me give you another example of why I hate homework. My child had to write her times tables 3 times each for homework every night last year. It didn't matter that they were doing fractions in class or that she already knew her times tables. I complained to the teacher and the principal but she still had to write those times tables. She was so discouraged and over it that I started helping her write them especially on the nights she had spelling, grammar, history, or science! Show me a kid that can write their times tables 1's-12's three times each in 10 minutes and I will gladly admit I am wrong.

If you are doing fractions in class....a few fractions should be assigned for practice work at home. If you have a major test on Friday...study guides should be sent home before the day before the test. Otherwise.....the rest is useless.
Oh and I wanted to agree with the person said we are falling behind because of parental involvement. That goes both ways though. I have seen parents cripple their kids by being too involved, and by disrespecting the teacher in front of the kid, thus causing disrespect to spill into the classroom.
Rant over.

 

[kamgen]

I never said my child is struggling...ever. He has gotten great grades and is not overwhelmed. And some kids will not struggle to keep up with their peers.
This is the entire problem with our society...it is all about keeping up with the next guy. I want my child to be successful and he will...BUT the most successful kids are not always the most successful adults. And vice versa. The amount of homework they complete will not give any indication of how well they will succeed in life.

I started this thread so I could brainstorm with other parents, vent a little, get some information about what other school systems were doing. I did not start this thread to have people turn this into a competition about who does what and who has a more educated child.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I appreciate the thoughts. But my opinion is that school is where at least 90% of the schoolwork should be finished. If a child does a bunch of worksheets in class he should not have to do more of them at home too. Again, my opinion.

 

[princessmom29]

This is the entire problem with our society...it is all about keeping up with the next guy. I want my child to be successful and he will...BUT the most successful kids are not always the most successful adults. And vice versa. The amount of homework they complete will not give any indication of how well they will succeed in life.

.

Actually, I think that how much effort a child is asked to put forth in school is a pretty good indcator of how much effort they are going to put toward thier job later on. If they are taught that teachers shouldn't be asking for thier best effort, and that good enough is ok then that attitude WILL carry over when they are adults. You simply cannot get ahead in the real world doing just enough to get by, and trying to confine ALL schoolwork to school hours is, IMO, doing just enough to get by. You just cannot do in all in the classroom with no help from the parent.

 

[Bilberry]

John Stossel has a nice article out today about school systems.

"School Competition Rescues Kids"

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/10/26/school-competition-rescues-kids

 

[kamgen]

You simply cannot get ahead in the real world doing just enough to get by

Actually, you can get ahead in the world without school...it is rare, but true. So to say that you simply cannot get ahead in school by only doing enough to get by (God forbid kids do 5 math worksheets instead of 10) is false. Just ask the countless successful people in modern day society who dropped out.

I see the importance of learning, studying and practicing what you learn. I see the importance of working hard, paying attention and striving for excellence. I do not, however, see the importance of excessive busywork and pushing our kids to compete with one another when one of the main issues in our society is the lack of people who can work together. Just sayin'

 

[DisDiva2]

I totally agree with you! We also moved here recently actually in June. So this is our 1st year at the FL schools. My boys are in 1st and 3rd. We came from IL which has a great school system. No complaints there. My 3rd grader who has never received anything below an A is in a constant struggle. I have talked to his teacher numerous times, he is now getting tutored before school twice a week but it seems to be causing serious anxiety for him. I'm not sure what else to do. I don't want to add any more pressure but the testing is causing some serious stress in our household!

 

[kamgen]

DisDiva2- so glad to see that I am not alone. I totally understand! We are seriously re-evaluating our decision to raise our kids here in Central FL. We will see what happens. Good luck!!!!

 

[princessmom29]

Actually, you can get ahead in the world without school...it is rare, but true. So to say that you simply cannot get ahead in school by only doing enough to get by (God forbid kids do 5 math worksheets instead of 10) is false. Just ask the countless successful people in modern day society who dropped out.

I see the importance of learning, studying and practicing what you learn. I see the importance of working hard, paying attention and striving for excellence. I do not, however, see the importance of excessive busywork and pushing our kids to compete with one another when one of the main issues in our society is the lack of people who can work together. Just sayin'

That is NOT WHAT I SIAD. I said you cannot get ahead just doing enough to get by, and that is true. All of those successful people who dropped out have certainly not done just enough to get by in thier careers. They have neededto put forth MORE effort than a graduate would have to get ahead. They are also much less common than sucessful people who completed school. Teaching kids that you don't need to do homework, it is silly busy work, ect it NOT teaching them to put forth thier best effort, but to do enough to get by. I disagree with the idea that homework is pointless busy work. Iti not true of what i assign, and not true of the assignments my daughter gets. I think many paretns either don't realize the importance or try to downplay it to justify not wanting to do it. Putting forth one's best effort is not just about beating out someone else, but sometimes encompasses working as a team. No one wants to work with the guy who blows off his part of the presentation becuase it is "pointless busy work". In school OR at work.

 

[princessmom29]

I totally agree with you! We also moved here recently actually in June. So this is our 1st year at the FL schools. My boys are in 1st and 3rd. We came from IL which has a great school system. No complaints there. My 3rd grader who has never received anything below an A is in a constant struggle. I have talked to his teacher numerous times, he is now getting tutored before school twice a week but it seems to be causing serious anxiety for him. I'm not sure what else to do. I don't want to add any more pressure but the testing is causing some serious stress in our household!

Have the teachers given you any insight into WHY he is struggling? If he is being tutored, it would seem that there was a skill gap coming in that he is having to play catch up on. Are they giving you any stratigies to use at home to help bridge that gap? I would definitely be asking for more resources to help my child. If it is a skill gap, changing the test structure or testing schedule is NOT going to fix the problem.

 

[DopeyDame]

That is NOT WHAT I SIAD. I said you cannot get ahead just doing enough to get by, and that is true. All of those successful people who dropped out have certainly not done just enough to get by in thier careers. They have neededto put forth MORE effort than a graduate would have to get ahead. They are also much less common than sucessful people who completed school. Teaching kids that you don't need to do homework, it is silly busy work, ect it NOT teaching them to put forth thier best effort, but to do enough to get by. I disagree with the idea that homework is pointless busy work. Iti not true of what i assign, and not true of the assignments my daughter gets. I think many paretns either don't realize the importance or try to downplay it to justify not wanting to do it. Putting forth one's best effort is not just about beating out someone else, but sometimes encompasses working as a team. No one wants to work with the guy who blows off his part of the presentation becuase it is "pointless busy work". In school OR at work.

It sounds like you are a very thoughtful teacher who puts in a lot of effort to help her students learn. However, to say that homework itself somehow equals putting forth a best effort is a leap that many people aren't comfortable making.
I ABSOLUTELY believe we should challenge and push our kids further than we typically do. I see many schools dumbing down curriculum and lowering expectations, especially in elementary schools, and it's heart breaking. (While at the same time expecting more and more kids to achieve honors/AP level work... something fishy is going on there... but that's a different thread.)

However, that doesn't translate into homework being a necessity for all kids all the time, or even an inherently useful thing. Take a 10 problem math worksheet. For the more advanced kids in the class, they understood and mastered the concept when it was taught that day in school (or, more likely, months or years ago on their own). For those kids, it is busy work, and worse - it actually teaches them that you don't actually have to put forth your best effort to succeed - mindlessly doing math worksheets in front of the TV is OK and you'll still get an A.

For the average kids, it is useufl repetition to practice and drive home skills - awesome!

For the slower kids, they are still struggling with the concepts, so expecting them to do it at home on their own, without teacher guidance, is busy work, and frustrating, upsetting busy work at that.

So, for several kids in the classroom, that math worksheet - that is on the surface valuable and needed practice to master what was taught that day - is, in fact, busy work and probably causing more harm than good.

Hopefully, in your class, homework is differentiated and each kid is getting meaningful work in the appropriate amount for their skill level. But surely you can understand how many, many, many times homework becomes a negative, not a positive.

Given that, contending that parents who think their kids have too much (or inappropriate) homwork are somehow lowering standards or not wanting the best for their kids is really over-simplifying and dismisive.

 

[kamgen]

I do not believe ALL home work is bad and just busy work...but there is really no reason for the amount.

 

[angwill]

There are so many studies and articles showing both sides of the homework debate. I guarantee you that in a classroom with a lot or a little homework and ones without any there will be children who both succeed and fail in what they go on to do as adults. There will be ones who blow off their work taking the easy way out as well as there will be the hardest workers. Some of it is personality and ability as well. It is the way the world works in America and in other countries. We are all different and that is what makes life interesting. The end all be all of how children turn out as adults has very little to do with how much homework they get in school is or how hard they were pushed in sports. Besides, if every child is given tons of homework and all of them miraculously become geniuses because of it the world still needs workers at the fast food restaurants, garbage men/women, people to ring up our groceries just as much as we need teachers, police personel, doctors etc. Nobody in this world is any more important in this world than anyone else. Homework is only a small little portion of what makes a person who they choose to become.

 

[princessmom29]

It sounds like you are a very thoughtful teacher who puts in a lot of effort to help her students learn. However, to say that homework itself somehow equals putting forth a best effort is a leap that many people aren't comfortable making.
I ABSOLUTELY believe we should challenge and push our kids further than we typically do. I see many schools dumbing down curriculum and lowering expectations, especially in elementary schools, and it's heart breaking. (While at the same time expecting more and more kids to achieve honors/AP level work... something fishy is going on there... but that's a different thread.)

However, that doesn't translate into homework being a necessity for all kids all the time, or even an inherently useful thing. Take a 10 problem math worksheet. For the more advanced kids in the class, they understood and mastered the concept when it was taught that day in school (or, more likely, months or years ago on their own). For those kids, it is busy work, and worse - it actually teaches them that you don't actually have to put forth your best effort to succeed - mindlessly doing math worksheets in front of the TV is OK and you'll still get an A.

For the average kids, it is useufl repetition to practice and drive home skills - awesome!

For the slower kids, they are still struggling with the concepts, so expecting them to do it at home on their own, without teacher guidance, is busy work, and frustrating, upsetting busy work at that.

So, for several kids in the classroom, that math worksheet - that is on the surface valuable and needed practice to master what was taught that day - is, in fact, busy work and probably causing more harm than good.

Hopefully, in your class, homework is differentiated and each kid is getting meaningful work in the appropriate amount for their skill level. But surely you can understand how many, many, many times homework becomes a negative, not a positive.

Given that, contending that parents who think their kids have too much (or inappropriate) homwork are somehow lowering standards or not wanting the best for their kids is really over-simplifying and dismisive.

I am not saying that homework necessairly equates with best effort, or that every child gets exactly the same thing out of doing it. What I am saying is that blowing off ALL homework as unnecessary is NOT putting fortha best effort. I typically assign homework in a fulid fashion. I am in high school so these kids can have more control over what is going on.Most of the time it works something like this: I ask them to ATTEMPT a set of problems at home. They do not have to be perfect, but they should be able to tell me where they have problems when they come back to class. We can then address those issues and complete the work. Iti s not something I intend to take up and grade with no feeback, but a tool to help them better grasp the concept, and figue out what they just do not understand and need further help with. I don't have a problem with questioning the amount or content of a homework assignment, just the idea that ALL homework is unnecessary busy work. I said several times that any more than 30 min per night is, IMO, excessive in elementary school. High schoolers I think that number is more like an hour total. By the nature of high school scheuling however, there WILL be nights when the load is larger, and nights when there is no homework. All 6 or 7 teachers are not gonig to stay completely on scheule. It just isn't feseable to expect them to coordinate what night they are making assignments.

 

[princessmom29]

I do not believe ALL home work is bad and just busy work...but there is really no reason for the amount.

I saw your discription of a typical homework week earlier. It is pretty similar to what we are asked ot do weekly, except we have double the number of spelling words, and daily math and gammar rather than just 3 times a week. That amount of work takes us 15-30 min per night to complete. If I understand correctly, you are saying that is too much homework for a 1st grader? How much would be ok? 5 min per night?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I saw your discription of a typical homework week earlier. It is pretty similar to what we are asked ot do weekly, except we have double the number of spelling words, and daily math and gammar rather than just 3 times a week. That amount of work takes us 15-30 min per night to complete. If I understand correctly, you are saying that is too much homework for a 1st grader? How much would be ok? 5 min per night?

I have heard the number floating around that is "ok" is 10 minutes per grade.
So in many circles, 15-30 would be too much for a 1st grader.

http://school.familyeducation.com/standards/homework/41271.html

Giving students an excessive amount of homework in the early grades can turn them away from learning. It also robs young children of a chance to do other activities after doing six or more hours of academic work in the classroom. It is only when children reach sixth grade that the amount of homework that they do is directly related to how well they achieve in school. Before then, the effect of homework on achievement is almost nonexistent.

http://today.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html

Cooper said the research is consistent with the "10-minute rule" suggesting the optimum amount of homework that teachers ought to assign. The "10-minute rule," Cooper said, is a commonly accepted practice in which teachers add 10 minutes of homework as students progress one grade. In other words, a fourth-grader would be assigned 40 minutes of homework a night, while a high school senior would be assigned about two hours. For upper high school students, after about two hours' worth, more homework was not associated with higher achievement.

Now of course, one might consider that some students may take longer and some less...but I think the goal is the average time should be 10 minutes per grade and I have no idea if that includes reading time.

Of course at this point, I can't remember what grade the OP's child is in at the moment.