Public school system- not happy

[golfgal]

Oh, absolutely, but in life, unlike in football, there are degrees of winning and losing, and in most life situations that do not involve direct one-on-one competition for a job or a life partner, no one HAS to lose in order for someone else to win. It doesn't need to be either/or.

The idea behind NCLB was to try to give every kid in the country the opportunity to live up to his own intellectual potential by forcing schools to look critically at outcomes. Obviously, in practice it has completely failed to do that because of the overly simplistic way that it is implemented, but there is a tiny kernel of sense there: I don't at all expect equality of outcomes, but there *is* value in setting goals and trying to reach them.

I think it is ridiculous in an education context to try to impose a one-size fits all methodology, and to penalize teachers for failing to reach the set goals for student perfomance, but I don't think it's all that far out there to penalize them to failing to try. (And believe me, I've seen administrators and teachers that have completely given up on trying. It doesn't make them bad people, but IMO, it does mean that those in that position need to look at finding another line of work.)

If that were REALLY what NCLB was doing it would be FANTASTIC, but it is NOT. NCLB expects every child to get to the same level of proficiency and that is just impossible. Some people are just smarter than others, some kids have various conditions that prevent this from happening, etc. They expect the severely disabled student that can't even feed himself and the class valedictorian to have the same progress. THAT is what is wrong with NCLB.

NCLB doesn't measure individual student progress, it measures how one class did compared to the class before them. They don't track kids from kindergarten through 12th grade to see what individual progress is made, not even close.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well, I'm still confused.

The OP is complaining about six tests weekly in first grade and blaming that on NCLB. It's been pretty well established that (a) NCLB testing doesn't start until fourth grade and (b) there aren't six subjects taught in first grade.

 

[luvmy3]

Well, I'm still confused.

The OP is complaining about six tests weekly in first grade and blaming that on NCLB. It's been pretty well established that (a) NCLB testing doesn't start until fourth grade and (b) there aren't six subjects taught in first grade.

Testing starts here in 3rd.

6 subjects in 1st
math
science
spelling
reading
ELA
social studies

Not saying that those weekly tests have anything to do with NCLB, but there are definitely 6 subjects that a 1st grader can be tested on on a weekly basis. Granted, ELA, reading and spelling can all fall under ELA they can still be tested individually.

 

[Bilberry]

It was years ago, but recall when moving from California to Florida as a child, I was about a year behind in what was being taught in Florida schools. It took a lot of catch up with my classmates I recall. And lots and lots of tests where given compared to what I was used to in California.

You might see if there is a charter school in the area that your kids can attend. Testing can be different and personalized there. Thought this article from yesterday a nice description of how they work, and different requirements they have compared to 100% government schools.

"Why Charter Schools Are the True 'Purple' Solution to Public Education"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...are-true-purple-solution-to-public-education/

 

[HelenePA]

Testing starts here in 3rd.

6 subjects in 1st
math
science
spelling
reading
ELA
social studies

Not saying that those weekly tests have anything to do with NCLB, but there are definitely 6 subjects that a 1st grader can be tested on on a weekly basis. Granted, ELA, reading and spelling can all fall under ELA they can still be tested individually.

Here is what my 1st grader has as subjects... and extra classes (the fun ones)

Art, Gym, Handwriting, Computers, Language Arts, Library, Math, Music, Phonics, Reading and Spelling

ETA Social Studies starts in 2nd grade and Science in 3rd here

 

[luvmy3]

Here is what my 1st grader has as subjects... and extra classes (the fun ones)

Art, Gym, Handwriting, Computers, Language Arts, Library, Math, Music, Phonics, Reading and Spelling

ETA Social Studies starts in 2nd grade and Science in 3rd here

Our 1st graders aren't tested in Art, computer, or library although they do take those specials (thats what hey are referred to here)

I cam back to this thread because we just got a letter sent home stating that our grading system for students 3-5 will be changing. Instead of letter grades, the students will be receiving number grades as in 1-4 in order to show where the student is according to state standards.
I so disagree with this type of grading system, I want to know whether or not my child is producing A work, not whether NYS thinks they are doing good enough Its true, I will know exactly what they are doing since I see all of their work, I just don't like that the kids grades are not a true reflection of their performance, but a comparison of what the state thinks they should know. Also, if a kid is borderline a 4 and another exceeds level 4 standards, their grades will be the same.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

My daughter (1st grade) gets 1 "formal" test a week and that's her spelling test. When she finishes her math unit (usually about a month) she gets a math test. She also has MAP testing which is like a standardized test that she takes in the beginning of the year and then at the end. In 3rd grade she will begin with the crazy state testing.
She does get about 30 minutes of homework a night and 2 nights a week she brings home guided and shared reading that she has to read to me.
I think her school at this grade level is more into informal assessment, as she brings home TONS of classwork each day that the teacher checks.
I'm very pleased so far with DD's school.

 

[Coconut36]

If that were REALLY what NCLB was doing it would be FANTASTIC, but it is NOT. NCLB expects every child to get to the same level of proficiency and that is just impossible. Some people are just smarter than others, some kids have various conditions that prevent this from happening, etc. They expect the severely disabled student that can't even feed himself and the class valedictorian to have the same progress. THAT is what is wrong with NCLB.

NCLB doesn't measure individual student progress, it measures how one class did compared to the class before them. They don't track kids from kindergarten through 12th grade to see what individual progress is made, not even close.

The bold is so true and so many people do not realize this. They don't realize that a kid who has physical or developmental disabilities is figured into those scores and held to the same bar as the kid who is in gifted classes and all the kids in between are all held to the exact same bar and that just isn't right.

 

[RadioNate]

Testing starts here in 3rd.

6 subjects in 1st
math
science
spelling
reading
ELA
social studies

Not saying that those weekly tests have anything to do with NCLB, but there are definitely 6 subjects that a 1st grader can be tested on on a weekly basis. Granted, ELA, reading and spelling can all fall under ELA they can still be tested individually.

I see from your next post you are in NY. In Florida, where the OP is, 1st Grade is only graded on Math, Language Arts and Reading. I have a 1st grade report card here. They DO get Science and Social Studies grades however those are integrated subjects. For example if they read a story on George Washington and get an A on the test...that grade counts for reading and social studies. In our former FL district, 1st grade doesn't get A/B/C/D/F letter grades, just satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

Since Florida operates from a state-wide curriculum (Sunshine State Standards) I would expect that the OPs school would be similar.

I have the 3rd Grade FCAT here too. They only test on reading and math. I think the next one adds science.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

Okay, so I dont want to rant and rave, but I am so unhappy right now. I will sum it up by saying that we moved down to FL almost 2yr ago and have elementary age kids. We did not realize how unhappy we would be with the public school system. It is like they took the No Child Left Behind initiative and went nuts. My first grader takes 6 tests a week, every week. I will just say, I am not a fan of standardized testing and the extremes.
Any thoughts or experiences with other states public school systems??
Thanks, just wanting to vent and share info.

This is not he fault of the school system it is a direct result of NCLB. Schools have no choice but to provide DATA in every shape and form. Believe me it is now a matter of making sure your numbers are high enough or the state comes in and takes over the school system And that is much worse. If you have a problem look to NCLB not the school system and write to your legislators and tell them to get rid of NCLB.

 

[HelenePA]

The bold is so true and so many people do not realize this. They don't realize that a kid who has physical or developmental disabilities is figured into those scores and held to the same bar as the kid who is in gifted classes and all the kids in between are all held to the exact same bar and that just isn't right.

NOPE!! You are wrong!!! My dd 11 is in a lifeskills class and had to do the state testing last year... she had a totally different test than others in the same grade as her TOTALLY WRONG!!! TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

 

[torinsmom]

What gets me about the charter and magnet push lately (at least around here) is that we've made so many laws emphasizing testing, eliminating grouping kids by ability, stripping ability to discipline or suspend/expel problem students, mandating money be spent on impossible tasks, etc. that we've cut funding and time spent on electives, gym, art, music and anything that remotely involves creativity. Now, we're opening all these charter schools that are so great because they are allowed to do everything the traditional public schools are no longer permitted to. Why doesn't anyone see this irony.

The charter school I taught at still had to do EOG testing. It was a Montessori charter school and I loved the individualized instruction.

The school I teach at now is a Montessori magnet school and I can assure you that we have the same testing requirements as any other public school in our district. It has gotten so bad lately that it is very hard to keep any part of authentic Montessori in the lower and upper elementary classrooms.

Both schools have art, music and PE. The charter school has Spanish in addition to these and the magnet school has media.

A friend of mine, who is a teacher, posted this on Facebook this week:

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND---The Football Version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs and all MUST win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable. If after two years they have not won the championship, their footballs and equipment will be taken away UNTIL they do win the championship.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time even if they do not have the same conditions or opportunities to practice on their own. NO exceptions will be made for lack of interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities of themselves or their parents. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL!

3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability, or whose parents don't like football.

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games.

5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.

LOL

I agree completely. In addition, even though they are exempt from most of these requirements the data doesn't support the idea that they are better than standard public schools.

As for saying people have choice to send their kids to private school or to homeschool, that certainly reeks of priviledge.

All private schools I know of have scholarships available. In addition, when someone wants something bad enough, they can make it happen. I was home with my son for his first 4 years only because I took care of another family's children all day and did a paper route every night. I would do the same again if I really felt home schooling would be better for my son. Charter schools are free; you just have to search them out and apply.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

NOPE!! You are wrong!!! My dd 11 is in a lifeskills class and had to do the state testing last year... she had a totally different test than others in the same grade as her TOTALLY WRONG!!! TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

Maybe for Pennsylvania. But is that a fact for other states for you to proclaim in all caps that it is totally wrong?

And what do you mean by "totally different"? I don't mean to pry into why your child needs a different test...

But one child who is 6th grade age by developmentally disabled and has 2nd grade skills...would their different test be "2nd grade" level to see if he/she is progressing commensurate to their ability? Is that what you mean?

Or do you mean that it is physically different AND the score is not averaged in?

I'm not trying to be snotty--I just really don't know what you mean and since the OP is in Florida and since teachers seem to state that there are cases where a delayed child takes the same test....I just don't see how you can proclaim the statement to be totally wrong. (And if I am to understand, your daughter has severe issues due to a car wreck she was in as a baby that injured her brain. Correct? Special needs extends across an entire spectrum and perhaps in extreme cases, they may provide a different test. But in non-extreme cases where learning is affected, but not to the point of being in life skills classes (again no disrespect intended), perhaps those children take the same test.

Back to the dance mom that I knew who was a teacher--she had a student one year, who was not on par with the rest of the class. Very deficient due to some issue. He was mainstreamed. It is probably that by the time 3rd grade rolls around, that he would not get a special FCAT for his abilities. He would take the 3rd grade level, and do poorly. Maybe later he would not have to take the FCAT. But as long as he is mainstreamed...

 

[Goofyluver]

NOPE!! You are wrong!!! My dd 11 is in a lifeskills class and had to do the state testing last year... she had a totally different test than others in the same grade as her TOTALLY WRONG!!! TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

She's not wrong. Not all states offer alternative assessments for students with disabilities.

My previous state of residence (New Mexico) had no alternative assessment for special education students.

My current state of residence (Texas) has changed state assessments this year. Previous to this year, the TAKS test was offered in modified and accomodated versions for students needing test modifications and accomodations. This year, the new state assessment has no alternate or modified versions thus far. At this point, there is only one assessment being offered for students, regardless of ability level.

 

[torinsmom]

She's not wrong. Not all states offer alternative assessments for students with disabilities.

My previous state of residence (New Mexico) had no alternative assessment for special education students.

My current state of residence (Texas) has changed state assessments this year. Previous to this year, the TAKS test was offered in modified and accomodated versions for students needing test modifications and accomodations. This year, the new state assessment has no alternate or modified versions thus far. At this point, there is only one assessment being offered for students, regardless of ability level.

Kids at my school(NC) who are developmentally delayed have to take the state test for their grade level, not matter how much they are delayed. They are expected to pass

 

[HelenePA]

Oh lordy I dont even know how to describe my dd's problems in learning, her memory just plain old sucks for math and spelling but pick out one of her toys and she can tell you where something was bought, who bought it how much it was, where it is now, what holiday she got it for.. let me first say she is very well behaved.. there is no cursing, throwing stuff, biting, spitting going on with her, she looks "normal", she also is my "finder" if I put something some place and dont remember where I ask her, go figure.. my dd's state test was video taped and scored that way. I do not think there was much of a written part. I have no idea what was "on the test" since I wasn't there. The test was physically different and scores are NOT averaged in. They are told to us as different school scores. My dd was on ability for her problems in all but one area she needed prompting with one section (I dont remember what it was I'll have to look for the scores later.. they are in one of the thousands of piles of papers I have here) FL might be different but in PA lifeskills classes do NOT count as part of the reg school average.

 

[Goofyluver]

Kids at my school(NC) who are developmentally delayed have to take the state test for their grade level, not matter how much they are delayed. They are expected to pass

That's how it was in my previous district. And that's how it is in my current one.

 

[HelenePA]

She's not wrong.

She is not right either. I know for a fact.. I'm living it everyday are you?

 

[Goofyluver]

She is not right either. I know for a fact.. I'm living it everyday are you?

In many ways, Helene. In many ways.

Whether a student receives special education services or not, and whether a student is on an alternative assessment track or not, progress must still be reported yearly. Those students are also required to meet AYP. And when those students fail, either because there is no alternative assessment for them, or because they are unable to pass the state assessment, or because they don't test well, or because it was too windy that day, that is a ding on the district.

 

[princessmom29]

Oh lordy I dont even know how to describe my dd's problems in learning, her memory just plain old sucks for math and spelling but pick out one of her toys and she can tell you where something was bought, who bought it how much it was, where it is now, what holiday she got it for.. let me first say she is very well behaved.. there is no cursing, throwing stuff, biting, spitting going on with her, she looks "normal", she also is my "finder" if I put something some place and dont remember where I ask her, go figure.. my dd's state test was video taped and scored that way. I do not think there was much of a written part. I have no idea what was "on the test" since I wasn't there. The test was physically different and scores are NOT averaged in. They are told to us as different school scores. My dd was on ability for her problems in all but one area she needed prompting with one section (I dont remember what it was I'll have to look for the scores later.. they are in one of the thousands of piles of papers I have here) FL might be different but in PA lifeskills classes do NOT count as part of the reg school average.

AS I understand the federal law, special education students are required to be counted in the overall score. There is a different standard for them as a subgroup, but thier scores are supposed to count toward the school as a whole, even those on a lifeskills class. I don't know how your school is getting around this because we have to count everyone, no matter how profoundly disabled.