Pros and Cons of a Hybrid

Sthronds

<font color=blue>I can't make pancakes. It's just
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Feb 4, 2005
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Ok all you Hybrid owners. The family is trying to talk my dad into getting a hybrid since he drives so much for his job. He is a little worried about them and I thought I would turn to you all for help. Can you let me know what you like and what the benefits are :cool1: and can you let me know the negatives as well :furious: . Also if anyone knows anything about the tax credit and if it applies to leasing that would be great too. I love my Dis experts! :love: (yeah, I'm trying to butter ya'll up!) :rolleyes1
 
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Buying a hybrid will save you money on gas...but you might still come out behind.


One of two main reasons, according to a recent analysis by Consumer Reports, is an additional cost that has typically been treated as an unknown: depreciation. Another factor, the report found, is purchase price -- hybrids simply have higher sticker prices than their non-hybrid counterparts, and gas savings don't do nearly enough to close the gap.


According to Consumer Reports' analysis of six hybrid gasoline/electric vehicles, they will lose 2 percent to 3 percent more in value over five years of ownership than otherwise identical non-hybrid vehicles.


With the purchase price difference, depreciation and other costs like financing and insurance factored in, only the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid would save owners any money -- $406 and $317, respectively, over 5 years. That final figure includes the impact of a federal tax incentives for hybrids. Without those incentives, Prius buyers face a net cost of ownership of $2,700 more than Corolla buyers.


Other hybrid vehicles would cost owners thousands more than non-hybrids over five years of ownership, even after federal tax credits.


For example, a Toyota Highlander Hybrid costs $7,185 more to purchase than the non-hybrid version. That results in $558 more in sales tax and $2,653 more in financing costs. It also will cost $358 more to insure for five years and $12 more in repair and maintenance costs. In addition, the hybrid will also lose 3.9 percent more in value than the non-hybrid.


The Highlander Hybrid will save you about $1,392 in gasoline over that time. So, even with a $2,200 federal tax credit in your bank account, the Highlander Hybrid will ultimately cost you $5,508 more after five years than a similarly-equipped non-hybrid Highlander.


Figures originally published in Consumer Reports magazine on March 1 showed the cost gap being much larger and none of the hybrid vehicles saving owners any money. A correction posted to the magazine's Website Wednesday morning adjusted for a miscalculation in the rate of depreciation. The corrected figures narrow the gap, but all the hybrid vehices still depreciate at a faster rate than non-hybrids, according to the magazine.
Depreciation debate
Depreciation is a major factor in Consumer Reports' analysis. But, experts say, it's difficult to accurately predict depreciation since few mainstream-targeted hybrid vehicles have entered the used car market.


Hybrid supporter and Prius owner James Bell, publisher of the automotive guide IntelliChoice, recently sold his two-year-old Prius for just $4,000 less than he originally paid for it -- a remarkably low rate of depreciation


Even Bell acknowledges, however, his experience isn't a perfect indicator. Unlike most hybrids, the Prius is a uniquely designed vehicle that exists only as a hybrid. There are still waiting lists for new Priuses at dealerships, so some impatient buyers will look for used ones instead.


And even for the Prius, some experts are saying that, because of hybrid cars' technical complexity and additional costs, used car buyers will become wary of them in years to come.


Still, Bell thinks hybrid cars will hold their value at least as well as, if not better than, regular, non-hybrid vehicles. "We don't see any reason at this point to think that a hybrid is going to track along as an outstanding value and then suddenly crash," he said. In spite of increased production, hybrid systems will likely remain rare enough to command a premium among used car buyers, Bell said.


Nonetheless, there may be more effective ways to save on gas than buying a hybrid. Buying a smaller car, for example, or just getting a smaller engine. "Hybrids are kind of a luxury item," points out Jeff Bliskell, who wrote the feature for Consumer Reports.


Some luxury items that provide a tangible benefit, like heated seats, generally add to a vehicle's resale value. Whether a hybrid powertrain provides a real benefit, and will add to the car's value, will depend on a potential buyer's feelings about the social and environmental impact of fuel consumption.


Raj Sunderam, president of Automotive Lease Guide, a company that predicts residual values of cars for the purpose of calculating lease terms, also sees hybrid cars possibly losing value faster than non-hybrids.


"We would agree with Consumer Reports that this is an area of caution," he said.


But among the unknowns, Sunderam said, is long-term durability. "There's no track record of how they hold up after 80,000 or 100,000 miles," said Sunderam.


As the number of hybrid vehicles available increases, that could also drive used hybrid prices lower. But it could also increase familiarity with the systems and ease potential used car buyers concerns about getting the car serviced, said Sunderam.


Still, said Sunderam, given the issues surrounding hybrid vehicles, the prudent course is to assume they will lose value faster than non-hybrid cars. It will be up to future used car buyers to prove that assumption wrong.
 
Review: 2006 GMC Sierra1500 Hybrid
By ERIC PETERS


A hybrid truck like the full-size GMC Sierra 1500 (and its sister truck, the Chevy Silverado 1500) may be the best hybrid vehicle of all.


Or at least, one of the most sensible hybrid vehicles.


Large trucks, after all, consume a lot more fuel than a compact or mid-size passenger car -- the typical "platform" for a hybrid gas-electric powertrain up to now. Anything that makes a guzzleosaurus full-size truck reasonably efficient (which most compact and mid-sized passenger cars already are, even before fitting them with a hybrid powertrain) is arguably a serious improvement. It's a matter of going from awful to OK -- vs. already OK to even better for a compact/mid-sized passenger car hybrid.


The hybrid Sierra 1500 can tickle 20 mpg on the highway and 17-18 mpg around town -- excellent economy from a full-size extended cab 4x4 pickup, especially one packing a 295-hp, 5.3 liter V-8. These figures represent a mileage improvement of about 10 percent overall compared to a non-hybrid 1500 with the 5.3 liter Vortec V-8. GMC claims the Sierra hybrid (and the basically identical Chevy Silverado 1500 hybrid) offer the best in-town fuel efficiency of any large pickups currently available.


Hybrid trucks like the Sierra 1500 are also still fully capable, no-compromises trucks -- able to do the same work their non-hybrid equivalents can. That includes being able to tow 7,700lbs. and tackle off-road driving/hard use. (The same heavy-duty suspension package offered on non-hybrid 1500s is also available with the hybrid powertrain). Passenger car hybrids are fragile things -- and most of them are compromised in some way, sacrificing performance on the altar of economy.


Not so for the Sierra 1500 hybrid


In fact, you can do more work with the hybrid version of the 1500 than you could with the standard model -- thanks to the bonus of a 2,400-watt built-in generator (and integral starter) that's included with the package. This generator/starter combo can provide 20 amps of 120 volt current through outlets inside the cab and in the bed -- enough juice to run a circular saw at a job site or function as an emergency source of power to run essential home appliances during a blackout. You'll still be able to catch the game -- and/or keep the stuff in you fridge from spoiling.


And you can run your TV (or fridge or whatever) for up to 32 hours nonstop on a single tank of gas. Put a fitted cap on the bed with some skylights, perhaps -- and maybe some deep pile rugs, a mini-fridge/wet bar -- and you'd have a mobile party wagon infinitely more accommodating than your old Astro Turf-lined mid-'80s GMC Caballero. Take it camping -- and take all the amenities of home along for the ride.


The other function of the generator/starter is to automatically cycle the powertrain from pure battery power (when the vehicle is stopped or idling) to internal combustion (when the vehicle is moving). This happens almost imperceptibly -- with dead silence your only clue that the gas engine has been turned off. The 42-volt lead-acid battery pack kicks in to keep accessories like the radio and air conditioner working while the gas engine isn't. When the engine's on, the starter/generator is recharging the batteries for the next cycle. And so on.


This truck is what's known in the biz as a "mild hybrid" -- because it does not actually drive on pure electric power (as, for example, the Toyota Prius and some others do) or use the onboard batteries to "goose" the performance of the gas engine under hard acceleration. The idea is to save energy by keeping the engine from burning up gasoline at idle -- whether sitting at a light or just sitting there by the road while you make a cell phone call. If you think about it, many of us spend a whole lot of time in our vehicles not going anyplace at all. That's a lot of wasted fuel -- and a lot of foulness (everything from unburned hydrocarbons to planet-warming carbon dioxide gas) pouring out of our tailpipes into the sky for no good reason. The hybrid cuts down considerably on this needless waste -- without inconveniencing us or even asking us to do without AC for a couple of minutes (as you'd have to if you were to just shut off the engine in a regular car or truck).


The other nice thing about hybrid trucks -- or at least, this hybrid truck -- is that they are relatively inexpensive. Unlike the typical passenger car hybrid -- which can cost several thousand dollars more than its non-hybrid equivalent -- GMC asks just $1,500 for the hybrid gear, in addition to the cost of the truck itself. My tester -- a Sierra extended cab with the SLE2 package that included the 5.3 Vortec V-8, automatic transmission, dual zone AC, Autotrac electronic 4x4 transfer case, Bose premium audio with XM radio and leather trim, etc., -- carried an MSRP of $34,690. The additional cost of the hybrid equipment relative to the vehicle cost is comparable to ordering a sunroof or wheel/tire package. No big deal, really!


As some critics have observed, it will probably take years (assuming gas doesn't spike up to $5 per gallon) to amortize the higher purchase price (typically several thousand dollars higher than the equivalent non-hybrid) of a hybrid passenger car -- perhaps longer than the typical buyer might even keep the thing. But it's not going to take nearly as long to get back $1,500 in lower gas bills driving a full-size truck that's 10 percent more efficient than it would otherwise be -- especially if you do a lot of stop-and-go-type driving, where the hybrid is most efficient.


You also get the psychic benefit of driving a lower-emissions vehicle -- since the Sierra produces no harmful pollution when it is "idling" on a battery power alone.


So it's pretty much a have your cake and eat it too situation. (The hybrid-specific components even have their own separate -- and extended -- eight-year/100,000 mile warranty.)


If there's any downside to this truck, it's only that an even nicer one is waiting in the wings -- due sometime later next year as an '07 model. The next-generation Sierra (and Chevy Silverado) will be based on the architecture of the 2007 Chevy Tahoe (and shared-platform GMC Denali and Cadillac Escalade SUVs), which comes out in early 2006. I've driven the '07 Tahoe and it is an impressive piece of work -- from its coil-over shock/aluminum control arms to its Land Rover-level interior. It will be worth the wait -- or go ahead and get a great deal on an '06 while there are still plenty available to choose from (and very likely, some mighty tempting incentive offers).


Either way, you'll drive home happy -- and be using a bit less gas than your buddies while keeping your six packs cold and your power tools humming.
 
I am not an hybrid owner yet. We are looking into it also. Making money on a car is not in the thought proccess as far as resale value goes. We drive our cars until they are paid off & then until the repairs are too much.

DH & I spend more money on alot of things that are enviromentally friendly & consider it a gift to our children & grandchildren.
 

We own a Prius and enjoy it. Our particular car has had a lot of problems, but they have been repaired without cost. The only thing which we have not been able to get fixed is the alarm going off all the time. But, we also had that problem with the Camry we had before the Prius. I guess it is just a Toyota problem.
Even though you may not come out ahead because of the initial cost as far as gas milage, it sure is a pleasure to get 40 plus miles per gallon. We get about 44 mpg, but do a lot of short trips. If you drive on longer trips, I know you will get better milage than that, because the few times we have driven on longer trips on the same tank of gas, we have averaged a higher mpg.
Also, realize that you are doing something for the environment by driving a hybrid.
We are planning on getting another Prius to replace the one we have in about one more year.
 
DH drives a 2006 Prius.

Paid cash for it, drive it a ton of miles, and will get the tax credit, so much of the CR article doesn't apply.

He's already got 20,000 miles on it, since last July. He averages about 43 mpg.

We will replace it at or just before 100,000 miles--which means three years from now or so.

In gas savings alone it was well worth the investment.

The two primary motivations behind it were for a car that burns less fossil fuel, and the ability to drive in the HOV lanes alone. (He drives back and forth NJ to FL every month, and that can be a huge time saver around DC during rush hour.) BTW--the reason he doesn't take public transit and fly to FL is that he volunteers for a couple organizations doing transport of animals from shelters to their new forever homes in other states on many of his runs. :goodvibes

So far knock wood it has been perfect. It's roomy, comfrortable to drive, and he loves the GPS and other bells and whistles.

Oh, and it's a really pretty blue color. :crazy:

Anne
 
MAKmom said:
I am not an hybrid owner yet. We are looking into it also. Making money on a car is not in the thought proccess as far as resale value goes. We drive our cars until they are paid off & then until the repairs are too much.

DH & I spend more money on alot of things that are enviromentally friendly & consider it a gift to our children & grandchildren.

It will cost you thousands of dollars to replace the batteries in the car if you keep it much longer than the time that it takes to pay it off. And I wonder what kind of problem that we are creating for our children & grandchildren in regards to disposal of all those batteries.

If you want to save the environment (and gasoline), avoid vehicles with automatic transmissions, make sure that your tires are properly inflated, slow down, and take public transportation whenever possible.

I used to think that hybrids were a great idea until I looked beyond the hype and realized that they aren't the solution that the automakers and media make them out to be.
 
DH and I have been thinking about getting a hybrid for our next auto. However, we are waffling because the hybrids have higher maintenance costs and the fuel savings aren't that great when compared with fuel efficient gas-only automobiles.

For instance, DH and I recently saw an ad for a hybrid small SUV (can't remember which one). Our jaws dropped when the ad mentioned the fuel usage and it was only slightly better than our less expensive Subaru Forrester. Why pay thousands more to purchase a car that will only save a few bucks in fuel costs each year?
 
Towncrier said:
It will cost you thousands of dollars to replace the batteries in the car if you keep it much longer than the time that it takes to pay it off. And I wonder what kind of problem that we are creating for our children & grandchildren in regards to disposal of all those batteries.

If you want to save the environment (and gasoline), avoid vehicles with automatic transmissions, make sure that your tires are properly inflated, slow down, and take public transportation whenever possible.

I used to think that hybrids were a great idea until I looked beyond the hype and realized that they aren't the solution that the automakers and media make them out to be.

This is one of the reasons we have not purchased yet. We are still in the investigation stage. The batteries concern me & I need to find out how true this is.

I will never be able to drive stick. I tried as a young girl & now I am old with artritis. I just can not do it.

I do not do much driving, compared to most I only put maybe 10,000 miles a year on a car. If I did'nt have to work I would never leave my house.
 
I am no expert but I saw read on edmunds.com where gas would need to be around $5.00 per gallon before you would break even on a hybrid.
 
drakethib said:
I am no expert but I saw read on edmunds.com where gas would need to be around $5.00 per gallon before you would break even on a hybrid.

Based on what milage every year?

Like I said, my DH has put 20K miles on his Prius since we picked it up 6/30/06. Between tax credits and better milage, we'll break even before we replace it in three years or so. But I'll admit, we aren't typical.

Anne
 
We just got DS a regular Civic. DW is driving it now and gets almost 40 mpg. Think I'll wait for fuel cells and skip the hybrids.
 
ducklite said:
BTW--the reason he doesn't take public transit and fly to FL is that he volunteers for a couple organizations doing transport of animals from shelters to their new forever homes in other states on many of his runs. :goodvibes

Anne

Slightly veering off topic here for a sec but I just wanted to give your DH a big :thumbsup2 from us for doing such a great thing for animals. :)
 












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