Proper Etiquette for moving out timeframe

[Imzadi]

But none of the relationship difficulties have anything to do with your question and what money you owe her. . .

All the "but she threw my food away and didn't welcome my boyfriend" is just hissy personality fights. All you're trying to do is prove to us that she was a bad roommate. Okay. So she was a bad roommate, you don't need to convince us of that.

And in one fell swoop, the OP let us know what kind of CHARACTER she has. She is emotionally immature and will use this situation to justify not doing the right thing. Character doesn't need paper to enforce the right actions. The paperwork is for those, like the OP, who would find and justify getting out of doing the right thing regardless what the other person has done.

At the very least, she owes a full 30 days notice. And should pay for it. It is a required minimum on written leases, and if taken to court, probably will be found to be customary on on oral lease.

Unless your friend who is a lawyer happens to be a real estate lawyer in NJ, I'd say you got legal advice worth what you paid for it...which was exactly nothing. There IS an agreement here...and it is month to month. Oral contracts are just as binding and just as enforceable as written ones, provided the "meeting of the minds" can be shown. Here, that is SIMPLE. Proof of the agreement is everything that happened the last 18 months. You paid her rent every month. She let you stay every month. Simple. You have a month to month lease, and in the absence of a WRITTEN agreement to the contrary (which you have said there is not), it is terminable on 30 days notice delivered at the beginning of the month (not whatever date you decide). Therefore, there is no question that if push came to shove, you would owe her 100% of September rent. Don't be silly. Give her the 50% she is willing to take. Good grief.

Yes, just because one is a lawyer doesn't mean (s)he is knowledgeable on the real estate laws. They are written down, with all the clauses & exceptions for a reason. There are lawyers who specialize real estate law because of all those ins & outs.

If the OP had also written out rent checks to her roommate and the roommate cashed those checks, then the situation had turned from an oral agreement to a written one.

I don't know the law in NJ, but in NYC, if the person on the lease brings in a roommate, but does not add that person to the lease, and that person starts writing checks directly to the landlord and the landlord accepts & cashes the checks, by law, he has acknowledged that roommate is accepting that person as a legal tenant. The roommate can then be added onto the lease at a later date without issue. Or even if he wasn't, later on, if the first person - the only one still written on the lease moves out, the second roommate has a right to take over the lease. Accepting those checks turns any oral agreement into a written one.

If the OP had always paid by cash, then I suppose she could lie and say she was just giving over extra money now & then to help her roommate out as she was staying there. It just happened to be a set amount every month. But, again, she'd be showing her true character.

And apparently, she has a set of friends who support her in being that way. OR, she is simply asking the ones who will agree with her. Doesn't say much for any of them. On this thread, not a single person has said that 3 weeks notice and payment is an okay thing to do, although she might get away with it, without a written contract.

 

[Jennasis]

So, OP, would you be okay if you came home and your friend told you to be out of the house in x number of days (let's assume she is kind and refunds some of your money)?

No. Because legally she can't do that.

Neither can you (just pick up and leave)...at least not "scott free". Pay for the 30 days (till mid September). Theoretically you ARE on the hook for the whole of September, but you may be able to smooth things over and avoid a small claims court suit by at least paying for the 30 days (from the 7th to the 7th).

 

[sunshinehighway]

It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.

I did not want this to go this way, but she is now making it difficult. She was not my only option of living spaces. I had 3 other places, since she was a friend and I had known her I thought ok this can work. Then very soon after moving in I realized this was goign to be a huge issue. I had tried to talk with her several times, but she just didn't get it.

She kept asking why I wanted to leave, she thought I was happy there. Really when I never come home, hardly leave any food in the house because you throw it away and make me feel like I am 5 years old by leaving notes all over the place instead of having an adult conversation like a normal person does?

I tried to make this work, I wanted it too but it just could not.

The straw that broke the camel's back happened last month when my boyfriend of 3 months who had never been to the apartment wanted to come by, (We had been seeing each other for 2 months) I had texted her to let her know he was coming for dinner, She flipped out and said she did not feel comfortable with him coming by. She went into this whole rant that she needs to protect herself and can't believe I gave him our address etc. etc.

Are you kidding me? This is why she has no friends and now that I am moving out she really won't have any. Her mother even said to me when I moved in she was so happy because now she won't be with her all the time and finally go out and enjoy life. I tried on numerous occassions but she never wanted to come out, even just her and I.

It is a shame, but you can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Um, did you mistype in your op when you said you are 34?

 

[Hannathy]

I have been living with a friend from Highschool for the past year and half. She did me a huge favor because at the time I could not afford to have my own place rents were just to high and she was very nice and let me be her roommate for a good price.

So let me get this straight, She did you a "huge favor" and helped you out, giving you a place to live and at less than you would have paid elsewhere AND now you want to repay this "huge favor" -(your words) by screwing her out of a week to a months rent.

Nice.

 

[POPCITY]

Um, did you mistype in your op when you said you are 34?

That was my question, you beat me to it!

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

OP can you let us know when the case will be on Judge Judy. I would like to DVR it.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

OP, I'm sure that you are starting to feel pretty beat up on. I'm going to give you my take on all of this and please take it as nothing more than just my opinion and some words of advice. I am not here to pass judgment on you or on your roommate.

That said, you asked for move out etiquette advice and how much notice you should give. It is customary to give 30 days notice. I have actually seen leases that request 60 and even 90 days notice. Because of this, I believe that Emily Post would agree that you need to give at least 30 days notice. Now, you didn't have that luxury because you did not know yourself that you would be gone in 24 days. However, at least in my opinion, this does not mean that you have a free pass to give her less notice. I can understand where she is coming from in asking you to pay half of September's rent. She was counting on all of that rent and found out in very little time that that money would not be there. It is my opinion that the mature and courteous thing to do in this situation would be to pay half of the rent, be out when you said, and just cut your losses.

 

[Ceila]

OP, pay the amount your current roommate has requested. That is more than fair to you and, IMO, generous on her part. You gave less notice than would have been required if you had been renting from someone with a formal lease agreement.

And if you really don't want people to disagree with you, I suggest not asking the question in the first place.

 

[Tink-aholic]

Let's see it from a different perspective: if she had found another roommate (and you didn't have another place to live), would you want her telling you that you had three weeks to be out?

Grow up and do the right thing. Pay her for the additional time.

 

[zoo2tycoon]

It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.

I did not want this to go this way, but she is now making it difficult. She was not my only option of living spaces. I had 3 other places, since she was a friend and I had known her I thought ok this can work. Then very soon after moving in I realized this was goign to be a huge issue. I had tried to talk with her several times, but she just didn't get it.

She kept asking why I wanted to leave, she thought I was happy there. Really when I never come home, hardly leave any food in the house because you throw it away and make me feel like I am 5 years old by leaving notes all over the place instead of having an adult conversation like a normal person does?

I tried to make this work, I wanted it too but it just could not.

The straw that broke the camel's back happened last month when my boyfriend of 3 months who had never been to the apartment wanted to come by, (We had been seeing each other for 2 months) I had texted her to let her know he was coming for dinner, She flipped out and said she did not feel comfortable with him coming by. She went into this whole rant that she needs to protect herself and can't believe I gave him our address etc. etc.

Are you kidding me? This is why she has no friends and now that I am moving out she really won't have any. Her mother even said to me when I moved in she was so happy because now she won't be with her all the time and finally go out and enjoy life. I tried on numerous occassions but she never wanted to come out, even just her and I.

It is a shame, but you can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Seriously what a joke of a lawyer! Verbal contract is what you had. You have lived with her for EIGHTEEN MONTHS and you don't feel you have a lease. Just because it is NOT WRITTEN doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You had a verbal month-month. You owe her 30 days. Technically she could ask for ALL of September, so she is being nice asking for half only.

You owe her the money, you have gotten poor advice from family, friends and the so-called lawyer.

If I were her I'd be in a couple of weeks when you move out. It sounds like it was a bad situation for HER. Your attitude and slamming of her is immature and not called for.

Pay her or we will see you on Judge Judy, The People's Court, Judge Joe Brown or Judge Mathis!

As others said if you don't want the advice don't ask for it. Your attitude is immature and if I were her I'd say good riddance!!!!

 

[pixiewings71]

Any rental agreement that I have seen has the 30 day notice to be given on the rent due date. If rent is due the first of the month and you give notice on the 10th you still will owe for the next full month.

I worked for an apt complex for many years, we accepted 30 days notice at any time (we did not require a lease) of the month and we would pro-rate the amount of rent due by the number of days left in the month. So, if someone gave notice on 8-7 and moved out by 9-7 and paid $1000 a month in rent we would expect them to pay $233 for the week that was due. I'm still friends with the manager and they still do it the same way. I'm sure other complexes do this differently but this is how it was when I worked there. You absolutely did not owe for a full month if you moved out early. In fact, my BFF just did this, moved out of her apt on 6-14 and only paid for half the rent for June, she paid half the rent for June at her new place as well.

It sounds like there are other issues involved that you didn't list in your OP.

With my DH as a teacher, I do know that the start of the school year is particularly stressful, so I can see where she's coming from.

She is/was a friend and she helped you out when you were down. From a mature point of view, I don't think asking for 2 weeks' rent is out of line. Any other rental company would have required first and last month's rent up front when you moved in, which would have made you pay ALL of September (as you gave notice after the August rent was paid).

Again, not where I am, you do not pay a full month of rent when you move out partially into the month. Man, I don't want to live where you guys do if that's the rule there....

Let's see it from a different perspective: if she had found another roommate (and you didn't have another place to live), would you want her telling you that you had three weeks to be out?

Grow up and do the right thing. Pay her for the additional time.

Good point that no one has brought up yet, makes you think a little bit.

OP I would still leave on the 7th, I would definitely pay through the 7th and it might be a good gesture to consider paying through the 15th. either way, enjoy your new place

 

[Ciao Mickey]

She did you a *huge* favor and now you want to stick it to her?

Thirty days, not 3 weeks, is what you have to give when you move out and even though you are not on the lease, you are still responsible for whatever rent you agreed to pay each month (if not legally, you should be morally).

As far as the couch--that's a different issue.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

You're lucky she's only asking for two weeks rent, when I moved out of the last apartment complex I lived in, I had to give two months notice.

It does sound like you made up your mind and just want us to back you up, but, sorry, I don't think 3 weeks is enough notice. One month is the minimum notice. I know that you don't like her and she wasn't a good roommate, but that doesn't really matter. Even if I hated the person, I'd rather take the high road and do it the right way.

If she was such a bad roommate why would she stay there for so long?

Let us not forget that we only hear one side of a story and have no way of knowing if that side is the whole truth.

 

[Mickeyistheman]

I did ask for proper etiquette. I was asked by her when we were discussing this what did I feel was a proper amount of rent. So I told her what I could afford and that was it.

Her Grandmother owns the house some months I paid cash others were by check. Made to cash per her request.

I was paying rent for a room, that most of my friends had said was a rip off.

Several had offered for me to move in with them, but due to my family responsiblities I stayed where I did. I had several conversations with her when she just went into my room without asking and touched and moved things around. I had asked her to text me first and not just go in.

I was not living for free. I had asked twice when she needed more money because of electric and cable. I was never able to see the bills.

Yes I did stay and granted it was not great. I was never home, I worked late so I would not have to see her and I could not even cook because it was an
uncomfortable living situation.

What I don't understand is why she thought I was going to live there forever, that was never agreed upon and I had said this was not permanent and I was hoping to be out within 2 years. Having a conversation with her is difficult because she just doesn't get it.

She also does not like to talk about problems face to face which is why she always left notes around when she was not there.

If you all did read one of my last posts was that I felt that since I had only give her 3 weeks notice I was going to give her a weeks worth of rent and call it a day.

Yes she did me a favor and for the past year was living off of my money going away on trips etc. She had no roommate before I got there, the last one she had 5 in 10 years. Left 3 years ago.

I do not owe her a months rent and yes the lawyer that I spoke with does deal in Real Estate and if there is nothing in writing it can be difficult.

You all have a great weekend I know I will.

Cheers,

 

[The Mystery Machine]

IMO, 1 month notice should be minimum. Since you couldn't give her that, then I think asking 1/2 of Sept rent is fair. Especially if you want to keep her as a friend.

However, since there is nothing in writing, I don't think she can force you to pay (like going to small claims court) but don't expect to keep her as a friend.

Agree. I would give her 1/2 of Sept as I do think 1 month is a fair time frame.

I know you had issues with her however YOU CHOSE to stay in that living situation with her snooping and other annoyances. That has nothing to do with giving notice just like her buying a couch has nothing to do with you either.

 

[Hannathy]

You all have a great weekend I know I will.

Cheers,

Hope you sleep well, I know I couldn't after shorting a friend who did me a "huge favor" and knowing my word meant nothing.


As my Mom always told us just remember "the world turns"

 

[corgi_monster]

yes the lawyer that I spoke with does deal in Real Estate and if there is nothing in writing it can be difficult.

OP, I absolutely 100% agree with this one statement! And by that logic, since there is nothing in writing one can argue that you don't have any legal right to reside there. She can kick you out right now and change the locks. She can call the police and say you are trespassing. The "having nothing in writing" argument can be used both ways.

The bottom line is that it's her house, her rules. There is no contract that obligates you to pay her anything. But there is not contract to protect your rights, either. She is in a position where she can really screw you over and there's nothing you can do about it. You make her out to sound like a witch, and I know some witchy women who have done some horrible things to their ex-roommates. I think it would be in YOUR best interest to be as amicable as possible during this "break up."

 

[ilovemk76]

I did ask for proper etiquette. I was asked by her when we were discussing this what did I feel was a proper amount of rent. So I told her what I could afford and that was it.

Her Grandmother owns the house some months I paid cash others were by check. Made to cash per her request.

I was paying rent for a room, that most of my friends had said was a rip off.

Several had offered for me to move in with them, but due to my family responsiblities I stayed where I did. I had several conversations with her when she just went into my room without asking and touched and moved things around. I had asked her to text me first and not just go in.

I was not living for free. I had asked twice when she needed more money because of electric and cable. I was never able to see the bills.

Yes I did stay and granted it was not great. I was never home, I worked late so I would not have to see her and I could not even cook because it was an
uncomfortable living situation.

What I don't understand is why she thought I was going to live there forever, that was never agreed upon and I had said this was not permanent and I was hoping to be out within 2 years. Having a conversation with her is difficult because she just doesn't get it.

She also does not like to talk about problems face to face which is why she always left notes around when she was not there.

If you all did read one of my last posts was that I felt that since I had only give her 3 weeks notice I was going to give her a weeks worth of rent and call it a day.

Yes she did me a favor and for the past year was living off of my money going away on trips etc. She had no roommate before I got there, the last one she had 5 in 10 years. Left 3 years ago.

I do not owe her a months rent and yes the lawyer that I spoke with does deal in Real Estate and if there is nothing in writing it can be difficult.

You all have a great weekend I know I will.

Cheers,

I hope there is not a single text in which you discussed your rent or living arrangements.

 

[LilyWDW]

I hope there is not a single text in which you discussed your rent or living arrangements.

Or post anywhere on the internet...

 

[Ceila]

Again I ask, if you did not want to take a single piece of advice, if you discount every single legitimate point brought up, if you simply want to continue to justify your actions even though you used your so-called friend for cheap lodging when you yourself stated that you had other options, then why did you bother to post?