Proper Etiquette for moving out timeframe

I agree that it sounds like you're looking for someone to give you the green light to screw her over.

I think you should do the decent thing and think about her situation. She has to start work again AND look for someone to move in - within 3 weeks.

I think the right thing to do would be to give a proper month's notice and pay for it. But if you're not going to pay her 2 weeks, splitting the difference and paying 1 week for the full month's notice would be a decent compromise.
 
I do feel that 3 weeks is a good notice, I would have preferred to give her a month, however this just literally happened withing 2 days. I also feel that even if I had told her on August. 01 that I was moving out, she still would have asked me for money because that is how she is.

This has not been an optimal living situation and with all of the food she has thrown out on me over the past year and half I don't think I owe her that money.

I was actually going to get her and her grandmother a gift but no forget that.

I am still debating because A I don't want issues, but there I do not want to continue to have this person in my life. Yes she did me a favor but now are you taking advantage of me because you know I am paying less?

And actually its none of her business what I am paying now but she just kept harping on me sending me a million text messages while I was at work. So I gave in. Just to get her off my back. I have one mother I don't need 2.

She said that I picked a bad time to move out because her summer work ended (she is a teacher) so that means you don't have money to pay your bills, sorry that is not my problem so you are going to extort me for mine?

I am very torn I am not paying her half a month of rent, I don't fee it is warrented I would pay her for a week, since I only gave her 3 weeks notice but I don't even feel I owe her that.

It sounds like there are other issues involved that you didn't list in your OP.

With my DH as a teacher, I do know that the start of the school year is particularly stressful, so I can see where she's coming from.

She is/was a friend and she helped you out when you were down. From a mature point of view, I don't think asking for 2 weeks' rent is out of line. Any other rental company would have required first and last month's rent up front when you moved in, which would have made you pay ALL of September (as you gave notice after the August rent was paid).
 
Compromise, pay 1/3 of your September's rent and be done with them. I say 1/3 because if you gave notice on the 10th of August, 3 weeks of August (10-31) doesn't equal the days in September (10-30). So, I'd offer 1/3 of your rent and then just leave. Block her texts and on Sept 1, after you've given her the check, just tell her not to contact you anymore.

If you go back in the past and start trying to "make up" for the cost of the food that was thrown out, etc., it won't end well.
 
I do not know New Jersey law specifically, but without a written lease, you would have what is known as a month to month tenancy, terminable on 30 days notice by either of you. This would mean notice given at the beginning of the month, since that is when your rent was due. I would say that she is within her legal rights to require you to pay ALL of September rent. Just because the lease isn't written doesn't mean she is without legally enforceable rights.

She is offering you a relatively good deal. Take it.

Also, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose she had decided that YOU needed to go. What kind of notice would YOU expect if she simply decided that she no longer wanted a roommate. Would 3 weeks have been sufficient? Would you like to be FORCED to find a place and move out in 3 weeks? I think not. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed, we'd be reading a post about how unreasonable your friend was being in kicking you out with no place to go.
 

Since you don't have a lease, I assume this would be a month to month agreement, and therefore, you owe her September's rent. I'm basing this on my addiction to court TV shows.
 
It wasn't her problem when you needed a place and were short on funds but helped you out. I would pay because I don't think her request is unreasonable and even if I don't want to continue a friendship, I wouldn't want to put her in a bad financial position because the timing was off especially after really helping me out in the past.
 
Did you move in on the first of a month ? Did she charge you a whole months rent then ? Was she living alone and paying the bills herself before you moved in ? you money to her was "extra" and now she counts on it ?

I would be mad that the food was being thrown away but I would addressed it each time and taken that cost out of what I was paying her each month for whatever she threw away. You can't really add it all up now that you are mad and done. 30 days is notice for no lease on the norm and whether she could take you to court or not depends on if her landlord knew you were living there and if she had a right to move you in.

being nice would pay til the 7th of September. I'm sure you would have liked to have told her on the first. her paying the bills with just her money is her problems. She learned to take your money into account when she does her spending, it is not your job to keep providing that money, especially if you are unhappy. I would NEVER have told her what you will be paying. that does take in renter's insurance or any other bills that you have to pay by yourself.

If you want to be nice, pay half September and be glad she is not asking for all of it. I know you don't care if you remain friends but do you really want her up your butt about another weeks rent ?? or for her to try and go after you for the full months ? print out the 1/2 month rent agreement and have her sign it and date it and note that you are paid up so that she can never come after you for anything.
 
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I do feel that 3 weeks is a good notice, I would have preferred to give her a month, however this just literally happened withing 2 days. I also feel that even if I had told her on August. 01 that I was moving out, she still would have asked me for money because that is how she is.

This has not been an optimal living situation and with all of the food she has thrown out on me over the past year and half I don't think I owe her that money.

I was actually going to get her and her grandmother a gift but no forget that.

I am still debating because A I don't want issues, but there I do not want to continue to have this person in my life. Yes she did me a favor but now are you taking advantage of me because you know I am paying less?

And actually its none of her business what I am paying now but she just kept harping on me sending me a million text messages while I was at work. So I gave in. Just to get her off my back. I have one mother I don't need 2.

She said that I picked a bad time to move out because her summer work ended (she is a teacher) so that means you don't have money to pay your bills, sorry that is not my problem so you are going to extort me for mine?

I am very torn I am not paying her half a month of rent, I don't fee it is warrented I would pay her for a week, since I only gave her 3 weeks notice but I don't even feel I owe her that.

Sorry, it sounds like you want to punish her for the various “wrongs” she has done over the last several months.

Those “wrongs” have no bearing on this situation, and don’t absolve you from doing the right thing. Those were separate issues that should have been dealt with at the time they occurred.

You should pay the ½ month’s rent for September.
 
I do feel that 3 weeks is a good notice, I would have preferred to give her a month, however this just literally happened withing 2 days. I also feel that even if I had told her on August. 01 that I was moving out, she still would have asked me for money because that is how she is.

Three weeks is not customary for being a rental. Just because you FEEL it is something does not make it so.

This has not been an optimal living situation and with all of the food she has thrown out on me over the past year and half I don't think I owe her that money.

Yet you stayed and stayed and stayed as long as it was beneficial to you.


I was actually going to get her and her grandmother a gift but no forget that.

:sad2:

I am still debating because A I don't want issues, but there I do not want to continue to have this person in my life. Yes she did me a favor but now are you taking advantage of me because you know I am paying less?

She is not taking advantage of you. You are taking advantage of her to save yourself money.

And actually its none of her business what I am paying now but she just kept harping on me sending me a million text messages while I was at work. So I gave in. Just to get her off my back. I have one mother I don't need 2.

Has no bearing on the issue of the half of September rent.

She said that I picked a bad time to move out because her summer work ended (she is a teacher) so that means you don't have money to pay your bills, sorry that is not my problem so you are going to extort me for mine?

Some of the bills she has to pay are associated with you living there. If you gave her notice that you were looking, not after you found exactly what you wanted and tried to slide out of your obligation, then she would have another renter to pay those bills. Why did you not tell her; because you might have to leave before you found what you wanted and you would not be able to pay your bills when you had to leave. Seems all you care about is yourself.


I am very torn I am not paying her half a month of rent, I don't fee it is warrented I would pay her for a week, since I only gave her 3 weeks notice but I don't even feel I owe her that.

:sad2::sad2::sad2::sad2::sad2::sad2:
 
You're lucky she's only asking for two weeks rent, when I moved out of the last apartment complex I lived in, I had to give two months notice.

It does sound like you made up your mind and just want us to back you up, but, sorry, I don't think 3 weeks is enough notice. One month is the minimum notice. I know that you don't like her and she wasn't a good roommate, but that doesn't really matter. Even if I hated the person, I'd rather take the high road and do it the right way.
 
I do feel that 3 weeks is a good notice, I would have preferred to give her a month, however this just literally happened withing 2 days. I also feel that even if I had told her on August. 01 that I was moving out, she still would have asked me for money because that is how she is.

This has not been an optimal living situation and with all of the food she has thrown out on me over the past year and half I don't think I owe her that money.

I was actually going to get her and her grandmother a gift but no forget that.

I am still debating because A I don't want issues, but there I do not want to continue to have this person in my life. Yes she did me a favor but now are you taking advantage of me because you know I am paying less?

And actually its none of her business what I am paying now but she just kept harping on me sending me a million text messages while I was at work. So I gave in. Just to get her off my back. I have one mother I don't need 2.

She said that I picked a bad time to move out because her summer work ended (she is a teacher) so that means you don't have money to pay your bills, sorry that is not my problem so you are going to extort me for mine?

I am very torn I am not paying her half a month of rent, I don't fee it is warrented I would pay her for a week, since I only gave her 3 weeks notice but I don't even feel I owe her that.

I have difficulty viewing a situation from the perspective of someone whose every response is at the level of, but she started it!

Man up! You didn't want to tell her what your new rent is, yet she kept harping so you gave in? That's on you.

I wonder how torn she was about letting you move in and whether she felt she owed you that. People who use others in their lives like Kleenex eventually discover the box does run out.
 
It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.

I did not want this to go this way, but she is now making it difficult. She was not my only option of living spaces. I had 3 other places, since she was a friend and I had known her I thought ok this can work. Then very soon after moving in I realized this was goign to be a huge issue. I had tried to talk with her several times, but she just didn't get it.

She kept asking why I wanted to leave, she thought I was happy there. Really when I never come home, hardly leave any food in the house because you throw it away and make me feel like I am 5 years old by leaving notes all over the place instead of having an adult conversation like a normal person does?

I tried to make this work, I wanted it too but it just could not.

The straw that broke the camel's back happened last month when my boyfriend of 3 months who had never been to the apartment wanted to come by, (We had been seeing each other for 2 months) I had texted her to let her know he was coming for dinner, She flipped out and said she did not feel comfortable with him coming by. She went into this whole rant that she needs to protect herself and can't believe I gave him our address etc. etc.

Are you kidding me? This is why she has no friends and now that I am moving out she really won't have any. Her mother even said to me when I moved in she was so happy because now she won't be with her all the time and finally go out and enjoy life. I tried on numerous occassions but she never wanted to come out, even just her and I.

It is a shame, but you can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
 
You had 3 places to go and live, chose one, didn't like it and yet you stayed and now you are talking badly behind her back?
Maybe the girl should be happy you are moving out...

I'm very happy I don't have "friends" like you.
 
It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.
.

And that is why it is considered a month to month agreement, the least restrictive. It doesn't matter why you are moving out, you still need to give 30 days notice.

Chapter 5 Contents:

Ending or Breaking Your Lease
Why end a lease?
Notice to end a lease
Ending a yearly lease
Ending a month-to-month lease
Moving out before the lease ends
Give advance notice to the landlord
What if you decide not to move?
Claims for rent
Moving out because of bad conditions
Death or disability of a tenant or a tenant’s spouse
Property tax rebate
The lease may not survive the tenant’s death
Tenant illness or accident
Housing that is not handicapped accessible
Ending or Breaking Your Lease

ALL LEASES, WHETHER WRITTEN or oral, last only for a specific period of time, such as one month or one year. This chapter explains three things about ending or breaking leases. First, it explains how to end a lease so that you can move out when the lease period is up. Second, it explains the legal consequences of breaking your lease before your lease ends and when you can move because the landlord refuses to repair serious defects in your rental unit. Third, it discusses what happens to a lease when the tenant dies.

NOTE! Before you end or break a lease, you must understand a basic rule about landlord-tenant law in New Jersey. Because of the Anti-Eviction Act, you cannot be evicted simply because your lease ends. As explained in Chapter 9, The Causes for Eviction, a tenant can only be evicted if the landlord can prove one of the good causes for eviction under the law. The ending or expiration of a lease is not a good cause for eviction. This means that, however long your lease, you do not have to move just because your lease has ended. It also means that, unless you or the landlord end your lease, all yearly leases and month-to-month leases automatically renew themselves. The only exception to this rule is if you live in a building with only two or three apartments and the landlord lives in one of the apartments.

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Why end a lease?

Landlords and tenants have different reasons for wanting to end a lease. As stated above, a landlord cannot evict you just because your lease is over. Because of this, the only reason for a landlord to end your lease is to offer you a new lease with different terms, such as a higher rent or new rules and regulations. By ending your lease, the landlord cannot get you to move but can require you to pay more rent or to follow new rules.

On the other hand, tenants often want to end their leases because they want to move.

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Notice to end a lease
To end a lease, either the tenant or the landlord must give the other a written notice before the end of the lease, stating that the lease will not be renewed. If this written notice is not given or is not given in the required time, then the lease will renew itself automatically, at least on a month-to-month basis, generally with the same terms and conditions. Cite: N.J.S.A. 46:8-10.

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Ending a yearly lease. To end a yearly lease, unless the lease says otherwise, you must give the landlord a written notice at least one full month before the end of the lease. The notice must tell the landlord that you are moving out when the lease ends. Also, unless the lease says otherwise, the landlord must give you at least one full month’s notice before the end of the lease to terminate a yearly lease so that the landlord can raise the rent or change other terms of the lease. Remember, you cannot be evicted just because the landlord ends your lease.

For example, if your yearly lease ends on June 30, you have to give the landlord a written notice before June 1 that you plan to terminate the lease on June 30. Failure to give the proper notice may result in the automatic creation of a month-to-month tenancy. In that case, you may be responsible for at least an additional month’s rent. In this example, your failure to give notice may allow the landlord to charge you for July’s rent and to subtract it from your security deposit.

If your lease or a notice from your landlord says that you must either sign a new lease by a certain date or else move out by the date your present lease expires, your failure to renew your lease will put the landlord on notice that you intend to move out at the end of the lease period. If you object to changes in the lease, let the landlord know. Lease changes must be reasonable. See Chapter 9, The Causes for Eviction. If you then choose not to move out, you will become a month-to-month tenant. Cite: Kroll Realty v. Fuentes, 163 N.J. Super. 23 (App. Div. 1978) and Lowenstein v. Murray, 229 N.J. Super. 616 (Law Div. 1988). You will, however, be subject to eviction for refusing to sign a new lease.

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Ending a month-to-month lease. To end a month-to-month lease, or any rental agreement that does not have a specific lease term, you must give a written one-month notice before the month starts. You can then move out at the end of the month. Cite: S. D. G. v. Inventory Control Co., 178, N.J. Super. 411 (App. Div. 1981); Harry’s Village, Inc. v. Egg Harbor Tp., 89 N.J. 576 (1982).

For example, say that you have a month-to-month lease, your rent is due the first of every month, and you want to move on June 30. You have to give the landlord a written notice before June 1 saying that you will be moving out as of June 30, and you will end your lease at that time.
 
It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.

I did not want this to go this way, but she is now making it difficult. She was not my only option of living spaces. I had 3 other places, since she was a friend and I had known her I thought ok this can work. Then very soon after moving in I realized this was goign to be a huge issue. I had tried to talk with her several times, but she just didn't get it.

She kept asking why I wanted to leave, she thought I was happy there. Really when I never come home, hardly leave any food in the house because you throw it away and make me feel like I am 5 years old by leaving notes all over the place instead of having an adult conversation like a normal person does?

I tried to make this work, I wanted it too but it just could not.

The straw that broke the camel's back happened last month when my boyfriend of 3 months who had never been to the apartment wanted to come by, (We had been seeing each other for 2 months) I had texted her to let her know he was coming for dinner, She flipped out and said she did not feel comfortable with him coming by. She went into this whole rant that she needs to protect herself and can't believe I gave him our address etc. etc.

Are you kidding me? This is why she has no friends and now that I am moving out she really won't have any. Her mother even said to me when I moved in she was so happy because now she won't be with her all the time and finally go out and enjoy life. I tried on numerous occassions but she never wanted to come out, even just her and I.

It is a shame, but you can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

But none of the relationship difficulties have anything to do with your question and what money you owe her. Your lawyer is right. Since there was no legal agreement between you two legally she would have an impossible time trying to collect money from you because it just boils down to she said/she said.

All the "but she threw my food away and didn't welcome my boyfriend" is just hissy personality fights. All you're trying to do is prove to us that she was a bad roommate. Okay. So she was a bad roommate, you don't need to convince us of that.

You wanted to know the proper etiquette for paying when you move out. In a traditional apartment rental situation they probably would have collected first and last month plus a security deposit from you when you moved in, calculated that you owed the last month when you gave notice, and then refunded your security deposit. Proper etiquette, as most people have said --- is to give at least a month's notice.

Now you just need to decide whether or not you want to do that and move on.
 
If what you are saying is true, then I would probably give her the 1/2 month's rent and be done with it.

If you go back and forth with her about all the things that have happened over the time you lived there, you'll just end up endlessly going back and forth with her. She could be the type who would take you to court for not giving her what she wants, which in the long run would be waaayyy more expensive and time-consuming than just giving her what she's asking for now.

It's pretty simple. Stop the back and forth. Here's what you say:

"Mary, I am very grateful for the time I have spent here with you, but I feel like I want my own place now, and this opportunity came up. I am happy to give you half of September's rent". If she asks why you are moving, just say "because I feel like I want my own place now and this opportunity came up".

The bottom line is that she can't engage if you won't engage, so don't engage. Stop answering her multiple texts, especially while you are at work. get up, go to work, come home, pack your stuff and don't engage. If you don't think you can do that for 20 days, then move out ASAP and stay in a hotel for a couple of weeks until you can get into the new apartment.

But if you keep going back and forth with her, the next 2 weeks will be hellish.
 
It is quite interesting, I gave her notice on Aug. 7th.

Yes it has been month to month.

It is interesting because out of my friends and family members that I have spoken to and 1 is a lawyer said I do not owe her anything because she has no legal documents.

I did not want this to go this way, but she is now making it difficult. She was not my only option of living spaces. I had 3 other places, since she was a friend and I had known her I thought ok this can work. Then very soon after moving in I realized this was goign to be a huge issue. I had tried to talk with her several times, but she just didn't get it.

She kept asking why I wanted to leave, she thought I was happy there. Really when I never come home, hardly leave any food in the house because you throw it away and make me feel like I am 5 years old by leaving notes all over the place instead of having an adult conversation like a normal person does?

I tried to make this work, I wanted it too but it just could not.

The straw that broke the camel's back happened last month when my boyfriend of 3 months who had never been to the apartment wanted to come by, (We had been seeing each other for 2 months) I had texted her to let her know he was coming for dinner, She flipped out and said she did not feel comfortable with him coming by. She went into this whole rant that she needs to protect herself and can't believe I gave him our address etc. etc.

Are you kidding me? This is why she has no friends and now that I am moving out she really won't have any. Her mother even said to me when I moved in she was so happy because now she won't be with her all the time and finally go out and enjoy life. I tried on numerous occassions but she never wanted to come out, even just her and I.

It is a shame, but you can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

I think I remember you talking about your roommate a couple times in the past year. I could swear I thought you were going to live with your mom but then I again I get alot of people mixed up on here.

Anyways my problem with the situation is that you stayed when the "crazy" started. You stayed and stayed and stayed because you were benefiting. Finally you have your situation straight and can move on but you don't think you owe your roommate the courtesy of doing the right thing because of personal issues with the roommate.

However I'm sure she could bring you to small claims court because you have set a precedent for the year and whatever you have been renting from her. That is it's own agreement. If nothing else common courtesy would say you would pay your share of the household bills.
 
Here you are required to give 60 days notice, unless you are on a month to month, which then it's 30 days. So yes, in my eyes, you owe at least part of September.

She stepped up and gave you a place to live. It couldn't have been that awful as you stuck it out for this long.

Suck it up, pay what you owe, and don't burn that bridge. She helped you out when you needed it.
 
Unless your friend who is a lawyer happens to be a real estate lawyer in NJ, I'd say you got legal advice worth what you paid for it...which was exactly nothing. There IS an agreement here...and it is month to month. Oral contracts are just as binding and just as enforceable as written ones, provided the "meeting of the minds" can be shown. Here, that is SIMPLE. Proof of the agreement is everything that happened the last 18 months. You paid her rent every month. She let you stay every month. Simple. You have a month to month lease, and in the absence of a WRITTEN agreement to the contrary (which you have said there is not), it is terminable on 30 days notice delivered at the beginning of the month (not whatever date you decide). Therefore, there is no question that if push came to shove, you would owe her 100% of September rent. Don't be silly. Give her the 50% she is willing to take. Good grief.
 












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