Problem in education

[lisadr]

Well good for you.
Im proud of ya.

K

 

[Pikester]

The biggest problem is the notion that teachers can get paid far less than other jobs because it's sort of a part time job. Everyone wants highly qualified amazing teachers for far less than other professionals with a similar level of education.
In the end they still have to pay a morgtage, buy a car, and purchase groceries.
Untill teachers are paid on par with other professionals there is nothing we can do to fix the schools

That is the problem in my town. The salary that we pay our teachers is embarrassing. One of the reasons we lose teachers all the time. They start here to get some experiance then move on to the better paying jobs. We are trying to fix that by getting our starting pay higher but in order to do that we have to let 10 positions go. It's a vicious circle! We are a property poor town that uses property taxes to run our school. We have tons of apartment buildings with lots of kids to educate and retirement aged homeowners that can't afford to have their taxes go up. Many of them feel that the education they received has worked well for them so the kids today don't need this or that to make it.

 

[Kitty 34]

4 Words.....

No Child Left Behind

1 word.......

Amen!

 

[daughtersrus]

They shouldn't be denied an education but it doesn't have to be in a school setting.

If not in a school, where should they be educated?

 

[Briarmom]

Forget it.

 

[NY Disney fan]

As a single mom I have a decision to make. Should I :

a.) marry any old man so that my daughter coud live in a two parent household.

b.) remain single to protect my daughter while I, with the help of my parents, sibling and extended family continue to nurture and raise her.

Hmm....decisions, decisions...

 

[luvmy3]

Goofyluver, I wanted to thank you for answering and everything you said does makes sense. I really never gave much thought about what an IEP does for students and you have enlightened me. I was asking my dd who is in an inclusion class this year and she said that someo f the IEP students are taken out of class but some remain during certain lessons. She said they go to the cafeteria so I guess they don't have an actual classroom (obvious budget issues), but some of them are seperated from the other students. My son is also in the inclusion class for his grade and he says the students do not leave the classroom
I do know that some extreme cases have to be transferred out of our school to a school with a self contained classroom, we do not have one.

 

[luvmy3]

If not in a school, where should they be educated?

Well I never actually said not in a school, I said not in a (general population) school setting. A pp mentioned that her district has seperate schools for special ed, I think that works for everyone. I know due to district budgets that isn't always feasible, but its a good alternative non the less.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Maybe you dont think your child needs a father...but how would you know?
Fathers do what father do; do you really need an explanation?
I mean, do you not understand the role of a father to a family?
I didnt say you needed a "partner", i said kids need a father.
Kids also need a mom. It goes both ways.
I wouldnt want to grow up with just a dad, moms are equally important.
BOTH parents are important.
I understand that a single parent household can fuction just fine.
But look, go talk to a social worker, ask them about homes with no daddy, see what they say. Odds are, the homes with both parents, have a more stable and healthy enviornment.
P.S. fatherly nature is what it is, its the opposite of motherly nature.
I.E. When our kids cry at night for whatever reason, they usually want mom.
When my son wants to see what makes things "work" he comes to me.
Kids goto moms for different reasons they goto dads.
They seek things from both parents for many different things.

Your kids may not come to come to you now, but if mom weren't available, would you really, not be able to comfort your kids when they cry? (Do you think by chance that perhaps your kids have been trained to want mom given the roles that you two have taken up regarding them? For instance, in my family my mom was a SAHM. I hardly ever saw my father who worked 2 jobs. He didn't do the bulk of the care-taking work. So of course I didn't want him when I woke up crying a night.)

Are you implying that "women don't know how things work"? Or that kids naturally assume that women don't know how things work? (Do you and your wife perhaps have roles in the family that would give the kids this idea? Perhaps you happen to be good at engineering type stuff and she happens to be good at other things?)

Do you really think that there are no families in the world in which the gender roles are reversed (or non-existent)--if so, you have a laughably narrow view of the way people live. (Of course, in my experience people who cling to the idea that there are certain natural gender roles that define motherhood/fatherhood tend to ignore any actual evidence to the contrary and just take their own situation to represent the way that EVERYONE is.) Some women are top notch engineering, physics, neuroscience, etc. professors. Do you really think that the kids of these women don't go to mom when they want to know how things work? Some dads are SAHD who do all of the caretaking work while mom is out teaching PhD students "how things work"--do you really think that in that situation kids wouldn't go to dad for comfort when they wake up crying?


In fact, every legitimate study that has been done on the issue of having two same-sex vs. two opposite-sex parents has found NO significant difference in the outcome of the children. As much as people claim that children need a mother and a father, there is absolutely no legitimate scientific evidence that this is true. In fact, the only minor difference that has been recorded in these studies is that the children of gay couples tend to be raised in a significantly more egalitarian way with much less sexism and gender-based roles in the family. (In other words, the roles your talking about--that women comfort and men "know how things work" are completely made up. And the children of same-sex couples are lucky to be raised without such nonsense. I wish that I raised without much nonsense about gender roles. Unfortunately, I had the "traditional" mother/father b.s.) So that would mean, based on the evidence, that gay parents are actually better than straight parents!! Straight parents are actually causing their kids problems by treating them in sexist ways and modeling sexist behavior. So wouldn't it follow--based on THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENTIFIC STUDIES--that, in fact, it's better for kids to have two dads or two moms than a dad and a mom?

And "talk to a social worker." Um, where--at the local Focus on the Family organization? Who are all of these mainstream social workers you know who have evidence that there is anything problematic about a same-sex family? Funny, I know numerous people getting PhDs in social work right now at one of the top universities in the country. They haven't gotten to the part in the curriculum yet when they tell them that gays shouldn't have kids (or that kids NEED a father). Maybe because the social workers themselves are gay (yes they do allow gay social workers!) and they don't want to hurt their feelings, they've been suppressing the mounds of scientific evidence demonstrating the NEED for both a father and a mother .

What I find most amusing about your post, is that you can't even say what "fatherly" or "motherly" nature is. It's something that kids absolutely NEED (all evidence to the contrary simply ignored ), but you can't describe any aspect of it at all? Huh? Well gee I think kids need both a parent with a "whitely" nature and a parent with a "blackly" nature. I can't describe either of those and there's no scientific evidence that kids need any such thing, but I say they do. I thought it was obvious to everyone.

 

[daughtersrus]

Well I never actually said not in a school, I said not in a (general population) school setting. A pp mentioned that her district has seperate schools for special ed, I think that works for everyone. I know due to district budgets that isn't always feasible, but its a good alternative non the less.

You said a school setting. In some of the post from others, that meant home schooled, tutored, rehab cente...but not is a school building so I wasn't clear at to what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

My opinion is that it really depends on the child and the child's needs. Some school districts in our area want to include all children that have an IEP. I'm not sure if they really think that would be best for the children or if it's a funding issue. Personally, I would not want my child in a regular ed class. As I've said, I had to fight to get her out of our district and into a self-contained classroom that was better prepared to meet her needs. My DD is 14yo. She is no where near the grade level of a freshman and because of the disease, is no where near the size of a 14yo either (more like a 4th grader) There would be no benefit to her or to anyone else at the school to have her attend our local high school.

On the other hand, I do have a friend with a child with DS. He younger and doing quite well at the elementary level. They did hold him back and have him repeat Kdg. He is now in 2nd grade and can read some, do simple math and tell you about his day at school. He was quite excited the other day to tell my about owl pellets since they were talking about them in science. For him, inclusion is a good option at least for now.

 

[castleview]

The biggest problem is the notion that teachers can get paid far less than other jobs because it's sort of a part time job. Everyone wants highly qualified amazing teachers for far less than other professionals with a similar level of education.
In the end they still have to pay a morgtage, buy a car, and purchase groceries.
Untill teachers are paid on par with other professionals there is nothing we can do to fix the schools

Absolutely! In our area, teachers have to have a Master's Degree (they have a ten year period to get it) and if they want to be a department head or administrator they need a sixth year.

Regarding the bolded comment, every time the budget comes up in our town, at least one letter to the editor appears in the paper pleading for teachers, police officers, and firefighters to "take a cut for the good of the town." I'm sure they'd be thrilled if their own bosses proposed that. I swear some people never put their foot in other people's shoes before opening their mouth.

 

[smartestnumber5]

You might be suprised that most families in the world DO have a mommy and a daddy.
A large majority that dont, have negative issues-
They really do. That might disappoint you or not "fit in your world" or fit your lifestyle, but non the less, most families "look the same".
You make me out to be the intolerant one or the closed minded one.
Maybe you should look in the mirror.
Im sure im not "worldly" or socially tolerant like you, how could i be?
Im one of those fools that believe in time tested/proven traditions and institutions.
Im one of those fools that believes in values and morals.

Hey I'm getting a PhD in MORAL philosophy. I guess that means I win the morals contest?

And I believe in testing too--i.e. science. And the science says that two dads or moms are no worse (and may in fact be better) than one mom and one dad. (And most of the science that is about single parenthood indicates that it is MONEY, not the actual presence of two parents that accounts for the statistical difference between single and two parent homes. Thus if all single parent households were given a robot that would contribute an income such that it brought the single parent home up to the income level of a two parent home, that alone would get rid of most of the differences we see. So the evidence certainly doesn't bear out your claim that children NEED a mom and a dad or even that they would do better with both than with one. What kids NEED/would do better with is more income.)

 

[lisadr]

Absolutely! In our area, teachers have to have a Master's Degree (they have a ten year period to get it) and if they want to be a department head or administrator they need a sixth year.

Regarding the bolded comment, every time the budget comes up in our town, at least one letter to the editor appears in the paper pleading for teachers, police officers, and firefighters to "take a cut for the good of the town." I'm sure they'd be thrilled if their own bosses proposed that. I swear some people never put their foot in other people's shoes before opening their mouth.

Because their feet are too busy taking up residence in their mouths.

 

[castleview]

However, for his elective courses, he particiaptes with his grade level peers. Which, is sooooo important for kiddos like my child. They learn appropriate social and emotional cues, develop friendships, etc.

.

I've been watching this conversation. I'm curious what electives you are talking about. If I had a special needs child, I know I'd fight for everything that you do. But I do understand the concerns of mainstream parents who want to make sure their kids' education isn't watered down to achieve this.

 

[daughtersrus]

I've been watching this conversation. I'm curious what electives you are talking about. If I had a special needs child, I know I'd fight for everything that you do. But I do understand the concerns of mainstream parents who want to make sure their kids' education isn't watered down to achieve this.

I'm not the one that you address the question to but I do know that at the elementary level many children here participate in gym, music, library, art, field trip, assemblies... with regular ed students.

 

[daughtersrus]

Im one of those fools that believes in values and morals.
.

Except when it comes to cheating the insurance company to get more medication than you need for one month so that you only pay your co-pay every three months instead of monthly.

(this is from a different thread but it's worth pointing out the hypocrisy)

 

[castleview]

Hey I'm getting a PhD in MORAL philosophy. I guess that means I win the morals contest?

And I believe in testing too--i.e. science. And the science says that two dads or moms are no worse (and may in fact be better) than one mom and one dad. (And most of the science that is about single parenthood indicates that it is MONEY, not the actual presence of two parents that accounts for the statistical difference between single and two parent homes. Thus if all single parent households were given a robot that would contribute an income such that it brought the single parent home up to the income level of a two parent home, that alone would get rid of most of the differences we see. So the evidence certainly doesn't bear out your claim that children NEED a mom and a dad or even that they would do better with both than with one. What kids NEED/would do better with is more income.)

Oh, I don't agree with this. I currently work in a variety of public schools on Connecticut's gold coast. The parental income level is through the roof. But prices come with high incomes. Many of the kids don't see one parent due to their work and travel schedule. If the parents are divorced, then they are ON THEIR OWN quite a bit.

I'm a child of divorce whose parents tried to stay together "for the sake of the kids" - not a good idea. I know that divorce is necessary at times. And I'm betting most of the women on these boards had no intention of raising their kids on their own. However there are too many casual pregnancies that are enabled by our welfare system. Those cases can be a major drag on the school system.

 

[castleview]

I'm not the one that you address the question to but I do know that at the elementary level many children here participate in gym, music, library, art, field trip, assemblies... with regular ed students.

Ah, ok. I thought those were required subjects. Around here electives are foreign languages and basically any diverse/advanced division of a core subject (i.e. calculus, statistics, psychology, creative writing, physics, chemistry, etc.)

 

[crashbb]

Are you denying that kids DONT need two parents?
Do you REALLY believe that?
Think about it, do you REALLY believe that?
I stated that kids with 2 parent homes have a much BETTER chance at success.
They get a better shot at a good life.
You are throwing rocks at me with no merit nor aim.
There isnt one post here that i gave that stated kids with one parent CANT succeed.
But if you think its BETTER that kids only have one parent, then you either
1. Dont have kids
2. Dont WANT to see the truth.

Apparently while learning all your "morality" (except, as pointed, where it concerns the insurance companies) you forgot to learn English. Clearly, you simply have no idea what the word "need" means. I've given up trying to teach you.


TO EVERYONE ELSE - this has been a fascinating discussion about SE. I was one of those weird kids that was involved with both spectrum of SE. I was labeled as "gifted" but I also had an LD. Our school board had self contained classes (within a standard school) for Gifted starting in grade three (in continue in high school, but there it was by subject and petered out until it was only offered for English at the end). For the LD, I was pulled out of class a couple of times a week (started as more and than decreased) for individual help.

I think that lack of funding is one of the main issues - if there was more funding, you could increase salaries, funded SE and fund enrichment programs.

 

[daughtersrus]

Ah, ok. I thought those were required subjects. Around here electives are foreign languages and basically any diverse/advanced division of a core subject (i.e. calculus, statistics, psychology, creative writing, physics, chemistry, etc.)

At our middle school level, besides gym students can choose to be in band all year or take the tract that includes a quarter each of art, music, computers and home ec.

There are many more options in high school that include the courses that you've listed as well as art, drafting, cooking, choir....and we co-op for vocational courses as well.

Many kids with an IEP could be included in these classes without any issues.