'Pregnant' man stuns medical profession

[crazyforgoofy]

Oh yes, it is such a burden to mind one's own business.

Miss Jasmine, have I told you lately that I love you?

 

[Cindyluwho]

So here's a happy couple, married ten years, they've tried other ways of conceiving but were unable and came up with a solution that is acceptable to both of them. And why again is this my business? They're a happy, stable couple who want a child. I say go for it!
You know the old saying "Don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes....because then you're a mile away AND you have their shoes..."

 

[Charade]

Really? This couple shouldn't be having a baby because it's out of your comfort zone?

Where did I say that? Stop projecting.

You don't have to agree with them or understand it. All you have to do is not discriminate or treat them like lesser human beings. I can see how that's soooo hard for people to do and is such an unrealistic expectation.

You're right. I don't.

 

[Charade]

So, following your reasoning, a woman who doesn't have ovaries or a uterus (anymore) isn't female anymore?

Of course not.

 

[Angelhalo]

While unconventional, it is his right to do with his body as he wishes. It's a shame that some people can't put their own issues aside.

I totally agree. Why should they feel the need to go with adoption, when they can do it themselves. It makes me so mad that people have to have their say on why this is wrong. Blah. I won't say anymore, I don't want the points.

 

[Nikel]

Where did I say that? Stop projecting.

Then why exactly do you feel it's such a burden to be nice?

 

[smartestnumber5]

By having a baby, by definition, makes him a female and makes others call him a female. When was the last time a man needed to go see the ObGyn?

As I said before, almost all F-to-M trans men have to go to the gynecologist because almost all F-to-M trans men have not had bottom surgery, but they are, as a matter of law, male.

So the answer is quite often.

Men don't have babies. If you still have all or some of your original gender "bits", biologically, that's what you are. Legally you can be the opposite. You can feel differently in your head but that doesn't change what you are biologically.

What do you mean by "biological." Chromosomes? (This person has XX chromosomes = female.) Sex hormones? (This person was taking and after pregnancy I assume will be taking testosterone so = male.) Genitalia? (female) Secondary sex characteristics? (no breasts, deep voice, facial hair, = male) Reproductive organs (female).

It is simply not the case that there is one clear determinant of biological sex--all of the above are part of our usual conception of biological sex and in this person's case some of them imply male and some imply female.

In the case of transpeople, of course, the "mismatch" between the different aspects of biological sex is a result of medical intervention. But this kind of "mismatch" also occurs naturally in intersex people.

For example--what sex is a person with androgen insensitivity syndrome? (A person who has external female genitalia, testes and no uterus/ovaries so clearly no ability to give birth, male levels of testosterone but body is insensitive to it, XY chromosomes, a very stereotypically female appearance--full breasts, little body hair, defined waist and hips)?

Or take a person with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. (A person with XX chromosomes, external genitalia can look be anywhere on the spectrum from female to mixed to male, adrenal glands make very high levels of virilizing hormones which is what makes the genitalia ambiguous, typically male secondary sex characteristics like deep voice, dense body hair, receding hairline, and prominent muscles occur, there are often some fertility problems like polysistic ovaries but many people with CAH can conceive, usual ******l delivery is often not possible however)

If sex was as easily determined as you are making it out to be, then what are the sexes of these individuals?

 

[okeydokey]

If you read the article...it says he will be the father....he and his 'wife' have been together 10 yrs and she is unable to conceive...

So on the birth certificate he will be listed under Father. It really doesn't matter to me, I am just wondering.

 

[Charade]

I totally agree. Why should they feel the need to go with adoption, when they can do it themselves. It makes me so mad that people have to have their say on why this is wrong. Blah. I won't say anymore, I don't want the points.

Others can't have an opinion but you can?

 

[DisneyWorldOct08]

“I will be my daughter’s father, and Nancy will be her mother. We will be a family.”


That's more than a lot of children have. I say good luck to them.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

So...I was talking to my ex about this.....sending him the link.. and this was our conversation that popped up.
Amazing what one link can do....

**************

Christopher: I read about this. Appears to be a hoax

me: makes medical sense tho...
its possible... the boards I'm on are making more of a deal about the transgender bullcrap than the possibility

Christopher: Its all very very odd

me: yeah
but I say go for it....he's been in his relationship for 10 yrs and she can't concieve... if gay couples can adopt... regular couples can do in-vitro or have surrogates... they have a perfect option really when you think about it..lol
Sent at 11:35 AM on Wednesday

Christopher: There was a trial in New Deli where scientist claimed they could collect stem cells from menstrual blood to create endosperm packets.

me: interesting

Christopher: meaning a woman could get another woman pregnant with a little science

me: i dont see how thats possible... but scientists are doing weird &**& -
duplicating was somethin we'd thought we'd never see
Sent at 11:38 AM on Wednesday

Christopher: there is alot of exciting stuff that has recently been happened in the area of stem cell research... but politics keep getting in the way..
that and the morality of playing god

me: i just wish they'd find cures for diseases.. thats all I want them working on...the other stuff is messed up

Christopher: They cured Parkinsons... but a law Bush passed that banned collection of stemcells from aborted fetuses keeps them from releasing it or conducting trials

me: eww
thats touchy
using someones dead child ..

Christopher: no worse than using a dead persons organs, but ive got $20 that says you saved the $15 when you got your licences and youre an organ donor as well
Sent at 11:42 AM on Wednesday

me: I'm an organ donor because I would be tho...regardless
its hard to think about putting my kids thru that...

Christopher: dead grown up and dead fetuses are all the same, dont let a little thing like height deter you

me: but...I guess, long term thought process I would..
and of course...aborted fetus's..the parent didn't care anyways

Christopher: its just meat

me: nice

Christopher: a little harsh... youre right. But im not wrong

me: I know


**********
I could always count on my ex-husband for a good round of verbage!!
Anyways..just thought I'd throw somethin else out there.....

 

[Angelhalo]

Others can't have an opinion but you can?

Um I don't recall ever saying others couldn't have an opinion. I just said it makes me mad, not that they couldn't have their opinions. Now who's projecting?

 

[momof3disneyholics]

I totally agree. Why should they feel the need to go with adoption, when they can do it themselves.

But they couldn't do it themselves. They needed donor sperm.

 

[Angelhalo]

But they couldn't do it themselves. They needed donor sperm.

Lots of people need donor sperm, so it's wrong for them too? When did using donor sperm become wrong. I just got married. If my DR. tells me my DH has no viable sperm, does that automatically mean we have to adopt, or would it be "wrong" for us to use donor sperm too?

 

[WL Fan]

I don't think we should be told to mind our own business when a "pregnant man" shows up in a publication naked clutching his blossoming tummy. Sorry. It's not an "Ahh, ain't that sweet" moment... If they didn't want the controversy, they wouldn't have asked for it.

 

[va32h]

I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting.

You know, I thought I was the most cynical person in the world until now.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Lots of people need donor sperm, so it's wrong for them too? When did using donor sperm become wrong. I just got married. If my DR. tells me my DH has no viable sperm, does that automatically mean we have to adopt, or would it be "wrong" for us to use donor sperm too?

There is nothing wrong with that. I was just pointing out that they couldn't do it by themselves like someone else said.

 

[Angelhalo]

I don't think we should be told to mind our own business when a "pregnant man" shows up in a publication naked clutching his blossoming tummy. Sorry. It's not an "Ahh, ain't that sweet" moment... If they didn't want the controversy, they wouldn't have asked for it.

I thought it was sweet. Clearly your OPINION is different than mine. I never saw them asking for controversy either. I just saw a man and a wife who want to have their own child, and have the means to do so, even if it is a bit unconventional. I don't see anything about that, that is not sweet.

 

[Angelhalo]

You know, I thought I was the most cynical person in the world until now.

 

[smartestnumber5]

If this occurred in nature (excluding humans), what would this be called? Wouldn't it be a genetic defect? I can't imagine the mental issues surrounding this condition and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't have a problem with them picking the one they feel the closest to but pick it and stay with it. This person didn't. I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting. Should we now have a gender classification of "neither"?

But if it's so very obvious what sex people are that you know what sex the person in the article is, then don't you already know what sex an AIS person is? Why does the intersex person get to be whatever sex they want but the trans person is putting a burden on society?

The terms "intersex" and "transgender" are pretty much terms that mean "neither." It doesn't matter what our terms are. The fact is there are people that are *neither* biologically male nor biologically female.

Actually there has been a lot of research on intersexuality in recent years, and most of the emotional issues that such people are similar to those faced by gay people. The big issue is how to live in a world where people mistakenly think there's something wrong with you. For a long time the general response to intersex babies was to try to "fix" them by cutting off body parts (usually destroying all sexual functioning) and then lying to them about it for the next 20 years. It was assumed that it would be so damaging to know that one was born not clearly male or female, that it would be better to just remove or add body parts and then keep people in the dark even as they reached adulthood. It's only been in the last 20 years or so that intersex people have been able to organize in any way and to actually have a say in their own medical treatment. That say has overwhelming been that doctors should not be changing the genitalia of babies for non-medical reasons, that all people have a right to know the truth about their own bodies and medical history, and that being intersex is absolutely not something to be ashamed of.: http://www.isna.org/

As it turns out, people with AIS tend overwhelming and largely unproblematically to have the gender identity female despite their having male reproductive organs and male chromosomes. In this way, AIS people are very, very similar to trans people.

Take two people side by side--Jane and Sarah.
Both Jane and Sarah were born with testes and XY chromosomes. At age 25, both Jane and Sarah have external female genitalia, full breasts, and female secondary sex characteristics. Both of them at age 21 choose to identify as female and chose to be referred to by female pronouns. But one of them was born with the female genitalia and the other had it medically constructed. Is anyone really going to argue that one of these people is *really* a woman and the other is not?