'Pregnant' man stuns medical profession

[SandraVB79]

Can you just answer which sex it is that has ovaries and a uterus and gives birth?

The way we have determined it, it would be a woman. However, why should it be this easy? Things and concepts change, evolve...

 

[smartestnumber5]

Can you just answer which sex it is that has ovaries and a uterus and gives birth?

It is usually females.

But not all females have ovaries/uteruses/can give birth. And not all males lack these things. And not everyone is clearly female or male (i.e. intersex people).

Take the case of people with complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Such a person will likely have male reproductive organs (testes), male chromosomes (XY), and completely "normal" looking female external genitalia (but no uterus or ovaries). What sex do you think they are?

 

[ChrizJen]

But if GF got her license changed to say "M" instead of "F" and had her breasts removed--then her having a baby would be a travesty when now it is completely okay? (Is it supposed to make me feel good that while you look down upon this couple, my family is okay--so long as we abide by the strict guidelines of GF using female pronouns and keeping her breasts? Want to tell me the details of how you had your children and I'll tell you if I approve of those methods?)

I don't see where this person is flip-flopping. He has not changed the M back to an F. He has not asked for people to start calling him a female again. He is not asking to reverse his breast removal surgery. He clearly feels like a man. But he also has a uterus and that uterus is very useful for producing babies, so he is making use of it. He is still legally a man--merely having a child does not imply that he wants to be a woman or that he legally is one.

You seem to be assuming that one can not identify as and feel like a man while also employing a uterus to have a baby. The majority of F-to-M trans men still have uteruses. They still have to deal with the usual female-reproductive issues in their bodies--they still have to go to the gynecologist and get a monthly pap smear. If something goes wrong--uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, etc they still need to have the exact same medical treatment as a non-trans woman does. They are perfectly capable of living as, identifying as, and feeling like a man despite this. Extrapolating from this typical experience of F-to-M trans men, I see absolutely no reason to think that one can't feel like and identify as a man while having a baby.

You're absolutely right, and I agree with you 100%. I think that the issue here is the unprecidented nature of it all. Your explanation is an excellent one, and in a perfect world of kindness, understanding, and tolerance, it would work. But human nature tends to make us laugh at, make jokes about, and generally shun anything that borders on the unusual or unknown. We don't know enough about it, so we make jokes about it or say it's wrong. That's not to say that it's the correct reaction, but it will be the common one. Maybe this man is taking the first step in making it less of an issue. We'll hope.

(My partner and I are in the same boat as you, BTW...She'll probably have to be the one in our family to carry our child, and she's mistaken for a man ALL THE TIME!)
-Christal

 

[babytrees]

The article states that "he" is legally a man. What does it take to become that if this person still has important female parts? Because essentially here we have two women who are married. How is this allowed but not gay marriage?

that's what I was wondering??

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Yes I can see worries about the health of the baby.

But in that way they are no different than millions of other people who make choices that put their children at risk. Does anybody really know what 30 years of oral contraceptives do to a woman's body? Should a woman who has worked in a nuclear power plant for 20 years really be giving birth? Is it safe to be pregnant and be taking anti-depressants? If you are over 40, isn't it selfish to get pregnant given the increased risk to the baby? Not vaccinating your kids (we've all seen the vaccine threads on the DIS! ).

Sure there might be less information about this particular case than some of the other cases I mentioned. So sure, if you want to condemn them for making risky medical decisions I don't have a problem with that. But that really has nothing to do with the gender issue at all. If in 10 years there is a massive study done that shows that having a baby after undergoing sex-change hormones is no more risky than having a baby after 40, then there will be no medical reason for F-to-M trans people to not have babies. I assume, though, that most of the objections on this thread would not go away if it were proven that there is very little medical risk to having a baby after undergoing testosterone therapy.

People's personal opinions of what's 'right' color the way they see any situation. This thread is another example of that. I'm happy this couple can have a child. I hope the pregnancy is uneventful and the baby is healthy. There are no guarantees for any pregnancy and birth.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I actually agree with you here! He still has the parts, what's wrong with using them for what they were intended? It's not as if he (she?? I'm not even sure which pronoun to use to eliminate confusion) is just doing this for fun. He and his wife weren't able to have a baby any other way, so they chose this way. It's no different than a surrogate or fertility treatments IMO and I tend to be a bit conservative.

Me too. It's certianly not something I'd consider in my own life-but then I'm one of those people that never wanted kids. (and I know how people feel about us!)

I see no reason for people to be all about this. It's not hurting anyone else, it's a family decision that they made and I'm sure they are taking the proper precautions to protect the baby.

 

[babytrees]

In most states one can change one's legal sex after having top surgery (which you usually can't have until you've been diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder by a psychiatrist and had a certain amount of counseling) and taking hormones. Many, many trans people do not get bottom surgery--it is expensive, it is much more complicated than top surgery, and it can affect sexual functioning. This is probably largely a matter of providing some level of safety for the trans person. If you get stopped by a police officer and your license says "female" but you have a beard and no breasts there's probably going to be a big problem for you.

This isn't just a trans issue--there are also lots of intersex people who are born not clearly one sex or the other. Since we don't have any sex designations other than "male" or "female" these babies have be assigned one way or the other for legal purposes even if their genitalia/reproductive organs/chromosomes do not "match." If there were some requirement for marriage that you must have been born the opposite sex of the person you are marrying, then intersex people couldn't get married because they are not born clearly one sex or the other.

thank you for the explanation.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Wow..yeah.. thats interesting... but, really, when you think about it... SHE'S pregnant... not the HE part...
All the 'parts' are still there to carry the baby, he just got a sperm donor...which isn't uncommon.
Albeit weird in it's way... they are in a loving, committed relationship. I say go for it.

 

[3jsmommy]

I see it much the same way.

So do I.
My first concern was the hormone treatments, but since this sounds like it was very planned out I am sure the fertility specialists were aware of the length of time he had stopped taking them.
If you think about it, it is probably not that much different from a woman taking the pill (some of them even totally stopyour period for months at a time) and then stopping to get pregnant, or getting preg. while on it.
They obviously really wanted a child, I mean in the article the "husband said that the some of the wifes family didn't even know he was transgender..um, when Grandama shows up at the baby shower somebody might want to have the oxygyn handy.

 

[Nikel]

Can you just answer which sex it is that has ovaries and a uterus and gives birth?

Sex and gender aren't the same thing......

 

[ChrizJen]

Sex and gender aren't the same thing......

Thank You!!!!

 

[Charade]

You seem to be assuming that one can not identify as and feel like a man while also employing a uterus to have a baby. The majority of F-to-M trans men still have uteruses. They still have to deal with the usual female-reproductive issues in their bodies--they still have to go to the gynecologist and get a monthly pap smear. If something goes wrong--uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, etc they still need to have the exact same medical treatment as a non-trans woman does. They are perfectly capable of living as, identifying as, and feeling like a man despite this. Extrapolating from this typical experience of F-to-M trans men, I see absolutely no reason to think that one can't feel like and identify as a man while having a baby.

Men don't have babies. If you still have all or some of your original gender "bits", biologically, that's what you are. Legally you can be the opposite. You can feel differently in your head but that doesn't change what you are biologically.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

I don't see where this person is flip-flopping. He has not changed the M back to an F. He has not asked for people to start calling him a female again.

By having a baby, by definition, makes him a female and makes others call him a female. When was the last time a man needed to go see the ObGyn?

 

[raysnkaysmom]

So will he be the baby's mother or the baby's father?

If you read the article...it says he will be the father....he and his 'wife' have been together 10 yrs and she is unable to conceive...

 

[Charade]

Take the case of people with complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Such a person will likely have male reproductive organs (testes), male chromosomes (XY), and completely "normal" looking female external genitalia (but no uterus or ovaries). What sex do you think they are?

If this occurred in nature (excluding humans), what would this be called? Wouldn't it be a genetic defect? I can't imagine the mental issues surrounding this condition and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't have a problem with them picking the one they feel the closest to but pick it and stay with it. This person didn't. I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting. Should we now have a gender classification of "neither"?

 

[transparant]

If this occurred in nature (excluding humans), what would this be called? Wouldn't it be a genetic defect? I can't imagine the mental issues surrounding this condition and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't have a problem with them picking the one they feel the closest to but pick it and stay with it. This person didn't. I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting. Should we now have a gender classification of "neither"?

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

If this occurred in nature (excluding humans), what would this be called? Wouldn't it be a genetic defect? I can't imagine the mental issues surrounding this condition and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't have a problem with them picking the one they feel the closest to but pick it and stay with it. This person didn't. I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting. Should we now have a gender classification of "neither"?

Oh yes, it is such a burden to mind one's own business.

 

[SandraVB79]

Men don't have babies. If you still have all or some of your original gender "bits", biologically, that's what you are. Legally you can be the opposite. You can feel differently in your head but that doesn't change what you are biologically.

So, following your reasoning, a woman who doesn't have ovaries or a uterus (anymore) isn't female anymore?


Oh, and btw, every man can get breast cancer. You don't need actual breasts to get it (anyway, there are many men out there with bigger breasts than I have)

 

[Nikel]

If this occurred in nature (excluding humans), what would this be called? Wouldn't it be a genetic defect? I can't imagine the mental issues surrounding this condition and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't have a problem with them picking the one they feel the closest to but pick it and stay with it. This person didn't. I think it puts an undue burden on society to expect everyone to be nice and accepting. Should we now have a gender classification of "neither"?

Really? This couple shouldn't be having a baby because it's out of your comfort zone? You don't have to agree with them or understand it. All you have to do is not discriminate or treat them like lesser human beings. I can see how that's soooo hard for people to do and is such an unrealistic expectation.

 

[Charade]

Oh yes, it is such a burder to mind one's own business.

In a perfect world, no it wouldn't be. We aren't there yet (or if ever). But this affects a lot of people in other ways. It affects businesses, insurance, laws, etc. It's not just a case of "MYOB".