POT (Proof of Time) Race Equivalency Cutoff Confirmed Times

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
I'm not sure if these charts also translate to the Food & Wine events. For the two course challenge, world it be wiser to submit a 2:34 half or a 1:07 10k?
At this moment in time, the recent trend is that all weekends have shared a common corral cutoff timing scheme. So the chart posted in this thread is useable for all weekends. With that being said, what runDisney has done in the recent past doesn't guarantee future experience.

Per my extrapolation, the 1:07 10k would be a faster time than the 2:34 HM using what appears to be runDisney's conversion. And in this case would be the difference between corral E and D. You can always email trackshack and they will confirm for you whether the 1:07 or 2:34 is the better POT, but they are highly unlikely to confirm it being the difference in corral assignment.
 

dtrain

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 13, 2016
Question: The Elite top 25 corral, this puts you before A corral, and means you finished top 25 overall for the POT race? And if so, does runDisney actually go to your results link provided and see that you are Elite? Just curious as I placed top 25 in the SW half but don’t see anywhere to submit that claim in POT.
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Question: The Elite top 25 corral, this puts you before A corral, and means you finished top 25 overall for the POT race? And if so, does runDisney actually go to your results link provided and see that you are Elite? Just curious as I placed top 25 in the SW half but don’t see anywhere to submit that claim in POT.
The top 25 are the top 25 POTs submitted overall (so like a ranking of all POTs submitted for 2020 marathon weekend regardless of which race they came from). I believe it is usually 10-13 males and 10-13 females. Although based on recent past, they don't actually use all 25 available bibs and some go unassigned (presumably saved for if an elite is a late addition). As for starting position, I believe most of the elite bibs actually start in corral A. I've only seen a very small handful of runners actually start just ahead of corral A. At the 2018 marathon, my memory tells me Costa and Martins were both ahead of Corral A, but Hilton (bib #2 and eventual winner) was standing next to me at the front of corral A.

I believe @Wendy98 and @Pleglech have had elite bibs in the past so they might be able to give more details.
 
  • ashejen

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2003
    Ugh...I have a 2:24 half from last year after a terrible running year...and all the flat course here (pacific NW) are on weekends I'm totally booked on...my only shot to make it into a higher corral is to do a 10-miler on the weekend I have a 20-miler planned and try to take 3 minutes off my 10 mile time. I'd really like to be in Corral D for the breathing room...
     

    bevcgg

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 9, 2009
    I ran a 10miler this weekend for a new POT as my other had expired. I changed up my intervals and lost several crucial minutes, so as part of the debate to run another 10miler in 3 weeks I emailed RD about placement. Sharing their response to add to the collective data! Thanks @DopeyBadger for keeping this going!

    2:33:31 half marathon = 5:24 full marathon
    1:57:48 10 miler= 5:35 full marathon
    If you earn the 1:52:00 10 miler, it would equal a 5:18 full marathon
    Based on the 2019 event, the times that were between 5:01-5:30 was Corral E, while the time of 5:35 was Corral F.

    I think I am going to try for my usual 1:52 10miler for a more comfortable corral placement. My 2:33 half feels on the edge if they make corral adjustments.
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    Ugh...I have a 2:24 half from last year after a terrible running year...and all the flat course here (pacific NW) are on weekends I'm totally booked on...my only shot to make it into a higher corral is to do a 10-miler on the weekend I have a 20-miler planned and try to take 3 minutes off my 10 mile time. I'd really like to be in Corral D for the breathing room...
    Not sure which weekend you're looking to run, but many of them share a similar shaped distribution of runners (my assumption here is marathon though because of 10mi/HM POT discussion).

    Here are the 2018 and 2019 Marathon Weekend Corral breakdowns:

    Screen Shot 2019-04-30 at 8.16.29 AM.png

    Screen Shot 2019-04-30 at 8.16.33 AM.png

    The difference between Corral D/E in the marathon is about 11-12% of the field or 2000-3000 runners. So small by comparison, but not insignificant. Interestingly, Corral E is actually one of the smaller corrals vs the corrals around it. So from a congestion at that start standpoint, it's probably less congested than C/D. But as the course continues, then you'll come across that extra 11-12% of runners from D. From a timing standpoint, the difference between the start of Corral D and start of Corral E is about 8 minutes (5:46am vs 5:54am estimated).

    I ran a 10miler this weekend for a new POT as my other had expired. I changed up my intervals and lost several crucial minutes, so as part of the debate to run another 10miler in 3 weeks I emailed RD about placement. Sharing their response to add to the collective data! Thanks @DopeyBadger for keeping this going!

    2:33:31 half marathon = 5:24 full marathon
    1:57:48 10 miler= 5:35 full marathon
    If you earn the 1:52:00 10 miler, it would equal a 5:18 full marathon
    Based on the 2019 event, the times that were between 5:01-5:30 was Corral E, while the time of 5:35 was Corral F.
    Alright, let's digest this.



    Using the following calculator:

    T2 = T1 X (D2/D1)^R

    R is our unknown, whereas the time and distance of the events are known. The above chart uses a R = 1.08 for the M/Goofy/Dopey Corral Chart and a R=1.05 for the HM Corral Chart.

    2:33 HM to a 5:24 M is a R = 1.08 conversion as seen before. I come up with 2:33:31 = 5:24:32. So in agreement with the model above.

    1:57:48 to a 5:35 M is a R = 1.085 conversion which is slightly higher. I come up with 1:57:48 = 5:33:21. So not in agreement, but given this falls outside the known cutoff for 10 mile submission (1:56:30) I'm not worried that it disagrees with the above model.

    1:52:00 to a 5:18 M is a R = 1.083 conversion which is barely higher. I come up with 1:52:00 = 5:16:57. So not in agreement, but within that area that is very close. However, a 1:52 10 miler doesn't come close to the estimated Corral D cutoff (1:45:55), so I'm not worried the conversion is slightly off here.

    I think I am going to try for my usual 1:52 10miler for a more comfortable corral placement. My 2:33 half feels on the edge if they make corral adjustments.
    It's highly unlikely you have anything to worry about. Your 2:33 HM is a discussion between a POT submittable and non-submittable. The current POT submittable HM time for a M cutoff is 2:36:30 based on a 5:30 M conversion. This agrees with the email rD gave you which shows your 2:33=5:24M. In order for your 2:33 HM to slip into non-POT submittable area (and thus a different Corral (F)) would require runDisney to change their minimum required time (5:30 M) for POT submission. Since registration has occurred and the language of the question on registration did not change (asking whether 5:30 M or under), then we know they are continuing to use a 5:30 M as the current POT cutoff. Thus, your 2:33 HM should be as safe as it comes and there is no edge.

    I also find it unlikely they go back to the old corral system which had "more corrals, less people, with a set number of people per corral" vs the current system of "less corrals, and set time cutoffs". They made this wise change to make things easier on their end, and because the biggest splits came from non-POT corrals. But the issue came when everyone submitted 5:31 or 5:30:01 estimated times and forced their hand. It made Jane and John with the same submitted time end up in two corrals because of the "set number of people per corral" issue. Since they're unlikely to go back to this system, then I find it unlikely the cutoff for Corral E will change much. If anything, they would make the cutoff to get into Corral D harder to even out the corrals a bit. But I don't think they need to worry about doing that between this new system and mini-waves.
     

    bevcgg

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 9, 2009
    Thus, your 2:33 HM should be as safe as it comes and there is no edge.
    Thank you SO much for all of your work on this. While the math is a bit above my level I love all the data and find it helpful!
    And reassuring not only with POT issues but during the race itself. It is a nice reminder about how spread out everyone is and where I am in that space related to others.

    Good to know I am safe with my 2:33 time for WDW Marathon! Thank you!
     
  • Wendy98

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 5, 2012
    The top 25 are the top 25 POTs submitted overall (so like a ranking of all POTs submitted for 2020 marathon weekend regardless of which race they came from). I believe it is usually 10-13 males and 10-13 females. Although based on recent past, they don't actually use all 25 available bibs and some go unassigned (presumably saved for if an elite is a late addition). As for starting position, I believe most of the elite bibs actually start in corral A. I've only seen a very small handful of runners actually start just ahead of corral A. At the 2018 marathon, my memory tells me Costa and Martins were both ahead of Corral A, but Hilton (bib #2 and eventual winner) was standing next to me at the front of corral A.

    I believe @Wendy98 and @Pleglech have had elite bibs in the past so they might be able to give more details.
    I have had an elite bib both times I have done WDW Marathon. I really can't remember, but I assume I submitted a link to past race results (both were marathons, under 3 hours). It was a last minute decision for me--I signed up for 2017 two months in advance. I did email RunDisney to make sure I wouldn't be buried in the back because I signed up later. They confirmed that I would be corralled correctly.

    Not sure elite gets you anything other than a 2 digit bib number. I remember pretty much being merged with corral A. The first year I did it, I asked where I was supposed to go and they directed me to the merged elite/A area (I probably started 7-8 rows back). This past year, I knew I wasn't competing so didn't try to fight my way up towards the front. In a marathon, I don't feel the pressure to be at the line, there's so much time to find my position.
     

    challada

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 30, 2001
    This may be a super-specific question on corral placement, or just proof of my newbie-ness!

    I went ahead and ran a practice chip-timed (and very hilly) race this weekend to practice for my later one on the docket that I was planning on submitting for proof. I finished top-20 and a really good run time. I went ahead and put the link in runDisney for proof and my time, but it was technically a 7-miler race (not 10k, not 12k). I stuck it in as a 10k since that timing gets me a D based on tables I've seen and I'm pretty excited to move up the ladder, but if it was on the 12k timing table, it would get me a C. Will Disney extrapolate the time and distance? Should I just not care and submit my 10k that I had planned for later?
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    I went ahead and ran a practice chip-timed (and very hilly) race this weekend to practice for my later one on the docket that I was planning on submitting for proof. I finished top-20 and a really good run time. I went ahead and put the link in runDisney for proof and my time, but it was technically a 7-miler race (not 10k, not 12k). I stuck it in as a 10k since that timing gets me a D based on tables I've seen and I'm pretty excited to move up the ladder, but if it was on the 12k timing table, it would get me a C. Will Disney extrapolate the time and distance? Should I just not care and submit my 10k that I had planned for later?
    I'd say to feel the safest about the scenario, email trackshack and they'll tell you how they'd handle the situation. My guess based on past history is that it's best to submit the 7 miler race you did as a 6.22 mile (10k) POT race. This only hurts you because your actual race distance was longer. Don't submit it as a 12k (7.5 mile) race because then this is helping your time (time/distance would be a faster pace even though that distance was not covered) and would very likely be frowned upon. Additionally, I would guess since the registration is a drop-down choice for race distance and not a submittable field, it means that they would not extrapolate your 7 mile race into a race equivalency to the HM. It would very likely be treated as a 10k, since that is what you would submit it in the drop-down menu (thus only hurting yourself and not giving you any "time boost"). There's always the small chance that they check the POT via the link, and realize that you did not submit a 10k, and then place you in the last corral. But emailing trackshack would get a in-writing confirmation on how they plan to handle your exact situation.

    Given the 0.78 mile difference between the 10k and 7 miler, then I'm going to guess that you have a good chance of producing a better 10k final time than the 7 miler final time you just ran even if the conditions are worse. So in the end, the situation will probably end up moot.

    Let us know what you hear back if you decide to email trackshack.
     

    doombuggy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 21, 2001
    I am thinking about signing up for the January HM, which would be my first. I have done several Disney 10ks in the past 3 years. Am I understanding correctly that when signing up, I can either submit my SWRR 10k time or not submit the time and give an estimate, as I usually do for the 10k (since you don't submit an actual time)? Thanks for your help.
     
  • DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    I am thinking about signing up for the January HM, which would be my first. I have done several Disney 10ks in the past 3 years. Am I understanding correctly that when signing up, I can either submit my SWRR 10k time or not submit the time and give an estimate, as I usually do for the 10k (since you don't submit an actual time)? Thanks for your help.
    So for the HM, if you have a 10k faster than 1:15 (or other race equivalent as seen in the first post), then you can submit that as a POT at the time of registration. You can always update the 10k (or other distance) POT to something you run faster later in the summer. You have until October 8th to make changes and anything between registration and 10/8/19 is not locked in (is changeable). If you do not have a POT less than 1:15 at registration, then you have two options:

    -Just wait on filling in that portion of the registration for POT. I believe there is a clickable button that has you agree that you understand that POT is due in early October.
    -Submit an estimate HM finish time of 2:46-3:00, 3:01-3:15, or 3:16-3:30.

    The HM registration is different than what you've experienced prior with 10k registration. With the 10k, you can choose pacing from a 7:00 min/mile through a 16:00 min/mile with no POT option to submit. But the HM does not have this option. It's either you have a 10k (or other race equivalents which you can find on the first post) of less than 1:15, or you choose an estimate between 2:46-3:30 for the HM finish time. But in reality, it is not due until October 8th. If you forget to submit a POT and don't choose an estimate by October 8th, then you will likely be placed in the last corral.

    Hope this helps!
     

    doombuggy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 21, 2001
    Yes, thanks DopeyBadger! My 10k time for the SWRR (my best time ever) was not faster than 1:15 and I don't have any plans to run another race this year (working 2 jobs will do that to you sometimes, lol) so I will submit an estimate once I sign up. Thanks for your help!
     

    challada

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 30, 2001
    FYI, I finally got a response on my 7 mile race from the timing people at Disney and was told that they would NOT extrapolate it and the time would be registered as my time for a 10k. I kind of figured that, but it means I now need to really run on something else.
     

    CanadianPaco

    I miss my tags!
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2005
    Another PoT Question - the Rundisney website that you add your PoT under "MyAccount" - I seriously cannot locate where this is. Can someone should screen shot of where it is? I clicked on "MyAccount" at the very bottom of the screen but it just has me log in again. THX
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    Another PoT Question - the Rundisney website that you add your PoT under "MyAccount" - I seriously cannot locate where this is. Can someone should screen shot of where it is? I clicked on "MyAccount" at the very bottom of the screen but it just has me log in again. THX
    Go to rundisney.com and click on "Help and Support" in the upper bar with events, training, etc. Then, "Manage Account"

    Screen Shot 2019-06-15 at 5.04.28 PM.png

    -Login with your disney username and password.
    -Click "Your registrations" in the upper bar on the left.

    Screen Shot 2019-06-15 at 5.06.37 PM.png

    -Click on the registration you want to edit:

    Screen Shot 2019-06-15 at 5.07.20 PM.png

    -Then scroll through the registration to the POT question. This is where you can update your POT and then be sure to click "Save".

    Screen Shot 2019-06-15 at 5.08.14 PM.png
     

    CanadianPaco

    I miss my tags!
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2005
    Go to rundisney.com and click on "Help and Support" in the upper bar with events, training, etc. Then, "Manage Account"

    View attachment 409361

    -Login with your disney username and password.
    -Click "Your registrations" in the upper bar on the left.

    View attachment 409363

    -Click on the registration you want to edit:

    View attachment 409364

    -Then scroll through the registration to the POT question. This is where you can update your POT and then be sure to click "Save".

    View attachment 409366
    THANK YOU - I've only done one RunDisney event before - with Active - I was simply not seeing this! Cannot not thank you enough!!!!
     

    ZellyB

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 18, 2010
    Another PoT Question - the Rundisney website that you add your PoT under "MyAccount" - I seriously cannot locate where this is. Can someone should screen shot of where it is? I clicked on "MyAccount" at the very bottom of the screen but it just has me log in again. THX
    Once logged into your account look for your race registration and the go to edit that registration. Change the answer to whether you are going to enter a Post to "yes" and that will activate the fields to enter your PoT info.
     

    Chris138

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Aug 1, 2016
    I went to add my proof of time for the Dopey Challenge and the only race length options are 10 mile/Half Marathon/Full Marathon. I thought, previously, you could submit a 10K as 'proof of time' for the longer distance runs - does anyone know if this has changed?
     

    huskies90

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 28, 2004
    I went to add my proof of time for the Dopey Challenge and the only race length options are 10 mile/Half Marathon/Full Marathon. I thought, previously, you could submit a 10K as 'proof of time' for the longer distance runs - does anyone know if this has changed?
    It has not changed. A 10 Miler is the shortest distance you can submit for the full marathon and challenges that include the full marathon (Goofy/Dopey). You can submit a 10K for a half marathon.
     

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