Possible new resort coming to river country area?

[Postal68]

Fort Wilderness is the ONLY part of WDW that I enjoy staying in now. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not jam in some huge mega resort adjacent to it and crowd it.

This would be my final straw.

 

[doconeill]

I didn't eimply that they were already DVC campsites, please reread what I said. I know how points work and how DVC members can get a campsite for there stay.

I was responding more towards the end of your post, where you seem to advocate the creation of "DVC campsites", and from what was stated prior, it was unclear if you thought that there already were.

As for creating them...I didn't pay a lot of money to then have to provide my own shelter...

 

[old lady]

I also noticed plans for a new Winnie the Pooh area in fantasyland but they were not specific to Disneyland or WDW. Several blueprint leaks were also on their for the Harry potter expansion in universal.

Maybe they should put hundered acres woods in avatar land or make a resort based on pooh bear or least have shop that sells honey, soaps, candles, tea cups, boxes and coffee. Honey buns for pooh.

 

[rteetz]

Maybe they should put hundered acres woods in avatar land or make a resort based on pooh bear or least have shop that sells honey, soaps, candles, tea cups, boxes and coffee. Honey buns for pooh.

Why would they put Winnie the Pooh in avatar land that makes absolutely no sense in any way. The movies are not similar in any way. Winnie the Pooh fits much better in MK not AK nor avatar. Disney would never do that. They have a pooh ride in MK already. They also have plenty of pooh merchandise. Don't see them building a pooh resort anytime soon there is not need for it.

 

[disneylovin24]

I was responding more towards the end of your post, where you seem to advocate the creation of "DVC campsites", and from what was stated prior, it was unclear if you thought that there already were.

As for creating them...I didn't pay a lot of money to then have to provide my own shelter...

I still think I was pretty clear that there are no existing DVC campsites.

You may not want to but into DVC for a campsite but I am sure there are plenty of people that would. Look at how many people go back to FW every year for extended periods of time during the winter months. I think if DVC created a plan where you can buy directly into the campsites people would do it because it would be more affordable for them with how few points are needed. I know you could buy points for another resort and just use them at FW, but I think having campsites that are DVC campsites would be appealing for some. Probably tough for non campers to understand but like I said, RV sales are up and it may be becoming a bigger market again.

Either way, I think Disney could stand to add more campsites to FW.

 

[disneylovin24]

Maybe they should put hundered acres woods in avatar land or make a resort based on pooh bear or least have shop that sells honey, soaps, candles, tea cups, boxes and coffee. Honey buns for pooh.

They should put a Hundred Acres Woods in AK that is its own section. That would be fun and fits with the theme of the park!

 

[LaidBackDad]

Ok, I am new so maybe someone can help me. From what I can see it appears Disney management is trying to get out of the "hotel resort" business entirely. I could see a new DVC property going in but not anything else. DVC properties make too much money for relatively little effort compared to a non-DVC / "timeshare resorts". It appears Disney is content to sell or lease their properties to other companies like the new 4 Seasons resort, Swan & Dolphin, and others and let those other companies worry about the headaches of staffing, maintaining, and running the properties while Disney rakes in money from selling or renting the property. To me it seems unlikely we will see a new Disney resort unless it is DVC.

I really don't see a demand from people willing to shell out DVC money only to bring their own luxury accommodations with them (even if it is a really nice RV).

 

[doconeill]

Ok, I am new so maybe someone can help me. From what I can see it appears Disney management is trying to get out of the "hotel resort" business entirely. I could see a new DVC property going in but not anything else. DVC properties make too much money for relatively little effort compared to a non-DVC / "timeshare resorts". It appears Disney is content to sell or lease their properties to other companies like the new 4 Seasons resort, Swan & Dolphin, and others and let those other companies worry about the headaches of staffing, maintaining, and running the properties while Disney rakes in money from selling or renting the property. To me it seems unlikely we will see a new Disney resort unless it is DVC.

I really don't see a demand from people willing to shell out DVC money only to bring their own luxury accommodations with them (even if it is a really nice RV).

Whereas in other areas I do think Disney is trying to get out of the management business and instead play landlord - notably in the restaurants and shops - I don't really see evidence that Disney is trying to get out of the resort business. They have a LOT of resorts as it is, and not one of them has been outsourced.

The Swan and Dolphin exist because of a contract struck between Eisner and the developer who built Epcot. They have been around a long time and Disney's opened many resorts since then.

Shades of Green was sold to the Armed Forces in 1996 after they had leased it for a couple years. I don't think it was a particularly popular resort for the Disney crowd back then.

The Four Seasons is a niche hotel that is going to cater to the crowd that wouldn't stay in anything but a 4-star hotel, which the Disney resorts can't obtain due to liberal guest-friendly policies, etc. that they don't care to alter. The 4S occupies land that was previously a golf course. The land was de-annexed from RCID, and I forget if the land was sold or leased very cheaply for a long period ($1/99 years comes to mind, but that could be something else).

Disney also build AoA without a DVC component.

So there really isn't much to indicate that WDW wants to get rid of resorts or get out of the business...more that they might be content with what they have for now, and willing to let DVC build and either chip in for a hotel component or just use what gets turned over to them according to the contracts.

Keep in mind - more resorts == more guests, but then they have to have something for those guests to do, and if the parks are bursting at the seams, then they need to finally build a 5th gate - what is a MASSIVE expense up front but likely wouldn't see any revenue realization for many years, as it would more dilute the existing guest pool than draw it's own (of course, there would be some that would make a special extra trip just to check it out...)

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) With the profound greed of Ogre (I mean Iger), I am afraid the answer is YES.
2) But, I fear the effects.
. . . more crowds walking in-and-thru The Fort
. . . more crowds at Trails End
. . . more crowds at the beach and boat rentals
3) My biggest fear is the culture change at The Fort.
4) It will become just another resort and lose the campground ambiance.

 

[doconeill]

1) With the profound greed of Ogre (I mean Iger), I am afraid the answer is YES.
2) But, I fear the effects.
. . . more crowds walking in-and-thru The Fort
. . . more crowds at Trails End
. . . more crowds at the beach and boat rentals
3) My biggest fear is the culture change at The Fort.
4) It will become just another resort and lose the campground ambiance.

It may depend if the rumored resort is an offshoot of Ft. Wilderness itself, or if they will again dust off the Buffalo Junction plans, which was a self-contained resort.

 

[rteetz]

Whereas in other areas I do think Disney is trying to get out of the management business and instead play landlord - notably in the restaurants and shops - I don't really see evidence that Disney is trying to get out of the resort business. They have a LOT of resorts as it is, and not one of them has been outsourced. The Swan and Dolphin exist because of a contract struck between Eisner and the developer who built Epcot. They have been around a long time and Disney's opened many resorts since then. Shades of Green was sold to the Armed Forces in 1996 after they had leased it for a couple years. I don't think it was a particularly popular resort for the Disney crowd back then. The Four Seasons is a niche hotel that is going to cater to the crowd that wouldn't stay in anything but a 4-star hotel, which the Disney resorts can't obtain due to liberal guest-friendly policies, etc. that they don't care to alter. The 4S occupies land that was previously a golf course. The land was de-annexed from RCID, and I forget if the land was sold or leased very cheaply for a long period ($1/99 years comes to mind, but that could be something else). Disney also build AoA without a DVC component. So there really isn't much to indicate that WDW wants to get rid of resorts or get out of the business...more that they might be content with what they have for now, and willing to let DVC build and either chip in for a hotel component or just use what gets turned over to them according to the contracts. Keep in mind - more resorts == more guests, but then they have to have something for those guests to do, and if the parks are bursting at the seams, then they need to finally build a 5th gate - what is a MASSIVE expense up front but likely wouldn't see any revenue realization for many years, as it would more dilute the existing guest pool than draw it's own (of course, there would be some that would make a special extra trip just to check it out...)

I agree with you in everything you said but AoA was actually a built structure prior to 2001 but it was put on hold and than finally disney did something because it was sitting abandon. Pop century also was built early 2000s. DVC is probably what will come to the fort wilderness wilderness lodge area next. More resorts don't necessarily mean more guests either you need to fill the resorts just building a resort isn't necessarily going to drive people in. It also could draw people away from other resorts which would essentially make it even.

 

[rteetz]

It may depend if the rumored resort is an offshoot of Ft. Wilderness itself, or if they will again dust off the Buffalo Junction plans, which was a self-contained resort.

the plans that were leaked if they were real or not it looked like a pretty big resort if it is just going to be a DVC for the wilderness lodge or fort wilderness.

 

[LaidBackDad]

The Four Seasons is a niche hotel that is going to cater to the crowd that wouldn't stay in anything but a 4-star hotel, which the Disney resorts can't obtain due to liberal guest-friendly policies, etc. that they don't care to alter. The 4S occupies land that was previously a golf course. The land was de-annexed from RCID, and I forget if the land was sold or leased very cheaply for a long period ($1/99 years comes to mind, but that could be something else).

Disney also build AoA without a DVC component.

I agree that I don't see Disney selling off its existing resorts. AoA is considered a value resort which is why it is set off on its own (only bus transportation). I can't see a value resort being added close to the Bay Lake or Magic Kingdom areas. It wouldn't seem to fit with the other deluxe resorts.

I appreciate a nice resort but I'm not sure I'm following the 4 star resort reference. Maybe I'm not aware of certain services 4 Seasons will offer that Grand Floridian doesn't. I am not an expert by any means on what makes a 4 star resort but with Victoria & Albert's on site and other amenities, I'm thinking GF rivals 4S in deluxe accommodations.

Since the non-Disney resorts on property also offer some Disney perks like extended magic hours and Disney transportation I'm sure Disney has better lease contracts than $1 / 99 years. I'm not sure why Disney would give up control of such valuable real estate if it didn't have better financial incentive otherwise.

 

[jcnewton]

Whatever they do with the land, it seems very unlike Disney to just have a rotting, overgrown, old waterpark on their property and not have some plan for it. I'd love to see another DVC resort. As someone who will be buying into DVC in the next couple years, and current home resorts either near or at capacity...I'd love to have another HR option.

 

[doconeill]

Whatever they do with the land, it seems very unlike Disney to just have a rotting, overgrown, old waterpark on their property and not have some plan for it.

Yes, that's pretty much what they've had for over 13 years...they may have had "plans", but no plan to execute...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I appreciate a nice resort but I'm not sure I'm following the 4 star resort reference. Maybe I'm not aware of certain services 4 Seasons will offer that Grand Floridian doesn't. I am not an expert by any means on what makes a 4 star resort but with Victoria & Albert's on site and other amenities, I'm thinking GF rivals 4S in deluxe accommodations.
.

I have experience here and could write you a book on it.

But the simple answer to your question is: No

Not for a second. Disney specifically sold ( not leased) the land for the four seasons to fill a specific need that they cannot and have never fulfilled. And that is to service the wealthy traveler with what they demand/expect without saying a word.

I'm not talking about new money fools... Etrade customers who bought apple at $22 a share or orthopedists from Michigan...

The "grand"
Floridian cannot provide first class for a laundry list of reasons...fact.

But they charge $500 a night?! It's must be great and top notch, right?
That place is worth...honestly...maybe $250-$300 on a good day...

So if you really want to know what the monorail and The castle in view surcharge is...do the math.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes, that's pretty much what they've had for over 13 years...they may have had "plans", but no plan to execute...

With discovery island...the 20,000k leagues lagoon...the hunchback theater...wonders of life...millenium village...bomafamilles...pleasure island...and practically the imagination building

 

[disneylovin24]

I have experience here and could write you a book on it.

But the simple answer to your question is: No

Not for a second. Disney specifically sold ( not leased) the land for the four seasons to fill a specific need that they cannot and have never fulfilled. And that is to service the wealthy traveler with what they demand/expect without saying a word.

I'm not talking about new money fools... Etrade customers who bought apple at $22 a share or orthopedists from Michigan...

The "grand"
Floridian cannot provide first class for a laundry list of reasons...fact.

But they charge $500 a night?! It's must be great and top notch, right?
That place is worth...honestly...maybe $250-$300 on a good day...So if you really want to know what the monorail and The castle in view surcharge is...do the math.

I stayed at the Grand for one night in 04 and thought it was worth the 400+ a night.

Sorry it doesn't meet your luxurious expectations.

 

[disneylovin24]

I agree that I don't see Disney selling off its existing resorts. AoA is considered a value resort which is why it is set off on its own (only bus transportation). I can't see a value resort being added close to the Bay Lake or Magic Kingdom areas. It wouldn't seem to fit with the other deluxe resorts.
I appreciate a nice resort but I'm not sure I'm following the 4 star resort reference. Maybe I'm not aware of certain services 4 Seasons will offer that Grand Floridian doesn't. I am not an expert by any means on what makes a 4 star resort but with Victoria & Albert's on site and other amenities, I'm thinking GF rivals 4S in deluxe accommodations.

Since the non-Disney resorts on property also offer some Disney perks like extended magic hours and Disney transportation I'm sure Disney has better lease contracts than $1 / 99 years. I'm not sure why Disney would give up control of such valuable real estate if it didn't have better financial incentive otherwise.

I could be wrong, but I think part of what makes a value, a value is its location. You are far away from the parks. Even the moderates are farther away than Deluxes. The only resorts you will get near parks are deluxes because that is part of what makes them a deluxe.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I stayed at the Grand for one night in 04 and thought it was worth the 400+ a night.

Sorry it doesn't meet your luxurious expectations.

It has nothing to do with my "lofty" expectations.

It has to do with how they run the place and what they won't provide... Starting with the appearance and rules that govern the staff.

Four Seasons doesn't fill their staff from a general labor pool at low wage... Disney does. Four seasons doesn't say no to customer requests when it involves going to another vendor outside of their compound...Disney does. "Concierge" doesn't fill out a worksheet and then plug you into a reservation system that's an open free for all on the Internet...or tell you "sorry, citricos is booked". The concept of no privilege to your own clients is laughable.

Respectfully, you missed the point. I was commenting on the comparison of a Disney hotel to an established luxury brand. There isn't one. I'm not calling the grand a dump... I'm saying that they can't be realistically compared to four seasons because their service falls far short based on the limitations placed within the wdw compound. That means their price point is off. It wasn't a "personal preference" assessment.

I know I sound like a broken record...but you don't have to accept every myth, publicity campaign, and price Disney sells you to qualify as a fan of wdw. You just don't. You serve a company that wants to take every dime you have if you do... You do not service yourself.

There are things at all Disney locations that I think are spectacular... And that's why I'm a fan. Some examples are EPCOT, wilderness lodge, the yacht/beach/boardwalk area and many parts of the animal kingdom lodge and animal kingdom, and the original stunning landscape engineering and construction of the original elements around magic kingdom...
But please, oh please, don't qualify me as an elitist if I don't fall for the prices of the monorail hotels. I love it there... But that doesn't mean I have to switch my brain off.

And don't think it's any coincidence that after the four seasons started construction in earnest that they just so "happened" to build a DVC lodge at grand Floridian...which is a model that is based on predictability and cost control -for instance probably a 50-75% reduction in housekeeping services rendered by contract. That is the antithesis of "first class service"