Possible new resort coming to river country area?

[doconeill]

With the exception of SSR and OKW (which like I said I think get passes cause they are just DVC resorts), isn't another way to separate Deluxe from others is outdoor vs. indoor room entrances. I could be wrong but I think the Deluxe are the only hotels on property with indoor room entrances.

And FW is another exception since they are cabins.

I did mention in my earlier post that all the Deluxes are proper hotel designs with inside hallways...again, outside of OKW and SSR, which have a different design than any of the other resort classes anyways - sort of both inside and outside, at least at SSR - haven't stayed at OKW yet.

Fort Wilderness Cabins are in the moderate class...so they still fit in the "outside" entrance description of the moderates. They are just one-room-per-building.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Honestly, as someone who has spent a lot of time at FW and WL I am not too worried about turning River Country in to something. First off, I love the trail between the two and would hate to see that tampered with. Second, the theming of both resorts is woods/nature and its nice to have an undeveloped area between the two. IMO the appeal of both is that they are more secluded and I would hate to see that go if they built a resort or something large. Even putting a water park there again would mean more buses around and

I understand why others want to see it utilized but for me, I don't mind it sitting empty

I see where you're coming from and don't disagree.

The problem is DVC is out of space. I don't see them building a standalone out near animal kingdom... They learned their lesson with Saratoga... Which is as much non-standalone as it is... And it still sits with empty rooms.

The have no other un developed tracks... Unless you count yacht club.

The site of river country... Which is basically an extension of wilderness lodge that also can steal
Services from
Ft wilderness (and add to them... If they choose to and pull in more foot traffic)... Is gonna be too good of a prospect to pass up

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I've never heard of any special perks for getting to AK from AKL, and I've stayed there.

What they're referring to is the very exclusive backstage safari that is available to
Only those at akl...

But you pay for it...alot.

That's - no doubt - an attempt
To recoup some of the lost revenue due to lack of demand and the drastic step to convert to DVC...as you pointed out.

 

[doconeill]

I see where you're coming from and don't disagree.

The problem is DVC is out of space. I don't see them building a standalone out near animal kingdom... They learned their lesson with Saratoga... Which is as much non-standalone as it is... And it still sits with empty rooms.

The have no other un developed tracks... Unless you count yacht club.

The site of river country... Which is basically an extension of wilderness lodge that also can steal
Services from
Ft wilderness (and add to them... If they choose to and pull in more foot traffic)... Is gonna be too good of a prospect to pass up

DVC would LOVE to build a resort at the Ventian/Mediterranean parcel near the TTC, getting their own monorail resort (I may have mentioned it earlier in this thread or another), but the land is still deemed unsuitable for building. That's probably the only "deluxe" land left available though.

But I still think any new resort will be a joint effort, much like with Aulani.

 

[doconeill]

What they're referring to is the very exclusive backstage safari that is available to
Only those at akl...

But you pay for it...alot.

That's - no doubt - an attempt
To recoup some of the lost revenue due to lack of demand and the drastic step to convert to DVC...as you pointed out.

Isn't that restricted to concierge/club level guests as well? Or am I thinking a different one? I'd say if it is restricted to a certain class of rooms, then it doesn't quite count as it isn't a resort amenity.

Edit: I checked, and the "Night Safari" is only for resort guests. Sunrise Safari is club level only.

Didn't realize the Night Safari was restricted. We are actually doing it on our next trip, but happen to be staying there at the time.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

DVC would LOVE to build a resort at the Ventian/Mediterranean parcel near the TTC, getting their own monorail resort (I may have mentioned it earlier in this thread or another), but the land is still deemed unsuitable for building. That's probably the only "deluxe" land left available though.

I don't think that's an option...and remember their hole card is the south garden wing at contemporary... Desperate and obvious if they do that...but entirely predictable and bean counter logic. Taking out unpopular rack for overpriced villas. Also have "yacht"... Could throw something up at yacht club... Tacky again. But so was beach club kinda...half jungle/half parking lot and now the place is always booked solid. That's still the best spot in town.

A new theme on the monorail line is ideal... Except for one thing... The monorail. It's not
Gonna last. It neither hauls enough or costs
Pennies.

But I still think any new resort will be a joint effort, much like with Aulani.

Probably... But i just don't see them committing to more rack rooms. The demand is not there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Didn't realize the Night Safari was restricted. We are actually doing it on our next trip, but happen to be staying there at the time.

We're there next month...I might actually consider that.

I'm such a Disney "hater" that I do everything... Unlike the "lovers"

 

[doconeill]

I don't think that's an option...and remember their hole card is the south garden wing at contemporary... Desperate and obvious if they do that...but entirely predictable and bean counter logic. Taking out unpopular rack for overpriced villas. Also have "yacht"... Could throw something up at yacht club... Tacky again. But so was beach club kinda...half jungle/half parking lot and now the place is always booked solid. That's still the best spot in town.

The problem with YC is space. They took space next to YC for the convention center. Assuming removing the convention center isn't an option, all there is is parking lots, and the lots at YC are already small...you're hard bound by the Dolphin convention center and the boulevard right now.

 

[disneylovin24]

I did mention in my earlier post that all the Deluxes are proper hotel designs with inside hallways...again, outside of OKW and SSR, which have a different design than any of the other resort classes anyways - sort of both inside and outside, at least at SSR - haven't stayed at OKW yet.

Fort Wilderness Cabins are in the moderate class...so they still fit in the "outside" entrance description of the moderates. They are just one-room-per-building.

My cabin comment was more directed at its location. Yeah its almost as close to MK as WL but I just don't see how cabins can be deluxe, I LOVE the cabins, but they just aren't deluxe.

I see where you're coming from and don't disagree.

The problem is DVC is out of space. I don't see them building a standalone out near animal kingdom... They learned their lesson with Saratoga... Which is as much non-standalone as it is... And it still sits with empty rooms.

The have no other un developed tracks... Unless you count yacht club.

The site of river country... Which is basically an extension of wilderness lodge that also can steal
Services from
Ft wilderness (and add to them... If they choose to and pull in more foot traffic)... Is gonna be too good of a prospect to pass up

I agree with this, it does make the most sense unfortunately.

Have to say though, as DVC members it is nice to always have SSR as a back-up at 7 months when not staying at our home resort. We also know we can get in to SSR at 7 months out!

And honestly, I do love SSR and it may actually be my favorite WDW resort. I actually like the location because it is more convenient to just go to DTD than a park unless you have APs. I can see though why the location is a drawback and yes it is very spread out with outside entrances.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Considering the differences between the 2010 plans and the 2013 plans, the final plans, maybe 2016.............will be totally different all together. I see a New Deluxe on the Epcot monorail with a DVC half, before I see this resort near FW.

JMHO

AKK

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Considering the differences between the 2010 plans and the 2013 plans, the final plans, maybe 2016.............will be totally different all together. I see a New Deluxe on the Epcot monorail with a DVC half, before I see this resort near FW.

JMHO

AKK

Have to disagree... Site work, utilities, and mainly pre-existing services being the key.

They have avoided adding restaurants to DVC areas Like the plague...

Only where they knew better ( Sanaa) and had to scramble (Saratoga... And they still need more)...

They actually subtracted from the pallet at contemporary...nothing at grand Floridian... Nothing at beach club...nothing at wilderness...from all indications nothing at poly.

Picture it:
A long thin building offering spectacular nature views... One end right next to the existing DVC...the other stretching to the backyard barbecue. Existing food on both ends...and a bolster to ones that aren't ridiculously popular.

And...if they want to raise the stakes and create nightlife (which used to be fun... Now it means shopping) area near magic kingdom... By all those new villas... They can build a "wilderness" themed boardwalk development right on the water... Rising out of the ashes of river country like the Phoenix

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Have to disagree... Site work, utilities, and mainly pre-existing services being the key.

They have avoided adding restaurant to DVC areas Like the plague...

Only where they new better ( Sanaa) and had to scramble (Saratoga... And they still need more)...

The actually subtracted from the pallet at contemporary...nothing at grand Floridian... Nothing at beach club...nothing at wilderness...from all indications nothing at poly.

Picture it:
A long thing building offering spectacular nature views... One end right next to the existing DVC...the other stretching to the backyard barbecue. Existing food on both ends...and a bolster to ones that aren't ridiculously popular.

And...if they want to raise the stakes and create nightlife (which used to be fun... Now it means shopping) area near magic kingdom... By all those new villas... They can build a "wilderness" themed boardwalk development right on the water... Rising out of the ashes of river country like the Phoenix

Locked out, cannot disagree with any of your points.................all good.

I am just looking at the placement near FW and the number of times this has come up and gone away.

One thing the monorail has is space!

AKK

 

[doconeill]

Have to disagree... Site work, utilities, and mainly pre-existing services being the key.

They have avoided adding restaurant to DVC areas Like the plague...

Only where they new better ( Sanaa) and had to scramble (Saratoga... And they still need more)...

The actually subtracted from the pallet at contemporary...nothing at grand Floridian... Nothing at beach club...nothing at wilderness...from all indications nothing at poly.

Picture it:
A long thing building offering spectacular nature views... One end right next to the existing DVC...the other stretching to the backyard barbecue. Existing food on both ends...and a bolster to ones that aren't ridiculously popular.

And...if they want to raise the stakes and create nightlife (which used to be fun... Now it means shopping) area near magic kingdom... By all those new villas... They can build a "wilderness" themed boardwalk development right on the water... Rising out of the ashes of river country like the Phoenix

I'm not sure why you think they are avoiding adding restaurants. In all the cases you mentioned, they were built attached to an existing resort which already had dining options. And the buildings built were relatively small.

You forgot OKW...which as far as I know has had Olivia's from the start. And the Boardwalk Villas, which has a lot of options (easily available to BC guests as well).

With SSR, I think they thought that the proximity to DTD would be enough, but it wasn't enough and it would have made SSR the only "deluxe" resort without a table service...and I believe a lot of it had to do with the complaints that it wasn't a deluxe _without_ a table service.

I think Sanaa was a way to entice more people over to AKL/AKV.

And how did building BLT result in loss of a restaurant at the CR? I recall them needing to do a bit of shuffling due to the construction of the walkway...but it also added a lounge (albeit restricted access).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not sure why you think they are avoiding adding restaurants. In all the cases you mentioned, they were built attached to an existing resort which already had dining options. And the buildings built were relatively small.

You forgot OKW...which as far as I know has had Olivia's from the start. And the Boardwalk Villas, which has a lot of options (easily available to BC guests as well).

With SSR, I think they thought that the proximity to DTD would be enough, but it wasn't enough and it would have made SSR the only "deluxe" resort without a table service...and I believe a lot of it had to do with the complaints that it wasn't a deluxe _without_ a table service.

I think Sanaa was a way to entice more people over to AKL/AKV.

And how did building BLT result in loss of a restaurant at the CR? I recall them needing to do a bit of shuffling due to the construction of the walkway...but it also added a lounge (albeit restricted access).

You're actually agreeing with me... Boardwalk and old key west were built from scratch...but long ago.

They actually took out seasons in favor of the "mixed use" artists palette...at Saratoga

Lets face it... They most definitely are adding DVC to saturate the existing facilities.

Kidani HAD to have something...and it still didnt quite work...it's almost as available as Saratoga...

They rehabbed the contemporary resort food - didnt really know why at the time - to take out the excellent/underated concourse steakhouse... Gave us the horrid "wave"... And the real reason: to add more seats to the nightmare of ingredients known as "chef mickeys"

I'm not saying it's not logical to put more people into existing restaurants and pools... But is a little cheap though... Can't deny that angle.

 

[bcrook]

You're actually agreeing with me... Boardwalk and old key west were built from scratch...but long ago.

They actually took out seasons in favor of the "mixed use" artists palette...at Saratoga

Lets face it... They most definitely are adding DVC to saturate the existing facilities.

Kidani HAD to have something...and it still didnt quite work...it's almost as available as Saratoga...

They rehabbed the contemporary resort food - didnt really know why at the time - to take out the excellent/underated concourse steakhouse... Gave us the horrid "wave"... And the real reason: to add more seats to the nightmare of ingredients known as "chef mickeys"

I'm not saying it's not logical to put more people into existing restaurants and pools... But is a little cheap though... Can't deny that angle.

All the DVC additions would seem to stress the monorail and the monorail restaurants decreasing the value of deluxes across the board. Especially if no new restaurants are added.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

All the DVC additions would seem to stress the monorail and the monorail restaurants decreasing the value of deluxes across the board. Especially if no new restaurants are added.

Indeed...
Placing guaranteed occupied rooms into aging hotels with aging facilities... Would seem like a bit of a gravy scenario...

Say this for Michael Eisner...
He did used to occasionally send somebody out into the swamp... Point at a patch of ground... And say "build something there"

Iger has never done it once. No attempt at anything.

Im waiting to open fire on "art of animation"...

 

[Andrew015]

While I think a River Country resort is a possiblity, I think it would be a number of years off from becoming a reality. With SSR and OKW often sitting vacant, I'm wondering how they could justify the capital investment for a brand spanking new facility that would just fight for occupency vs other resorts that struggle to get to 75%? I suppose you could make the same arguement for Poly DVC, but I think the difference there is it is such a desireable location and the DVC portion is going to be relatively small, so it would sell out in record time. Also, the cost to "convert" an aging long-house into DVC, vs building a brand new resort at River Country is apples and oranges. One is a slam-dunk for the bean counters, the other is a bit of a stretch.

I doubt this would ever happen, but it would be really cool to see them somehow incorporate Discovery Island into the plans. I hate to see it sit there idle and wasting away to nothing. They have boat docks and utilities on the island, but I doubt it is enough infastructure to support anything major like shops or a bar... you know, something truly unique.

 

[doconeill]

While I think a River Country resort is a possiblity, I think it would be a number of years off from becoming a reality. With SSR and OKW often sitting vacant, I'm wondering how they could justify the capital investment for a brand spanking new facility that would just fight for occupency vs other resorts that struggle to get to 75%? I suppose you could make the same arguement for Poly DVC, but I think the difference there is it is such a desireable location and the DVC portion is going to be relatively small, so it would sell out in record time. Also, the cost to "convert" an aging long-house into DVC, vs building a brand new resort at River Country is apples and oranges. One is a slam-dunk for the bean counters, the other is a bit of a stretch.

I doubt this would ever happen, but it would be really cool to see them somehow incorporate Discovery Island into the plans. I hate to see it sit there idle and wasting away to nothing. They have boat docks and utilities on the island, but I doubt it is enough infastructure to support anything major like shops or a bar... you know, something truly unique.

I've seen mention of SSR and OKW being "vacant", but are there actual numbers?

I know that towards the end of this past August, when things were slowing down from the Summer and park calendars were rated in the 4s and 5s, OKW was actually OVER capacity and guests were relocated.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I've seen mention of SSR and OKW being "vacant", but are there actual numbers?

I know that towards the end of this past August, when things were slowing down from the Summer and park calendars were rated in the 4s and 5s, OKW was actually OVER capacity and guests were relocated.

I don't have the numbers but we have been OKW members since 1994. It is never vacant. It fact the times we tried to get a reservation 3 or 4 months out, even the off season it is not at all easy.


AKK

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I've seen mention of SSR and OKW being "vacant", but are there actual numbers?

I know that towards the end of this past August, when things were slowing down from the Summer and park calendars were rated in the 4s and 5s, OKW was actually OVER capacity and guests were relocated.

We've talked about this before...

No... OKW and Saratoga aren't sitting with massive vacacy. Almost all DVC end up being used...
There are exceptions and those are typically Saratoga and kidani....OKW has a nostalgic following from original DVC and the points are less.

I have noticed that I could book same day often of late... But again typically Saratoga and akv...surprisingly some contemp too.

Bay lake seems to be losing demand... GF being the prime reason...but honestly it's just not that nice. It SHOULD be...but when I'm there it doesn't feel
Like it.

The DVC model needs to continue construction to sustain itself...remember there are dozens of contracts assigned to each unit...which means the more they build... The more demand they guarantee across the system. The cost reimbursement and maintenance fees make constructive almost a no brainer... And they can bank the point fees as cash on hand... Which is fun fancy accounting.

Highly unlikely they'll stop