Poor Sportsmanship in the NFL

[3Gsandme]

You & I will have to agree to disagree on what that flag represents. I do not believe refusing to stand for the National Anthem has a thing to do with any of the things you listed out, nor do those things exist exclusively due to "oppression".

Well, you have a point on the last part. They're due to institutionalized racism, though I'd probably feel pretty darn oppressed if I was subject to institutionalized racism. Wouldn't you?

 

[Magpie]

Flame suit on because I'm sure I'm going to get raked over the coals.....

These statistics are not very meaningful without context or additional data.

"Black children make up only 18% of the preschool population, but make up 50% of the suspensions." - What is the racial makeup of preschoolers that are brought to the administration's attention and considered for suspension? What if 50% of the kids brought up for suspension were black? What if it was 75%? Would the statistic be as impactful? I suppose you would then say that the white kids are just let off the hook to begin with and never even considered for suspension. However, you can't know that, can you?

"1/5 of disabled children are black, yet 44% of disabled students placed in manual restraints are black." - Not a very meaningful statistic unless you know what those disabilities are and why restraints may be required. You cannot equate one disability with another.

"Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children. 60% of children in prison are black." - You would need to know what the crimes were in order for this statistic to have meaning.

"White college graduates are twice as likely to find jobs as their black college grad counterparts." - is everything else about the college graduates the same? Do they all have the same degree with the same GPA and same outside activities? You need this other information to make a valid comparison. Person A with Degree C is not the same as Person B with Degree C.

"People with "black sounding names" have to send out 50% more job resumes to get a call back than people with "white sounding names" " - same issue as with college graduates.

"On the New Jersey turnpike, while black people only make up 15% of the drivers, they make up 40% of the stops and 73% of the arrests even though they don't break traffic laws at higher rates than whites." - one stretch of road doesn't seem like enough of a sample.

"If a black person kills a white person they are two times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person who kills a black person." - More context of the crimes is needed to validate this. Doesn't the heinousness of the crime and the remousefulness of the guilty factor into the dealth penalty?

The bottom line is that you can't blame race alone (and maybe not at all). There just isn't enough information to know.

There IS actually enough information to know quite a bit about each of these statements. They're pretty easy to google.

Just to get you started, here's the study that led to the statement: "People with "black sounding names" have to send out 50% more job resumes to get a call back than people with "white sounding names"

http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

 

[DizBelle]

There IS actually enough information to know quite a bit about each of these statements. They're pretty easy to google.

Just to get you started, here's the study that led to the statement: "People with "black sounding names" have to send out 50% more job resumes to get a call back than people with "white sounding names"

http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

That study is 15 years old. I'm not sure you could consider that still valid today.

 

[Magpie]

That study is 15 years old. I'm not sure you could consider that still valid today.

Right, because race relations have improved SO much since 2001.

(If you have any more recent studies you can cite, showing that things have improved to the point where the original study is no longer valid, I'd be happy to see them!)

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Well, you have a point on the last part. They're due to institutionalized racism, though I'd probably feel pretty darn oppressed if I was subject to institutionalized racism. Wouldn't you?

Guess that depends on whether or not that oppression impacted my ability & opportunity to make $19 million a year playing a game.

 

[therealdjt]

I think this guy is a whiny, entitled doofus, but he's allowed to be that in this country.

I, however, take exception with your statement that military service is just a job. It is not. As one who served and who serves today as a civil servant alongside the men and women in uniform, I can assure you it is far more than just a job. Those who are only in it for a job don't stay long. Those who have served or are serving get that.

This has been the water-down comment of a veteran Now back to your regular programming.

The same can be said for literally nearly every profession, however, as is the moral superiority expressed by those who are passionate about their jobs and who feel that others in "lesser jobs just don't get it." It's a form of employment for many people, and I suspect that it's a true calling for far fewer than the number for whom it's a career.

 

[pat fan]

Important? It's frankly pretty trivial. It's purely ceremonial. Complaining about whether or not someone does so or not appeals to patriotic emotions rather than dealing with something that is truly meaningful.

No, it's not trivial or ceremonial. It's being respectful. The flag does not represent whites or blacks, D's or R's, rich or poor, it is for EVERYONE. It's giving a moment of honor and respect to all those who lived here, died here and helped create our "here". It's not political. In our house you honored it, and anyone who was willing to defend it (and all of us) either in the past or present. Politics may have some problems, and there will always be bad apples no matter where you look, but the flag represents dreams and ideals and freedom. Yeah, let's sit on that....no thanks.

 

[bcla]

No, it's not trivial or ceremonial. It's being respectful. The flag does not represent whites or blacks, D's or R's, rich or poor, it is for EVERYONE. It's giving a moment of honor and respect to all those who lived here, died here and helped create our "here". It's not political. In our house you honored it, and anyone who was willing to defend it (and all of us) either in the past or present. Politics may have some problems, and there will always be bad apples no matter where you look, but the flag represents dreams and ideals and freedom. Yeah, let's sit on that....no thanks.

I would refuse to fight over a flag. It is merely symbolic. There is a vast difference between a flag and the country that it represents. I will defend all those ideals you mentioned, but a flag? No.

I get the tradition and I usually follow it. I'm not going to get worked up over someone else not following the tradition. In the end it is merely symbolism and ceremony.

 

[Unas]

It becomes a problem when those dreams, ideals, and freedoms are not available to many Americans because of their race, ethnicity, or religion.

 

[KBoopaloo]

Guess that depends on whether or not that oppression impacted my ability & opportunity to make $19 million a year playing a game.

So because he personally has been successful he is not allowed to have any feelings about anyone else's oppression?

 

[johnsontrio]

His team owners and management do not need to decide, because they've already decided:



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ck-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem

They've made it very clear that this is a non-issue.

If it is "an issue" for fans and ticket holders, they can choose to boycott any financial support of that player and that team. Doesn't seem to me to be something that will ruffle many feathers in the Bay Area.

 

[Hikergirl]

I appreciate our military, but it's still just a job. Every time I hear someone say that an insult to the flag is an insult to the military, I just shake my head.

I'm just shaking my head too.

 

[pat fan]

I would refuse to fight over a flag. It is merely symbolic. There is a vast difference between a flag and the country that it represents. I will defend all those ideals you mentioned, but a flag? No.

I get the tradition and I usually follow it. I'm not going to get worked up over someone else not following the tradition. In the end it is merely symbolism and ceremony.

I was answering a specific question, not a general blanket statement on everyone who doesn't "participate" during the anthem. As I stated previously, a lot of people don't know how to behave during the anthem, and I get that. But when you choose not to for a quasi-valid reason, then I disagree with you. Not the right to do it, you certainly have that, but I am also allowed to have my opinion that you are wrong. (not you bcla, but Kap). And the flag represents the best of what we can and should be, I still don't get protesting, stomping and burning that. Protest the specific program or individual that is behaving in a wrong way, not something that represents the way you should be treated!

 

[Chocolate Cake]

I don't even know where to start with this and I don't know how much I feel like writing an essay on this.


The flag and the anthem do not just stand for us, federally. They stand for us as a whole. As symbols. We all stand under that flag. It encompasses us all (the tired, the poor, the teeming masses). Kaepernik made a symbolic gesture. He makes no claims about specific, legalized oppression on the federal level. He said, and I quote "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color". He is very, very clear.

Let's talk about institutionalized racism for a few minutes and then I gotta go do domestic things. Institutionalized racism is the process of social institutions (schools, banks, courts) treating people of difference races in a negative manner. There are no laws on the books promoting this. But, here's what it looks like:

Black preschoolers are more likely to be suspended than white preschoolers. Black children make up only 18% of the preschool population, but make up 50% of the suspensions.

Once the children enter school, black children are three times more likely to be suspended. Black children make up 40% of school expulsions and 2/3 of school aged children referred to law enforcement are children of color (black and hispanic).

1/5 of disabled children are black, yet 44% of disabled students placed in manual restraints are black.

Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children. 60% of children in prison are black.

White college graduates are twice as likely to find jobs as their black college grad counterparts.

People with "black sounding names" have to send out 50% more job resumes to get a call back than people with "white sounding names"

A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a routine traffic stop. On the New Jersey turnpike, while black people only make up 15% of the drivers, they make up 40% of the stops and 73% of the arrests even though they don't break traffic laws at higher rates than whites.

If a black person kills a white person they are two times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person who kills a black person.

What study is so specific it comes down to a percentage of how many black disabled children are manually restrained?

Stop whining, stop playing the damn victim, lose the chip off of your shoulder. Stop saying stupid things like "You don't know how hard it is. We have to teach our black men to put their hands on the steering wheel and speak to officers in a certain tone when they are stopped."

No. Crap.

White people have to do that too. All colors have to do that.

I am so sick and tired of black people holding other black people down. It's hurting our children and setting us back. It is my latest obsession to seek out black scholars and professors that love to instill in our youth how "wypipo" (professors actually using this term) hate us and oppress us. Newsflash: They don't.

There are very bad white people. There are very bad black people. Bad people come in all colors.

Obey the law at all times. Behave. Stand up straight. Smile and be kind. Dress the part of a functioning member of the human race. Speak in an articulate manner (apologies for the "No. Crap.") And reach your potential. Black, white and every color in between.

 

[luvsJack]

That "just a job" is the reason that NFL players have the right to not stand for the flag.

How any one can sit in their comfy chair on a computer and say that the guys sleeping in the dirt or sand, thousands of miles from their families, risking their lives and call what they do "just a job" boggles my mind.

The reason they get there doesn't matter. Many people make choices based on lack of other choices. It doesn't change the fact that joining the military, the police force, becoming a fireman are all much more than just a job.

Are they they morally better than anyone else. No. Good and bad in everything. But they are willing to stand between you and whatever bad guy or bad thing is trying to come at you, your family, your home or our country and THAT makes it much more than just a job.

 

[JoeA]

What study is so specific it comes down to a percentage of how many black disabled children are manually restrained?

Stop whining, stop playing the damn victim, lose the chip off of your shoulder. Stop saying stupid things like "You don't know how hard it is. We have to teach our black men to put their hands on the steering wheel and speak to officers in a certain tone when they are stopped."

No. Crap.

White people have to do that too. All colors have to do that.

I am so sick and tired of black people holding other black people down. It's hurting our children and setting us back. It is my latest obsession to seek out black scholars and professors that love to instill in our youth how "wypipo" (professors actually using this term) hate us and oppress us. Newsflash: They don't.

There are very bad white people. There are very bad black people. Bad people come in all colors.

Obey the law at all times. Behave. Stand up straight. Smile and be kind. Dress the part of a functioning member of the human race. Speak in an articulate manner (apologies for the "No. Crap.") And reach your potential. Black, white and every color in between.

I would "like" this 100 times if I could

 

[3Gsandme]

What study is so specific it comes down to a percentage of how many black disabled children are manually restrained?

Stop whining, stop playing the damn victim, lose the chip off of your shoulder. Stop saying stupid things like "You don't know how hard it is. We have to teach our black men to put their hands on the steering wheel and speak to officers in a certain tone when they are stopped."

No. Crap.

White people have to do that too. All colors have to do that.

I am so sick and tired of black people holding other black people down. It's hurting our children and setting us back. It is my latest obsession to seek out black scholars and professors that love to instill in our youth how "wypipo" (professors actually using this term) hate us and oppress us. Newsflash: They don't.

There are very bad white people. There are very bad black people. Bad people come in all colors.

Obey the law at all times. Behave. Stand up straight. Smile and be kind. Dress the part of a functioning member of the human race. Speak in an articulate manner (apologies for the "No. Crap.") And reach your potential. Black, white and every color in between.

You actually have no idea what you're talking about, but the fact that you don't doesn't surprise me. There are so many white people who think just like you and until we actually admit this stuff happens to people of color in our society, it will continue to happen. Until the majority of white people buy into the idea of institutionalized racism, white privilege and have an understanding what happens to someone, mentally, when they grow up in severe poverty, nothing will ever change for anyone. But you keep telling yourself black people just need to talk less and smile more. We'll who's right in the end.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

You actually have no idea what you're talking about, .

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

My sons know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Talk less and smile more? That's what you got from my post? Are you black? Or are you one of those white people that try to tell us how oppressed we are?

If you are a citizen in the United States of America, you are oppressed only if you choose to be oppressed. The opportunity in this nation is served to us on a silver platter. It's all about decisions. Someone will always be richer. Someone will always be more educated. Someone (any color) will be treated poorly (or worse) by a BAD police officer.

Move on and move up. Stop making excuses for yourself because of your color, your upbringing, your missed opportunities. Just stop.

 

[3Gsandme]

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

My sons know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Talk less and smile more? That's what you got from my post? Are you black? Or are you one of those white people that try to tell us how oppressed we are?

If you are a citizen in the United States of America, you are oppressed only if you choose to be oppressed. The opportunity in this nation is served to us on a silver platter. It's all about decisions. Someone will always be richer. Someone will always be more educated. Someone (any color) will be treated poorly (or worse) by a BAD police officer.

Move on and move up. Stop making excuses for yourself because of your color, your upbringing, your missed opportunities. Just stop.

Wait, you're a black person who doesn't believe that institutionalized racism and white privilege exist?

 

[Chocolate Cake]

It becomes a problem when those dreams, ideals, and freedoms are not available to many Americans because of their race, ethnicity, or religion.

What dreams and freedoms are not available to "many Americans"?