Polynesian CRUSHING Copper Creek in direct sales

[dwight16]

does anyone know how the cabins at CC and the bungalows at poly effect all the other rooms in DVC? i mean i am sure they are empty most of the time but were apart of the points that are sold. are these units causing stress on us getting the rooms we want when we want? i wonder if someone has looked into this and could the member's make a case of them not building anymore of these types of units...

 

[CarolMN]

does anyone know how the cabins at CC and the bungalows at poly effect all the other rooms in DVC? i mean i am sure they are empty most of the time but were apart of the points that are sold. are these units causing stress on us getting the rooms we want when we want? i wonder if someone has looked into this and could the member's make a case of them not building anymore of these types of units...

The bungalows are NOT empty most of the time. Just look at the 60-day availability report on the Members's website. When they did the report as of 9/12/2017, there were NO nights available in the bungalows for the next 60 days. When I looked at the 60 day report near the end of August, there were 5 to 6 times more nights available i OKW & SSR 2 b edrooms than bunglaow nights.

The data is not supporting the assertion that the bungalows are a problem.

 

[ziravan]

does anyone know how the cabins at CC and the bungalows at poly effect all the other rooms in DVC? i mean i am sure they are empty most of the time but were apart of the points that are sold. are these units causing stress on us getting the rooms we want when we want? i wonder if someone has looked into this and could the member's make a case of them not building anymore of these types of units...

For Poly for example, there are 20 bungalows. My calculations from looking at a few months of sales is that half as many Poly owners own enough points to stay routinely in bungalows. I doubt everyone with 250 or more Poly points always uses them for bungalows. So I think a reasonable average would be 8 bungalows per night reserved by Poly owners during home resort booking.

At 7 months, plent of owners from other resorts are going to want to sample bungalows. And maybe 1-2 per night are left for DVC to rent as cash.

But.

Those 12 rooms, be they booked by other owners at 7 months or less or as CRO, that's where Poly points trading out are going to go to first. Either trading into other resorts at 7 months or using points for cruises, etc., bungalows are going to eat up 600,000 Poly points trading out a year before any studios are available at 7 months.

The bungalows will stay full. The bigger implication is on studios once Poly sells out. Between studios being oversold and bungalow inventory that'll eat up trade out points, the bungalows will serve to keep Poly studios booked by the 7 month window.

 

[DebbieB]

And I didn't say it should have been the same villa ratios as VGF nor have I ever stated that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to direct it back to you. I meant members in general complained that there should have been more studios at VGF. Studios seem to go first at every resort.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

does anyone know how the cabins at CC and the bungalows at poly effect all the other rooms in DVC? i mean i am sure they are empty most of the time but were apart of the points that are sold. are these units causing stress on us getting the rooms we want when we want?

Arguably, it doesn't matter if the cabins or bungalows are vacant or not. Every new point sold impacts 7 month availability, and that impact will be felt most strongly on studios, and any units at the "prime" resorts -- BLT, VGF, BWV, BCV. I expect we'll see this to a lesser extent at Poly. BRV has only ever been a slug fest for Christmas and fall frenzy, but as more points enter the system it may move up in terms of desirability as people try to swap out of Saratoga or OKW or even, eventually, Riviera.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Sorry, I didn't mean to direct it back to you. I meant members in general complained that there should have been more studios at VGF. Studios seem to go first at every resort.

They did make CCV one of the higher percentage at WDW for studios but we're talking small amounts. VGF is one of the lower percentages and because of it's size it's the least amount of studios at a resort at WDW. What I would think they would do is get somewhere in between PVB at 94% studios and the more normal average of 35% studios.

 

[rowrbazzle]

As a family of 5, being pushed all the way to a 2 bedroom for Copper Creek is a BIG turnoff. I know we're not the norm per this MB, but we're Poly owners and love the studios there.

We're the same way. I was holding out hope that Copper Creek would have "bigger" accommodations, but no such luck. I guess the old rooms were too small. The cost and points needed for a two-bedroom are generally too high for us to stomach. At that point I don't feel like we would be saving because we would have never paid as much as it costs for such a room in the first place.

 

[Sammie]

I feel that DVC has missed the market for this family make-up -- a 2 bedroom requires a lot of points, so many can not afford this size contract, at studio for 5 is too cramped, so to build a resort and only have a 1 bedroom that can only accommodate 4 is a let down. This is what limited our list of DVC contracts that fit our family of 5. Hopefully with a completely new build at Riviera will bring a different occupancy limits.

This scenario might be ok for a shorter visit, but a week in a studio with 2 adults, 2 12 yo boys and a 4 year old would get pretty cramped pretty quickly. Not that people spend too much time in their room, but it is nice to know you can go back to your room, spread out and relax and not be on top of each other.

I don't think we have enough info to be sure this is the case. We can guess but for us a family of 3 adults, we only bought DVC to get 2 bedrooms. I am sure others do too.

 

[stlrod]

I had a difficult time deciding whether to purchase CCV or PVB to add to our existing points. I love the larger studios at PVB but would never use the Bungalows. On the other hand, we have always loved the Wilderness Lodge and some of the 2 BR points requirements are reasonable. Yesterday, I called my guide to see if I could add 225 points at CCV and 50 at Poly and get the credit for 275 points applied to my CCV purchase since the tiers were the same for both levels starting at the 220 level. He said it took an Act of Congress to get it done but I am a new owner at both today. So in my case, the "crushing" was reversed and I'm a happy camper.

 

[bumbershoot]

Agreed. I'm just saying everything I read on these boards for years took everything else about the resort into account, and really harped on the only studio thing hard and therefore didn't recommend it as a good buy overall. Despite the never ending connecting rooms with 2 bathrooms that sleep 5 each. Despite all Polys positives, I've read over and over that people wouldn't buy them because of the studio limitation. And I think we can all agree studios are by FAR the most popular room type within DVC. So Copper Creek did the opposite and it's not working out well so far.

So...I feel like you're putting a lot of power in the hands of dis'ers, but also not reading them right.

Telling people to make SURE that you've thought things through, that you want what Poly has to offer and that it'll work for you, isn't saying no one will buy it.

They buy at the resort that DVD is pushing at the time.

True.

What CC looks like is a hipster Seattle PNW attempt at rustic.

Ugh.

The monorail is a great selling point for those that don't realize it's really like an above ground NYC MTA with a slightly better smell.

I'm just pointing out that the numbers tell us that all studios wasn't this definite deal breaker everybody made it out to be.

A deal breaker for one doesn't mean for all.

And buying something doesn't mean it works for you. We bought Bay lake and that doesn't mean it was the best for us.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing the people who are insisting that squeezing 3 teens and 2 adults in Poly 15 years from now will still be perfect, if it really is still perfect.

Second shower aside, my thought is nothing is perfect when 3 teens are involved. Let alone a small space.

 

[MrInfinity]

I just find it so entertaining that everybody complained so much about the fact that the Polynesian only had studios and Bungalows and that was the reason they wouldn't sell.

Yep. Tho... Not everybody... I figured Poly would sell fast. It is the best resort on property. The Bungalows never bothered me. For their flagship property, it makes sense to have a special type of room available at the most outrageous possible cost. There are people out there with a lot more money than us... and these people vacation too, sometimes to Disney World. So I think what drives the complaints is that the disboards are fundamentally a budget board. Folks here are trying to figure out how to take Disney trips for cheaper or get more than the average Joe by doing research. But with the Bungalow, you can't research or finagle to get an edge. You either pony up the points or you don't stay there.

People buy the Poly because it's a popular resort and the majority of buyers, don't Disboard and know little of the DVC before buying. They buy at the resort that DVD is pushing at the time.

I never like this argument that the general populous outside the Dis is uninformed and buys what Disney tells them to. DVC owners I know in real life are smart people and make educated purchases.

DVC could probably have raised the price of PVB to $185 like VGF and BLT if it had 1&2 bedrooms. DVC could have made a lot more money.

A 2B takes up the space of 3 studios. When you have limited space... like the Poly... 3 families of 4 will be more profitable than 1 family of 8. At resorts with more space or where constructing new, building bigger rooms makes sense. But in the confined space of the Poly, how Disney did it maximized their money.

I'm just pointing out that the numbers tell us that all studios wasn't this definite deal breaker everybody made it out to be.

Agreed. If there's one thing I've noticed, it's that people like to profess the forthcoming doom of whatever Disney World does next.

Personally my thoughts haven't changed that with the PVB location, the economy and other appeals of the resort that they could have absolutely crushed it if they had included 1 and 2BR's.

The Poly DOES have a 2B. It's just expensive. I think they crushed it by having the 2B but having it be 2.5X the cost of a 2B anywhere else. That right there tells you just how much Poly crushed it. 135 points per night and they are still filling.

The bungalows are NOT empty most of the time. Just look at the 60-day availability report on the Members's website.
The data is not supporting the assertion that the bungalows are a problem.

Exactly. The Bungalows are more popular than people would like. I have always been against the notion that Disney will reallocate these down in value. If any reallocation it will just be to split Standard from Garden view in the Studios, making a Standard (parking lot view) really cheap.

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing the people who are insisting that squeezing 3 teens and 2 adults in Poly 15 years from now will still be perfect, if it really is still perfect.

I think the argument made above is then you just get 2 Studios. Which seems fine. When you've got teens, you don't even need adjoining rooms.

Now the Cabins at the Wilderness Lodge... I'm mixed on. These are expensive like the Bungalows (a little less, but still expensive)... They lack the transportation options, they have rather long walks to get to the bus, and they are competing with 2B's right next door in both CC and BR. They're also not going to draw the top-dollar customer that the Poly will draw because those guests want to be in the Poly or GF for the access and convenience. If I'm going to pay 108 for a 2B Cabin, I might as well pay the extra 27 points to get the Bungalow. So I currently think the Cabins are going to be a tough sell.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think the argument made above is then you just get 2 Studios. Which seems fine

A bunch of the people I've seen making that argument would need to add on for that, so we'll see. There's a reason they're saying ONE studio will be fine, and that's because they didn't buy points for two. This seems to be happening with people purchasing the "sleeps 5" studios, anecdotally.

 

[disneynutz]

I never like this argument that the general populous outside the Dis is uninformed and buys what Disney tells them to. DVC owners I know in real life are smart people and make educated purchases.

I have to disagree, if buyers were informed and educated in the world of DVC, very few would be spending thousands more to buy direct.

Bill

 

[MrInfinity]

I have to disagree, if buyers were informed and educated in the world of DVC, very few would be spending thousands more to buy direct.

Sure we can disagree. But if everyone only bought resale, the price of resale would rise until it approached that of direct. We are seeing this now. I have toyed with the idea of buying Poly -- but with the price @ $145 vs $176 direct, resale isn't doing it for me. I would buy direct for the $30 more. Now BLT under $100, I would buy resale. But you can't get that now so it's moot. Both options have a place so I feel your statement is overgeneralizing to say that anyone who buys direct is uninformed and/or uneducated. I know people who have bought direct, and they are not uninformed, nor uneducated.

ETA...
You should never buy a new car because they lose 1/2 their value when you drive off the lot. However, lots of educated, informed buyers buy new cars.
You should never buy a soda from a machine for $3 because you can get a case for that at Costco. However, lots of educated, informed buyers still buy soda.
With many things in life, getting the absolute cheapest price is not necessarily the driving factor.

 

[disneynutz]

Sure we can disagree. You're saying if you're informed you'd only buy resale (or a tiny direct). But if everyone only bought resale, the price of resale would rise until it approached that of direct. We are seeing this now. I have toyed with the idea of buying Poly -- but with the price @ $145 vs $176 direct, resale isn't doing it for me. I would buy direct for the $30 more. Now BLT under $100, I would buy resale. But you can't get that now so it's moot. You're lucky to find one at $140. Both options have a place so I feel your statement is overgeneralizing to say that anyone who buys direct is uninformed and/or uneducated. I know people who have bought direct, and they are not uninformed, nor uneducated.

I said very few, not all. There are reasons to buy direct, we have bought several contracts direct. My point is that many of the direct buyers don't know about the DIS or buying resale. They are on vacation at a Disney property or on a cruise and they end up buying direct based on what they learned from the guide and the video. If you don't buy then and there the guide tells you that your special deal is only valid for 3 days, many trust Disney, they trust their new friendly guide, they don't take the time to research.

This isn't about what would happen if people only bought resale, it's about people buying what DVD is pushing because they don't know that they have other options. How many posts have we seen where the new owner asks questions looking for DVC education after the sale or the posts where they post that they didn't know that they could buy a different resort or select their UY? That sampling is here on the DIS which has a very small following compared to the thousands of direct contracts sold each year or the over 1.5 million WDW DVC points sold this year.

Bill

 

[ScubaCat]

That sampling is here on the DIS which has a very small following compared to the thousands of direct contracts sold each year or the over 1.5 million WDW DVC points sold this year.

That's the part that gets repeatedly missed in these conversations. Those of us who regularly read these forums are equivalent to one row in an entire sports stadium. Of all the people at the resorts I casually talk with about DVC, the vast majority are unaware of the resale market or even fully understand what they've bought. I'd say around 70% are shocked that there is a resale market, and others are "confused" about it due to DVD propoganda. (Most recent quote "aren't there some disadvantages to buying it that way?"... I rest my case on that point.)

We were at BCV a couple of weeks ago and this newlywed couple was proudly wearing their "owners since August 2017" buttons. They had, of course, bought Poly and the guide arranged their 1-time booking at BCV on DVD's inventory. The next time they decide to take a trip and go to book it themselves, they'll undoubtedly be in for a surprise.

 

[MrInfinity]

I said very few, not all. There are reasons to buy direct, we have bought several contracts direct.

Ok, sure. Very few vs all is just semantics. The concept of supply & demand still holds. If "very few" people bought direct and therefore "most" bought resale, then the price of resale would rise toward that of direct until the price gap between direct and resale justifies people switching back to buying direct -- like we are actually seeing happen. The resale price of Poly is just not there for me to feel that's a better value.

That sampling is here on the DIS which has a very small following compared to the thousands of direct contracts sold each year or the over 1.5 million WDW DVC points sold this year.

That's the part that gets repeatedly missed in these conversations. Those of us who regularly read these forums are equivalent to one row in an entire sports stadium.

These two quotes are why everyone buying resale wouldn't work. Good resale contracts are available only in very limited supply. If the direct buyers all looked at resale, only the first few would get a good deal, after which the supply would be dried up and future contracts would list closer to direct prices.

BTW this has gone off-topic... Maybe resale vs direct should be continued elsewhere to not derail this thread of Poly success.

 

[rowrbazzle]

I don't think we have enough info to be sure this is the case. We can guess but for us a family of 3 adults, we only bought DVC to get 2 bedrooms. I am sure others do too.

I'd be curious how that breaks down by when one bought. It's a lot easier to afford two-bedrooms when the points are purchased at $60, $70, $80 per point than at $120, $130, $140 (to say nothing of direct prices). Everyone's financial situation is different of course, but those who purchased years ago are in a much better position to stay in the bigger rooms. I'm jealous of those people.

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing the people who are insisting that squeezing 3 teens and 2 adults in Poly 15 years from now will still be perfect, if it really is still perfect.

Second shower aside, my thought is nothing is perfect when 3 teens are involved. Let alone a small space.

I think that's reasonable. I think it probably depends on the person, of course. I grew up as a family of 5 staying in Motel 6's and the like, even as teenagers. Any deluxe room at Disney is a massive upgrade for me.

 

[ScubaCat]

I think that's reasonable. I think it probably depends on the person, of course. I grew up as a family of 5 staying in Motel 6's and the like, even as teenagers. Any deluxe room at Disney is a massive upgrade for me.

Same here, but you get spoiled (and old and grumpy ) pretty quickly. Half my trips are with DW and her handicapped son ("age 35 going on 7" as I put it). We'd never even consider a studio these days, yet it never was an issue in the past.