Point Chart preferences, if they ever adjust for units...

In DVC ever adjusted the point chart, changing values of studios vs larger units...

  • Prefer cheapest possible studios at home resort to maximize nights, even if it limits other options

    Votes: 33 26.6%
  • accept studio point increase if it meant lots more studio availabity at 7 mo to try other resorts

    Votes: 16 12.9%
  • If points adjusted so 5 nights 1BR = 7 night studio, would jump to the 1 br

    Votes: 51 41.1%
  • If studio point costs increased, would buy more points to cover same number of nights

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • If studio points cost increased, would decrease nights or travel less often

    Votes: 18 14.5%
  • If studio points cost increased, would get rid of my DVC

    Votes: 4 3.2%
  • If studio points increased/larger units decreased, would happily take advantage of larger units

    Votes: 70 56.5%

  • Total voters
    124
Really, where is it? I've never found it. this is actually how I thought it would work. Points flow from resorts like OKW or SSR into the most popular resorts, rooms go unrented at SSR and the breakage split among all resorts. It makes sense and makes lemonade out of lemons: the most popular resorts get a MF reduction thanks to rooms rented at the least popular ones.

I should have been more clear, I have read it via many different posts here and elsewhere. Not in the POS.

But, that is one theory as to how all resorts max out since once you hit trading, all points can be used for the inventory as DVC vacation points....well, within the resale restrictions.

DVCM manages all the resorts so that is what has been speculated as to how they do it because the extra goes to Disney.

It is another reason why I don’t think they care which rooms get sold for cash and why they price the 1 bedrooms the way they do since many of those end up open. I think they get a good deal of profit once breakage income is capped and so for them, rooms are rooms.
 
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Makes me wonder if Disney’s statement for demand for 1 BRs includes data on *the cash demand* for open rooms they sell. If so it’s in their interest to make 1BRs less appealing to rent with points and remain open to sell to cash guests.
 
Makes me wonder if Disney’s statement for demand for 1 BRs includes data on *the cash demand* for open rooms they sell. If so it’s in their interest to make 1BRs less appealing to rent with points and remain open to sell to cash guests.

Possible...but they also have to balance within the charts and other than reducing or eliminating the lock off premium, as I said, I am not convinced raising studios a few points and reducing 1 bedrooms a few is enough to tip the balance with more owners changing things up.

I do not believe there was anything that required DVD to include a lock off premium when resorts were built, and I have not found anything that says you can’t rebalance across studios and 1 bedrooms using that lock off premium differently...even if across units is not allowed, since points charts are based on the 2 bedrooms.
 
I am not convinced raising studios a few points and reducing 1 bedrooms a few is enough to tip the balance with more owners changing things up.

I think it depends on how serious you are about balancing the room demand. I think getting under the 2x Studio cost would be the start.

My big issue is that this year it went opposite. Don't want to balance Studio vs 1BR fine don't do it at this point and lets talk in the future. However the opposite occurred at every resort I ran the numbers at (RIV, BWV, VGF) all of them saw points go from Studios to 1BRs in some capacity I might look to do additional resorts as well.

I do think the bigger issue right now is the seasons. So they should focus on that first.
 

This is not really a reallocation, more probably it's a rounding error, allowed within the constraint of a season reallocation which should be allowed a little bit of wiggle room.

I don't really buy in to it because they have room categories with 6, 14, and 20 nights. It would be fairly easy to get way closer than they currently are.

At RIV they are -129 and -43 off on Studios for the year in total points vs +107 and +229 for the 1BR. That is a 236 point difference in Standard View and 272 point difference in the Preferred View.

I am not saying Disney is not treating it like a rounding error possibly but there was an easy to to adjust the points. In addition you could have even removed a few points over a week in the April 24-30 category as an example if you needed additional points to add points to a larger room category.

If its a rounding error that is fine but they need to track it then again the baseline. Otherwise they rounding error another 2% gap in points followed by another 2% gap in points, ect.
 
I think it depends on how serious you are about balancing the room demand. I think getting under the 2x Studio cost would be the start.

My big issue is that this year it went opposite. Don't want to balance Studio vs 1BR fine don't do it at this point and lets talk in the future. However the opposite occurred at every resort I ran the numbers at (RIV, BWV, VGF) all of them saw points go from Studios to 1BRs in some capacity I might look to do additional resorts as well.

I do think the bigger issue right now is the seasons. So they should focus on that first.
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There are ups and downs for sure and one thing that was a definite is that they have not decided, on the whole, to close the gap between studios and 1 bedrooms.

As I mentioned, the difference in those two is really the lock off premium since the chart has to balance based on 2 bedrooms and only dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms..which not all resorts have.

Seasons are a great start and many travelers will benefit from the changes. I think June to August lowering is a good thing. 14 points a week less in a SV studio for RIV....is a nice bonus!!
 
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Seasons are a great start and many travelers will benefit from the changes. I think June to August lowering is a good thing. 14 points a week less in a SV studio for RIV....is a nice bonus!!

Ya hopefully more people will look at summer now I know I will likely plan a trip during that time more likely because of point reductions.

I will also just say I rarely will get a 1BR so Disney going opposite actually benefits me since I am flexible with dates as well to make sure I can grab a room.
 
Makes me wonder if Disney’s statement for demand for 1 BRs includes data on *the cash demand* for open rooms they sell. If so it’s in their interest to make 1BRs less appealing to rent with points and remain open to sell to cash guests.

Drop the old "due to member demand" and change it to "due to Disney's bank account demand". :rolleyes1

I'd have to think not but when a group has done enough questionable things it starts raising questions about more and more. The 1BR's going higher makes no sense to any member who watches availability or books late and is a perfect one to wonder about.
 
Drop the old "due to member demand" and change it to "due to Disney's bank account demand". :rolleyes1

I'd have to think not but when a group has done enough questionable things it starts raising questions about more and more. The 1BR's going higher makes no sense to any member who watches availability or books late and is a perfect one to wonder about.

Yeah I’m skeptical of their motives in this as well. Since every lock off which gets booked as studio creates lock off premium, changing point charts to increase demand for studio only translates to benefit for whoever gets the points from lock off premium. Given the membership is suppose to be ran for benefit of members are there any check that exist to get explanations on changes?
 
Drop the old "due to member demand" and change it to "due to Disney's bank account demand". :rolleyes1

I'd have to think not but when a group has done enough questionable things it starts raising questions about more and more. The 1BR's going higher makes no sense to any member who watches availability or books late and is a perfect one to wonder about.

I just had a thought. Give all the additional points around, maybe for 2022 they decide to make this type of adjust as more people will be forced into 1 bedrooms and have the points to do so?

It won’t go back, but I just wonder if that could have played a role?
 
I just had a thought. Give all the additional points around, maybe for 2022 they decide to make this type of adjust as more people will be forced into 1 bedrooms and have the points to do so?

It won’t go back, but I just wonder if that could have played a role?

Difficult to say and it might have but shouldn't have if it did. The only thing I've seen noted in the POS is to rebalance based on actual demand and they'd be speculating in that scenario.
 
Good point.
The reality is DVC never clarified how it is possible that resorts like VGC, VGF or BCV, who are exrtremely difficoult to book even at 7 months, could still hit the breakage limit every year, which means a lot of rooms go unrented at 2 months and are then sold for cash.
Someone has speculated that they can anticipate breakage based on historical patterns and rent the rooms that should be available at 2 months even before, to maximize revenue. If this is true, then they should suspend such practice at least in the couple of years after the Covid closures, since with the excess points historical patterns cannot be trusted at all.
But it's all a black box, I'm not sure we, as owners, are entitled to get an explanation about this.

I think it's likely Disney will "cover" a room with the most available points they have; their 2.5% ownership stake, their bought back but not yet resold - then "reallocate" them to breakage if there is availability at the 60 days cut-off - just like you can reallocate points when modifying a reservation. Otherwise, I don't know how they could offer rooms more than 60 days away.
 
I think it's likely Disney will "cover" a room with the most available points they have; their 2.5% ownership stake, their bought back but not yet resold - then "reallocate" them to breakage if there is availability at the 60 days cut-off - just like you can reallocate points when modifying a reservation. Otherwise, I don't know how they could offer rooms more than 60 days away.

Members trade out.
 
I think it's likely Disney will "cover" a room with the most available points they have; their 2.5% ownership stake, their bought back but not yet resold - then "reallocate" them to breakage if there is availability at the 60 days cut-off - just like you can reallocate points when modifying a reservation. Otherwise, I don't know how they could offer rooms more than 60 days away.

Because the POS gives them the authority to pull rooms and offer them for cash based on anticipation,

Now, they have their own points which they can use for bookings under the dame rules as all owners. I doubt those rooms are the breakage ones because they don’t need to anticipate to use points.

The anticipation clause appears to be for breakage type rooms so in that sense, I think they just get to offer.

Plus, as mentioned, when members trade, they get to take a room. There is nothing that says the room has to the same home resort either.
 
I think it's likely Disney will "cover" a room with the most available points they have; their 2.5% ownership stake, their bought back but not yet resold - then "reallocate" them to breakage if there is availability at the 60 days cut-off - just like you can reallocate points when modifying a reservation. Otherwise, I don't know how they could offer rooms more than 60 days away.
Every time someone books a Studio that is part of a lock off at 11 months, they are giving Disney points to resell. That’s how the lock off premium works.

The number of total points to sell for the resort is based on a 2BR lockoff being sold as a 2BR. Take a 2BR that is 40 points, with the studio 15 and the 1BR 29. When someone rents the studio part for 10 days, it guarantees that Disney will get 440 total points for that 2 bedroom that goes for 400 (150 for the studio and 290 for the attached one bedroom). Which, because the number of room nights for the total resort is based on the Lower 2BR number, means that 1 room will go unoccupied for 1 night, because now there aren’t enough points left between all the other owners to rent all the rooms on all the nights that year. So the room could sit empty, or Disney could take that room night and sell it for cash.

Which do you think they do?
 
Every time someone books a Studio that is part of a lock off at 11 months, they are giving Disney points to resell. That’s how the lock off premium works.

The number of total points to sell for the resort is based on a 2BR lockoff being sold as a 2BR. Take a 2BR that is 40 points, with the studio 15 and the 1BR 29. When someone rents the studio part for 10 days, it guarantees that Disney will get 440 total points for that 2 bedroom that goes for 400 (150 for the studio and 290 for the attached one bedroom). Which, because the number of room nights for the total resort is based on the Lower 2BR number, means that 1 room will go unoccupied for 1 night, because now there aren’t enough points left between all the other owners to rent all the rooms on all the nights that year. So the room could sit empty, or Disney could take that room night and sell it for cash.

Which do you think they do?

Which I think is why we see all resorts hit the breakage maximum every year....lots of extras being sold for cash..and of course, the money above the maximum goes to DVCM and others!
 
While I agree the structure of studio to 1 bedroom makes those less desirable, I think the point is that DVC resorts were built with that structure...other than Poly...so, at this point, 1 bedrooms will continue to be much higher points than those that want studios will spend,

What happens is that those un booked 1 bedrooms go to Disney for breakage so in one sense, we get some benefit from that.

Now, what they could do is build another DVC that has many more studios than 1 bedrooms and then make the charts reflect that.

But, right now, SSR, OKW, and AKV are large enough that studios are possible to get for quite a long time into the home resort window,

If I was depending on studios, those are great options for ownership. Those that want near park resorts are going to fight with other home resort owners since not much can be done.

It would be interesting to see at what point, those that said they’d move to a 1 bedroom if points were less and studios were raised, what that rise would have to be.

One huge complaints about RIV has been the high cost of a studio in comparison to all the other resorts so I’m just not sure how well the increase at other places would go over if it was more than 1 or 2 points. I am not sure if a change in 1 bedrooms by a few points a night would be enough to move the needle in terms of balancing demand between the two.

Only way to make the demand more even I think it to either change the entire purpose of a living room or you can increase occupancy or make the cost pretty much the same,

Someone who bought for studio use may not even have the points to jump to a 1 bedroom, even if it was only half the difference.

I personally believe today’s DVC buyer buys for mostly studios where years ago, they did not.

I agree 100%. Don't muck with it.

I knew 1 bedrooms were costly when I bought. We looked closely at the points chart, saw the point differences, and still bought with them in mind because a studio just feels like another hotel room. We wanted the Villa feel. I didn't know it at the time, but they also book last and I like the flexibility that brings. We got lucky there. I have some sympathy for someone who bought for studios and didn't know, but that's not really anyone else's fault.

I see studios as the discount option, so it makes sense that someone would have to work harder to get one. It's like anything you buy that's desirable - if you don't get there early enough, prepare to have to fork over some more for the next option.

I didn't cast a vote for the survey because I didn't feel that one really fit. In future resorts I'd like to see a higher studio ratio to reflect current buyers, and also an occupancy limit of 4 to a studio, 5 in a 1 bedroom.
 
I haven't read through all of the responses yet, but I chose raise the cost of studios and lower 1 and 2 BRs. The reasoning is simple: I used to almost always reserve 2BRs. But the dynamics of the groups I bring to Disney have changed, and studios work decently... especially since I can sometimes book 3 studios for the equivalent of a 2 BR. I have enough points for either, but why waste them? This difference in point values makes it even harder for those with a small number of available points, because they are competing with people who have more points and are booking more studios.

Case in point: I'm bringing in a good size family group for the 100th next year. I ended up booking 6 studios instead of 2 2 BRs.
 
With over 100 people voting in this poll, I wanted to reflect on the findings.
Poll allowed participants to pick up to 3 choices, and 3 choices were way above all the others:

28% of people simply want the studios to be as cheap as possible. This is LOWER than I expected, honestly. There are definitely a number of people who maximize their points for the most days, booking studios exclusively. But at least on this forum, those people are overall still a minority. A large minority, but a minority.

56% -- a slight majority, would happily take advantage of booking larger rooms if the gap between studio and 1BR closed a bit. (I'm sure it would depend on just how much the gap closed).

What I found interesting -- If the price of a studio for 7 days was equal to the price of a 1 BR for 5 days, a large number -- 38%, would take the 1 bedroom for 5 days.
Right now, depending on the resort, season, etc... It can be closer to 7 days studio = 3 days 1 BR.
Very few people indicated they would add points if studio prices increased. (just 2 votes out of over 100).
So interesting but not surprising -- a fairly large number of people would be willing to trim their vacation by 2 days to get a nicer and bigger unit. I suspect if this was 7 days studio / 6 days 1 bedroom, we might even get a majority going to 1 bedroom. And if it was more like 7/4, then fewer would be willing to trade. At the current 7/3-- I don't see many people making that trade. They either own enough points knowing they want to book 1 bedrooms specifically, or they combine multiple years for 1 br, or they only stay in 1 BR if their annual trip is a weekend as opposed to a week. But most annual-week-long 100-150 point owners will be sticking to studios.
But it seems more of those 150 point owners could be tempted to upgrade to an occasional 1BR, if their 150 points could get them 4-5 nights instead of 3-4 nights.


As has been noted, this all traces to to the lockoff premium. Unless you suddenly had a tremendous number of 2BR bookers, the lockoff premium guarantees that it would take more points to fully book a resort, than are actually sold for the resort. (ie, for example a resort may sell a total of 5 million points but it actually would require 5.5 million to fully book the resort).

I suppose there are a few ways this benefits DVC members, and a few ways it hurts DVC members while helping Disney:
1 -- it makes it nearly impossible for a resort to be consistently booked up prior to the 7 month window. Sure, it can happen for a few days here and there. But there will almost always be at least some availability for home resort bookers, prior to the 7 month window.
2 -- Connected to the above, there will almost always be at least some 7 month availability at most resorts most days of the year.
3 -- Makes it easier for Disney to temporarily take rooms out of circulation (whether for ordinary maintenance issues, or for scheduled refurbishments).
4-- Gives Disney more of an inventory for cash rooms.

Effectively, the "resort total points" becomes a semi-fictional number based on the lockoffs. But then when you breakup the lockoff, 1 bedrooms suddenly cost a lot more. And there just aren't enough sold points out there to book all the rooms anymore.
Closing/narrowing the lockoff premium would give owners the benefit of actually getting to use all the rooms in their resort. But would take away the flexibility for maintenance, refurbs, etc.

Of course, a potential solution would be: Sell fewer points but no lock-off premium. If a resort truly has 5 million points, only sell 4.5 million. Instead, they use the lockoff premium to artificially raise the point prices, thereby creating reserve points.
 
I came across the cash discounts for our trip next month. Quite a difference from points in upgrade cost to 1BR, more than I'd previously thought. It's still cheaper owning DVC either room size but the savings for 1BR can be much smaller than studios.

BCV 4 nights (1/8-12) averages $410/nt Studio or $550/nt 1BR (cash are all pre-tax), 33% increase as opposed to near 100% increase when using points (107 vs 211/wk).

BLT villas 8 nights 1/8-16 (both lake views) avg $488/nt Studio or $563/nt 1BR. Only a 15% increase in cash price while points are almost double as well (128 vs 241/wk).

Had to check OKW too after noticing Studio vs 1BR were more than double the points here.
7 nights 1/8-15, $290/nt Studio or $347/nt 1BR is 20% increase while 78 vs 167 points is over 110% increase.
 


















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