Point Chart preferences, if they ever adjust for units...

[sethschroeder]

Definitely trying to figure out a little more RIV. PV studios are the only one that appears to have a few more points overall in 2022 over the others. Because of Easter not being during it, the season 6 that went up 5 points for the week, has 15 extra days in 2022 over 2021.

Could those extra points, since there are so many more PV rooms be enough to offset the decrease in SV rooms for the year?

Towers, Standard, and Preffered all decreased for Studios. They all increased for 1BRs for total points for the year.

The fact they went in opposite directions means it has nothing to do with the calendar and when dates hit.

 

[Sandisw]

Towers, Standard, and Preffered all decreased for Studios. They all increased for 1BRs for total points for the year.

The fact they went in opposite directions means it has nothing to do with the calendar and when dates hit.

The points to stay in a PV studio in season 6 for 2022 is up 5 points per week, Season 4 went up 2 points for the week.

I get some of the total points assigned for the year analysis, but when looking at what a trip is going to cost, certain times of the year in a PV studio will be more, not less

That is what I was discussing.

 

[sethschroeder]

So in regard to this thread DVC seems to be going in the exact opposite direction. For both BWV and RIV (where I own) they moved at least some of the total point allotment from Studios to 1BRs.

Which is the exact opposite direction of what this thread was thinking should or would happen.

 

[CastAStone]

So in regard to this thread DVC seems to be going in the exact opposite direction. For both BWV and RIV (where I own) they moved at least some of the total point allotment from Studios to 1BRs.

Which is the exact opposite direction of what this thread was thinking should or would happen.

Bananas.

 

[RoseGold]

So in regard to this thread DVC seems to be going in the exact opposite direction. For both BWV and RIV (where I own) they moved at least some of the total point allotment from Studios to 1BRs.

Which is the exact opposite direction of what this thread was thinking should or would happen.

Makes sense to me when you're going to be selling RIV for several more years. That's how they do all the math in the brochure. The studio rate vs the ridiculous RIV rack rate, which I would be shocked if anyone has ever actually paid.

Adjust it back when RIV sells out.

 

[sethschroeder]

Makes sense to me when you're going to be selling RIV for several more years. That's how they do all the math in the brochure. The studio rate vs the ridiculous RIV rack rate, which I would be shocked if anyone has ever actually paid.

Adjust it back when RIV sells out.

Its the same story with BWV though as well moving Standard Studio points over to 1 Bedroom Preferred.

So this really isn't in relation to selling anything by DVC. I haven't run all the other resorts as these are the two I own.

 

[New Mouse]

The point of why the bungalows were built wasnt to sell to whales, it was to create a large number of small contracts out of much less land and many fewer rooms.

Disney knew from day one many if not most of these would not rent to full occupancy at those prices, but it allowed then to get more cash out of Poly DVC than was initially possible with just studios.

At the end of the day though the burden is on the owners... dvc can take them for a cash rental, points will expire or points will be moved elsewhere.

The point chart adjustments are "supposed" to benefit the members hence bungalows should be dropped substantially over a period of years until they find that equlibrium.

Yes, that would make it extremely deceptive because the studio price would go up to compensate...but dvc also isnt advertised or sold in a way thats meant to be transparent...

 

[zavandor]

Also Tower Studio possibly is considered a Studio and all 3 categories can balance just like standard, Lake, theme at BLT.

My understanding of the Florida law is that the points for a "Timeshare Unit" must stay in balance.
And the definition of a "Timeshare Unit" matches, in my opinion, to any bookable room (either studio, pod, 1BR, 2BR or GV). But even if the less restrictive interpretation that it matches the Units as defined in the POS is true, points cannot be rebalanced across all studios sizes and views, because they're defined in different Units. Unless units all contain the same set of pods, standard and preferred studios.. In that case, if a "Timeshare Unit" matches a DVC "Unit", there might be some wiggle room, but even if one single Unit has a different composition, it would be extremely difficult to keep Units in balance.

 

[RoseGold]

But even if the less restrictive interpretation that it matches the Units as defined in the POS is true, points cannot be rebalanced across all studios sizes and views, because they're defined in different Units.

Across the board, this rebalance has added points to 1BRs and to some preferred rooms. Like take the BLT 2BR theme park view. It stayed the same in a couple places, but everywhere else it went up. It went down nowhere.

 

[zavandor]

Across the board, this rebalance has added points to 1BRs and to some preferred rooms. Like take the BLT 2BR theme park view. It stayed the same in a couple places, but everywhere else it went up. It went down nowhere.

This would be illegal. How did you do the calculations?

 

[sethschroeder]

This would be illegal. How did you do the calculations?

It's total points for the year booking all days for each room type.

BWV had Studio Standard - > 1BR Preferred
RIV had Studios Tower/STD/PREF - > 1BR STD/PREF
VGF had Studio Standard - > 1BR Standard

I looked at Poly and that didn't seem to have a change. Otherwise every resort I pulled information on has had this. Not a huge change but a change none the less.

Also from others they have outlined Units for DVC could actually include Studios, 1BR, 2BR all together. I am not really sure though.

 

[Lorana]

I have no idea why they made that change in 1 season at the Boardwalk. Not uncommon for 1 BR to be 100% to 110 more expensive than studio.... But that pushes the difference up to 135%.

This is really my “gripe” right here. I don’t disagree that 1BRs should be worth more. But MORE than double the studio cost is ridiculous.
One of the reason we actually started booking 2BRs was that at many resorts, the 2BRs aren’t significantly more than 1BRs.
For example, BRV for the first half of December is 107 for a studio for a week, 218 for 1 BR, 278 for 2BR. If I didn’t want the kitchen and communal space, I could do 2 Studios for 214 - LESS than a 1 BR. But if I wanted that kitchen and living space, even though it’s still 60 points more, I just feel less like I’m being grifted booking the 2BR than the 1 BR when traveling with the kids or family.

We’ve honestly started booking more studios, whereas we booked more 1BRs as cash guests. It’s partly a psychological thing. I just have a hard time sometimes spending more than double points on a 1BR. But if the studio was 107 and the 1BR 199? I’d do the 1BR more often because it would feel more equitable / less like I was being milked.

 

[zavandor]

I have calculated how many points it would take to book every night of the year each category at RIV. Those are the totals for 2021:


And those are the totals to book the whole 2022, with the new point chart:



This calculation doesn't take into account the base year, so part of the difference might be cause by that.
Fluctuation is within 2%, which I think it's acceptable. It would be impossible to balance each category perfectly.
I don't now exact number of rooms in each category, so I cannot check the total for the whole resort.

 

[havoc315]

This is really my “gripe” right here. I don’t disagree that 1BRs should be worth more. But MORE than double the studio cost is ridiculous.
One of the reason we actually started booking 2BRs was that at many resorts, the 2BRs aren’t significantly more than 1BRs.
For example, BRV for the first half of December is 107 for a studio for a week, 218 for 1 BR, 278 for 2BR. If I didn’t want the kitchen and communal space, I could do 2 Studios for 214 - LESS than a 1 BR. But if I wanted that kitchen and living space, even though it’s still 60 points more, I just feel less like I’m being grifted booking the 2BR than the 1 BR when traveling with the kids or family.

We’ve honestly started booking more studios, whereas we booked more 1BRs as cash guests. It’s partly a psychological thing. I just have a hard time sometimes spending more than double points on a 1BR. But if the studio was 107 and the 1BR 199? I’d do the 1BR more often because it would feel more equitable / less like I was being milked.

It's not psychological. As cash guests, a 1 BR is never twice the price of a studio. It's typically only about 50% higher than a studio. In many cases, guests would find it cheaper to book a 1 BR with cash as opposed to renting DVC points as $20 per point. But a studio is always cheaper with points.

Good question too, what should be more expensive -- 2 studios or a 1 bedroom.
- They typically would have the same SQ footage.
- 2 studios would sleep a lot more people than a 1 bedroom
-2 studios would have 2 bathrooms, a 1 BR only has 1 bathroom
-The 1 BR does have full kitchen and laundry

So it's extra sleep surfaces and extra bathroom vs kitchen/laundry, all in the same approximate square footage.
Seems like a pretty even trade. Doesn't make sense for the 1 BR to be significantly more expensive than 2 studios.

 

[RoseGold]

This would be illegal. How did you do the calculations?

Well, call the Orange County Sheriff then. BLT 2BR Theme Park. Changes are one point higher for weekdays seasons 2-4. Weekend is one point cheaper in season 4. You can see it on the charts.

Everything else is the same. As long as there are more weekdays than weekends in season 4, that can't be zero sum, even just in season 4.

 

[zavandor]

Well, call the Orange County Sheriff then. BLT 2BR Theme Park. Changes are one point higher for weekdays seasons 2-4. Weekend is one point cheaper in season 4. You can see it on the charts.

The law requires that the points needed to book the room for the whole year must remain constant. There is no requirement that it stays the same for each season. I do find it bizarre that they've changed some seasons so a studios is lowered and a 1BR is increased, but what counts if the total for the year. I just did the calculations for RIV and the year seems almost in balance

 

[zavandor]

Well, call the Orange County Sheriff then. BLT 2BR Theme Park. Changes are one point higher for weekdays seasons 2-4. Weekend is one point cheaper in season 4. You can see it on the charts.

Everything else is the same. As long as there are more weekdays than weekends in season 4, that can't be zero sum, even just in season 4.

It changed so little at BLT that any change is probably within a reasonable % change for each category, when considering the whole year.

 

[Leight19]

This would be illegal. How did you do the calculations?

It's total points for the year booking all days for each room type.

BWV had Studio Standard - > 1BR Preferred
RIV had Studios Tower/STD/PREF - > 1BR STD/PREF
VGF had Studio Standard - > 1BR Standard

I looked at Poly and that didn't seem to have a change. Otherwise every resort I pulled information on has had this. Not a huge change but a change none the less.

Also from others they have outlined Units for DVC could actually include Studios, 1BR, 2BR all together. I am not really sure though.

In the past I believe the total points have gone up across board due to reclassifying room (think akv downgraded some savana views to standard making it look like all points went up) so it would be legal as long as total points didn’t increase. For analysis above did you assume same number of each type of room as last year or was the math looking at just change in per room not accounting for how many rooms each type?

To me the increase in 1bedroom is hard to square away with the booking patterns we see. I’ve wondered the rational behind this move and am skeptical of the “good faith” aspects given the push to increase lock off premium last year which on surface only hurt dvc members for benefit of renting more rooms cash. I know there’s debate about what people would prefer but the booking patterns are aggregate of what people prefer and indicate studios are underpriced, 1BR and bungalow are overpriced. The cash rates which reflect overall demand also indicate this (though imperfect measure since dvc and general public are two separate pools of demand).

There’s uncertainty in legality of moving across room types but believe there’s some flexibility in what can be done if in best interest of members. To me, it makes sense the units are defined by the contract you purchase to (they didn’t sell contracts for studios vs 1br vs bungalows) and id hope law would allow them to adjust since unbooked rooms hurt dvc owners as cash which go to budget from rented rooms is always maxed anyway. My conspiracy glasses make me concerned that there’s financial driver to have lock offs go split vs 2 bedroom and having studios book quickly pushes more that direction. My more even mindset would be they see lockoffs book primarily as 1br and studio vs 2bedroom and naively think there’s less 2bedroom demand since they don’t consider time course where they book that way since all studios are taken blocking 2br and forcing people into 1br when studios were gone or other resorts when 2br are gone.

 

[zavandor]

To me, it makes sense the units are defined by the contract you purchase to (they didn’t sell contracts for studios vs 1br vs bungalows) and id hope law would allow them to adjust since unbooked rooms hurt dvc owners as cash which go to budget from rented rooms is always maxed anyway.

A counter to that is that people have bought knowing the room cost depend on size. People have bought DVC contracts for years and years when the POS stated that points could only be reallocated seasonally, not across unit types. For about the first 15 years of DVC, the accompanying documents to the POS; that DVC asked every owner to sign to declare they understood how the system works, stated that quite clearly.
Changing that and charging more for studios would hurt a lot those members who bought just for studios. That would be the "nuclear option" and in my opinion would be justifiable (if legal)* only if a lot of rooms go unrented to the point that people is not able to use their points at all. The fact that studios go faster than 1BR doesn't really matter. Bungalows might cause such issue, but the fact that members can use points at other resorts mitigates the problem.

* = DVC being a point system and the Florida statute being written with mostly a traditional week timeshare in mind, there is room for interpretation.

 

[Sandisw]

Well, call the Orange County Sheriff then. BLT 2BR Theme Park. Changes are one point higher for weekdays seasons 2-4. Weekend is one point cheaper in season 4. You can see it on the charts.

Everything else is the same. As long as there are more weekdays than weekends in season 4, that can't be zero sum, even just in season 4.

Where you may make up the difference though is in number of days in the season.

Season 4..I think.. is a lot larger than Season 2 so you’d have to account for that to know the true up or down.

I have not yet looked at BLT but the shifts in dates for seasons does seem to more bell curve the resorts and have a smaller number of days on the year that cost at the lowest and highest ends.