Point Chart preferences, if they ever adjust for units...

[dvc lover 1970]

I vote to leave things alone otherwise they might open a pandora's box. They have to balance the booking of one bedroom and studio combined to be more than that of the two bedroom. otherwise people (myself included) will book a one bedroom and studio in place of the two bedroom unit. This will significantly strain room availability and block off those who purchased for studio only rooms because larger point holders will be able to walk and lock out those looking for studio or one bedroom.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Points charts are not meant to reflect 7 month bookings. They are there to reflect the booking patterns for the resort owners during home resort time,

So, if a non resort owner is stuck with only 1 bedrooms to book because home resort owners took the studios then that is the way the system was set to work.

The changes last year which I predict we see continue this year for increasing fall travel times was long overdue and should help studios during that time. But I have a feeling we will be waiting longer than usual to get them

I agree with Sandi that the point charts are meant to reflect owner booking patterns and I agree that they are a Huge upgrade from a studio and warrant the point difference. It also is smart of DVD because there are probably a number of DVCers who purchase the minimum and add on for the larger rooms (we did that). And of those who add on, I think many or most purchases are direct and resale is really only a drop in the DVC bucket. Four of my co-workers are DVCers and they will only purchase direct for the ease and convenience.
So if a non-resort owner can only book 1 bedrooms they might look to DVD to purchase another 50 points.

 

[havoc315]

Points charts are not meant to reflect 7 month bookings. They are there to reflect the booking patterns for the resort owners during home resort time,

So, if a non resort owner is stuck with only 1 bedrooms to book because home resort owners took the studios then that is the way the system was set to work.

Has nothing to do with whether it's designed around 7 month availability. Like you said, they are meant to reflect booking patterns. If all the studios get booked, leaving some home resort owners without the ability to book a studio, even before the 7 month mark.. while leaving tons of 1 bedrooms open, then the point chart is doing a poor job of reflecting the booking demand patterns. Means at the existing point chart, they don't have enough studios and have too many 1 bedrooms. So the solution is either to convert those 1 bedrooms into studios, or adjust the point chart in order to balance the demand. CCV is a prime example of this.
7-month availability is just the reflection of whether the chart reflects a balanced booking pattern. If it does, then we would see similar availability at 7 months across room types, seasons, etc.
Mind you, it's not just 1BR vs studios. Arguably, some types of view rooms are overpriced.
They have done a fair job making adjustments to reflect seasonality better as they go along.

 

[sethschroeder]

I vote to leave things alone otherwise they might open a pandora's box. They have to balance the booking of one bedroom and studio combined to be more than that of the two bedroom. otherwise people (myself included) will book a one bedroom and studio in place of the two bedroom unit. This will significantly strain room availability and block off those who purchased for studio only rooms because larger point holders will be able to walk and lock out those looking for studio or one bedroom.

I don't think anyone is saying lower 1BR and not change anything else. I think most of the time it is lower 1BR, increase Studios. Exception might be Poly and CCV where Bungalows and Cabins come in to play and possibly are lowered in that case though its not the example you gave anyways.

Also I don't think anyone is saying adjust the total point pool for 2BRs either so those stay the same and simply balance for the seasons like outlined in the rules anyways.

 

[Sandisw]

Has nothing to do with whether it's designed around 7 month availability. Like you said, they are meant to reflect booking patterns. If all the studios get booked, leaving some home resort owners without the ability to book a studio, even before the 7 month mark.. while leaving tons of 1 bedrooms open, then the point chart is doing a poor job of reflecting the booking demand patterns. Means at the existing point chart, they don't have enough studios and have too many 1 bedrooms. So the solution is either to convert those 1 bedrooms into studios, or adjust the point chart in order to balance the demand. CCV is a prime example of this.
7-month availability is just the reflection of whether the chart reflects a balanced booking pattern. If it does, then we would see similar availability at 7 months across room types, seasons, etc.
Mind you, it's not just 1BR vs studios. Arguably, some types of view rooms are overpriced.
They have done a fair job making adjustments to reflect seasonality better as they go along.

But when I first bought the studio issues were not what they are today and IMO it is a direct result of DVD lowering minimums so newer owners can’t upgrade to a 1 bedroom.

When the minimum was 160, there was not the same issue as today at most of the resorts.

Looks like points charts are out and they did indeed move fall to higher seasons which will make a difference.

 

[havoc315]

Clearly, DVC didn't take my advice as to the 2022 point chart, lol..

But for those asking whether DVC can legally change the room-type points, not just seasonality -- the answer is clearly yes.
As point out by someone else and confirmed... Probably not the only example, but a week in a BWV studio first week of December went down by 5 points while a 1 BR went up by 5 points.
It was 78 Studio and 166 1 BR, it is now 73 studio and 171 1BR.

So yes, they absolutely can reallocate between unit types.

I have no idea why they made that change in 1 season at the Boardwalk. Not uncommon for 1 BR to be 100% to 110 more expensive than studio.... But that pushes the difference up to 135%.

 

[Sandisw]

Clearly, DVC didn't take my advice as to the 2022 point chart, lol..

But for those asking whether DVC can legally change the room-type points, not just seasonality -- the answer is clearly yes.
As point out by someone else and confirmed... Probably not the only example, but a week in a BWV studio first week of December went down by 5 points while a 1 BR went up by 5 points.
It was 78 Studio and 166 1 BR, it is now 73 studio and 171 1BR.

So yes, they absolutely can reallocate between unit types.

I have no idea why they made that change in 1 season at the Boardwalk. Not uncommon for 1 BR to be 100% to 110 more expensive than studio.... But that pushes the difference up to 135%.

Summer was adjusted so the change in 1 bedroom for December could have come from the reduction then vs, the studio?


ETA. The 1 bedroom in summer from mid June to mid August went from 218 done to 194. So that is a pretty hefty change and would account for a rise of 5 points in early December.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Clearly, DVC didn't take my advice as to the 2022 point chart, lol..

But for those asking whether DVC can legally change the room-type points, not just seasonality -- the answer is clearly yes.
As point out by someone else and confirmed... Probably not the only example, but a week in a BWV studio first week of December went down by 5 points while a 1 BR went up by 5 points.
It was 78 Studio and 166 1 BR, it is now 73 studio and 171 1BR.

So yes, they absolutely can reallocate between unit types.

I have no idea why they made that change in 1 season at the Boardwalk. Not uncommon for 1 BR to be 100% to 110 more expensive than studio.... But that pushes the difference up to 135%.

I haven't looked at the charts yet to verify but this isn't the 1st time they've shifted more points to 1BR's off of other villa sizes. 1st two reallocations they did back around 2010 they did. And I'm sorry but it never made sense to shift from studios to 1BR's. Or even 2BR's to 1BR's. I have no idea who is doing data analysis at DVC but I think they need to find someone new.

 

[havoc315]

First week of December seems to also have changes at Riviera..
Weekly..
---------------2021 -- 2022
Tower Studio 88 - 88
Studio std -- 116 - 116
Studi pfd -- 143 - 143
1BR std - 243 - 248*
1BR pfd - 305 - 305
2br std - 313 - 318*
2BR pfd - 377 - 382*
Grand -- 794 - 794

So notably, they increase 1 BR standard, and all 2 BRs, with no corresponding cut anywhere else. While keeping the other rooms the same.

Another quirk I see with Riviera..
Christmas week, they made raised the price of a tower studio noticeably -- by 7 points, while cutting standard deluxe studios by 2 points, and keeping everything else the same.

So they absolutely can adjust between units, not just seasons.

 

[havoc315]

I haven't looked at the charts yet to verify but this isn't the 1st time they've shifted more points to 1BR's off of other villa sizes. 1st two reallocations they did back around 2010 they did. And I'm sorry but it never made sense to shift from studios to 1BR's. Or even 2BR's to 1BR's. I have no idea who is doing data analysis at DVC but I think they need to find someone new.

They likely have *a reason.* But it does seem like they actively are gradually trying to push people away from 1 BRs, either down to studios or up to 2 BRs.
It really doesn't make sense. Especially where there are a lot of lockoffs, every studio booked leaves a 1 BR open, so you would think they would want to book them at the same rate.

There seem to be a few spots where 1BRs went up at the same time that studios came down.

Overall, the really big winners are early summer travelers, July travelers -- massive reductions in points in some cases. The effect of the reduction on the Grand Villa at the Riveira is nearly 100 points.

I wonder to what extent this will push people into the summer months.

 

[havoc315]

Summer was adjusted so the change in 1 bedroom for December could have come from the reduction then vs, the studio.


ETA. The 1 bedroom in summer from mid June to mid August went from 218 done to 194. So that is a pretty hefty change and would account for a rise of 5 points in early December.

Purely seasonal changes would move units in the same direction. Summer studios also moved lower -- yet they also moved lower in December?

 

[Sandisw]

Purely seasonal changes would move units in the same direction. Summer studios also moved lower -- yet they also moved lower in December?

They moved higher in October and November. I haven’t fully analyzed yet, but a quick look does seem like the reduction for the first 2 weeks of December in the studio can be accounted for in raises of studios in other seasons.

2021 charts had all of December same season and now it’s back to two as well. I have some fun this afternoon!

ETA. 2021 BWV studio for Dec 1 to 23 was 78. 2022 has Dec 1 to 14 as 73, a 5 point drop, but 15th to 23rd went to 85, an increase of 7. So, some of that decrease was picked up there I would think.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

TOverall, the really big winners are early summer travelers, July travelers -- massive reductions in points in some cases. The effect of the reduction on the Grand Villa at the Riveira is nearly 100 points.

I wonder to what extent this will push people into the summer months.

Really? That's not good to be shifting there so soon after opening and to pull points off the GV's into smaller accommodations. It hasn't happened too often - BLT was the 1st where they actually adjusted point charts before the resort even opened which led to lots of questions of where was the supporting use data.

 

[RoseGold]

If you take the average cost per year for a week, it costs six times as much to stay in a bungalow for a week than it does to stay in a studio. For Poly, I think it would drive people away from that resort.

Poly has like 400 studios and 20 bungalows. They could make the bungalows free, and it still wouldn't change the chart much.

 

[crisi]

But when I first bought the studio issues were not what they are today and IMO it is a direct result of DVD lowering minimums so newer owners can’t upgrade to a 1 bedroom.

When the minimum was 160, there was not the same issue as today at most of the resorts.

Looks like points charts are out and they did indeed move fall to higher seasons which will make a difference.

Second issue - people buying at more than one resort to get home resort advantage on booking. When there were only a few resorts, this wasn't as big of a deal. But now a lot of owners have small contracts for "Epcot resorts over F&W" or "MK resorts for taking the grandkids" - even if they own 200 or 300 points. Those small add on contracts only support studios as well.

 

[CastAStone]

I'm not sure, either. I tend to believe shifting points between room sizes is not allowed, and that, as well as other POS provisions, serves as a limit to lockoff premium increases.

I have trouble squaring that with them splitting SSR into standard and preferred rooms a few years back - none of the rooms have anything close to their original number of points anymore.

Not sure what you mean. Of course it’s more similar in size to a standard hotel room. While the larger villas are more similar in size to hotel suites.

And they should be priced accordingly.

I’m currently staying in a 1 bedroom suite with a full kitchen (not at Disney) that was $12 more per night than the cheapest basic hotel room at the same hotel. Supply and demand sets hotel Room prices. When demand is low prices fall. There’s a certain logic that 1BRs at SSR in the summer should be like 12 points a night.

 

[CarolMN]

I have trouble squaring that with them splitting SSR into standard and preferred rooms a few years back - none of the rooms have anything close to their original number of points anymore.

Don't particularly disagree, but just because they did it, doesn't mean it was "legal". Personally, I think what they did for the THV was much worse.

To the best of my knowledge, no one ever challenged the adjustment that split SSR into two views with different point requirements, and no one really challenged the THV adjustment, either.

I'm not sure if one even has standing to challenge if one doesn't own at SSR.

 

[sethschroeder]

So they absolutely can adjust between units, not just seasons.

I haven't looked closely at tower studios but it's possible another season offset that Tower change.

Also Tower Studio possibly is considered a Studio and all 3 categories can balance just like standard, Lake, theme at BLT.

 

[sethschroeder]

Okay I looked across the board at RIV and there seems to be a slightly shift of Studio points to 1BR points and possibly 2BR. I could be wrong but that is what I am seeing I know there was a chart by @i<3riviera that I will look at again to verify.

Why am I saying this?

Studios (Tower, Std, Pref) all had a slight decrease in 2021 vs 2022 total points
1BR (Std, Pref) all had a slight increase in 2021 vs 2022 total points
2BR (Std, Pref) had a tiny increase (less than 1BR) between 2021 vs 2022 total points
GV had a tiny decrease in 2021 vs 2022 total points

So it would seem some of the studio points ended up in the 1BR/2BR grouping. Which is opposite of what is being called for on this thread.

 

[Sandisw]

Okay I looked across the board at RIV and there seems to be a slightly shift of Studio points to 1BR points and possibly 2BR. I could be wrong but that is what I am seeing I know there was a chart by @i<3riviera that I will look at again to verify.

Why am I saying this?

Studios (Tower, Std, Pref) all had a slight decrease in 2021 vs 2022 total points
1BR (Std, Pref) all had a slight increase in 2021 vs 2022 total points
2BR (Std, Pref) had a tiny increase (less than 1BR) between 2021 vs 2022 total points
GV had a tiny decrease in 2021 vs 2022 total points

So it would seem some of the studio points ended up in the 1BR/2BR grouping. Which is opposite of what is being called for on this thread.

Definitely trying to figure out a little more RIV. PV studios are the only one that appears to have a few more points overall in 2022 over the others. Because of Easter not being during it, the season 6 that went up 5 points for the week, has 15 extra days in 2022 over 2021.

Could those extra points, since there are so many more PV rooms be enough to offset the decrease in SV rooms for the year?