Point Chart preferences, if they ever adjust for units...

[gisele2]

I think renting a studio is more like renting a hotel room. It does not really compare with the one bedroom and above. This said I will never rent a bungalow.

 

[havoc315]

I think renting a studio is more like renting a hotel room. It does not really compare with the one bedroom and above. This said I will never rent a bungalow.

Not sure what you mean. Of course it’s more similar in size to a standard hotel room. While the larger villas are more similar in size to hotel suites.

And they should be priced accordingly.

 

[AliceIn]

I think renting a studio is more like renting a hotel room. It does not really compare with the one bedroom and above. This said I will never rent a bungalow.

Exactly - this is why you wouldn't offset 1 and 2 bedrooms by raising pricing on studios. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Sandisw]

i think there should be an equitable balance. I think everyone should have an equal opportunity. I don’t think it should be unfairly discriminatory against anyone.

The only thing I will add is that the point structures have been this way and were set up that way from the start of when a resort goes for sale.

So, people know going in that to upgrade to a 1 bedroom from a studio you are going to spend a lot more, I guess I am not seeing how that is subsidizing someone else or if it even matters.

Sure, those that get shut out of studios will be forced into a 1 bedroom and a lot less nights, but isn’t that the nature of the program?

Again, if it is legal to do...many have said it is not in older resorts,...closing the difference somewhat would be nice...

Bigger issue really IMO is DVD selling contracts to new buyers at a much lower minimum than they used to to push the idea of studios being booked.

ETA: Having stayed in 1 bedrooms more often in recent years, they really are a huge upgrade and do warrant the points.

 

[havoc315]

The only thing I will add is that the point structures have been this way and were set up that way from the start of when a resort goes for sale.

So, people know going in that to upgrade to a 1 bedroom from a studio you are going to spend a lot more, I guess I am not seeing how that is subsidizing someone else or if it even matters.

Sure, those that get shut out of studios will be forced into a 1 bedroom and a lot less nights, but isn’t that the nature of the program?

Again, if it is legal to do...many have said it is not in older resorts,...closing the difference somewhat would be nice...

Bigger issue really IMO is DVD selling contracts to new buyers at a much lower minimum than they used to to push the idea of studios being booked.

ETA: Having stayed in 1 bedrooms more often in recent years, they really are a huge upgrade and do warrant the points.

No question 1 bedrooms are worth a lot more than studios. The problem becomes the difference between cash value and point value.
We don’t think of the points as random game points. We see the points as being an imperfect representation of a dollar trade value. And we see the DVC system as a system that provides a discount.

But in some cases, 1 bedrooms have such a high premium, you’re paying extra through DVC then if you just booked a cash room.
Example... a studio goes for $500 as a cash room, or 20 points through DVC. And you’d break even on your DVC purchase maybe after 7-8 years. The 1 bedroom goes for $750. Certainly, there would be no objection to setting it at 30 points. If 30 points, you’d break even after 7-8 years, just like a studio user. But in many cases, it’s more like 43 points. At which rate, you could go 25 years and still not break even. Is it ever “worth” paying more for a room via points, then you’d pay as a regular cash guest?

Now, you raise a critical point — people made their purchases in reliance on the existing point charts. So I agree, wholesale re-design would be a bit unfair to some people.

At the same time, they built the charts with a certain expected supply/demand. They should make adjustments to better handle supply/demand, to the extent patterns don’t meet their expectations.

 

[havoc315]

Exactly - this is why you wouldn't offset 1 and 2 bedrooms by raising pricing on studios. It doesn't make sense.

huh??? One thing has nothing to do with the other.

so let me understand, you think it’s reasonable to charge..
A DVC studio renter, $400 worth of points...
Charge a cash studio renter, $500 cash..
Charge 1BR renter, $750 cash..
Charge a 1BR DVC renter, $1100 worth of points?
DVC renters should pay more than cash renters, if they stay in 1 bedrooms?

 

[AliceIn]

huh??? One thing has nothing to do with the other.

so let me understand, you think it’s reasonable to charge..
A DVC studio renter, $400 worth of points...
Charge a cash studio renter, $500 cash..
Charge 1BR renter, $750 cash..
Charge a 1BR DVC renter, $1100 worth of points?
DVC renters should pay more than cash renters, if they stay in 1 bedrooms?

No idea how you came up with those numbers.

All I am saying is raising studio rates in order to make the fancier and larger units cheaper makes no sense to me.

 

[havoc315]

No idea how you came up with those numbers.

All I am saying is raising studio rates in order to make the fancier and larger units cheaper makes no sense to me.

Those are the actual numbers for a day I priced recently.

so it’s simple, should it be priced in a way where DVC members have to pay more than cash reservations?

I simply think all units should be priced in a fair way, so all DVC owners get a discount compared to cash guests.

 

[sethschroeder]

I don't see why the people who bought in for the studios should have to subsidize the people who want the fabulous places.

I already see studio only people as subsidizing the bungalows though. It just happen that not only are studios subsidizing the bungalow share of MFs they also are "worthless points" at Poly.

What do I mean? A good amount of points annually are simply unable to be used at POLY because no one will book those Bungalows.

The good thing though is that without 1BR/2BR at the resort a large enough group choose to stay at other resorts. We will see in 2042/54/57 how that starts to impact POLY as the number of resale locations reduces and more resorts join the RIV bucket of resorts off limit to newer resale owners.

Unlike RIV where they don't have to deal with Bungalows/Cabins you have a large chunk of points in the last 2 resorts sold without restrictions locked in to room types that don't get booked typically from the sounds of it.

 

[sethschroeder]

ETA: Having stayed in 1 bedrooms more often in recent years, they really are a huge upgrade and do warrant the points.

I brought this up recently to the comment about DVC thinking 1BR is in more demand than 2BR. The biggest issue is that Studios/1BRs have a huge pool of rooms and 2BR is tiny.

What would be nice is if Disney built their resorts in this manner down a hallway:
s - 1b - s - s - s - 1b - s - s -s - 1b - s

Then have every room interconnecting. What would this do? It would open up more potential room types and would increase the studio totals as well. Another thing could be a "premium" studio layout with a full kitchen but the single room.

New List of Room Types (cheapest to most expensive):

• Studio
• Studios Connecting (1BR "lite")
• 1BR
• Studio + Studio + Studio (2BR "lite")
• 1BR + Studio (2BR)
• 1BR + Studio + Studio (3BR / GV "lite")
• Grand Villa

I am doubtful I see myself buying in anywhere except Riviera or SAP (Resale) in the future. I could be persuaded though with a resort with that kind of flexibility.

 

[Sandisw]

No question 1 bedrooms are worth a lot more than studios. The problem becomes the difference between cash value and point value.
We don’t think of the points as random game points. We see the points as being an imperfect representation of a dollar trade value. And we see the DVC system as a system that provides a discount.

But in some cases, 1 bedrooms have such a high premium, you’re paying extra through DVC then if you just booked a cash room.
Example... a studio goes for $500 as a cash room, or 20 points through DVC. And you’d break even on your DVC purchase maybe after 7-8 years. The 1 bedroom goes for $750. Certainly, there would be no objection to setting it at 30 points. If 30 points, you’d break even after 7-8 years, just like a studio user. But in many cases, it’s more like 43 points. At which rate, you could go 25 years and still not break even. Is it ever “worth” paying more for a room via points, then you’d pay as a regular cash guest?

Now, you raise a critical point — people made their purchases in reliance on the existing point charts. So I agree, wholesale re-design would be a bit unfair to some people.

At the same time, they built the charts with a certain expected supply/demand. They should make adjustments to better handle supply/demand, to the extent patterns don’t meet their expectations.

Not sure that the cash to DVC needs to be the same. For example, when I bought in 2009, we traveled 5 to 6 nights every year,

When deciding to buy, I knew studios would be a savings over time or I could stay in the 1 bedrooms for the same or similar price to what I was paying for cash rates...with a discount...for a deluxe hotel room,

So, there are certainly ways to look at things differently. I think part of the reason the cash rates from studio to 1 bedrooms isn’t as great for cash guests is because they need to be in order to entice those to be booked.

As is I said, if DVD went back to the 160 minimum that was in play when I bought, I do wonder if the situation would be different because it was for at least the first 5 years of my owning. Studios did not book to the level they do now in terms of speed.

 

[havoc315]

Not sure that the cash to DVC needs to be the same. For example, when I bought in 2009, we traveled 5 to 6 nights every year,

When deciding to buy, I knew studios would be a savings over time or I could stay in the 1 bedrooms for the same or similar price to what I was paying for cash rates...with a discount...for a deluxe hotel room,

So, there are certainly ways to look at things differently. I think part of the reason the cash rates from studio to 1 bedrooms isn’t as great for cash guests is because they need to be in order to entice those to be booked.

As is I said, if DVD went back to the 160 minimum that was in play when I bought, I do wonder if the situation would be different because it was for at least the first 5 years of my owning. Studios did not book to the level they do now in terms of speed.

You just said the key!
For cash guests, Disney needs to price the 1 bedrooms at a certain level to entice guests.

But same goes for DVC— so many remain vacant simply because they are priced too high.

 

[gisele2]

Not sure what you mean. Of course it’s more similar in size to a standard hotel room. While the larger villas are more similar in size to hotel suites.

And they should be priced accordingly.

Well , I was not really clear.... what I tried to explain , is that I bought DVC for the two and three bedrooms villas. And I think it is fair for me to pay more points, but I think the bungalows are way too expensive for the space that you have.

 

[havoc315]

Well , I was not really clear.... what I tried to explain , is that I bought DVC for the two and three bedrooms villas. And I think it is fair for me to pay more points, but I think the bungalows are way too expensive for the space that you have.

Yes, of course it’s fair to pay more for bigger units. The question is, how much more. It would be unfair if 1 bedrooms were priced the exact same as studios. It would be equally unfair if studios were 1 point per night and 1 bedrooms were 10,000 points per night.

Fair isn’t actually the word. Simply it would be bad policy, not in the interests of DVC ownership.

 

[sethschroeder]

Fair isn’t actually the word. Simply it would be bad policy, not in the interests of DVC ownership.

Too many people confuse personal interest with interest of all the owners. When a room goes unbooked it directly impacts DVC as a whole. When POLY has 25% of its points flood the rest of DVC at 7 months in directly impacts flexibility of every DVC owner.

In addition when you consider 25% of your points are "worthless" as home resort points that also impacts you as an owner.

Brought it up but POLY/CCV not RIV are the resorts I would worry about long term when you start seeing their trade out options disappear.

Rough estimate based on 2021 point charts:
Studios - 2,961,792 Points
Bungalows - 1,072,800 Points

 

[havoc315]

Too many people confuse personal interest with interest of all the owners. When a room goes unbooked it directly impacts DVC as a whole. When POLY has 25% of its points flood the rest of DVC at 7 months in directly impacts flexibility of every DVC owner.

In addition when you consider 25% of your points are "worthless" as home resort points that also impacts you as an owner.

Brought it up but POLY/CCV not RIV are the resorts I would worry about long term when you start seeing their trade out options disappear.

Rough estimate based on 2021 point charts:
Studios - 2,961,792 Points
Bungalows - 1,072,800 Points

Exactly the point I’m making. Meanwhile, appropriate “pricing” is good for everyone as a whole, even though some individuals will see their preferred unit/season go up in cost.

 

[gisele2]

Too many people confuse personal interest with interest of all the owners. When a room goes unbooked it directly impacts DVC as a whole. When POLY has 25% of its points flood the rest of DVC at 7 months in directly impacts flexibility of every DVC owner.

In addition when you consider 25% of your points are "worthless" as home resort points that also impacts you as an owner.

Brought it up but POLY/CCV not RIV are the resorts I would worry about long term when you start seeing their trade out options disappear.

Rough estimate based on 2021 point charts:
Studios - 2,961,792 Points
Bungalows - 1,072,800 Points

I get your point now , did not realise how bad this was ..... there is a inbalance between the total of points of bungalows and the total points for studios for sure. I tought it was a fifth of the total points that were taken by the bungalows not the third.

 

[Sandisw]

You just said the key!
For cash guests, Disney needs to price the 1 bedrooms at a certain level to entice guests.

But same goes for DVC— so many remain vacant simply because they are priced too high.

That is where we differ. I don’t think they are priced too high. I think there are too many owners who bought enough for studios only since DVD allowed it.

If studios are priced for DVC too high then DVD will have a hard time selling it as a cheaper option to cash.

But, some of the 2042 resorts with the low cost of rooms in general might be able to adjust in a way to even out demand. Not so much with BLT, VGF, Poly or RIV

 

[havoc315]

That is where we differ. I don’t think they are priced too high. I think there are too many owners who bought enough for studios only since DVD allowed it.

If studios are priced for DVC too high then DVD will have a hard time selling it as a cheaper option to cash.

But, some of the 2042 resorts with the low cost of rooms in general might be able to adjust in a way to even out demand. Not so much with BLT, VGF, Poly or RIV

There is a lot of wiggle room in the pricing of studios. Increasing them by 1-3 points per night would still leave them as a significant discount to cash rooms. And the slight decrease to studio demand would leave more options for studio bookers at 7 months. Meanwhile, the slight bump to demand for 1 bedrooms would balance things out.

 

[Sandisw]

There is a lot of wiggle room in the pricing of studios. Increasing them by 1-3 points per night would still leave them as a significant discount to cash rooms. And the slight decrease to studio demand would leave more options for studio bookers at 7 months. Meanwhile, the slight bump to demand for 1 bedrooms would balance things out.

Points charts are not meant to reflect 7 month bookings. They are there to reflect the booking patterns for the resort owners during home resort time,

So, if a non resort owner is stuck with only 1 bedrooms to book because home resort owners took the studios then that is the way the system was set to work.

The changes last year which I predict we see continue this year for increasing fall travel times was long overdue and should help studios during that time. But I have a feeling we will be waiting longer than usual to get them