POC - Good Enough yet? / Weekly Update

[crusader]

I thought that was the whole plan behind the ride movies? That the name had the built in recognition and audience....so using that assumption shouldn't your sentence above apply to Pirates as well?

Entirely different situations. I suppose you could argue that there is a group obsessed with the ride who would automatically line up to see this movie opening weekend but not nearly to the same degree as the comic books.

I believe AV had mentioned a title revision ensued because the Co. was concerned with respect to potential audience limitations placing too heavy a reliance on the ride's notoriety. I happen to think this made quite a difference by alluding to an intriguing storyline and plot right off the bat. It associated but disassociated the key component thereby avoiding an automatic unconscionable disconnect from those who don't relate well to the attraction itself. Quite an intelligible idea!

To invest $180 in a movie, ANY MOVIE, and to poorly invest in the marketing campaign of said movie is dumb....no matter WHAT company makes & markets the movie.

I agree. Not sure if you are saying Disney did or didn't spend enough here. It appeared to me that the advertising campaign was pretty extensive.

 

[HB2K]

Entirely different situations. I suppose you could argue that there is a group obsessed with the ride who would automatically line up to see this movie opening weekend but not nearly to the same degree as the comic books.

HUH?

Now who's twisting?

Spiderman was a success because there movie's subject had a built in audience, but Disney's publicly announced intent behind the ride movies was to capitalize on their brand name recognition (i.e. built in audience) but they're entirely different situations?

Come on....

I believe AV had mentioned a title revision ensued because the Co. was concerned with respect to potential audience limitations placing too heavy a reliance on the ride's notoriety.

No AV's post (if memory serves right) is that the Disney brand name is internally believed to be HURTING it's theatrical releases.

Thus the name / marketing change.

I agree. Not sure if you are saying Disney did or didn't spend enough here. It appeared to me that the advertising campaign was pretty extensive

But most of the money was spent on an internal shell game. I didn't see a whole lot of advertising other than through Disney owned channels.

Pirate brought up the point that Disney may not have marketed this movie properly, but then it was a defended move. Europa questioned that stance, which you then tried to bring personal preferrences into the arguement. I'm simply pointing out that if Pirate is correct, then it was a poor plan....irregardless of how you like or dislike the movie.

I don't know that Enron & Worldcom's situation is a fair comparison but I see your point.

I'm sorry if I gave that allusion. My point is after those company's rises through internal shell games, the investing community will see through the plan KVIKING brought up.

Once again, at this point Disney is no Enron or Worldcom.

Well, we're only talking about one movie here, but it is a movie that is nearing 100M (probably with today's numbers) after only 9 days (with its 2nd weekend still to come!), so their plan, however it was laid out seems to be working.

Only time will tell Peter. That's my point. The movie still has a long way to go just to break even....

 

[Peter Pirate]

Only time will tell Peter...

Well my friend, that's something we seem to have a lot of around here! Although I'll bet you personally have quite a bit less of it these days!!!

 

[HB2K]

LOL Peter!

 

[crusader]

Spiderman was a success because there movie's subject had a built in audience, but Disney's publicly announced intent behind the ride movies was to capitalize on their brand name recognition (i.e. built in audience) but they're entirely different situations?

Sorry. No spin intended - I just failed to elaborate. The comics have a proven historical track record of success at the box office. A movie about a ride doesn't. Also, the comic book characters are very popular - much much more than any disney attraction so the demographic to pull from is vast. A built in audience for PoC was purely speculative as not all Disney fans feel the same connection and there is no real track record to back it up. That's the difference.

No AV's post (if memory serves right) is that the Disney brand name is internally believed to be HURTING it's theatrical releases.

Well then I guess I slightly disagree with this assertion. The Brand name isn't Hurting anything. But the branding solely on the basis of an attraction doesn't guarantee anything beyond a core group of loyalists, which is a problem if your main objective is to get as many people as possible into the theatres opening weekend.

 

[HB2K]

Well then I guess I slightly disagree with this assertion. The Brand name isn't Hurting anything.

Then why are Disney only projects failing to find a customer or audience, whereas the rest of their perspective industries succeed?

As for your point between the deliminations....I don't agree with how you're spinning it, I don't see how you can make a difference between the built in audience for a comic book character and the built in audience for a theme park ride. But I guess we're at that fork in the road where we agree to disagree on that.

 

[lisajl]

Wow! We have some major movie critics on this board.

I don't mean anything by that either....so don't yell at me!

I have seen the movie once. Will I go again? Yes, why? Because I liked it!

Forget all that crap people talk about....you know...money, Oscars, actors, etc. The movies entertain me.
I want to escape from my everyday life.

I would escape with Johnny or Orlando at any time.
Would they want me? No....but I can dream can't I?

Maybe it's not an Oscar winning movie like Braveheart but it is good movie just the same.


Thanks for reading my vent....now....when can I talk my sister into going with me? Maybe tomorrow....There's a great big beautiful tomorrow.....

Lisa

 

[HB2K]

lisa-

It's great that you enjoyed the movie. I might when I finally get around to seeing it.

But our discussion is what you chose not to talk about...the measurements which determine if the movie is a financial success.

 

[lisajl]

OK- financial success= it makes more money than it took to make it.

Pardon me for interuppting...please proceed.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by lisajl
OK- financial success= it makes more money than it took to make it.

Ahh...so if you spent 140 million to make 141 million that would be a "financial success".

 

[lisajl]

If that is what it takes....



Where can I find these "numbers" everyone speaks of?

I would like to see the numbers for LXG.
Thanks..

 

[crusader]

Then why are Disney only projects failing to find a customer or audience, whereas the rest of their perspective industries succeed?

By prospective industries I am assuming you mean competitors? Well sticking to the motion picture industry it runs pretty cyclical with the big production outlets. Sometimes they're up and most times they're down. Right now Universal is struggling to find an audience much more than Disney. So no, their RECENT projects are not a failure. And even if you credit PIXAR with NEMO - Disney's name didn't hurt that picture.

In the theme park industry they are the top contenders - despite how we gripe here on the boards. So no name branding issue yet to be considered as a major problem there.

In the motel/hotel industry errr............resort industry they WERE having major capacity issues. I don't know how well the recent promo campaign has affected that situation but it may prove very promising. Again, I do not associate this with name branding.

In the television industry - BINGO! There we have it! ABC is at the bottom of the tank. This has nothing to do with name branding either. It has to do with PROGRAMMING!!!!!!!!!

Now there are so many other areas to digress to such as retail - I doubt if Disney DVD's are selling less because of the name Disney. The retail outlets closing no doubt the name branding in association with that level of product mix had a negative impact.

Believe me, if they really were failing to find a customer or audience they'd be out of business.

 

[KNWVIKING]

try www.boxofficemojo.com

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by lisajl
If that is what it takes....

You don't plan to stay in business too long do you?



If your talking about boxoffice numbers..then you can check here.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com

 

[lisajl]

I guess that is why I don't run a business. There is a place here in town that obviously does not make money, but is there for the convience of older folks that don't drive.

That businessman is barely staying a float, but he helps people in the community.

BTW...thanks for the link.

 

[Mouse Ears]

I think Pirates will hold up better than much of the summer fare that has gone before (Matrix, T3, Hulk, Charlies Angels, etc.) because of the differences in the hype.

Much of the hype I saw for the others was all about the 'highly-anticipated' film with way too much hype well before anyone is really paying attention. Pirates has had a much better build up. First, a bit of curiosity about Disney tying the movie to the theme park ride. Later, a teaser with little to excite, but supporting general awareness, and then a much more interesting preview. In the week leading up to the movie, there has been much positive press about the movie and the bash at Disneyland. Finally, the critics and word of mouth buzz on this movie is certainly better than I expected. This movie is seeming to actually live up to its muted hype.

That's why I reluctantly plunked my money down last night to see it for myself. I'm glad I did! It was exactly what a summer popcorn film should be... exciting, original, clever, provocative, etc. It had its own atmosphere and developed several great characters. I was honestly impressed.

I expect that Pirates will see a drop-off in its second weekend of less than 40%. That will be a success in this summer's movie climate and what I watch for to see if this one looks like it has legs. (I guess I'm not quite as brave as crusader to stick my neck out there already)

Also, I think that Disney has given it a bit of a boost by letting word get out that they are working on the sequel already. That shows that they are happy and confident of the movie's success. Much better than the Treasure Planet fiasco where they announced that it was ruining their financial return for the quarter after only 1 weekend.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Also, I think that Disney has given it a bit of a boost by letting word get out that they are working on the sequel already.

The very point I was just going to make. Not that Disney's judgement has been that great the last few years, but they obviously feel that Pirates is successful. I'm sure they had all the principal parties lined up for a possible sequel from the very beginning. Disney had the choice to say yay or nay to the sequel depending upon the success of the movie. Given that they have made the sequel public knowledge and it appears it may go forward Disney is indicating that they are happy with the success of this film.

As for legs, I'm in the "let's wait until this time next week" camp. It will be interesting to see people's takes on the dropoff this weekend. AV's early estimate was that it would have a 50% plunge, but that that was typical of a big studio summer movie. So would that be a failure? Would less than a 50% plunge be a resounding success? It will be interesting to see how it is all interpreted, but I agree we need more numbers to interpret first.

 

[Mooobooks]

The only new BIG Hollywood flick this weekend is Bad Boys II, which seems to be aimed at the young male market. Pirates of the Caribbean is bringing a lot of couples, older folks, and females into the theaters as well as young men, so it may do quite well this weekend even with Will Smith for competition. I don't think anyone expects The League of Extraordinary Stupidity to stay in the second spot for two weeks in a row.
I saw Pirates of the Caribbean for the third time last night, the first time in a theater with normal folks (first time was at the media event at Disneyland, second time was at the Pirate event on the 9th, and neither of those audiences could be considered average filmgoers)--many of the people here in Washington DC applauded at the end. Lots of laughter in the right places, no walk-outs that I could see.
Monster hit, folks, and the trailer for the Haunted Mansion movie looked reaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyyy good, too.

 

[Demosthenes]

FWIW, DW and I went back to see Pirates tonight. The 6:00 and 7:00 shows were sold out, and when we left the theatre, the line for Pirates was out the door.

 

[Another Voice]

A 50% drop off is considered "bad" - but it's what a lot of the movies have been pulling these days. Around 40% would be considered "okay" (although two years ago this would have been considered really, really bad). A drop of 30% or less would be considered "good".

The word aorund town was that the mid week figures were trending to a 43% drop.

We'll have to wait a couple days and see.


(too many posts - I can't keep up!)