PLEASE READ, because I think I have a real solution to AP issue (no joke)

[crisi]

And Doctor P has a good argument. The AP discount - while great for many of us, isn't great for all of us. It does make the 10% UPH discount that did work for some of us look less attractive. A similar discount on hoppers or UPHs could also work to Disney's advantage (I don't think Hoppers would work - but UPHs could get people who currently only go for seven days or less, can't make the AP pay out because of waterparks, DQ, etc, move from stretching hoppers to getting a UPH - and being tied to Disney. i.e it could make more DVC members happy and Disney happy.)

 

[Mike]

Originally posted by crisi
And Doctor P has a good argument. The AP discount - while great for many of us, isn't great for all of us. It does make the 10% UPH discount that did work for some of us look less attractive. A similar discount on hoppers or UPHs could also work to Disney's advantage (I don't think Hoppers would work - but UPHs could get people who currently only go for seven days or less, can't make the AP pay out because of waterparks, DQ, etc, move from stretching hoppers to getting a UPH - and being tied to Disney. i.e it could make more DVC members happy and Disney happy.)

But UPHs do nothing to entice the extra one or two additional visits a year which could potentially lead to adding on more points. I think that is a major part of the financial analysis behind this discount. True, converting a PH holder to a UPH holder could lead to more spending in the parks, but the benefit for Disney ends on checkout day.

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by crisi
And Doctor P has a good argument. The AP discount - while great for many of us, isn't great for all of us. It does make the 10% UPH discount that did work for some of us look less attractive. A similar discount on hoppers or UPHs could also work to Disney's advantage (I don't think Hoppers would work - but UPHs could get people who currently only go for seven days or less, can't make the AP pay out because of waterparks, DQ, etc, move from stretching hoppers to getting a UPH - and being tied to Disney. i.e it could make more DVC members happy and Disney happy.)

I understand where you are coming from. Sorry, I don't think that argument is effective at this time. There's nothing there that makes anyone at Disney have $$ appear in their eyes...especially compared to the potential revenue caused by an increase in AP holders.

If there comes a time when the UPH buyers stop buying in order to go to Universal...or DVC has the data to show that a majority of DVCers are chosing off-site entertainment options...I could see something like that happening.

 

[BCV23]

An AP/PAP actually gives you one extra day already. It is good for 366 days.

Dr. P, have you considered splitting the AP advantage over two trips by buying an AP for the last 4-5 days of your trip one year and the frst 4-5 of the second? Then start the cylcle over the 3rd year. I know it's not ideal for touring purposes but it would save you a lot as the 2nd year would be paid for. I also know it doesn't help you this year.

Good luck.

 

[crisi]

I don't know if its good or not. I didn't think the AP calculations would work out. I do know that there are still people who will make their seven day hopper last two years - take trips to Universal or SeaWorld, and aren't being tied to Disney any more with an AP than they were with just the discout on UPHs.

I don't think DVC sales were a driving force. If anything, Disney is having trouble keeping up with DVC sales, they don't need more incentives to purchase.

Its not the UPH buyers not buying. Its getting people to convert Hoppers to UPHs (the only media which ties you to the parks for the duration of your stay) or APs. I think this will depend on what the conversion rate for APs turns out to be. I talked to MS this morning making my reservations and chatted a bit about the AP. I asked if it was going over well "oh yes." I said it wouldn't work for us at this time but it was great for the people it worked for - "oh, yeah, we've heard that a lot - this is great for the people it works for, but its not going to work for a lot of people."

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Every member @ DVC has different circumstances that requires special planning needs. There's absolutely no way Disney would be able to come up with a special ticket/discount that would please everyone...unless they let us all in for free and even then we'd find something to complain about! I bought my membership expecting nothing but superior accomodations at a modest price -- anything else that comes along with it is a pleasant surprise. I may not be able to take advantage of all DVC has to offer but am happy that other members may be able to. I came to the horrible reality many, many, years ago that the whole world does not rotate around me (darn it, anyway!).

 

[lenshanem]

For someone who claims to be so busy with work, they sure do have alot of extra time to dwell on things. Just take a great big deep breath and let it go................

 

[mel&me]

Let it go man! Just let it Go.

 

[BCV23]

Originally posted by crisi
I don't know if its good or not. I didn't think the AP calculations would work out. I do know that there are still people who will make their seven day hopper last two years - take trips to Universal or SeaWorld, and aren't being tied to Disney any more with an AP than they were with just the discout on UPHs.

Crisi, I wasn't sure if you were responding to my post or not but the break even point for an AP is during the 8th day.....without the DVC discount. I think Dr. P goes for 9 days/8 nights. He could do 5 days/year.

And traveling at the time of the year, using the water park that is open is iffy. I would just pay for that seperately. That's what we do anyway. Of course if you go to DQ a lot...

 

[Doctor P]

BCV23,

You make an excellent point, and one that I very much appreciate you bringing up. I think that in working through it, and I actually figured this out this morning but wasn't going to post it for fear of having my head bit off again, Disney has created an incentive for us to do exactly what you have suggested, and I think the way calendars tend to fall it probably could work. Now, here is the very funny thing about that--and this is a factual statement and I am not whining. After this whole multi-thread discussion, and my vociferous objections, I find it really ironic that there is a way to make the annual pass discount work for us and it is a really perverse result: the annual pass discount works if we take shorter annual trips (once a year still) and go to the parks less. For trips in 2005 and 2006, I can get 9 days value out of an annual pass by only going to the parks the last four days of one trip and the first five days of the following year. If we used roughly the same number of points, we could stay in a 1BR rather than a studio and stay several fewer nights. This would allow us to save on 5-6 days of meals (which I budget at about $100 per day or a little more) and the incidental expenses for the 5-6 days in the parks. The cost savings on the passes would be about $320 for each person (or alternatively, days 10-14 would be costing us nearly $65 a piece to go to the parks if we didn't do the annual passes). So, I guess I have to admit that the annual passes COULD work for us under these circumstances. Now (and I am saying this totally with a smile on my face). So that means that I can save $1600 over the 14 night trip we normally would take by going 10 nights instead. Hmmmm.....wonder if I could buy off DW and DSD from 4 fewer days at WDW with some of this money, LOL! I'm sorry, but I am sitting here laughing that going fewer nights and going to the parks fewer days (the latter being an option even for longer trips) might be the solution to using a perk designed to get me to go MORE often or MORE nights and go to the parks MORE. Seems kinda strange, but I think it actually is true if you run the numbers, LOL.

 

[BCV23]

Glad it might work for you, Dr. P.

 

[crisi]

I wasn't speaking to Doctor P's situation - which I have an imperfect understanding of - but the situation in general. APs just aren't cost effective for everyone - even with the discount....people going just one week a year - or every other year, or every eighteen months. I suspect there are a lot more "shared contracts" out there than represented here on the DIS - two or three families stretching 150-200 points.

(However, they are tempting....which is the goal, isn't it).

I, myself, agree with calypso - the accomodations are the deal. I won't turn my nose up at discounts that work for me, nor feel sorry for myself if they work for others but not us. But, frankly, I'm not disappointed in the available discounts.

(Doctor P - you could use the "never expire" hoppers to bridge between APs. Those days would be slightly more expensive - but the AP days would be cheaper. You'd save less overall but have some pluses to work with, if they mean anything to you. Now, if you guys can figure out a way to fit seven days in October 2005 and seven in October 2007 into one AP - keeping one waterpark admission and one DQ admission into each trip, you'll save me money, too)

 

[Doctor P]

crisi,

Of course, you are definitely correct, and I appreciate you pointing that out even though I did realize that as an option. And, if we wanted to go to the parks more days, that would certainly be the way to go and it would save money.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Doctor P
BCV23,

You make an excellent point, and one that I very much appreciate you bringing up. I think that in working through it, and I actually figured this out this morning but wasn't going to post it for fear of having my head bit off again, Disney has created an incentive for us to do exactly what you have suggested, and I think the way calendars tend to fall it probably could work. Now, here is the very funny thing about that--and this is a factual statement and I am not whining. After this whole multi-thread discussion, and my vociferous objections, I find it really ironic that there is a way to make the annual pass discount work for us and it is a really perverse result: the annual pass discount works if we take shorter annual trips (once a year still) and go to the parks less. For trips in 2005 and 2006, I can get 9 days value out of an annual pass by only going to the parks the last four days of one trip and the first five days of the following year. If we used roughly the same number of points, we could stay in a 1BR rather than a studio and stay several fewer nights. This would allow us to save on 5-6 days of meals (which I budget at about $100 per day or a little more) and the incidental expenses for the 5-6 days in the parks. The cost savings on the passes would be about $320 for each person (or alternatively, days 10-14 would be costing us nearly $65 a piece to go to the parks if we didn't do the annual passes). So, I guess I have to admit that the annual passes COULD work for us under these circumstances. Now (and I am saying this totally with a smile on my face). So that means that I can save $1600 over the 14 night trip we normally would take by going 10 nights instead. Hmmmm.....wonder if I could buy off DW and DSD from 4 fewer days at WDW with some of this money, LOL! I'm sorry, but I am sitting here laughing that going fewer nights and going to the parks fewer days (the latter being an option even for longer trips) might be the solution to using a perk designed to get me to go MORE often or MORE nights and go to the parks MORE. Seems kinda strange, but I think it actually is true if you run the numbers, LOL.

You know Dr. P, at this point nothing would please me more than for you to figure out a way this will work for you and then let it go.

As to the days you are giving up by not going to the parks, please do not worry about the loss of revenue to Disney, the rest of us will gladly take up the slack.

 

[Doctor P]

Thanks for volunteering to pick up the slack! Unfortunately, I have a gut feeling that we will find a way to spend the savings, too!

 

[DVCPAT]

Originally posted by crisi
And Doctor P has a good argument. The AP discount - while great for many of us, isn't great for all of us. It does make the 10% UPH discount that did work for some of us look less attractive. A similar discount on hoppers or UPHs could also work to Disney's advantage (I don't think Hoppers would work - but UPHs could get people who currently only go for seven days or less, can't make the AP pay out because of waterparks, DQ, etc, move from stretching hoppers to getting a UPH - and being tied to Disney. i.e it could make more DVC members happy and Disney happy.)

I disagree.

Would you spend a (discounted) hopper pass day to enter a theme park for dinner or shopping?

How would you stop me from selling a discounted hopper pass for a small profit?

Disney has offered the AP discount for DVC members to increase revenue. It’s targeted toward the customers (DVC members) that spend the most time on-site. If I spend 21- days per year in WDW, Disney thinks they can make a larger profit from me, than someone who spends 7 days on-site.

Simply put, Disney thinks people who vacation more have more disposable income. They want every dime of my vacation budget and by offering me this discounted pass, they will get it. I would spend my energy on things I can control, like ways to increase my vacation budget.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Doctor P
Dean, I'm not sure why anyone would think that if someone went to WDW every year for a week that DVC would not be appropriate for them?? I don't think that is an issue. And, everyone keeps bringing up other perks. I will reiterate that a pass perk is not like the others since the parks are the central differentiating feature of DVC vs. other timeshares.

If someone is locked in to that specific week and going every year or two, I don't personally think DVC is a good choice. I thought you said EOY instead of EY though. If this were my situation, I'd likely just pay cash or buy a fixed off site timeshare that matched my time. You are so limited at present as to make DVC difficult to work it appears.

IMO, this pass reaches across the masses at DVC far better than what we've had. But as you've pointed out, it's not perfect. I still don't see one person being able to take advantage of a perk that's available, while another can't, it's not a loss or at least not unfair for the person that can't. If DVC said you couldn't get it for some reason, that would be different.

 

[Skip Wiley]

Originally posted by Doctor P
BCV23,

........ the annual pass discount works if we take shorter annual trips (once a year still) and go to the parks less. For trips in 2005 and 2006, I can get 9 days value out of an annual pass by only going to the parks the last four days of one trip and the first five days of the following year.....

Don't kid yourself, you'll buy an AP for the last four days of 2005 and the first five days of 2006, but you know you'll buy another AP for the last four days of 2006 and the first five days of 2007, and so on; no way the family buys into taking less vacation at Disney. You'll be spending the same amount of time, save money, and be an AP passholder, you elitest pig (If you haven't read the other thread, that comment is not an attack on Doctor P, just a tonque-in-cheek ending to an interesting and lively debate, I'm sure he'll appreciate the humor in it all)

 

[Doctor P]

Taken in the spirit intended, LOL!

 

[Skip Wiley]

Thanks, I knew you would see it in the way it was intended , just wanted to make sure someone else didn't take it the wrong way. I do truly hope you find a way to make it work and that your work situation continues to improve, I think it was Socrates who said "Life's too short to suck"