Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[skier_pete]

Which means it's definitely DVC. They are mum as can be about DVC projects until absolutely necessary. Much more so than other things. They also can't put out DVC at Caribbean without the new stuff at WL going on sale simply because some would wait (regardless of what our friend from NJ believes) and they don't want to have too many places to sell at once. They will announce the DVC thing once ground has been broken and structures have started going into place, not beforehand.

Yes - this is exactly right. IF they were just building more rooms then they would've announced that right then. (Of course, they also wouldn't be taking out 600 rooms to build a tower. Notice at CSR they are saying "addition of 500 rooms". CBR they are taking out 600 rooms to build a tower, which means no added rooms, just conversion of rooms - I've argued all along that you don't tear out rooms to add the same level of rooms. (Sure - suites.)

I remember when BLT was about 80% built and Disney still couldn't say that it was a timeshare - and since it wasn't an addition to the hotel, so they just didn't talk about it. It seems they have gotten slightly less secretive as with the WLV expansion they have already named it well before it is complete, but it doesn't surprise me that the press release doesn't mention the DVC side of things.

The "improvements to amenities" at CBR makes a lot of sense to go hand-in-hand with this gondola idea. I don't always agree with @lockedoutlogic, but he's right that it is not JUST about access. This gondola might let you add $20 a night to the room, but if they really want to upcharge the resort, they also have to improve the amenities. The combination of that says they instead to sell this as a higher level resort. Too bad it'll have the same crappy spread out room layout.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Florida time share laws are very restrictive about what can be said by a developer. DVD can't "promise" anything at this point.

...exactly. If they weren't, they could enter "development" deals with little money invested, "sell" the development as being YUGE, and then fold up the tent and move to grand cayman in about 45 minutes.

In order to sell, the builder has to be financially all in.

Rememberer: one of the original pyramid schemes was the door to door swampland sales that they did back in the 1910's and 1920's...sell 100 plots...pay the first few to get good word of mouth going...sell 1000 more...then make off with the rest.

 

[sachilles]

So the announcement combines Corranado and CBR. The CBR portion mentions the new service buildings, but doesn't mention a tower. So we collectively are taking that to mean it's because it's DVC, and they can't/won't say anything about DVC lodging until closer to to completion.
The CBR plans show water way stuff, and the buildings that impact them. Is it possible in your opinion that the big building in the plans is merely the service building and that a "tower" has yet to be depicted in any plans, as it's location doesn't affect the water table?
The shape of the large building in the plan lacks a little symmetry, which I find odd for Disney. It's not to say the tower would assume that shape full height. Just has be curious if there is more to this project we haven't figured out yet.

 

[dlavender]

So with new amenities, access to the gondola, where are they going to price this motel?

Sitting around $225 avg now. Will it go to $300? And they think that will sell? I obviously know nothing about their target market. Given supply/demand, if moving this to $300 pushes everyone to All stars who want to pay less, will those go to $200?!

We have a few years to see how it shakes out, but wow.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So with new amenities, access to the gondola, where are they going to price this motel?

Sitting around $225 avg now. Will it go to $300? And they think that will sell? I obviously know nothing about their target market. Given supply/demand, if moving this to $300 pushes everyone to All stars who want to pay less, will those go to $200?!

We have a few years to see how it shakes out, but wow.

^^^ this is the real issue ^^^

And we won't know for awhile.

Picture it: a network of 20 hotels where rack rates are starting at 200+...maybe 300+ if they dump the values onto an outside hotel operator like Marriott or Hilton...

50% of all on property rooms timeshares locked into 45 year contracts...

Think the tickets will be cheaper? Think the food will be?

Think the flow of people to the other side of I-4 are gonna be welcomed back with reasonable pricing?

"Sure...we intentionally sent you packing because you don't wanna pay more than $129 a night....but we'll keep those one day tickets low...how's $155 sound and an early close for a hard ticket event sound?"

The doomsday switch...for igers golden parachute.

 

[Madonna3]

So the announcement combines Corranado and CBR. The CBR portion mentions the new service buildings, but doesn't mention a tower. So we collectively are taking that to mean it's because it's DVC, and they can't/won't say anything about DVC lodging until closer to to completion.
The CBR plans show water way stuff, and the buildings that impact them. Is it possible in your opinion that the big building in the plans is merely the service building and that a "tower" has yet to be depicted in any plans, as it's location doesn't affect the water table?
The shape of the large building in the plan lacks a little symmetry, which I find odd for Disney. It's not to say the tower would assume that shape full height. Just has be curious if there is more to this project we haven't figured out yet.

Well, I know a few pages back, we had confirmation from an insider that CBR definitely has DVC activity on it. I highly doubt that the tower in the plans is *just* for this transportation option. The lack of symmetry you see could be due to an incorporation of this with rooms. Perhaps, the rooms are below the access point or above it and that created the asymmetrical silhouette you're speaking about.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well, I know a few pages back, we had confirmation from an insider that CBR definitely has DVC activity on it. I highly doubt that the tower in the plans is *just* for this transportation option. The lack of symmetry you see could be due to an incorporation of this with rooms. Perhaps, the rooms are below the access point or above it and that created the asymmetrical silhouette you're speaking about.

TOTS doctrine applies

 

[Madonna3]

TOTS doctrine applies

well duh.

 

[rteetz]

Updated map from wdwmagic

 

[dlavender]

^^^ this is the real issue ^^^

And we won't know for awhile.

Picture it: a network of 20 hotels where rack rates are starting at 200+...maybe 300+ if they dump the values onto an outside hotel operator like Marriott or Hilton...

50% of all on property rooms timeshares locked into 45 year contracts...

Think the tickets will be cheaper? Think the food will be?

Think the flow of people to the other side of I-4 are gonna be welcomed back with reasonable pricing?

"Sure...we intentionally sent you packing because you don't wanna pay more than $129 a night....but we'll keep those one day tickets low...how's $155 sound and an early close for a hard ticket event sound?"

The doomsday switch...for igers golden parachute.

I know its way early to gloom and doom. But I'm going down that hole anyway.

It would seem, with the recent discount on 2 day tickets, and the recent large increase in days 3-7, and this potential move to increase lodging across the board (again), that they are saying, "if you want value, come for 2 days, and find a nice spot to sleep in Kissimmee. We need our rooms filled with those who are willing and able to really throw down."

What does this do to Bonnet creek? I'm thinking that it elevates their pricing as well, since it will push another block of customers their way.

Either way you slice it, seems to be a bad sign for the Middle.

 

[Madonna3]

Updated map from wdwmagic

View attachment 220654

So... does this mean it will work kind like the monorail? Everything goes to the xfer station and then you take the line you need from there?

 

[Q-man]

^^^ this is the real issue ^^^
And we won't know for awhile.

Picture it: a network of 20 hotels where rack rates are starting at 200+...maybe 300+ if they dump the values onto an outside hotel operator like Marriott or Hilton...

50% of all on property rooms timeshares locked into 45 year contracts...

Think the tickets will be cheaper? Think the food will be?

Think the flow of people to the other side of I-4 are gonna be welcomed back with reasonable pricing?

"Sure...we intentionally sent you packing because you don't wanna pay more than $129 a night....but we'll keep those one day tickets low...how's $155 sound and an early close for a hard ticket event sound?"

The doomsday switch...for igers golden parachute.

I've suggested in the last few years that, via DVC, Disney is locking the upper middle-class regulars into coming every other year but at the expense of cannibalization of the very consumer pool that was renting the deluxe properties and thus needs to greatly reduce the number of deluxe property rooms since they've sold those rooms to those that were renting them.

Hadn't considered DVC wiping the inventory out to the point that staying property becomes a premium event in itself. Or that the end game may be the only way to stay on property is to own a DVC.

 

[LaidBackDad]

I'm starting to wonder if you are understanding how the hotels were priced...

They were priced on amenity, not location...

A location can be an amenity...but not necessarily. Caribbean was built to be priced less Than the monorail hotels because not only access, but food, pool, and recreation offerings were reduced or at a minimum, shared with many more rooms.

I've worked this...resorts...I don't know how to explain this any more clearly...it's not just location because you're not buying a home in Minneapolis...

I know...it's tougher when rules aren't always the same.

What I am saying...after something other than the silly canal idea has actually come into focus a little...is they are going to increase all the prices if this thing gets built. Not because you were "underpaying" before...because they don't want anyone spending less than $400 for a room because that speaks as to what they will pay otherwise...this isn't rocket science. It's Stockholm syndrome.

It's not "worth it" based on location...this isn't zillow.

I see whats going on now... you still are suffering from the effects of all the fairy dust you were exposed to. It's looking like it may be a permanent condition but you definitely may have aggravated your condition with your last trip. WDW does a magical job of creating an illusion that you are transported to a fantasy land where normal rules don't apply. Sadly, at the end of the day, it is still just an illusion. WDW is subject to the same economic criterion as the rest of the world. Location is always one of the most important determining factors when establishing worth. If you can't accept that, then that is the first sign that you should seek medical attentions for your fairy dust addiction. The fact that this area is being chosen for this type of development proves its worth and it has been under utilized for years; that, and you have been proven spectacularly wrong over the last 60+ pages.

 

[Josh Hendy]

...it seems to indicate that with the star wars development, they are looking to expand their timeshare network around it and overload the place.

"Overload" is right.

Star Wars Land is a great thing and long overdue, but we're talking about adding 2 (two) rides to a park which will still have about 1/3 the number of attractions and dining/drinking options of a real theme park.

It's not like DHS is going to be the "The Other Magic Kingdom" or "World Showcase 2".

To use an analogy: Harry Potter Lands were nice and much-needed family-oriented additions to the Universal parks. They sparked a huge number of visits and repeat visits. But I didn't see anybody rushing in to build and flip condo towers in the neighborhood of these parks in order to cater to the public's supposed desire to visit these attractions once a year for the next 40-50 years.

 

[Roxyfire]

I've suggested in the last few years that, via DVC, Disney is locking the upper middle-class regulars into coming every other year but at the expense of cannibalization of the very consumer pool that was renting the deluxe properties and thus needs to greatly reduce the number of deluxe property rooms since they've sold those rooms to those that were renting them.

Hadn't considered DVC wiping the inventory out to the point that staying property becomes a premium event in itself. Or that the end game may be the only way to stay on property is to own a DVC.

This is definitely concerning to me. I may consider going ahead and buying a small resale contract. I do want to visit at least every other year. Maybe that's playing into their hands a bit but I don't want to get stuck paying outrageous rates for a moderate down the road.

 

[dlavender]

I see whats going on now... you still are suffering from the effects of all the fairy dust you were exposed to. It's looking like it may be a permanent condition but you definitely may have aggravated your condition with your last trip. WDW does a magical job of creating an illusion that you are transported to a fantasy land where normal rules don't apply. Sadly, at the end of the day, it is still just an illusion. WDW is subject to the same economic criterion as the rest of the world. Location is always one of the most important determining factors when establishing worth. If you can't accept that, then that is the first sign that you should seek medical attentions for your fairy dust addiction. The fact that this area is being chosen for this type of development proves its worth and it has been under utilized for years; that, and you have been proven spectacularly wrong over the last 60+ pages.

Location is a factor, but its not the end all be all, and if it was, all the rooms would be the same size and include all the same amenities. Why is that confusing? See below:

Disney's Yacht Club Resort's Rooms
Most of the Yacht Club rooms are 381 square feet and have two queen-size beds, a daybed, and a desk and two chairs.

Pop Century's Rooms
Guest rooms at Pop Century are small at 260 square feet. Almost all Pop Century rooms sleep 4, plus one child in a crib. The decor is upbeat, with white bedspreads, themed-print duvet covers and wall art depicting pop memorabilia from decades past. Light-finish wood furniture and dark, patterned carpet provide an upscale touch, but these are not rooms you'll want to spend a lot of time in.

So, do you think location is the only factor that dictates price? Keep in mind, these are just the room details. We haven't even looked at the amenity comparison.......Maybe the square feet is just an illusion.

Let's be real for a second....

 

[dlavender]

Location is a factor, but its not the end all be all, and if it was, all the rooms would be the same size and include all the same amenities. Why is that confusing? See below:

Disney's Yacht Club Resort's Rooms
Most of the Yacht Club rooms are 381 square feet and have two queen-size beds, a daybed, and a desk and two chairs.

Pop Century's Rooms
Guest rooms at Pop Century are small at 260 square feet. Almost all Pop Century rooms sleep 4, plus one child in a crib. The decor is upbeat, with white bedspreads, themed-print duvet covers and wall art depicting pop memorabilia from decades past. Light-finish wood furniture and dark, patterned carpet provide an upscale touch, but these are not rooms you'll want to spend a lot of time in.

So, do you think location is the only factor that dictates price? Keep in mind, these are just the room details. We haven't even looked at the amenity comparison.......Maybe the square feet is just an illusion.

Let's be real for a second....

For fun:

Yacht Club Pools
Yacht Club has two pools. The largest, Stormalong Bay, sits along Crescent Lake and is arguably the best pool in all of Walt Disney World. The main feature of the pool is the large shipwreck along the outside the houses a waterslide. A must-experience feature of this pool is the sand that covers the bottom of the entire pool. There is also a hot tub, kiddie pool and water player area.
Pools and Playgrounds at Pop Century
Pop Century has 3 pools. The largest, The Hippy Dippy Pool, sits directly behind the Classic Hall lobby and food court, between the two buildings dedicated to the 1960's. The flower-shaped pool is painted in bright colors that match the surrounding buildings. Adjacent to the Hippy Dippy Pool is a water play area, where small children can play in gentle fountains of water bubbling up from the ground.

But, pricing is based only on location.....

Do you need more evidence?

One has 9 restaurants, one has 1. Can you guess which is which?

 

[Josh Hendy]

Salesman: New CBR DVC will be $25k buy in
Potential buyer: Isn't that what BLT/Poly went for?
Salesman: Yes
Potential buyer: Is there direct access, and does the room have a bed?
Salesman: Yes

Potential buyer: Can I buy on credit with low money down?
Salesman: Yes
Potential buyer: Can I easily flip it for a profit or at least sell the points every year if I don't feel like using it?
Salesman: (significant pause) ... oh ... absolutely ... um ... yeah no problem at all

Potential buyer: What a deal! Give me 2.

 

[rteetz]

So... does this mean it will work kind like the monorail? Everything goes to the xfer station and then you take the line you need from there?

Only at the stations that don't turn. So let's say you board at the Epcot station, you stay on until you hit the main CBR station. You would then need to take another line to DHS. At least that's how I've seen it.

 

[DisFanDad]

I think one of the most telling parts that this WILL be DVC is that they have announced the construction of the CSR tower / amenities, but haven't said anything about CBR despite permits filed.