Plan Ahead with Lightning Lane Entry at Walt Disney World Starting July 24

[spewey]

It ALL depends on the price. If it stays the same, which will absolutely stun me, then yes, same old same old, but no second rides.

If the price goes up substantially, it will become a huge advantage for the folks that can afford it.

Cedar Point charges $125 a day, Disney HAS to realize they are leaving money on the table.

As others say, CP’s Fastlane gives you far more than LLMPs. Same with other premium express options, like Universal’s.

This system only guarantees you three attractions, of which only one can be a true headliner. It better not be much more than Genie+. Now, if Disney ever did offer a true all-day LL option, that I could see them charging big bucks for.

 

[Dave006]

But if you’ve preselected all these attractions (we visit every 2-3 years for a 4.5 day trip so we will purchase multipass everyday) you’re very much married to a certain park every day until you’ve at least used 1 lightening lane.

Changed your plans… or your mind? You can modify your Lightning Lane selections via the My Disney Experience app.

To get started, tap the Lightning Lane Passes section on the app’s home screen to find your plans. Then, you can:

• Change your selected park and/or date in advance (subject to availability)—up until the moment you redeem your first Lightning Lane selection of the day.
• Change each selected experience and/or arrival window in advance (subject to availability)—up until the start of the arrival window

Dave

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Also, their "fast lane" pass is basically the the FOTL pass that Universal offers. They make it super expensive so less people will buy it and therefore it retains its values.

Disney can't charge that much as LLMP is NOT a FOTL pass, you still have to wait for your allotted time and may still wait some.

I agree with this and would add in an example of Silver Dollar City.

A 2-day park pass in 2022 when we went was $99 per person. Their Trailblazer pass Unlimited for 1 day was $83 per person. The Unlimited allowed for whatever riding we wanted with the only limited being their newest ride you could only ride 1 time with the Trailblazer pass. The lower Trailblazer was 8 or 9 uses meaning you could re-ride an attraction if you wanted but it counted for one of your uses, same limitation of only 1 time with their newest ride.

So their pass for 1 day was just about the cost of 2 days at the park. Priced that way it does tend to limit how many would purchase it for any given day.

While I would prefer Disney to go the route of Universal they cannot have their price proportionately like other parks do without fundamentally changing how their product works.

 

[Dave006]

I do get the flexibility thing; I am hoping you can modify (or even cancel? - probably not) easily. The fear folk have is that somehow pre-booking will mean having to select in advance or risk not having any choices day of.

You can't cancel since Lightning Lane passes are nonrefundable and nontransferable. However you can make changes.

• Change your selected park and/or date in advance (subject to availability)—up until the moment you redeem your first Lightning Lane selection of the day.
• Change each selected experience and/or arrival window in advance (subject to availability)—up until the start of the arrival window

Dave

 

[rastuso]

As others say, CP’s Fastlane gives you far more than LLMPs. Same with other premium express options, like Universal’s.

This system only guarantees you three attractions, of which only one can be a true headliner. It better not be much more than Genie+. Now, if Disney ever did offer a true all-day LL option, that I could see them charging big bucks for.

But that's the whole point. Yeah, you get more access. But NOT to Disney rides, just to roller coasters. You all say Disney is a premium experience, but then expect them to charge a pittance for ride skipping, while even regional parks can get folks to pay way more for it.

Ther is no question Disney could get $50 a day for this new iteration.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

You can't cancel since Lightning Lane passes are nonrefundable and nontransferable. However you can make changes.

• Change your selected park and/or date in advance (subject to availability)—up until the moment you redeem your first Lightning Lane selection of the day.
• Change each selected experience and/or arrival window in advance (subject to availability)—up until the start of the arrival window

Dave

Also, important to note that if something happens where you can't use your LL and you chat with Disney through the app, I have never had an issue with them refunding me. For example, we pre-bought ILL's and Genie+ first day of our trip last year, 7am flight, then our flight got severely delayed. They refunded me no problem. I'm sure it's on a case by case basis, but it's also not out of the realm of refundability.

 

[spewey]

But that's the whole point. Yeah, you get more access. But NOT to Disney rides, just to roller coasters. You all say Disney is a premium experience, but then expect them to charge a pittance for ride skipping, while even regional parks can get folks to pay way more for it.

Ther is no question Disney could get $50 a day for this new iteration.

I don't doubt some people would pay $50- for this. How many? Who knows. Personally I think that's WAY too much.

People (I don't think I have ever) do say Disney is a "premium experience" and that is reflected in their ticket prices. Just getting into the Magic Kingdom costs far more than a ticket to Cedar Point. But here we are focusing solely on their "express pass" systems, and what you get for that.

At MK - what are you guaranteed with your LLMP? Three rides, only one of which can be a "Tier 1", AND none of those can be Tron or 7DMT. After that, I am confident you'll still be able to get others, but that is based on availability, return times, no overlaps, booking windows, and no re-rides, and of course you need to be on top of things and be on your phone.

At CP, with their Fastlane+ (starts at $120), you get unlimited access to their express line for more than 25 attractions, including all their headliners. Which of course are roller coasters - that's why you go to CP. They have (IMHO) eight world-class coasters, several ranked in the top 10 (including Steel (OMG) Vengeance - IFKYK).

If you hate thrill rides, I get it, that ain't for you. If it's immersive theming, and pixie dust, that's Disney hands down - but that's what the expensive entrance fee is for. Daily tickets to CP start at 50 bucks.

I'm not trying to do a "what's better ride" comparison here, like "Haunted Mansion vs Millennium Force". They're both great. And if Disney ever offered something like CP (ALL rides, including re-rides, ALL day, and no need to book), I would consider paying a premium price for it. It'd be a lot more than $50-, I know.

 

[dancergirlsmom]

It ALL depends on the price. If it stays the same, which will absolutely stun me, then yes, same old same old, but no second rides.

If the price goes up substantially, it will become a huge advantage for the folks that can afford it.

Cedar Point charges $125 a day, Disney HAS to realize they are leaving money on the table.

Does that allow you to ride all rides at Cedar Point? I know the basic Universal Express pass does. I don't mind paying more if I know I can ride all rides and I don't have to reserve a "window" to go on it. With Genie+ or the new one there is no guarantee that you can ride all of the rides and you are still stuck making "times" to go on. I love staying at one of the top 3 Universal Resorts and being able to go on all but one of the rides when I want and as many times as I want and not having to be on my phone playing games to get rides.

 

[MomDoc_99]

"And if Disney ever offered something like CP (ALL rides, including re-rides, ALL day, and no need to book), I would consider paying a premium price for it. It'd be a lot more than $50-, I know."

They do offer something like that - it's called a VIP tour and it costs $3150-$6300 for up to 10 people and it is available in limited quantities and it always sells out. It is obviously above the financial reach of most visitors, and it works very well.

ETA: I can see them expanding the number of VIP tours somewhat, but I don't see them ever offering unlimited access passes at much of a lower price than that.

 

[princesswahooey]

Does that allow you to ride all rides at Cedar Point? I know the basic Universal Express pass does. I don't mind paying more if I know I can ride all rides and I don't have to reserve a "window" to go on it. With Genie+ or the new one there is no guarantee that you can ride all of the rides and you are still stuck making "times" to go on. I love staying at one of the top 3 Universal Resorts and being able to go on all but one of the rides when I want and as many times as I want and not having to be on my phone playing games to get rides.

The difference here is that at Disney, about 50% of guests are using Genie+. At Cedar Point, they supposedly cap their express pass sales at 20% (and most of the time it doesn't sell out, so less than 20% of guests are using it.) More guests at Disney can stand in shorter lines with the "return time" virtual queue system as opposed to the "skip the line" system at Cedar Point. (And I've heard tons of complaints that on many popular coasters, people are still waiting 45+ minutes WITH an express pass.) Honestly, the way FastPass works is a pretty cool way of allowing more people to avoid standing in lines with a little bit of planning. When first implemented as a free service, it was available to all guests, and for the most part it worked. Keeping LLMP at an accessible price with the idea that a majority of park users will purchase it seems to be the goal--not to make it an exclusive <20% elite experience. As others have said, the VIP tours already exist at a price point that limits it and makes it exclusive. Comparing Universal or Cedar Point Express Pass to LLMP is like apples to oranges.

 

[spewey]

Does that allow you to ride all rides at Cedar Point? I know the basic Universal Express pass does. I don't mind paying more if I know I can ride all rides and I don't have to reserve a "window" to go on it. With Genie+ or the new one there is no guarantee that you can ride all of the rides and you are still stuck making "times" to go on. I love staying at one of the top 3 Universal Resorts and being able to go on all but one of the rides when I want and as many times as I want and not having to be on my phone playing games to get rides.

"And if Disney ever offered something like CP (ALL rides, including re-rides, ALL day, and no need to book), I would consider paying a premium price for it. It'd be a lot more than $50-, I know."

They do offer something like that - it's called a VIP tour and it costs $3150-$6300 for up to 10 people and it is available in limited quantities and it always sells out. It is obviously above the financial reach of most visitors, and it works very well.

ETA: I can see them expanding the number of VIP tours somewhat, but I don't see them ever offering unlimited access passes at much of a lower price than that.

CP's Fastlane+ gives you access to about 25 of their most popular rides. So not all rides, but certainly more than you might be able to ride in a day.

Respectfully, the VIP tours at Disney (and Universal) give you a lot more than just unlimited access to their express lanes. They are a true front of the line service (walk right on) for any attraction, guaranteed seating for meals, free food, backstage access for some things, etc. That's how they justify the price tag I suppose.

 

[MomDoc_99]

I don't have any experience with the Universal tours, but the Disney VIP tours go through the Lightning Lanes and are only "true front of the line" for the few rides that don't have them. They can help you get reservations but don't guarantee them, they have free snacks and drinks but not free meals. They do provide transportation if requested/needed, and a guide.

 

[DisneyFive]

I've never been to Cedar Point - - does the average length of stay figure into this? If Cedar Point is a two day park, what you have is people willing to spend an additional $250 per person. Would the price point change if the average visit was 4-6 days?

Agreed 100%.

Comparing Disney's system to these other two parks are Apples and Oranges primarily due to how long you spend at each of these parks and their pricing.

We've been to all three of these parks mentioned. Cedar Point and Silver Dollar City are one day parks (two days max). Disney is very regularly 5-10 days. The affordability of a front of the line pass is MUCH higher when you are only spending one or two day at an amusement park. EVERYTHING costs less at Cedar Point or Silver dollar city compared to WDW with the exception of "front of the line passes". Tickets cost less, parking is less, meals are less, lodging is less (fewer nights), The overall cost of the trip is far less so yeah, getting the most out of that one or two days makes it easier to justify the added cost of $80-120 line skipping passes.

Try selling a $100 per person per day pass to a family at WDW who are there for a week already easily spending $6,000-$10,000+ on tickets, resort and meals. It just doesn't work IMO.

 

[ocdb8r1]

CP's Fastlane+ gives you access to about 25 of their most popular rides. So not all rides, but certainly more than you might be able to ride in a day.

Respectfully, the VIP tours at Disney (and Universal) give you a lot more than just unlimited access to their express lanes. They are a true front of the line service (walk right on) for any attraction, guaranteed seating for meals, free food, backstage access for some things, etc. That's how they justify the price tag I suppose.

Not true for either of the parks. I have done VIP Tours at Disneyland, Disney World and Universal Orlando/IoA. All of them used the existing "express lanes" except for attractions where one didn't exist. In fact, both the guides we had at Disneyland and Disney World spent a fair amount of time communicating with colleagues on where "lighting lanes" were long so we could avoid and go to one of our other preferred attractions.

I don't have any experience with the Universal tours, but the Disney VIP tours go through the Lightning Lanes and are only "true front of the line" for the few rides that don't have them. They can help you get reservations but don't guarantee them, they have free snacks and drinks but not free meals. They do provide transportation if requested/needed, and a guide.

Exactly. At Disneyland we request a reservation at Blue Bayou and were warned it could not be guaranteed. In fact they were unable to get it on the day reservations opened, but were later able to secure it by monitoring availability.

Don't get me wrong, both experiences were great, but definitely not a good "value" for the cost/benefit.

 

[ocdb8r1]

....as to the main topic at hand, I've not been able to read every post in this thread, but my initial reaction is one of pure math. The new system leads me to believe everyone except dawn to dusk commando park goesr will end up with net fewer LL's than with the previous system. The inability to "stack" by adding additional reservations at every 2 hour interval will prevent afternoon hoarding.

This, combined with the DAS changes (depending on where that debacle ends up panning out) means there will be a lower volume of lightning lane users which will mean either a) more LLs available for those using the system and/or b) a lower volume of people in the lightning lanes, improving standby times.

Bottom line, 1) nothing in this change affects the overall volume of the total rides available; 2) limiting you to a total of no more than 3 lightning lanes at any given time will actually increase options on day of for non-planners (by limiting the afternoon stackers/hoarders); and 3) the DAS changes (even if Disney is forced to make them more reasonable, I think they will still manage to weed out some volume of the abusers) also benefit non-planners by leveling the playing field.

 

[spewey]

Not true for either of the parks. I have done VIP Tours at Disneyland, Disney World and Universal Orlando/IoA. All of them used the existing "express lanes" except for attractions where one didn't exist. In fact, both the guides we had at Disneyland and Disney World spent a fair amount of time communicating with colleagues on where "lighting lanes" were long so we could avoid and go to one of our other preferred attractions.

Exactly. At Disneyland we request a reservation at Blue Bayou and were warned it could not be guaranteed. In fact they were unable to get it on the day reservations opened, but were later able to secure it by monitoring availability.

Don't get me wrong, both experiences were great, but definitely not a good "value" for the cost/benefit.

Wow - my assumption was based on someone I know who did the VIP at UO, and compared it to CP's (which I have done), where we used the exit ramp to skip any and all lines. My bad. I agree it's A LOT of $$$ for what you get.

....as to the main topic at hand, I've not been able to read every post in this thread, but my initial reaction is one of pure math. The new system leads me to believe everyone except dawn to dusk commando park goesr will end up with net fewer LL's than with the previous system. The inability to "stack" by adding additional reservations at every 2 hour interval will prevent afternoon hoarding.

This, combined with the DAS changes (depending on where that debacle ends up panning out) means there will be a lower volume of lightning lane users which will mean either a) more LLs available for those using the system and/or b) a lower volume of people in the lightning lanes, improving standby times.

Bottom line, 1) nothing in this change affects the overall volume of the total rides available; 2) limiting you to a total of no more than 3 lightning lanes at any given time will actually increase options on day of for non-planners (by limiting the afternoon stackers/hoarders); and 3) the DAS changes (even if Disney is forced to make them more reasonable, I think they will still manage to weed out some volume of the abusers) also benefit non-planners by leveling the playing field.

I think this is an excellent summation. Only thing I think may not result is the end of afternoon stacking. Assuming you arrive at the park before 5, the most LLs you could have with Genie+ would be four, with the three you pick at the two-hour times dependent on decreasing availability as the day goes on. With LLMP, you can select three (just one fewer) several days in advance. And if you plan to go before 3, say after lunch, the number is the same.

And once you arrive, and start tapping in, both systems are (about) comparable.

 

[123SA]

So....in the short term, do you think more people will buy LLMP than Genie +? Or will sales dip as people watch it to see it's worth?

 

[DisneyFive]

So....in the short term, do you think more people will buy LLMP than Genie +? Or will sales dip as people watch it to see it's worth?

If the pricing is similar to G+, I would speculate that more would want MPLL. It offers more IMO, especially being able to prebook. Has Disney said anything about limiting sales like they did with G+?

They could reduce sales by 1) Raising Price 2) Capping the number available for sale

 

[tx911]

If the pricing is similar to G+, I would speculate that more would want MPLL. It offers more IMO, especially being able to prebook. Has Disney said anything about limiting sales like they did with G+?

They could reduce sales by 1) Raising Price 2) Capping the number available for sale

There may be built-in factors that limit uptake.

For example, only on-site guests get 7 day window, and you can decide whether or not to purchase after you know LL availability.

If LL availability is low for guests with a 3-day window or day of, they may choose not to purchase.

 

[rastuso]

If the pricing is similar to G+, I would speculate that more would want MPLL. It offers more IMO, especially being able to prebook. Has Disney said anything about limiting sales like they did with G+?

They could reduce sales by 1) Raising Price 2) Capping the number available for sale

And that is why it is absurd to think it won't go up in price. It is G+ with a HUGE addition to prebook a Tier 1 ride. Almost like a free semi-ILL is included.

There is the negative of no redos of rides, which probably isn't a big deal to many folks. You get so few rides anyway, you have to REALLY love one to use two slots for it.