Plan Ahead with Lightning Lane Entry at Walt Disney World Starting July 24

[mi*vida*loca]

I wonder how this will affect rope drop. Will it make it crazier or calmer?

 

[tom1944]

I wonder how this will affect rope drop. Will it make it crazier or calmer?

This is going to be important in deciding what rides you originally select in your 3 LLMP pod.

 

[starcommand79]

I'm wondering how this will affect my trip when I'm down there on July 24! Right when it drops... Ugh.. Annoying.. Like, will I be able to use it for that day and plan the following days as well I guess?

 

[Tom_E_D]

It will be interesting to see how this mechanism works in practice. It could mean you can start looking for a new slot after either (a) you physically tap in to a current selection at the ride, (b) a current selection window opens, or (c) a current selection window closes (unless you have tapped in to the ride in the meantime).

I would think (a) or (b) are the most likely, with (b) being the simplest to implement technically as it would not require communication back from the readers in the park.

Andre

Maybe (b) would be the simplest. I believe that was how MaxPass worked. But there would still have to be constant communication between the main computer and the card readers, so the card readers would know what LLs you have.

Meanwhile, Genie+ now works with (a) and (c), as well as cancellations and the 2-hour rule. I read the "redeem" language in my earlier quote as meaning we'll still have (a). I read the "once the arrival window has passed" language as meaning we'll still have (c).

 

[greeneyedchick]

Can someone break this down for me as simple (bulleted list of steps??) as possible:

We have 4 day hoppers.

We want to ensure we ride Tiana, GoG, Tron, Remy - all the new ones since we were last there.

What do I need to do on each park day to make these happen? And, what is the rough-ish cost on what it might run me? Our park days are the week of August 18-22.

Walk me through like I am a 1000% illiterate newbie cuz that is how I feel reading this thread - I have no idea what each thing means.

I saw that you mention that you struggle with videos. I'm the same way. I have to see something written down. In case you didn't know, most YouTube videos have an option where you can read the transcript of the video. You usually have to click "expand" or "more" in the comment section below the video. Then you will see a Show Transcript button. I use this feature all of the time.

As others have mentioned, if you're staying on-site, 7 days before your trip you can book a Single Pass (may cost around $25 per person) to reserve a ride time for GoG and Tron. If you don't want to do that, you can try for a virtual queue spot at 7AM and 1PM the day of.

For Tiana's and Remy's, they are Tier 1 Multi-pass rides. You can purchase the multi-pass (may cost around $40 per person per day) and select that ride if it's available. If you can't get it via multi-pass, I believe that there is a VQ for Tiana's? Someone else needs to verify that. I know that was the case for AP previews. You can also pre-book 2 Tier-2 rides in the same park per day. Once you scan into your first pre-booked ride, then you can select another ride either in the same park or another (if you have park hoppers). From what we're hearing, it can be either a Tier-1 or Tier 2 ride. Keep in mind that, unlike Fast Pass, the top rides in the park are not included with multi-pass (I think this will be a point of confusion to casual guests who will think that a multi-pass gets them multiple single-pass rides-Disney's naming conventions!!) But I digress....Hope that helps.

 

[Cabius]

Just saw the lists and the number of Tier1 rides at MK is insane. With G+ we could easily do all 3 moutnains and Jungle Cruise with stacking. Now all that's out the window. Buying G+ at MK used to be a no-brainer but now it's a much tougher decision. Awful change, at least for that park.

I'm not sure that's true.

You can only pre-book one Tier 1 attraction, but that's a double-edged sword. Yes, you can only lock in one T1 attraction ahead of time, but everybody else is in the same boat. That's pretty similar to Genie+ where guests could make one booking at 7AM. You'll have some guests who might've booked Buzz Lightyear with Genie+ and book Buzz Lightyear and Jungle Cruise with LLMP, but I think most G+ buyers were using their 7AM bookings on headliner attractions anyway. So this is basically a wash; at 9AM on any given day, the availability of T1 attractions should be roughly equivalent to what it was with Genie+.

What LLMP really does is allocate capacity away from the stack-from-the-resort crowd to the rope-drop crowd, improving day-of availability of Tier 1 attractions for morning guests at the expense of those who previously relied on the 120-minute-rule.

With Genie+ a lot of guests would book passes every 2 hours without using their initial one, stacking a bunch of attractions for the afternoon/evening hours. Now, these stackers won't be able to make as many additional bookings from their resort. (I think the play here is to book throwaway T2 bookings at 9am and 10am and book T1 replacements as soon as those windows expire, but that still caps stackers out at three evening passes as opposed to the 6+ that folks talk about getting with Genie+.)

So for guests who are in the parks in the morning, they will have about the same availability of T1 attractions, but less competition for those slots. Assuming that the mechanics are similar to FP+, the strategy is to book Tier 2 attractions for 9AM and 10AM, scan as early as possible in those windows, and immediately book additional T1 attractions. If you do this, you should have better availability with LLMP than you did with G+.

 

[greeneyedchick]

View attachment 872680

Screen three is labeled "Select Your Experiences Prior to Purchase" and screen four shows that selections are being held for 5 minutes through the check-out process.

Am I the only one who feels that Disney does not make it clear that a multi-pass does not mean multiple single-passes for rides? I feel like the casual guest may think that the multi-pass includes the single-pass rides (the name kinda implies that). People keep saying it's like the old FP+, but FP+ Tier-1 rides included the top rides in the park. The multi-pass does not. I feel like people may be in for a surprise if they choose to buy the multi-pass thinking that it includes all of the rides. It bugs me because they are re-vamping/ re-naming their express pass system and I still feel like their names are confusing.

I realize that people need to do their homework, but many don't. I live near Orlando and when I had some guests stay with me last year while going to the parks, they were completely oblivious to Genie+ and Lightening Lanes. I tried to explain it to them, but their eyes glazed over and they laughed and said they'd figure it out when they go to the parks. Well, they did pay for Genie+, got 1 or 2 rides at most at Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios (the only 2 parks they went too). They were so disgusted by spending the extra money and not getting onto most rides that they swore they'd never go to Disney again.

 

[godfather927]

What LLMP really does is allocate capacity away from the stack-from-the-resort crowd to the rope-drop crowd, improving day-of availability of Tier 1 attractions for morning guests at the expense of those who previously relied on the 120-minute-rule.

That is what I meant. With stacking, we were able to do everything we wanted without having to rush out the door every morning. We could get to the park two or three hours after it opens without issue. That meant being able to have more table service breakfasts which was especially nice.

Sure it meant I personally had to get up at 7am every morning, but as the "Disney planner" for our family, it allowed others to sleep in on vacation and we didn't collectively feel the stress of having to get to the park by a certain time to avoid missing out on any of the big rides. Now that's no longer the case, and while I don't have to get up at 7am, this means I still won't get much extra sleep because we have to get to the park and tap into to that first ride to be able to book our 4th one.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I'm not sure that's true.

You can only pre-book one Tier 1 attraction, but that's a double-edged sword. Yes, you can only lock in one T1 attraction ahead of time, but everybody else is in the same boat. That's pretty similar to Genie+ where guests could make one booking at 7AM. You'll have some guests who might've booked Buzz Lightyear with Genie+ and book Buzz Lightyear and Jungle Cruise with LLMP, but I think most G+ buyers were using their 7AM bookings on headliner attractions anyway. So this is basically a wash; at 9AM on any given day, the availability of T1 attractions should be roughly equivalent to what it was with Genie+.

What LLMP really does is allocate capacity away from the stack-from-the-resort crowd to the rope-drop crowd, improving day-of availability of Tier 1 attractions for morning guests at the expense of those who previously relied on the 120-minute-rule.

With Genie+ a lot of guests would book passes every 2 hours without using their initial one, stacking a bunch of attractions for the afternoon/evening hours. Now, these stackers won't be able to make as many additional bookings from their resort. (I think the play here is to book throwaway T2 bookings at 9am and 10am and book T1 replacements as soon as those windows expire, but that still caps stackers out at three evening passes as opposed to the 6+ that folks talk about getting with Genie+.)

So for guests who are in the parks in the morning, they will have about the same availability of T1 attractions, but less competition for those slots. Assuming that the mechanics are similar to FP+, the strategy is to book Tier 2 attractions for 9AM and 10AM, scan as early as possible in those windows, and immediately book additional T1 attractions. If you do this, you should have better availability with LLMP than you did with G+.

I absolutely agree with some of the points you laid out here. One of the biggest adjustments some folks will need to make is the ability to sit in a lounge by the pool in the morning/afternoon, stacking attractions every 2 hours for later in the day, has practically gone away. But the one question I've not seen answered specifically (and I might've missed it) is the one some folks have asked - if my LLMP window expires without me riding the attraction, can I book another? I'm wondering if you book at T2 attraction 9AM-10AM, and don't show, can you then book another at 10AM when that expires?! If so, the lounge chair folks will book unwanted LL, just like we did with FP+ (I know we did), just to get to the attractions stacked later they want.

But to me, other than the 2-hr window being taken away, G+ booking and LLMP booking will be similar. LLMP just allows pre-scheduling of a T1 attraction before moving on to other attractions later in the day. With G+, when I got up at 7AM to book, I was only getting one of the better attractions there, too! But the 2-hr window will impact some planners. Even with that, though, you couldn't book another G+LL until 10:30/11. And I'll spend way less time hitting modify to move my times later in the day - I like selecting the time range up front - much, much simpler.

Pros and cons - just like there were for FP, for FP+, and for Genie+.....

 

[greeneyedchick]

On the plus side, there may be more Tier-1 ride availability with this system vs FP+. My understanding is that you can only book the same ride once per day. If you book a ride and miss your time, I'm assuming that the system does not let you book that ride again that day? I haven't seen it confirmed. Not sure if that was the case with Genie+ either. If that's the case, people will be much more likely to modify their ride time or cancel a booking that they are going to miss rather than risk not being able to ride it with the multi-pass later. That should throw those rides back into the availability pool. I feel like with the old FP+ system, if you were going to miss your FP, you didn't necessarily bother canceling it which means someone else who could have taken your spot didn't get that opportunity.

 

[tom1944]

I'm not sure that's true.

You can only pre-book one Tier 1 attraction, but that's a double-edged sword. Yes, you can only lock in one T1 attraction ahead of time, but everybody else is in the same boat. That's pretty similar to Genie+ where guests could make one booking at 7AM. You'll have some guests who might've booked Buzz Lightyear with Genie+ and book Buzz Lightyear and Jungle Cruise with LLMP, but I think most G+ buyers were using their 7AM bookings on headliner attractions anyway. So this is basically a wash; at 9AM on any given day, the availability of T1 attractions should be roughly equivalent to what it was with Genie+.

What LLMP really does is allocate capacity away from the stack-from-the-resort crowd to the rope-drop crowd, improving day-of availability of Tier 1 attractions for morning guests at the expense of those who previously relied on the 120-minute-rule.

With Genie+ a lot of guests would book passes every 2 hours without using their initial one, stacking a bunch of attractions for the afternoon/evening hours. Now, these stackers won't be able to make as many additional bookings from their resort. (I think the play here is to book throwaway T2 bookings at 9am and 10am and book T1 replacements as soon as those windows expire, but that still caps stackers out at three evening passes as opposed to the 6+ that folks talk about getting with Genie+.)

So for guests who are in the parks in the morning, they will have about the same availability of T1 attractions, but less competition for those slots. Assuming that the mechanics are similar to FP+, the strategy is to book Tier 2 attractions for 9AM and 10AM, scan as early as possible in those windows, and immediately book additional T1 attractions. If you do this, you should have better availability with LLMP than you did with G+.

Is my thinking correct to book my tier 2 rides at 9 and 10. Book my tier 1 ride for later but also try to get a tier 1 ride at EE and possibly a second tier 1 at rope drop?

In Magic Kingdom say try to ride Peter Pan or Big Thunder at EE and be prepared to hit Jungle Cruise right at rope drop for Adventureland using the window to still be able to make my 9am LLMP within the window? Or is that just making it more difficult right from the start?

 

[Minnie1222]

I would accept a park reservation system to manage capacity on the days it may be an issue.

People in general dislike the park reservation. AP holders still have to follow this protocol and this is the part we hate the most. I don't think this will be embraced by the majority of the guests.

I would even accept a slightly higher ticket price.

A slightly higher price won't work since guests would still be stuck in very long lines. A significant increase in price, in conjunction with park reservation, may alleviate the lines.

Then just give all guests the same opportunity to ride the rides they have paid to access through the park ticket.

Equal opportunities will never happen. If Disney were to remove all the Genie+, ILL, etc., most likely they will just expand their private and group VIP associations.

 

[Mouse Tracker]

Am I the only one who feels that Disney does not make it clear that a multi-pass does not mean multiple single-passes for rides? I feel like the casual guest may think that the multi-pass includes the single-pass rides (the name kinda implies that). People keep saying it's like the old FP+, but FP+ Tier-1 rides included the top rides in the park. The multi-pass does not. I feel like people may be in for a surprise if they choose to buy the multi-pass thinking that it includes all of the rides. It bugs me because they are re-vamping/ re-naming their express pass system and I still feel like their names are confusing.

HUH?

Just totally confused me, I can only imagine how your explanation of G+ went with recent guests.

 

[spewey]

I haven't posted in here in a gazillion years. After 7 years of not going, I decided to randomly book a trip last week.

7/20 to 7/27

This is going to be a doozy. Looking forward to crushing guinea pig status and reporting back the night of the 24th. Read this whole thread. Nice work team.

We'll be thinking of you Fonzy. Godspeed.

That is what I meant. With stacking, we were able to do everything we wanted without having to rush out the door every morning. We could get to the park two or three hours after it opens without issue. That meant being able to have more table service breakfasts which was especially nice.

Sure it meant I personally had to get up at 7am every morning, but as the "Disney planner" for our family, it allowed others to sleep in on vacation and we didn't collectively feel the stress of having to get to the park by a certain time to avoid missing out on any of the big rides. Now that's no longer the case, and while I don't have to get up at 7am, this means I still won't get much extra sleep because we have to get to the park and tap into to that first ride to be able to book our 4th one.

Again, I'm not sure how much of a difference this new system will make, vis a vis the sheer number of rides you can have stacked and ready to go for a "pool in the morning, park in the afternoon" day.

I'll use MK this time - in advance for the afternoon you can book three LLMP rides, plus two LLSP rides, (could also try for two VQs (assuming that is still in place), either at 7AM or 1PM, but that's off point I suppose).

That's five slots lined up, or if you want to skip the LLSPs, three. When do people head to the park with this strategy? If it's before 3PM, you're down one spot, which is disappointing to be sure, but once you tap in to your first ride - which with this plan you don't need to show up early for - you can start making other selections. And so on. I don't see that as much of a change, and for some days on our trip I'm going to stick to this.

So far, the downsides to me are the elimination of (sometimes immediate) re-rides and a longer booking window. We shall see.

 

[Cabius]

But the one question I've not seen answered specifically (and I might've missed it) is the one some folks have asked - if my LLMP window expires without me riding the attraction, can I book another? I'm wondering if you book at T2 attraction 9AM-10AM, and don't show, can you then book another at 10AM when that expires?! If so, the lounge chair folks will book unwanted LL, just like we did with FP+ (I know we did), just to get to the attractions stacked later they want.

It's not 100% clear, but my expectation is that yes, you will be able to book an additional pass once a window expires. That's how FP+ worked, and it's the only way to support the 'three passes at a time' idea consistently. So you could still do some stacking, but with a maximum of three.

It definitely shifts value away from stackers and toward rope drop commandos. As a member of the latter group, I'm happy with this; I totally understand and appreciate folks in the other camp feeling otherwise! This is all a zero-sum game; there are no winners without losers; if everybody is skipping the line, then nobody is.

Is my thinking correct to book my tier 2 rides at 9 and 10. Book my tier 1 ride for later but also try to get a tier 1 ride at EE and possibly a second tier 1 at rope drop?

In Magic Kingdom say try to ride Peter Pan or Big Thunder at EE and be prepared to hit Jungle Cruise right at rope drop for Adventureland using the window to still be able to make my 9am LLMP within the window? Or is that just making it more difficult right from the start?

On most days (e.g. not holiday seasons), you could pretty easily rope drop Peter Pan, and walk onto Jungle Cruise with a short wait (it opens at 9:00), and make a 9:00-10:00 LL window, especially assuming a 15-minute grace period.

On a day where Magic Kingdom is a 5-out-of-10 crowd level, Peter Pan would be about 30-minute wait at 8:30 AM, and Jungle Cruise would be a less-than-10-minute wait at 9:15 AM. You'd be done around 9:30 AM on average. I think you could swap Space Mountain for Jungle Cruise, or swap 7DMT for Peter Pan, and be in roughly the same timeframe.

If you are towards the front of the rope drop crowd you could shave off some time in that first queue. The folks who reach the queue at 8:06 wait 30 minutes, but the folks who get there at 8:02 walk straight on. That only does so much good if you're going on Jungle Cruise second, since you'd still be held at Liberty Square until Adventureland opens at 9AM. But if you went on Space Mountain second, you might pick up a few minutes.

That's five slots lined up, or if you want to skip the LLSPs, three. When do people head to the park with this strategy? If it's before 3PM, you're down one spot, which is disappointing to be sure, but once you tap in to your first ride - which with this plan you don't need to show up early for - you can start making other selections. And so on. I don't see that as much of a change, and for some days on our trip I'm going to stick to this.

So far, the downsides to me are the elimination of (sometimes immediate) re-rides and a longer booking window. We shall see.

I think a lot of folks would have 6 or 7 G+ LLs stacked up by the time they got to the park, and now they'll only have three. Maybe they can get additional T1 passes after they start scanning in, maybe there won't be any availability left, but it definitely gives preference to guests who are in the parks all day long.

 

[godfather927]

We'll be thinking of you Fonzy. Godspeed.

Again, I'm not sure how much of a difference this new system will make, vis a vis the sheer number of rides you can have stacked and ready to go for a "pool in the morning, park in the afternoon" day.

I'll use MK this time - in advance for the afternoon you can book three LLMP rides, plus two LLSP rides, (could also try for two VQs (assuming that is still in place), either at 7AM or 1PM, but that's off point I suppose).

That's five slots lined up, or if you want to skip the LLSPs, three. When do people head to the park with this strategy? If it's before 3PM, you're down one spot, which is disappointing to be sure, but once you tap in to your first ride - which with this plan you don't need to show up early for - you can start making other selections. And so on. I don't see that as much of a change, and for some days on our trip I'm going to stick to this.

So far, the downsides to me are the elimination of (sometimes immediate) re-rides and a longer booking window. We shall see.

I'll give one of our typical MK days with G+ as an example (for a park open of 9am):

7am: Book Jungle Cruise (sometimes with a return time around 10 or 11 am, sometimes with a later afternoon one depending on our plans)
11am (or possibly a bit earlier): Book SM (return time modified to be later in the afternoon/evening)
1pm: Book BTM (mod'd as above)
3pm: Book Splash
5pm: Book Pirates
7pm or sooner depending on when I've modified the stacked rides: Book Buzz or whatever is left

That's booking 6 rides (4 of which are now all included in the top FP+ tier) without having to get to the park by any particular time. Some days we'd get to the park as late as 2pm and still do all the major rides we wanted. Sometimes we swap out Jungle Cruise for Haunted Mansion instead or we swap BTM and Splash depending on the weather, but we've never had a day at MK where we missed out on getting G+ LLs for all 3 mountains. My kids have kinda aged out of 7DMT but otherwise I'd have purchased an ILL for it as we did a couple years ago and maintained a similar slate.

But now with the new system (which is closer to the old FP+ system), getting a LL for all 3 mountains will almost certainly require getting to the park within an hour after it opens and tapping into rides at least twice before our typical afternoon hotel break.

 

[MomDoc_99]

Maybe they can get additional T1 passes after they start scanning in, maybe there won't be any availability left, but it definitely gives preference to guests who are in the parks all day long.

Which makes a lot of sense from Disney's point of view - they would rather have guests in the parks all day long, shopping and eating in between rides.

 

[123SA]

I think a lot of folks would have 6 or 7 G+ LLs stacked up by the time they got to the park, and now they'll only have three. Maybe they can get additional T1 passes after they start scanning in, maybe there won't be any availability left, but it definitely gives preference to guests who are in the parks all day long.

I guess I was not using Genie+ correctly. This is a serious question. How are people walking in with 7 G+ LL stacked?
DHS opens at 9
1st LL at 7 -Slinky
2nd LL at 11 (2 hours after park opens) - RNRC
3rd at 1 - Smugglers Run
4th at 3 - TOT
5th at 5 - TSM
6th at 7 - Star Tours
7th at 9 Alien

How are people walking in with 7 G+ LL stacked -- if you walked in at 9pm, the park would either be closed or you'd have at best an hour to finish all 7 of those rides that you somehow managed to stack in the same hour timeframe.

 

[Cabius]

Which makes a lot of sense from Disney's point of view - they would rather have guests in the parks all day long, shopping and eating in between rides.

I suspect the guest mix is different, too, and that Disney is trying to address the problem of "first time, never again" families.

We probably all know families who went to WDW for the first time in the past few years and were totally overwhelmed and/or had a miserable experience, and swore to never come back. Disney needs to turn casual guests into miserable addicts like us in order to sustain their business long-term. So whatever they can do to make those first-time guests have a better time, they need to figure it out.

My assumption is that the savvy stackers are more like to be long-time WDW fans who come every year, or even multiple times per year. They spend a lot of money, but at the same time they're so locked-in that it would take a lot to make them really break up with the Mouse.

Whereas families who are visiting for the first time are probably more likely to be all-day guests, since everything is new to them and they want to make the most of their trip. But, they are less likely to know how to game the system to get maximum value out of it. They'll probably go on a ride, then pull up the app and book the next thing that looks good. That's a sucker's move with Genie+, but a good value with LLMP!

I think these changes, at least at the margins, shift value from that first group and to the second group. LLMP is a greater value for guests who will show up to the parks early and want to make more decisions as they go.

 

[KatieBee14]

Not sure if anyone would know this since the new system hasn't started yet, but do we know how this impacts split stays? We booked using DVC point rental and have a split stay with 1 night at Saratoga, 5 nights at Riviera, and 1 night at Boardwalk. Does anyone happen to know if I will be able to book our 3 LL reservations for the entirety of our stay despite it being a split stay? I know ADRs will be 3 different dates, but I'm really hoping we will be able to use the onsite LL reservations perk despite being a split stay. Thank you in advance for any insight you might have!