Pit-Bull's...friend or foe?

[Wendy31]

I don't wish ill will toward pits & pit mixes, but I would never own one & would never have one around children. I'm also not a personal fan of Akitas, Chows, Rottweilers, or Cane Torsos.

They're very powerful & strong dogs & have been bred, in the past, w/ different prey/attack/fight instincts. And I know each one, individually, could be a wonderful pet. But I've read too many stories of these type dogs being great - until they snapped & attacked.

On the other hand, I adore GSDs, but would probably never have one because I'm not a very good dog disciplinarian. I'm not stern or consistent enough.

Some day, I'll probably have a GSD for a grand dog because DD also loves them & really wants one. She wants a German Shepherd & a Corgi.

We have a Keeshond.

 

[tzolkin]

Listen idc if you have weird biases or don’t like dogs. As long as you don’t hurt them or contribute to fear mongering then you do you.

Not sure why you would get that impression from my post. I was just asking for clarification because you seemed to be saying two contradictory things.

I don’t believe that I have any “weird biases” and I certainly like dogs. I’ve dedicated several years of my life fostering, adopting, and intensely training a few and even volunteering with therapy dogs.

Pit bull-type dogs are actually my favorite, so I can’t imagine that I’m “fear mongering”. I love their personalities and how they connect with their people. I just don’t believe that certain temperaments can be completely eliminated regardless of how much effort the human puts in. Some dogs will remain unpredictable or and still have some underlying fear or aggression. (This has nothing to do with breed, I’m referring to individual dogs of any breed with issues.)

State Farm homeowners covers any dog. They ask a few questions and of course if the dog does indeed bite, they will most likely ask more questions about the dog and how it’s kept. And it’s the same coverage.

Yes, State Farm is the only one we have found in our area that offers full coverage with no restrictions.

That said, pit bull specific rescues are the only ones that mention this to potential adopters. Other rescues and shelters in our area will just let someone take the dog home and never mention that they need to investigate their coverage.

 

[dosekies]

So why the conspiracy? Why does the “media” care if there is no truth to it?

Insurance companies aren’t motivated by the “media” but by the level of risk they assume. I can’t have a diving board or a slide by my pool either. You can use both & never have a problem. Many have for years. But, the insurance co has decided the risk is too great for them to insure.

Because everyone needs someone to blame and point the finger at. They did the same thing with Rotts, Dobermans, German Shepherds, etc. before. Anytime I hear or read about a dog attack, it will specifically say it was a pit in the title but if it is any other breed it will be a generic dog attack title and you have to dig into the details to find out what other breed it was.

 

[LSUmiss]

Because everyone needs someone to blame and point the finger at. They did the same thing with Rotts, Dobermans, German Shepherds, etc. before. Anytime I hear or read about a dog attack, it will specifically say it was a pit in the title but if it is any other breed it will be a generic dog attack title and you have to dig into the details to find out what other breed it was.

Blame for what? They did the same with those breeds b/c they’re also dangerous.

 

[dosekies]

Blame for what? They did the same with those breeds b/c they’re also dangerous.

No, what is dangerous is being an irresponsible dog owner who does not feel the need to train their pet or will leave small children alone with them no matter what breed they are. Obviously a bigger dog will do more damage if something happens, same thing if I were to pick a fight with a professional boxer over picking a fight with a middle schooler. I would 100% adopt a house full of Pitbulls and Rottweilers and Dobermans over every owning another small terrier type of dog in my life.

 

[torene03]

Foe...I can no longer run my favorite route because a lady owns two vicious pit-bulls. They have snapped and growled at me numerous times. She just sits on her porch and watches. I've called out to her and she stays nothing back.

Just out of curiosity, would you have the same answer if the woman came off her porch and reprimanded her dogs? Or called them inside when she saw you coming? Would you say the same if if were a different breed of dog that snapped and growled at you?

 

[luvsJack]

That is my assumption, that is why I figure they could do a DNA test right there. I'm sure at one time cost was a factor, but you can order at home kits for your dog so I don't think it is too cost prohibitive now.

It would seem like they could. Good question! It would certainly make the data correct.

 

[TashK]

Goldens are my breed and just from your statement about when you got your puppy indicates to me that your pup didn't not come from an ethical breeder who bred for health and sound temperament (health clearances and lots of socialization). No good golden breeder would let their pups go before 8 weeks of age. The golden I have in my profile came from a show breeder who bred according to the national club's standards and put a lot of work into her puppies in terms of analyzing breed lines and socialization. Her temperament is bomb proof and is not afraid to investigate things after the initial "OMG what is that" moment. Her temperament and confidence compared to my last golden is vastly different. My last golden came from a backyard breeder who did not do anything like what the show breeder did. Now looking back, my last golden while still super friendly and sweet, was more scared of things

Mine too but I will say that when I was a vet nurse I was bitten by 3 different male Goldens. They are not always predictable when frightened in my experience.

Just like the Pit Bull lovers on this thread I could never imagine my Flat Coated Retriever turning and that in essence this is the problem. Animals are unpredictable & some breeds like Dachshunds are known to attack. The difference is that a Dachshund will not kill a human in a frenzied attack but a Pitt Bull and some other large breeds can and do.
For this reason these breeds should have restrictions placed on them just as any other weapon should.

 

[JAMIESMITH]

Just out of curiosity, would you have the same answer if the woman came off her porch and reprimanded her dogs? Or called them inside when she saw you coming? Would you say the same if if were a different breed of dog that snapped and growled at you?

Full disclosure: I am not a dog person. The problem in this case is definitely the idiot owner because these dogs are clearly not trained. The thing is, other breeds of dogs often approach me during my runs, but only these two make me feel threatened.

 

[LSUmiss]

No, what is dangerous is being an irresponsible dog owner who does not feel the need to train their pet or will leave small children alone with them no matter what breed they are. Obviously a bigger dog will do more damage if something happens, same thing if I were to pick a fight with a professional boxer over picking a fight with a middle schooler. I would 100% adopt a house full of Pitbulls and Rottweilers and Dobermans over every owning another small terrier type of dog in my life.

I agree 100% on irresponsible dog owners. But there are irresponsible owners of all breed types but still the breeds mentioned here still are more notorious for attacking. I agree on terriers but like has been said so many times already small dogs can’t kill ppl.

 

[torene03]

Full disclosure: I am not a dog person. The problem in this case is definitely the idiot owner because these dogs are clearly not trained. The thing is, other breeds of dogs often approach me during my runs, but only these two make me feel threatened.

Fair enough. Thanks for answering!

 

[ThistleMae]

In the U.K., pit bulls are banned and even cross breeds are not allowed. There is undeniably a correlation between certain breeds of dog and the number of attacks/ fatalities. While we don’t have pit bulls here, we do have Staffordshire bull terriers which are very similar to the pit bull. I do feel uncomfortable when we approach one on a walk, as they are known to have attacked other dogs in our village. Often dangerous dogs are required to wear a muzzle when out which is reassuring - however apparently not all of them actually do.

I didn't know what a Staffordshire Bull Terrier looked like, so I found this picture for folks who wanted to see what they look like.

 

[ThistleMae]

Friend. Any dog can snap at any moment, pits are just who the media is currently focusing on. All pits that I have met have been big babies and I can't wait to own one in the future. We had a terrier/poodle mix that we had to teach my young niece not to go near because she would attack and break skin, even though she started as the sweetest and cuddliest dog for the first few years. My brother also just had to give away their Aussie for attacking my niece completely unprovoked.

When folks mention completely unprovoked, not focusing on your comment, it just made me think...there is always a reason in the dogs mind, we just don't know what it is. Unless the animal has some sort of mental illness and snaps because of some brain disconnect, they react from something they've experienced or learned, and their temperament (partly genetic) plays a role.

 

[ThistleMae]

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/10-Breeds-Most-Commonly-Mistaken-For-Pit-Bulls

Here is a list of dogs that are mistaken for a pit bull. Some are bigger, some are stronger and some are more aggressive. These dogs or any mix of these dogs would be called “pit” if seen attacking or biting.

Except for the boxer, they all look very similar. Maybe because I have seen so many boxers, I don’t get the mistaken identity on that one.

ETA: this article does identify Pitt bull as a breed. Other articles say they are not an actual breed. So just more confusing info on that.

Thank you for this article. So many of these breeds look like the Pitt mix we see.

 

[ThistleMae]

Not just trained that way. Yes, some will be loving until they die, but the potential is there for them to turn. There has been more than one instance the last few years in our area where the family (loving) pit turned on family and killed one.

They have a jaw strength that won't turn loose and that's what makes them so dangerous when they do attack. I would not knowingly be around one - they aren't to be trusted (they are not alone on the list though, but you do hear about more maulings/deaths from them).

Yes, there are other dogs that attack without provocation, but don't have the jaw strength of the pit.

Has the Pitt's jaw strength been tested and compared to all other breeds of dog, and can scientifically be proved? Just wondering. Does anyone know?

 

[ThistleMae]

That is my assumption, that is why I figure they could do a DNA test right there. I'm sure at one time cost was a factor, but you can order at home kits for your dog so I don't think it is too cost prohibitive now.

My granddaughter just did one on her rescue, it wasn't very expensive.

 

[nkereina]

I know a couple of nice pit bulls and as read here, there are tons of great ones. But there's something to be said for the fact that when you hear about a dog attack, it's usually a pit bull. And also the fact that places outright prohibit them. You don't hear about Golden Retrievers ripping arms off or being banned from a Homeowners Association. Just saying.

That said, I know that training can make a big difference in the demeanor of a dog. I know a couple of pit bull owners who I trust and their dogs are great. Unfortunately, not all pit bull owners have the knowledge or discipline it takes to turn a pit bull into a well behaved one.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

When folks mention completely unprovoked, not focusing on your comment, it just made me think...there is always a reason in the dogs mind, we just don't know what it is. Unless the animal has some sort of mental illness and snaps because of some brain disconnect, they react from something they've experienced or learned, and their temperament (partly genetic) plays a role.

There's little doubt that with children, a bite can be elicited from the prey drive - the dog sees a child running, screaming and flailing, and their instinct is to go after it. Which is a big reason why there should be supervision around dogs and children and the dog under the owner's observation and control and at all times.

There's a lot parents and families can do to keep their kids safe around dogs, too - always ask before petting a dog, pet on the back instead of the head or face, don't put their face right near a strange dog as they are often head to head at a child's height - I can't tell you how many children would come right up in my GSDs' faces, be extra careful with running and flailing games around dogs, especially dogs that appear uncomfortable or nervous, never tease a dog, avoid rough play that pits dog against human, do not allow dog teeth on human skin ever, even in play, be cautious with food around dogs, never let child go near dog's treats - especially high value ones like raw hides or bones, speak kindly and be gentle with dogs, let them come to you, if one appears nervous just keep going, respect if someone says the dog can't be patted, etc.

There is a whole branch of forensics that studies death from dog bites. They can actually make casts of suspected dogs' teeth to match them to wounds, especially in the case of a pack of dogs to see which ones caused the fatal wounds. This can actually save a dog from euthanization if circumstances were complex. They also examine stomach contents of dogs who've bitten to see if they've been fed - hunger is thought to be one of the reasons dogs can go after people when they haven't been fed for days. Oftentimes deadly incidents are from dogs known to the dead person.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Has the Pitt's jaw strength been tested and compared to all other breeds of dog, and can scientifically be proved? Just wondering. Does anyone know?

Yes

 

[ThistleMae]

There's little doubt that with children, a bite can be elicited from the prey drive - the dog sees a child running, screaming and flailing, and their instinct is to go after it. Which is a big reason why there should be supervision around dogs and children and the dog under the owner's observation and control and at all times.

There's a lot parents and families can do to keep their kids safe around dogs, too - always ask before petting a dog, pet on the back instead of the head or face, don't put their face right near a strange dog as they are often head to head at a child's height - I can't tell you how many children would come right up in my GSDs' faces, be extra careful with running and flailing games around dogs, especially dogs that appear uncomfortable or nervous, never tease a dog, avoid rough play that pits dog against human, do not allow dog teeth on human skin ever, even in play, be cautious with food around dogs, never let child go near dog's treats - especially high value ones like raw hides or bones, speak kindly and be gentle with dogs, let them come to you, if one appears nervous just keep going, respect if someone says the dog can't be patted, etc.

There is a whole branch of forensics that studies death from dog bites. They can actually make casts of suspected dogs' teeth to match them to wounds, especially in the case of a pack of dogs to see which ones caused the fatal wounds. This can actually save a dog from euthanization if circumstances were complex. They also examine stomach contents of dogs who've bitten to see if they've been fed - hunger is thought to be one of the reasons dogs can go after people when they haven't been fed for days. Oftentimes deadly incidents are from dogs known to the dead person.

You give such good advice in here. It's true...you have to consider dog behavior in general. Dogs chase things. Dogs use their mouths to get and retrieve. They are attracted to sounds and moving objects. Their mouths are their tools to interact with other dogs and objects. Just something really simple to consider, especially around small, hand waving, excited children.