Pete Rose Mock Trial on ESPN

[Adrianna]

Did anyone see it last night?? CRAP I wanted to watch it!! I have a big beef with Pete - I hate him I met him when he was a Phillie in 1980, he was appearing at a store close to where I lived. He was a, for lack of a more PC word, a big doodyhead and I've hated him ever since.

Anyway, I was interested in seeing this mock trial, so if you watched it let me know how it was and if they'll be replaying it.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/roseontrial.html

 

[ChibiJones]

I watched it. I thought Dershowitz did a better job than Cochren. Dershowitz turned most Cochren's witnesses around on cross-exam.

At the end, I sided with the prosecution that he should not be in the Hall of Fame. The jury was split 8-4 that he should be in the Hall of Fame. They were also 11-1 in believing that he did bet on baseball.

 

[olena]

If he is ever inducted, it should be posthumously. I'm tired of hearing people say that he's suffered enough. Not as long as Shoeless Joe...who supposedly bet on one series and there's less proof on Jackson than there is on Rose. So if we're gonna throw Rose a bone and say it's OK to sell out the National Pastime, then they should let EVERY manager and player bet on games. Why not? They'd just get banned for a little while til public opinion goes soft on their situation.

What's the point of rules, if no one has respect for them?

 

[Adrianna]

Believe me, I am NOT a Pete Rose fan, after the way I was treated when I met him. But I do respect him as a player, he was great.

My only problem is........ are there any other guys in the HOF that have done "less than honorable" things? What Pete Rose did was wrong, totally wrong, and he should just admit it and beg for forgiveness. All I'm saying is that I'm sure there are guys that have been inducted that aren't choir boys themselves, so that should be taken into account as well. I believe if Rose admits it, does his "time" - i.e., some sort of help with gamblers or something to make amends - then he can be forgiven. But if he can't even admit it, he can kiss my butt

I hope they replay it, I'm so bummed I missed it!! Did anyone tape it or anything?

 

[olena]

There are PLENTY of guys in the HOF who aren't perfect. Some cheated on their wives, beat their wives, drank a lot, etc.

On the door to every clubhouse, there is a sign with a list of rules. None of those rules say to be perfect or lead a perfect life, but there most certainly is one that explicitly forbids betting on the game. This is THE sin you can't commit....whether you get over 4,000 hits or just 200.

Why is this such a big deal? If the fans don't think the game is being played on the level or that players' performances have been corrupted by wagers, they won't care. Why should they? At that point, it's ceases to be a game and becomes scripted entertainment with a decided outcome.

That's how fans felt back in 1920 when the Black Sox scandal finally blew up. Fans saw that the game had no integrity and it became a crisis for the owners. They stood to lose a LOT of money. How did they solve it? They had to do something fast to show the public that baseball had high standards and integrity. The owners went out and created an all-powerful Commissioner. They sacrificed much of their own control over the game to preserve their business. They hired a Federal Judge who was known for his love for the game. In the public's eye, he was honorable, so the fans began to trust again. He promptly banned the Black Sox conspirators.

As much as I don't care for Bud Selig, I have to admire his stand on Rose. Bud might be a moron, but he understands these basic principles.

Banishment from baseball doesn't mean that someone goes into the record books and erases Rose's name from every column. It means that he can't work in baseball. He can't play. Rose isn't being demonized or victimized for the heck of it. He made a horrible decision and the consequences of his actions are well-documented. It happened to Jim Devlin. It happened to the Black Sox. Knowing all that, he bet anyway. Was he so arrogant to think that it would be OK for HIM to do it and get away with it? Lifting his banishment would mean just that. He WOULD get away with it ultimately. He WOULD be esteemed in the hallowed halls at Cooperstown. It would be OK to sell out the game, deny it, never apologize as long as you had an outstanding career.

 

[Tiggeroo]

What bugs me about Pete Rose, in addition to what alot have said here is he was caught. He was clearly caught. Yet any time he gets the chance to speak he says he was innocent and being picked on. It wouldn't change his admittance into the hall of fame , but if he had apologized I would have respected him as a man who made a bad mistake.

 

[ChibiJones]

are there any other guys in the HOF that have done "less than honorable" things? What Pete Rose did was wrong, totally wrong, and he should just admit it and beg for forgiveness. All I'm saying is that I'm sure there are guys that have been inducted that aren't choir boys themselves

That was one of the points that the defense (Chochren) focused on. My take on it was that those transgressions didn't affect the game. Betting on the game when you have so much control over the outcome directly affects the game.

With all the talk about gambling addiction they had last night, I just don't buy that he did not start gambling until he became a manager. Even though there's no direct proof, both gambling addiction experts were clear that an addict will go with what he has an "edge" in. That's just my gut feeling though.

I also found interesting that when he didn't bet on a particular game, that sent a signal through the gambling ring to bet on the other team. In that sense, it seems similar to insider trading.

 

[Adrianna]

Thanks guys, good points. I dont give a crap about him, and if he he never gets in, TFB for him cuz he deserves it. I have no sympathy for him. Maybe someday he'll at least admit his mistake and slither back to the hole from which he came.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Well I have to speak up for all the Pete Rose fans who are probably afraid to say anything and say I like him, he belongs in the hall, and I won't post again on this thread because I don't feel the need to defend my position.
Robin M.