People interested in Poly2: are you hoping for new association or same?

[CaptainAmerica]

2 -- Between distances, design of pathways, and by having enough features at the new building, discourage guests from going over to the Poly pool. Sure, it's "allowed"... but like Kidani/Jambo... If you're staying at Kidani, you have a great pool of your own. The Jambo pool is far and vice versa. It can be a half-mile walk from a Kidani room to the main pool.... not worth it, when you have a perfectly good pool of your own.

You're ignoring the fact that traffic is two-way.

If you make the PVB2 pool awesome, you would want to encourage traffic back and forth to alleviate congestion at Lava.

Everyone seems to be stuck on this idea that PVB2 guests might want to swim at the PVB1 pool while completely ignoring the idea that PVB1 guests might want to swim at the PVB2 pool.

 

[havoc315]

You're ignoring the fact that traffic is two-way.

If you make the PVB2 pool awesome, you would want to encourage traffic back and forth to alleviate congestion at Lava.

Everyone seems to be stuck on this idea that PVB2 guests might want to swim at the PVB1 pool while completely ignoring the idea that PVB1 guests might want to swim at the PVB2 pool.

You do NOT want to encourage traffic if it would primarily go one-way.
If the pools would draw equal demand -- There are new features at the new pool that would draw people away from Lava, yes ---
But the artwork thus far depicts an adult oriented infinity pool.

Poly currently has 1 feature/family pool and 1 adult/quiet pool.
The adult/quiet pool does not have a major crowd issue.

If you add another adult/quiet pool -- You aren't going to draw a lot people away from the feature/family pool. Those guests already have an adult/quiet pool they can use.
On the other hand, families and kids will continue to be drawn to the quiet pool.

If traffic equally both ways currently between the Lava Pool and the Poly East pool? No, traffic does not flow equally -- far more guests are attracted to the Lava pool.

You can't just assume that adding a new pool will automatically create equal 2-way traffic. It will depend on the features and attractiveness of the pool. It will also depend on the relative distances between the pools.
Someone staying at Pago Pago longhouse who wants a quiet pool will almost certainly use the Poly East pool, as opposed to a 10-15 minute walk all the way to the new pool. On the other hand, someone staying at Fiji -- If they want a quiet pool, might now go to the new pool. But if they want a feature pool, will still go to the Lava Pool.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You can't just assume that adding a new pool will automatically create equal 2-way traffic.

Nor can you assume that adding a new pool would automatically create disproportionate 1-way traffic.

I'm not saying PVB2 will relieve Lava crowding, I'm saying it may. I'm not coming to the opposite conclusion as you, I'm rejecting the idea of making a conclusion whatsoever.

But the artwork thus far depicts an adult oriented infinity pool.

You seem to be basing your assumptions on this, and I think it's just a huge leap to go to based on a single concept image.

 

[havoc315]

Nor can you assume that adding a new pool would automatically create disproportionate 1-way traffic.

I'm not saying PVB2 will relieve Lava crowding, I'm saying it may. I'm not coming to the opposite conclusion as you, I'm rejecting the idea of making a conclusion whatsoever.


You seem to be basing your assumptions on this, and I think it's just a huge leap to go to based on a single concept image.

I'm not making any conclusions. I've been equivocal consistently. We don't know. We only have the evidence thus far.
We don't know anything. They may scrap the whole thing. They may mostly scrap the artwork. They may already have a concept for a huge feature pool that simply isn't in the artwork. They may put it in the same association, may be different association. They may ultimately decide to make it a whole new resort, "Disney Aloha Village"... 2 resorts easily walkable to each other, like Beach Club and Boardwalk.
I'm not making any assumptions.
This is all hypothetical --- IF the sole pool is the pool shown in the artwork -- an adult-oriented pool, THEN, I expect the Volcano pool to become even more crowded. I do not know this with certainty. I don't know HOW much more crowded. But it is a fairly safe hypothesis -- That if you add 1,000 nightly guests, and you do NOT add another feature pool, THEN, the sole feature pool will likely get more crowded.
Do you really disagree with that fairly simply hypothesis?

 

[BamaGuy44]

Reports have been that everything is crowded this spring and that's when the PP's friend was visiting. March Madness isn't just about college basketball anymore!

I get the park crowds have been crazy, but isn’t Poly full pretty much all the time, even in “normal” times? I wouldnt think it’s that much different now than in the past, but I don’t know. We don’t use the pools that much so I don’t notice the crowds there really

 

[emilymad]

I would be interested if it a new association. I would want the longer expiration date. My main concerns are around things like the pools, transportation, dining, etc that is already overcrowded before adding these new rooms. We didn't consider the Poly for our add on because of these things. Disney could treat the Volcano pool like they do SAB and monitor with wrist bands but they don't. Crowding will only get worse and it doesn't make for a nice experience. If I am paying to stay at a high end resort I don't want to have to fight to use the amenities with day guests.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I don’t think they have enough room to build an equally themed area like the volcano pool at Poly2. Doesn’t seem like it would fit with the resort either. My bet is that it will be nice, but overall the volcano pool will see a surge in activity.

 

[Marionnette]

I get the park crowds have been crazy, but isn’t Poly full pretty much all the time, even in “normal” times? I wouldnt think it’s that much different now than in the past, but I don’t know. We don’t use the pools that much so I don’t notice the crowds there really

I think that we're seeing an uptick in the number of guests who are doing "resort days" as a result of high nightly rates, costly theme park tickets and the need to make theme park reservations. This isn't just a Volcano Pool problem. But Disney should also be more proactive about monitoring guests who should not be using the pool at all. There's definitely a surge in the number of non-resort guests who sneak into the near-park feature pools during school breaks.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

How do the pools work at Bay Lake Tower and Contemporary? If I remember correctly BLT has a pool and BLT guests can also use the two Contemporary pools, but Contemporary guests can't use the BLT pool.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

How do the pools work at Bay Lake Tower and Contemporary? If I remember correctly BLT has a pool and BLT guests can also use the two Contemporary pools, but Contemporary guests can't use the BLT pool.

Correct.

 

[havoc315]

How do the pools work at Bay Lake Tower and Contemporary? If I remember correctly BLT has a pool and BLT guests can also use the two Contemporary pools, but Contemporary guests can't use the BLT pool.

That is correct. But neither pool is particularly great. They are both sub-par pools as far as Disney resorts go.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

That is correct. But neither pool is particularly great. They are both sub-par pools as far as Disney resorts go.

I agree!

 

[Sandisw]

I totally get it. I am not trying to be a PITA, lol. I am just trying to think through this. It's an interesting discussion. Imagine if those cash guests can't get any seats at the Volcano pool throughout their weeklong stay because another 1500 guests are now staying nearby and have access to that already high-demand pool. An acquaintance of ours literally just experience that in February (we randomly bumped into her when we were there during our split stay). They were there for her daughter's senior trip and she commented how p*ssed they were that they were spending that much money (which in general they were OK with because it was a special trip) and couldn't get a spot at the pool. That would be a problem to me if I was a person at Disney deciding these things.

Whatever, though. I guess we will see. I don't have an interest either way...except for when I stay there, lol. I just think Disney knows how crammed that Volcano pool is (it is one of the restricted pool hopping pools for a reason) and there would need to be some sort of mitigation when adding that many new guests. And I just don't think that adding a pool at Poly2 is going to spread out the demand. Volcano pool is the draw. It would be like adding a new movie theatre right next door to the existing theatre and all customers get to access both, but one theatre has the "A list" movies and the other has the "B list" movies. And that "A list" theatre was already oversold and seats were given out "first come, first served". I can promise you that getting a seat for those "A list" movies will now be a major headache. Sure some people from the "A list" theater might go watch some movies at the "B list" theatre, but the scales will definitely be tipped to the side of the "B list" wanting to go to the "A list". There is no way the new Poly2 resort doesn't negatively impact the access at the Volcano pool if those Poly2 guests have access.

Good discussion, though

I have had plenty of trips where I could not get seats at a pool...that happens all the time. And yes, I have had it happen at Poly (the one time I stayed in the summer). I was thinking more about it and thought about it this way that helps how we have so many different situations, even now:

BRV/CCV - two different DVC resorts, all located at the cash hotel location of WL. Both have similar types of rooms you can book. Each is its own condo association and each has its own unique name. Each has its own point chart. Guests of either have full access to all this location has to offer.

AKV Jambo/AKV Kidani - two different DVC building, located at the cash hotel location of AKL. Both have similar types of rooms you can book. Same condo association, but each building is its own booking category. Same point chart with all options listed. Guests of either have full access to all this location has to offer.

VGF - two different buildings, but each offers different types of accommodation, both located at the hotel of GF. One is all resort studios, one offers other rooms sizes. Same condo association and no difference in name of the buildings. One point chart with all options listed. Guests have full access to all this location has to offer.

Now, we have what is happening at Poly. So far, we know its slated to be part of the hotel's location. But, how its rolled out is still the mystery. It will follow one of the above situations unless, as I said, they decide it will not be part of the Poly Village Resort.

If that happens, then it will not only have a new name, it would be advertised as a new resort located between the Poly and the GF. It would also guarantee it would be a new condo association because it won't be associated in any way with the current hotel.

I agree that no matter what, as long as it is part of the Poly, it is going to add to the number of guests using the amenities there. But, they are putting in a third pool which will help.

 

[Sandisw]

Cash guests, yes. It's not that hard to restrict DVC compared to cash guests. And the new Poly2 is a DVC addition, isn't it? They may have some cash stays there, but the large majority will be DVC. They wouldn't have to restrict the smaller number of cash guests.

It is a building that will be 100% DVC villas, but it is being built at the Poly resort. There are really two things in play here. The location of the new tower AND whether or not it is considered a new DVC condo association or rolled into the current Poly one.

If it is rolled into the current one, then all terms of the current POS apply. If it is a new association, it will have its own POS rule. But, every single DVC resort located at a shared resort (cash/DVC choices) has language in the POS that allows them to access all amenities at its sister cash counterpart.

Only way Poly tower is excluded from using Poly amenities is if it is not added to the Poly resort itself. DVD has announced that it is being added as new room options at the Poly resort.

 

[Sandisw]

BINGO!!! It is a simple situation as to why it has to be the same. Can you imagine a guest saying to a CM, "Wait, I am staying at the Polynesian but that side is the also the Polynesian but not the Polynesian?"

It actually does not. You can have this tower be a new DVC condo association, AND be just another building at the Poly resort. Both current PVB owners and owners of the new Poly would both be given the same access to the amenities at the Poly resort.

The Volcano pool is not a DVC pool. It is a pool for the Poly Village Resort that was there long before PVB was added to the resort. PVB owners currently get access to that because they are allowed access to all resort amentiies.

The tower guests would be given the same rights, even if DVC makes it a new condo association.

 

[havoc315]

I have had plenty of trips where I could not get seats at a pool...that happens all the time. And yes, I have had it happen at Poly (the one time I stayed in the summer). I was thinking more about it and thought about it this way that helps how we have so many different situations, even now:

BRV/CCV - two different DVC resorts, all located at the cash hotel location of WL. Both have similar types of rooms you can book. Each is its own condo association and each has its own unique name. Each has its own point chart. Guests of either have full access to all this location has to offer.

AKV Jambo/AKV Kidani - two different DVC building, located at the cash hotel location of AKL. Both have similar types of rooms you can book. Same condo association, but each building is its own booking category. Same point chart with all options listed. Guests of either have full access to all this location has to offer.

VGF - two different buildings, but each offers different types of accommodation, both located at the hotel of GF. One is all resort studios, one offers other rooms sizes. Same condo association and no difference in name of the buildings. One point chart with all options listed. Guests have full access to all this location has to offer.

Now, we have what is happening at Poly. So far, we know its slated to be part of the hotel's location. But, how its rolled out is still the mystery. It will follow one of the above situations unless, as I said, they decide it will not be part of the Poly Village Resort.

If that happens, then it will not only have a new name, it would be advertised as a new resort located between the Poly and the GF. It would also guarantee it would be a new condo association because it won't be associated in any way with the current hotel.

I agree that no matter what, as long as it is part of the Poly, it is going to add to the number of guests using the amenities there. But, they are putting in a third pool which will help.

Some critical things to keep in mind, which makes the new Poly building more unique than those other situations:

BRV... CCV later added. The addition of CCV did not add a significant number of guests. They mostly converted cash rooms to DVC rooms. The cabins don't bring in a huge relative number of new guests. So usage of the pre-existing amenities did not change much.

Jambo/Kidani -- Kidani DID bring in a huge addition of guests. But they fully built our Kidani amenities, with its own feature pool, etc. With the massive size of AKL, while amenities are shared, the reality is few Kidani guests are going to venture out to the main AKL pool between it being so far, and they already have their own feature pool.

VGF -- Pure room conversion, it did not add to the number of guests using the resort.

So the question with Poly, is will they go towards the Jambo/Kidani model -- and FULLY build out new amenities with the new addition, including a new feature pool that would be equally appealing as the Volcano pool. Or will it be an appendage on the existing resort.. some new dining and amenities, but still heavily reliant on the old Poly amenities. (Not just pool, will it have it's own check-in and lobby (almost definitely yes), will it have it's own QS (some dining certainly, whether it will have a full QS, unknown), its own hot tub (I'm strongly suspecting yes), it's own sundry shop, it's own bus stop).

 

[Sandisw]

Some critical things to keep in mind, which makes the new Poly building more unique than those other situations:

BRV... CCV later added. The addition of CCV did not add a significant number of guests. They mostly converted cash rooms to DVC rooms. The cabins don't bring in a huge relative number of new guests. So usage of the pre-existing amenities did not change much.

Jambo/Kidani -- Kidani DID bring in a huge addition of guests. But they fully built our Kidani amenities, with its own feature pool, etc. With the massive size of AKL, while amenities are shared, the reality is few Kidani guests are going to venture out to the main AKL pool between it being so far, and they already have their own feature pool.

VGF -- Pure room conversion, it did not add to the number of guests using the resort.

So the question with Poly, is will they go towards the Jambo/Kidani model -- and FULLY build out new amenities with the new addition, including a new feature pool that would be equally appealing as the Volcano pool. Or will it be an appendage on the existing resort.. some new dining and amenities, but still heavily reliant on the old Poly amenities. (Not just pool, will it have it's own check-in and lobby (almost definitely yes), will it have it's own QS (some dining certainly, whether it will have a full QS, unknown), its own hot tub (I'm strongly suspecting yes), it's own sundry shop, it's own bus stop).

I definitely agree that the CCV/BRV decision to make them different condo associations made a lot of sense because of the expiration date. And, that is something that isn't a factor here in the same way.

In terms of the pool, there is not one deluxe hotel out there that does not have a feature pool. So, if this is not part of the Poly resort and the guests are not allowed to use the Volcano pool, then it would be the only resort on property that would be without one.

To me, the fact that they have only included so far, the infinity pool and nothing else, supports the messaging that this is part of Poly, regardless of what decision is made for the DVC condo association. But, there is always the chance that changes and I think if you do see a new feature pool built, then it would indicate they are moving away from it being part of the Poly resort (which then ensures its a new condo association).

As I shared, there really are two things at play. From the announcement, one has been deciding. It is being added to the Poly resort. One thing missing is how DVD will treat it.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Some critical things to keep in mind, which makes the new Poly building more unique than those other situations:

BRV... CCV later added. The addition of CCV did not add a significant number of guests. They mostly converted cash rooms to DVC rooms. The cabins don't bring in a huge relative number of new guests. So usage of the pre-existing amenities did not change much.

Jambo/Kidani -- Kidani DID bring in a huge addition of guests. But they fully built our Kidani amenities, with its own feature pool, etc. With the massive size of AKL, while amenities are shared, the reality is few Kidani guests are going to venture out to the main AKL pool between it being so far, and they already have their own feature pool.

VGF -- Pure room conversion, it did not add to the number of guests using the resort.

So the question with Poly, is will they go towards the Jambo/Kidani model -- and FULLY build out new amenities with the new addition, including a new feature pool that would be equally appealing as the Volcano pool. Or will it be an appendage on the existing resort.. some new dining and amenities, but still heavily reliant on the old Poly amenities. (Not just pool, will it have it's own check-in and lobby (almost definitely yes), will it have it's own QS (some dining certainly, whether it will have a full QS, unknown), its own hot tub (I'm strongly suspecting yes), it's own sundry shop, it's own bus stop).

I do feel with the added volume of people that will now be using the on-site amenities, they will have to add another feature pool at Poly2.

 

[havoc315]

I definitely agree that the CCV/BRV decision to make them different condo associations made a lot of sense because of the expiration date. And, that is something that isn't a factor here in the same way.

In terms of the pool, there is not one deluxe hotel out there that does not have a feature pool. So, if this is not part of the Poly resort and the guests are not allowed to use the Volcano pool, then it would be the only resort on property that would be without one.

To me, the fact that they have only included so far, the infinity pool and nothing else, supports the messaging that this is part of Poly, regardless of what decision is made for the DVC condo association. But, there is always the chance that changes and I think if you do see a new feature pool built, then it would indicate they are moving away from it being part of the Poly resort (which then ensures its a new condo association).

As I shared, there really are two things at play. From the announcement, one has been deciding. It is being added to the Poly resort. One thing missing is how DVD will treat it.

Agreed. If they do add a new feature pool, that still opens 2 directions: Even with a new feature pool, could be part of Poly and same association, like Kidani.
It could become like Riviera — a new standalone resort built on property that used to be part of another resort.

As to the contract length, they may be watching GFV sales, surveying buyers. Is GFV losing sales to RIV when people discover its 6 years longer, or is that a non-factor. So they may be waiting to see what happens with GFV sales before making a decision on Poly.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Agreed. If they do add a new feature pool, that still opens 2 directions: Even with a new feature pool, could be part of Poly and same association, like Kidani.
It could become like Riviera — a new standalone resort built on property that used to be part of another resort.

As to the contract length, they may be watching GFV sales, surveying buyers. Is GFV losing sales to RIV when people discover its 6 years longer, or is that a non-factor. So they may be waiting to see what happens with GFV sales before making a decision on Poly.

But if increased sales gravitate to VGF2, it may be because of the resale restrictions and not length of time on the contract. Not exactly apples to apples.