Paying bills versus going on vacation or other non-essentials

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

60-100% discount for single individuals with incomes between $43,740 and $58,320

2023 figures HUD considers in my metro a single person to be 60% of the median income to be $43,080 and low income to be $57,400 certainly helps the low and below income people but still 60% of a discount leaves a possible 40% of a burden (unless they go with more of a discount) and does zero for those above low income. If you take into consideration that there are usually programs for low income people it's probably not even all that generous.

The middle class, whatever is left of it, are the ones with the largest proportion of medical debt, makes sense as government programs aren't usually aimed at them, wealthier classes usually have more disposable incomes.

 

[shh]

Our in state publics are $30,000+ a year with room and board ($15,000 to commute). Nothing fancy or prestigious, those would be $90,000 a year. Two of my kids are almost done paying off loans, they started out paying $1000 a month (good salaries, all of my kids’ chosen professions require a college degree, one needs a doctorate, two require post college exams).

Two year community colleges are still the best bargain around - but many families turn up their noses at it. Those 1st two years are 101/basic classes anyway: billed at double or even triple per credit hour at a state university vs taking same class and curriculum at a community college.

I saved tens of thousands living at home, attending a CC, transferring to 4-year. Most states have a CC/state university agreement guaranteeing credit transfer towards a BA/BS, upon 2 year AA/AS degree. I worked with the CC guidance counselor early on and it was all smooth going.

Did I get the classic "college experience" - dorms, full university amenities, etc? Nope. That comes at a higher cost. I disagree with loan forgiveness if there's a local CC option the family rejects.

I do support reduced loan INTEREST or interest forgiveness - just not the loan itself.

Medical debt breaks my heart! Cancer or other huge health issues strike some of us so randomly - while others are untouched. I'm as responsible as they come - but candidly, I'm not sure I'd be motivated to try to pay off hundreds of thousands in medical bills before treating myself to a few life experiences, if I'm suddenly anticipating a much shorter lifespan.

The U.S. healthcare system is seriously broken in many ways: it's a harsh reality even WITH insurance. I don't consider medical debt quite the same as debt one chooses by choice. Try to pay it - definitely. But to the extent of everything else? Nope.

 

[mjkacmom]

Two year community colleges are still the best bargain in town - but too many kids and parents turn up their noses at it. Those first two years are just 101/basic classes anyway - the only difference is you pay double or even triple per credit hour vs taking the exact same class and curriculum in a 4-year state university vs at community college.

It's what I did, living at home - saved tens of thousands.

But families want that quintessential "college experience" for their kids right from the start - meaning dorms, full university amenities, etc, and I get that.

I just feel they should be held responsible for any loans - vs taxpayer funded loan forgiveness if there is a local community college option they reject.

CC here is $10,000, 4 year $15,000, but not all credits are guaranteed to transfer from a CC. Plus, merit awards are for freshmen, and FA isn’t always available to transfer students.

 

[Southernmiss]

Dh and I always said CC and transfer to university would be an option for our kids, like dh and I did.

Until we were actual parents of kids looking at college.

It was much better for our kids to take the full 4 year merit scholarship and go right to university from high school.

All 4 of them graduated/will graduate with no debt, money in their pockets and 3 with connections and experiences to get them into grad school and pharmacy school.

Our pharmD has student loans for his doctorate. How else could a civilian pay $35,000 plus for 3 years in a rigorous doctoral program ?

Our med school student was fortunate to be able to and get accepted in a military service program to pay for medical school which would easily be over $200,000. But that's definitely not an option for all, especially those with a preexisting condition through no fault of their own.

 

[mjkacmom]

Dh and I always said CC and transfer to university would be an option for our kids, like dh and I did.

Until we were actual parents of kids looking at college.

It was much better for our kids to take the full 4 year merit scholarship and go right to university from high school.

All 4 of them graduated/will graduate with no debt, money in their pockets and 3 with connections and experiences to get them into grad school and pharmacy school.

Our pharmD has student loans for his doctorate. How else could a civilian pay $35,000 plus for 3 years in a rigorous doctoral program ?

Our med school student was fortunate to be able to and get accepted in a military service program to pay for medical school which would easily be over $200,000. But that's definitely not an option for all, especially those with a preexisting condition through no fault of their own.

My daughter’s DPT costs $60,000 a year after merit, does not include housing. She new she wanted to be a physical therapist since freshman year in HS, unfortunately it’s a pricy program.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

PS: To be clear, a person in the US can easily rack up MILLION$ in medical bills, especially for cancer treatment (or speaking of children and debt, a premature birth. I know several people who didn't manage to save for their children's college fund because 16 years later they were still paying off the hospital bills from the child's birth.)

Yes, to all of this!

In 2011, I was diagnosed with uterine and ovarian cancer at the same time. I had 3 surgeries, and 2 almost week long hospital stays as well as 6 months of chemo. My bills were well over 1 million. My chemo treatments alone were 30k per treatment.

Thankfully we had excellent health insurance, all I had to pay was the $25 co-pay when I would see my oncologist.

Medical bills are insane. I say, take the trip!

 

[disney-inspired]

Yes, to all of this!

In 2011, I was diagnosed with uterine and ovarian cancer at the same time. I had 3 surgeries, and 2 almost week long hospital stays as well as 6 months of chemo. My bills were well over 1 million. My chemo treatments alone were 30k per treatment.

Thankfully we had excellent health insurance, all I had to pay was the $25 co-pay when I would see my oncologist.

Medical bills are insane. I say, take the trip!

Glad you're still here! I am so thankful my insurance covered the majority of my treatment, too.

 

[shh]

It was much better for our kids to take the full 4 year merit scholarship and go right to university from high school.

Certainly, if that's offered, sure is the better way. But many kids aren't going to get those coveted scholarships. They're smart enough to get to and thru college, but aren't academic or athletic standouts.

For many of those kids, it's better for them (and their parent's financial health) to "test the waters" for a lot less $$$ in CC; graduate there, then transfer to pricier 4-yr tuition rates. (No one knows or cares if someone started at CC - they only see the final bachelor's degree.)

I've known quite a few kids that enrolled in universities, then dropped out a couple years in: decided college wasn't for them, wanted a few gap years to work/travel, didn't like their major anymore or partied too much/flunked out. That's a lot of tuition money down the drain!

 

[barkley]

CC here is $10,000, 4 year $15,000, but not all credits are guaranteed to transfer from a CC. Plus, merit awards are for freshmen, and FA isn’t always available to transfer students.

hands down the least expensive way to go here is for a kid to opt for 'running start' in highschool-get their first 2 years done during their jr/sr year of high school w/ the only cost being books. despite having the number of units to qualify upon completion as a college jr. they are considered incoming freshman for the purpose of all forms of scholarships. there are a few bachelor's degrees offered at community colleges here which can be a savings for a student as well.

 

[disney-inspired]

hands down the least expensive way to go here is for a kid to opt for 'running start' in highschool-get their first 2 years done during their jr/sr year of high school w/ the only cost being books. despite having the number of units to qualify upon completion as a college jr. they are considered incoming freshman for the purpose of all forms of scholarships. there are a few bachelor's degrees offered at community colleges here which can be a savings for a student as well.

I went to an alternate high school to do this but was very undecided what I wanted to pursue so I didn't take full advantage of it.

 

[SpaceMan5]

In 2011, I was diagnosed with uterine and ovarian cancer at the same time. I had 3 surgeries, and 2 almost week long hospital stays as well as 6 months of chemo. My bills were well over 1 million. My chemo treatments alone were 30k per treatment.

Thankfully we had excellent health insurance, all I had to pay was the $25 co-pay when I would see my oncologist.

Medical bills are insane. I say, take the trip!

So nice to hear you are a survivor. Which also means you are a true fighter!

Take the trip was also my sentiment as I posted earlier in this thread. Some have said they wouldn't want to burden those left behind with debt. Me personally, if I was left behind I would say screw the debt! I would cherish the memory of that last trip that much more deeply

 

[MrsPete]

Please be careful with this comment as it shows clear ignorance to the modern college student. Most kids don't go to a name brand school. They go to their local state university, which although public, may still be expensive. And they may still rack up a lot of student debt in the process going to this "non-name brand" college.

Source?
I'm sure some kids do this, but "most"?

I think folks who didn’t go to college recently or have kids in college really don’t understand the current tuition crisis which has outpaced salaries and increased almost 200% in the last 20 years. Our in state publics are $30,000+ a year with room and board ($15,000 to commute). Nothing fancy or prestigious, those would be $90,000 a year. Two of my kids are almost done paying off loans, they started out paying $1000 a month (good salaries, all of my kids’ chosen professions require a college degree, one needs a doctorate, two require post college exams).

My youngest finished college in 2020, so I've been involved in college finances recently.
My youngest started at community college. I just looked up the cost of tuition & fees in 2023 (for two semesters) -- $2,432 -- work 9 weeks at minimum wage x 20 hours/week, and you've got that paid; seriously, any student with a healthy body and no dependents can manage that.

I also looked up the cost of attendance in 2023 at the state university both of my kids attended:
Tuition & fees (two semesters) -- $7,970 -- that's harder to do on minimum wage, but a student who works all summer and part time during the school year can knock out a portion of it /allowing him or her to borrow less.
Dorm & meal plan (two semesters) -- $11,582

On a personal note......this year we have over $10,000 worth of medical bills (it's been a bad year).

Yeah, us too.

The college loan issue is not due to lattes and pedicures.

It's a multi-fauceted issue.
Yes, costs are up, but students these days are ALSO living "higher on the hog" than we did when I was in college in the 80s.
When I was in college practically all my friends had jobs, and I didn't know anyone who didn't work in the summer -- many people worked multiple jobs. Not everyone had a car. College students rarely ate out (we even brought Tupperware to the cafeteria and snuck out cereal and sandwiches because we couldn't afford snacks for the dorms).
From what I see, my kids' college friends seem to have more and spend more. And my kids told me they were in the minority holding down part-time jobs during the school year.
Doesn't mean costs aren't up, but lifestyle is A PART of the issue.

my oldest has a friend who is complaining endlessly on facebook about her student loan debt but she CHOSE to attend a local private university over the public because (as she explains it)-

'the campus was soooooooooooo much prettier'

'they did'nt charge any fee to apply but the public university did-i figured it would save me money to go there'

I have taught high school seniors for a long time, and I hear these justifications often:
- I love the Student Union! They have free pool tables!
- Yes, the tuition is expensive, but it includes textbooks, and you can check out Ipads and XBoxes from the front desk!
- I've always imagined myself going to college someplace up north, walking to class in the snow wearing a smart little pea coat and a beret.
- The on campus apartments are so nice! The kitchens have granite counter tops and dishwashers!

 

[ronandannette]

To the original question, we have over the years, occasionally carried a credit card balance for a vacation when we were comfortable with our own plan to pay it off. We'd do it again tomorrow if the circumstances fit. If one of us had a terminal diagnosis, we'd know the life insurance payout would be ample to both settle our affairs and provide something for the family. No contest - we're vacationing.

 

[kathyk2]

Source?
I'm sure some kids do this, but "most"?

My youngest finished college in 2020, so I've been involved in college finances recently.
My youngest started at community college. I just looked up the cost of tuition & fees in 2023 (for two semesters) -- $2,432 -- work 9 weeks at minimum wage x 20 hours/week, and you've got that paid; seriously, any student with a healthy body and no dependents can manage that.

I also looked up the cost of attendance in 2023 at the state university both of my kids attended:
Tuition & fees (two semesters) -- $7,970 -- that's harder to do on minimum wage, but a student who works all summer and part time during the school year can knock out a portion of it /allowing him or her to borrow less.
Dorm & meal plan (two semesters) -- $11,582

Yeah, us too.

It's a multi-fauceted issue.
Yes, costs are up, but students these days are ALSO living "higher on the hog" than we did when I was in college in the 80s.
When I was in college practically all my friends had jobs, and I didn't know anyone who didn't work in the summer -- many people worked multiple jobs. Not everyone had a car. College students rarely ate out (we even brought Tupperware to the cafeteria and snuck out cereal and sandwiches because we couldn't afford snacks for the dorms).
From what I see, my kids' college friends seem to have more and spend more. And my kids told me they were in the minority holding down part-time jobs during the school year.
Doesn't mean costs aren't up, but lifestyle is A PART of the issue.

I have taught high school seniors for a long time, and I hear these justifications often:
- I love the Student Union! They have free pool tables!
- Yes, the tuition is expensive, but it includes textbooks, and you can check out Ipads and XBoxes from the front desk!
- I've always imagined myself going to college someplace up north, walking to class in the snow wearing a smart little pea coat and a beret.
- The on campus apartments are so nice! The kitchens have granite counter tops and dishwashers!

Was your daughter living at home while she was attending college? Someone who is paying their own rent and living expenses would have to work full time to afford school.

 

[MrsPete]

Was your daughter living at home while she was attending college? Someone who is paying their own rent and living expenses would have to work full time to afford school.

If you're asking about her time in community college -- yes, she lived at home. She actually earned a scholarship that paid her full tuition in community college (benefit of being an honors student who chose community college), so those were very inexpensive years for her. She chose to work about 20 hours/week during the school year + full time in the summer ... she chose to do that (and save) during her community college years so she'd be able not to work during her university years. She was pleased with her choice, and her employer was happy to have her back for holidays and the summer between her junior-senior year.

Her university was just over two hours from home, so she lived in a dorm her first year and an apartment her second year. Yes, living away from home is -- obviously -- considerably more expensive. With so many moving pieces, students can save in numerous ways, even if they can't cash-flow the entire expense.

Personally, I worked as an RA when I was in college. That gave me a free dorm room + 1/2 my tuition. It was a lifesaver and the biggest single thing that got me through college financially. I knew people who were in National Guard /Reserves for extra cash. I knew one guy who lived in the back of a funeral home (for free) in exchange for answering the late-night phones and occasionally driving the hearse to the hospital to transport a body. I knew a couple girls who worked as live-in nannies in exchange for a free room. Options exist. Maybe not front-door options, maybe not pay-the-whole-thing options, but options that will bring the cost down a little.

 

[Christine]

My daughter’s DPT costs $60,000 a year after merit, does not include housing. She new she wanted to be a physical therapist since freshman year in HS, unfortunately it’s a pricy program.

And I'm kind of surprised, at least in my area, that the PTs don't really pull in a ton of money for salary.

 

[QueenIsabella]

If you're asking about her time in community college -- yes, she lived at home. She actually earned a scholarship that paid her full tuition in community college (benefit of being an honors student who chose community college), so those were very inexpensive years for her. She chose to work about 20 hours/week during the school year + full time in the summer ... she chose to do that (and save) during her community college years so she'd be able not to work during her university years. She was pleased with her choice, and her employer was happy to have her back for holidays and the summer between her junior-senior year.

Her university was just over two hours from home, so she lived in a dorm her first year and an apartment her second year. Yes, living away from home is -- obviously -- considerably more expensive. With so many moving pieces, students can save in numerous ways, even if they can't cash-flow the entire expense.

Personally, I worked as an RA when I was in college. That gave me a free dorm room + 1/2 my tuition. It was a lifesaver and the biggest single thing that got me through college financially. I knew people who were in National Guard /Reserves for extra cash. I knew one guy who lived in the back of a funeral home (for free) in exchange for answering the late-night phones and occasionally driving the hearse to the hospital to transport a body. I knew a couple girls who worked as live-in nannies in exchange for a free room. Options exist. Maybe not front-door options, maybe not pay-the-whole-thing options, but options that will bring the cost down a little.

I know, right? I get so tired of people saying "it can't be done!" when it comes to paying for college. You might have to get creative, like the funeral home guy. You might have to go ROTC, or go part time, or go the community college route. Between my 4 kids, we had: AP/IB courses, dual enrollment, community college, and-gasp!-working.

BTW, DD20 works 20 hours a week at Starbucks (while double-majoring). She earned $20k last year. That would certainly make a good dent in a tuition bill.

 

[mjkacmom]

Source?
I'm sure some kids do this, but "most"?

My youngest finished college in 2020, so I've been involved in college finances recently.
My youngest started at community college. I just looked up the cost of tuition & fees in 2023 (for two semesters) -- $2,432 -- work 9 weeks at minimum wage x 20 hours/week, and you've got that paid; seriously, any student with a healthy body and no dependents can manage that.

I also looked up the cost of attendance in 2023 at the state university both of my kids attended:
Tuition & fees (two semesters) -- $7,970 -- that's harder to do on minimum wage, but a student who works all summer and part time during the school year can knock out a portion of it /allowing him or her to borrow less.
Dorm & meal plan (two semesters) -- $11,582

Yeah, us too.

It's a multi-fauceted issue.
Yes, costs are up, but students these days are ALSO living "higher on the hog" than we did when I was in college in the 80s.
When I was in college practically all my friends had jobs, and I didn't know anyone who didn't work in the summer -- many people worked multiple jobs. Not everyone had a car. College students rarely ate out (we even brought Tupperware to the cafeteria and snuck out cereal and sandwiches because we couldn't afford snacks for the dorms).
From what I see, my kids' college friends seem to have more and spend more. And my kids told me they were in the minority holding down part-time jobs during the school year.
Doesn't mean costs aren't up, but lifestyle is A PART of the issue.

I have taught high school seniors for a long time, and I hear these justifications often:
- I love the Student Union! They have free pool tables!
- Yes, the tuition is expensive, but it includes textbooks, and you can check out Ipads and XBoxes from the front desk!
- I've always imagined myself going to college someplace up north, walking to class in the snow wearing a smart little pea coat and a beret.
- The on campus apartments are so nice! The kitchens have granite counter tops and dishwashers!

That’s great that CC is so cheap where you live, it’s not here. my student in grad school saved money in undergrad with a $17,000 a year merit scholarship, plus graduated a year early with 27 AP credits and 6 DE. All 5 of my kids have been working since 14, all worked in college. All of their friends worked, the vast majority attended in state publics, and all had Val’s/sals in their friend groups. My kids have taken CC classes during summers to save money, plus they are a lot easier, many in 4 year colleges take classes like calculus at CC and take the P.

 

[luv2cheer92]

And I'm kind of surprised, at least in my area, that the PTs don't really pull in a ton of money for salary.

That's a big topic of debate in our profession. I can confirm that the typical price of PT school is in line with what she posted. Mine was around $190K total. My options were essentially that cost and be able to live at home, or pay a little closer to $150K, but then have to pay for housing somewhere.

I did what I could to make undergrad cheap. Got a lot of credits in high school (around 22), chose a cheaper school, was able to pay in state tuition even though I was out of state, etc. But there wasn't any getting around the high cost of grad school, which was needed for my chosen career.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Source?
I'm sure some kids do this, but "most"?

17 years of experience teaching at a University. A very large percentage of college students do this, otherwise we wouldn't have the crippling student loan crisis that we do.