Parenting teenagers is hard and sometimes crazy

[Alicefan]

A lot of people seem to be missing the whole "what works for one kid might not work for another" angle. Three of my 4 kids were relatively easy, with occasional bouts of inexplicable issues. The fourth only learns a lesson if the lesson is painful. Not necessarily physically painful, but it has to REALLY HURT for the lesson to sink in. That same kid is the one of mine for whom electronics wasn't a big deal.

I totally agree. The personality of the kid plays a huge part. It really comes down to how heavily influenced your child might be, whether they are a natural leader or follower etc. I can see where some children would go downhill feeling left out and isolated and I somewhat expected to see some of that when we decided to get rid of the phone. I was gobsmacked when she almost instantly relaxed into being a carefree little girl again. All I can say is that I give God all the glory on that one. It could've been a different story.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't think anyone has said you can NEVER take away electronics, but phones and electronics ARE a key part of social life for most teenagers. You don't put someone in jail for jaywalking, and you shouldn't take away electronics for a minor issue. And yes, the situation described in the OP IS minor. If the situation was repeated time and time again, then it's a different story.

And not just social life - school life as well. DD just finished up a short film for her theatre class, with a group of 7 kids that she mostly doesn't know outside of school. Their group chats on Snapchat were 100% of their coordination and when one of the group lost her phone (physically, not to parental discipline) it was a major headache to try to keep that person in the loop about filming sessions. And every extracurricular DD is involved in has their own Remind (text notification service) group for scheduling, changes, reminders, etc, Two of her classes do too.

I have had to impose limits on DD's tech - another first in my parenting life because the older kids were far less attached to their devices - but I've done it in the form of parental controls and excluding certain apps so as not to cut her off from her friends and school-related communications while reining in the amount of time spent on TikTok or YouTube. That along with our long-running "no phones at the table" rule seems to be enough to keep her from letting the phone take over all of her free time.

 

[JLTraveling]

She has been doing piano for a long time and would not have to be told why she can’t sit that way. There has to be some reason she crossed her legs. Maybe she did want to just stop the lesson we will never know .

And to me, that should have been the end of it. For whatever reason, which could be one that's been floated in this thread or something that none of us will ever possibly hit on, the kid did not want the piano lesson to continue on that day at that time. And it seems a strange hill for the parent to die on. Unless she's a virtuoso who needs to practice every day to keep her scholarship to Julliard or her solo gig at a major concert hall, who cares? I understand that lessons cost money, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to pay for the one she ended early. But beyond that, why was that particular piano lesson, or any piano lesson at all, so absolutely vital for her to complete?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And to me, that should have been the end of it. For whatever reason, which could be one that's been floated in this thread or something that none of us will ever possibly hit on, the kid did not want the piano lesson to continue on that day at that time. And it seems a strange hill for the parent to die on. Unless she's a virtuoso who needs to practice every day to keep her scholarship to Julliard or her solo gig at a major concert hall, who cares? I understand that lessons cost money, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to pay for the one she ended early. But beyond that, why was that particular piano lesson, or any piano lesson at all, so absolutely vital for her to complete?

I just disagree with this. What’s going to happen next time she doesn’t feel like taking the lessons, is she going to twiddle her thumbs or twirl her hair the whole time and think that will get the session ended? Not ok. Thirty minutes is nothing. I agree that they should assess whether she really wants to continue and if not, give it a rest. But at 13 she needs to be clearer with her communications and not disrupt lessons and embarrass her Mom acting like a toddler to get her way. YMMV

 

[PollyannaMom]

And to me, that should have been the end of it. For whatever reason, which could be one that's been floated in this thread or something that none of us will ever possibly hit on, the kid did not want the piano lesson to continue on that day at that time. And it seems a strange hill for the parent to die on. Unless she's a virtuoso who needs to practice every day to keep her scholarship to Julliard or her solo gig at a major concert hall, who cares? I understand that lessons cost money, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to pay for the one she ended early. But beyond that, why was that particular piano lesson, or any piano lesson at all, so absolutely vital for her to complete?

One lesson isn't. But I learned (probably too slowly for my own good) that everything with kids is a precedent. If you let them get away with using bad behavior to get out of something they don't want to do, they will employ that strategy again...because it worked.

Of course it's good to be understanding, and important to take their feelings into account, but rather than accepting bratty behavior as communication, I think it's OK require them to be honest with you about why they don't want to do something - so you can either help them fix whatever the reason is, or (like you said) let them skip it.

 

[amylevan]

And to me, that should have been the end of it. For whatever reason, which could be one that's been floated in this thread or something that none of us will ever possibly hit on, the kid did not want the piano lesson to continue on that day at that time. And it seems a strange hill for the parent to die on. Unless she's a virtuoso who needs to practice every day to keep her scholarship to Julliard or her solo gig at a major concert hall, who cares? I understand that lessons cost money, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to pay for the one she ended early. But beyond that, why was that particular piano lesson, or any piano lesson at all, so absolutely vital for her to complete?

I don’t have musicians, so I have to try and put it in perspective to what I’m used to. We spend a lot of money and on time on soccer, and if someone was refusing to do what the coach asked to the point the coach had to either let me know or cancel a practice or workout, I would be furious. Time and money wasted for, what, essentially a power struggle? If they didn’t want to do the soccer anymore, they can tell me, because god knows I would love to stop Uber-ing to sessions and put the money towards other things.

You can’t just act out to avoid doing something. That’s not the way the world works, and letting a teen get away with sets a precedent.

 

[Lumpy1106]

One lesson isn't. But I learned (probably too slowly for my own good) that everything with kids is a precedent. If you let them get away with using bad behavior to get out of something they don't want to do, they will employ that strategy again...because it worked.

Of course it's good to be understanding, and important to take their feelings into account, but rather than accepting bratty behavior as communication, I think it's OK require them to be honest with you about why they don't want to do something - so you can either help them fix whatever the reason is, or (like you said) let them skip it.

That can be hard for A KID to do. After all, DM and DD have spent a lot of time and money on a passion you maybe don't have anymore. But it's a sunken cost and they know it, and know how important it is TO YOU. If they were adults they'd just adult-up, admit they are done and walk away. She's a KID and hasn't found that voice...yet. That's really common for the 12-15 year old set,

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t have musicians, so I have to try and put it in perspective to what I’m used to. We spend a lot of money and on time on soccer, and if someone was refusing to do what the coach asked to the point the coach had to either let me know or cancel a practice or workout, I would be furious. Time and money wasted for, what, essentially a power struggle? If they didn’t want to do the soccer anymore, they can tell me, because god knows I would love to stop Uber-ing to sessions and put the money towards other things.

You can’t just act out to avoid doing something. That’s not the way the world works, and letting a teen get away with sets a precedent.

It's hard to explain without going over into religious talk but suffice to say we (my sister, who is 3 years older than me, and I) had weekly stuff growing up as kids. At some point my sister found her own thoughts on the subject and begged my mom to stop making her do it. A year later I did the same. Neither of us did it out of power struggle we just found out we had different thoughts. I just assumed it's what I had to do because my mom did it, my sister did it and so I did it too.

I can only imagine how much time would have been saved had my mom just asked my sister on a semi-regular basis if she still wanted to do it. It took my mom taking us seriously and pausing for a moment to think about it. And I don't think I would have been able to stop unless my sister did. It was probably about 6 or 7 years worth for my sister and about 5 or so years worth for me.

You can swap out anything in the story above with something else. I don't know that the OP's daughter is just no longer into piano but I did wonder if that could be a possibility in part. Haven't you as an adult had issues at some point trying to figure out how to tell someone something? And you as an adult have the agency to do so. You're not a kid who hasn't been given life experience or even the ability to do so because you're a kid. As I've been reading the thread I think there are some posters exhibiting empathy because you don't have to agree with the refusal to uncross the legs (as I believe every poster has agreed that was not okay) to imagine how one might feel in that situation, a detail I think is missed.

 

[JLTraveling]

That can be hard for A KID to do. After all, DM and DD have spent a lot of time and money on a passion you maybe don't have anymore. But it's a sunken cost and they know it, and know how important it is TO YOU. If they were adults they'd just adult-up, admit they are done and walk away. She's a KID and hasn't found that voice...yet. That's really common for the 12-15 year old set,

This. Kids aren't just little adults. And I see it as our job to guide them, not punish them for not being fully adult...though even adults fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. How many people stay in broken marriages or careers they hate because they've already put so much into them? Heck, how many people are in those careers in the first place because they're living their parents' dream for them? But regardless, this could have been a teaching moment. End the lesson, tell the kid she needs to pay for it since it was wasted time, and then move on to a discussion about more appropriate ways of demonstrating her desire to stop. In the great scheme of things, the kid CROSSED HER LEGS. She didn't punch the teacher, break the piano, or run out of the room screaming. Sure it's not the appropriate way to handle things. But it's hardly a federal crime.

 

[mjkacmom]

That can be hard for A KID to do. After all, DM and DD have spent a lot of time and money on a passion you maybe don't have anymore. But it's a sunken cost and they know it, and know how important it is TO YOU. If they were adults they'd just adult-up, admit they are done and walk away. She's a KID and hasn't found that voice...yet. That's really common for the 12-15 year old set,

I don’t know about your kids, but all of mine had quite the voices at that age! At 13 you don’t just tell your teacher no without a good reason.

 

[mjkacmom]

This. Kids aren't just little adults. And I see it as our job to guide them, not punish them for not being fully adult...though even adults fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. How many people stay in broken marriages or careers they hate because they've already put so much into them? Heck, how many people are in those careers in the first place because they're living their parents' dream for them? But regardless, this could have been a teaching moment. End the lesson, tell the kid she needs to pay for it since it was wasted time, and then move on to a discussion about more appropriate ways of demonstrating her desire to stop. In the great scheme of things, the kid CROSSED HER LEGS. She didn't punch the teacher, break the piano, or run out of the room screaming. Sure it's not the appropriate way to handle things. But it's hardly a federal crime.

Right, which is why she wasn’t arrested and jailed, just had some consequences. Heck, she can reimburse her mom for her wasted time and pay for the gas as well.

 

[Southernmiss]

And all if this is why I later asked ( in true wonder and concern; not to be snarky) if op had a conversation with the daughter.

 

[little tess]

It may be that she is maturing and experiencing hormonal changes (like having her period) that leave her more comfortable crossing her legs. she may not even be aware of the reason, thus unable to describe it.

 

[DCLMP]

You just gotta love parenting threads......they're just so non-judgemental.

 

[kyton]

You just gotta love parenting threads......they're just so non-judgemental.

Yep especially when people respond negatively who don’t even have kids!

Until you’ve reared a teenage girl, you’ve got nothin’ - says the Mum of a 17yo girl who has almost driven the whole family around the bend plus 2 teenage boys (15 and 13) who are so far a heck of a lot easier……..

 

[DCLMP]

Yep especially when people respond negatively who don’t even have kids!

Until you’ve reared a teenage girl, you’ve got nothin’ - says the Mum of a 17yo girl who has almost driven the whole family around the bend plus 2 teenage boys (15 and 13) who are so far a heck of a lot easier……..

We're all perfect parents until we have a child.

 

[ronandannette]

Yep especially when people respond negatively who don’t even have kids!

Until you’ve reared a teenage girl, you’ve got nothin’ - says the Mum of a 17yo girl who has almost driven the whole family around the bend plus 2 teenage boys (15 and 13) who are so far a heck of a lot easier……..

I'll see your teenage girl and raise you a "complicated" young adult. Super-fun with all the heartache and none of the control. To paraphrase our DIS pal @princesscinderella , "parenting {{insert any age here}} is hard and sometimes crazy"...

We're all perfect parents until we have a child.

I know I was.

 

[DL1WDW2]

#1. My children never liked it when I used something they did as a topic of conversation with my friends… even when it was really cute or funny. I would delete this first post to delete this entire conversation unless you want your daughter to find out about it accidentally.

#2.Obviously nobody in this entire discussion has been “intimidated” in any in approppriate way in their lifetime.
I think as a mother I would be concerned that something has happened . Not necessarily by this teacher but something recently.
Boy do I still not want to sit with my legs open because the boys were always trying to sneak a peek in the classroom for some stupid reason back in the 60’s . Weird, I know but a few other things in my teen years that I did not understand made me never want to be alone in a room with anybody of the opposite sex.

Your children know they need you to protect them and trust them even when they don’t know they need it.
It might be a silent signal that she doesn’t even understand herself.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

I do random inspections of my 12 year olds phone and a few days ago I asked her to hand it over and she refused saying it’s against privacy laws for me to look through her phone and that a 12 year old is way too old to be subjected to privacy violations. My father who’s a retired judge was there when this happened and he informed her there were no such “privacy laws” lol and that in fact her father and I legally own the phone and can do what we want with it.. She was totally certain that there was a law saying I couldn’t check out her phone and wouldn’t stop arguing about it. She is the most stubborn person on earth.

 

[jdb in AZ]

I do random inspections of my 12 year olds phone and a few days ago I asked her to hand it over and she refused saying it’s against privacy laws for me to look through her phone and that a 12 year old is way too old to be subjected to privacy violations. My father who’s a retired judge was there when this happened and he informed her there were no such “privacy laws” lol and that in fact her father and I legally own the phone and can do what we want with it.. She was totally certain that there was a law saying I couldn’t check out her phone and wouldn’t stop arguing about it. She is the most stubborn person on earth.

If she's so sure she's right, ask her to show you the statute containing that privacy law. If she can't quote chapter and verse (because they don't exist) encourage her to Google it or ask the friend (who supposedly told her about the law) to tell her where it's written.

ETA: the retired judge could probably show her the correct law about parents owning the property but it would most likely be written in "legalese" that a 12-yr-old wouldn't understand (or choose not to.)