That seems a pretty harsh response for a renter who has already paid for the points in full. If the DVC member has scanned a copy of the confirmation, it means that member has the confirmation. Surely in five months time, even allowing time for the check to clear, Leigh123 is reasonable in her desire to have the original confirmation. The postal service isn't that slow.
PAID IN FULL 5 Mons ago and no conf..HELP
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That seems a pretty harsh response for a renter who has already paid for the points in full. If the DVC member has scanned a copy of the confirmation, it means that member has the confirmation. Surely in five months time, even allowing time for the check to clear, Leigh123 is reasonable in her desire to have the original confirmation. The postal service isn't that slow.
Leigh123
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Wow I did not expect so much hostility from this thread. My frustration is the fact I entered into and agreement with specific actions being outlined. I did the actions I agreed to and just want the owner to do what they agreed to do. They have not been met, for those of you being so hostile I am sorry I asked for any of your advice...that is what I thought this forum was for.
KDIPIAZZ
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All I can say is that I would be horribly upset as well if I had waited 5 months (so far) with little or no response from a seller.
And yes, I do believe that a letter mailed First Class should arrive in a week's time (if you prefer.....FIVE business days) After all, it's a letter, not a package)
My thanks to LEIGH123 for persuading me not to ever enter into a transaction with a DVC member. I find it appalling that Disney ALLOWS (no debates please.....the sale is allowed at this time) the sale of points, but offers no support for a transaction that goes wrong.
Should there be an issue with a transaction, I certainly wouldn't know where to turn for recourse either. I know I am not feeling the famed Disney magic here on this board.
And yes, I do believe that a letter mailed First Class should arrive in a week's time (if you prefer.....FIVE business days) After all, it's a letter, not a package)
My thanks to LEIGH123 for persuading me not to ever enter into a transaction with a DVC member. I find it appalling that Disney ALLOWS (no debates please.....the sale is allowed at this time) the sale of points, but offers no support for a transaction that goes wrong.
Should there be an issue with a transaction, I certainly wouldn't know where to turn for recourse either. I know I am not feeling the famed Disney magic here on this board.
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It may not make you feel any better, but you do not need the "original" confirmation letter. In none of my many trips to DVC have I ever needed to show my confirmation.
As long as you have the scanned email copy of the letter showing your name and the reservation number, you have all the information you need. As already mentioned, we have never needed the confirmation number or letter at check in. (Even though I am a member, I still worry that somehow my reservation will get messed up - it does happen. It could happen with a CRO/WDWTC reservation, too. But it has never happened to me with DVC and even the mistakes I read about here are few and far between - a lot less mistakes than I read about with CRO/WDWTC over on the Resorts Board).
You've already confirmed with MS that the DVC reservation exisits in your name. You can do that again as your trip aproaches if it will make you feel better. You're set.
Even if you had the original letter, it wouldn't give you any more "security" than you already have. The owner could be a skilled con man (I'm sure he isn't), respond to your every request/contact, and even impress you as the most wonderful person you ever met and you still couldn't be absolutely sure that things would be fine when you arrive.
Try not to worry so much about something that is not likely to happen. Remember, you already have everything you need to check in. If you really can't stand this, you'll have to rethink renting points for your next trip. Saving lots of money isn't worth making yourself sick!
Best wishes -
As long as you have the scanned email copy of the letter showing your name and the reservation number, you have all the information you need. As already mentioned, we have never needed the confirmation number or letter at check in. (Even though I am a member, I still worry that somehow my reservation will get messed up - it does happen. It could happen with a CRO/WDWTC reservation, too. But it has never happened to me with DVC and even the mistakes I read about here are few and far between - a lot less mistakes than I read about with CRO/WDWTC over on the Resorts Board).
You've already confirmed with MS that the DVC reservation exisits in your name. You can do that again as your trip aproaches if it will make you feel better. You're set.
Even if you had the original letter, it wouldn't give you any more "security" than you already have. The owner could be a skilled con man (I'm sure he isn't), respond to your every request/contact, and even impress you as the most wonderful person you ever met and you still couldn't be absolutely sure that things would be fine when you arrive.
Try not to worry so much about something that is not likely to happen. Remember, you already have everything you need to check in. If you really can't stand this, you'll have to rethink renting points for your next trip. Saving lots of money isn't worth making yourself sick!
Best wishes -
I don't think it is unreasonable for you to want the original confirmation number but you do have it to check periodically with member services to see it is still valid. This paper is only good for checking in...making it easier for them to find you in the system. It will have no use if the DVC member cancels the reservation on you before you leave. Disney will not honor it as you are not the member. Most of us try to get a contract and go thru the motions of protecting our selves but in reality if the member has evil intent you are sadly left with little recourse. Disney will not get involved and hiring a lawyer will only cost you more. I have made reservations at my home resort in exchange for a member making one for me at theirs..it has always gone smoothly but their have been several months when I work out of the country and have limited time to email. I usually tell the renter this. I am presently renting points where I paid 50% down and will pay balance at 60 days window. If I fail to send the money, the member keeps my deposit and still can reuse their points. If I pay in full and then the member cancels on me then I'm stuck even with a signed letter of intent from her because it costs more money to enforce it across state lines. You are renting because you are getting a very good deal, the downside is the risk. My guess is you are going to be fine but if you get a lawyer involved the DVC member may cancel your reservation and refund your money if their honest. I would , first I would have sent the original but I personally would not involve myself with lawyers...I would refund your money immediately . So if you are convinced you want out of the reservation and its within the time the member won't lose the flexibility of their points..ask them to refund without involving your lawyer. Most of us would do it. Once a lawyer is involved all bwets are off. They might be mad enough to refuse. The best advise you got on this board is to gently prod the DVC member and keep calling once a month to member services to make sure you are still on the reservation. you could do this more often near the end.
rocketriter
DIS Veteran
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Your lawyer will probably tell you that there's nothing much to do until and unless your renter cancels your reservation without your permission. Until then you have no "damages" to declare, just some justifiably wracked nerves.
I suspect that this will all work out all right. Your renter sounds to me like a jerk rather than a crook (or someone with problems you don't know about, like a terminal illness in the family). My suggestion (and I'm not a lawyer, so take it with a bucket of salt) is to go ahead and plan your trip. If your renter doesn't pull a fast one, you'll have lovely accomodations at a very reasonable price. If your renter does try to pull something, then you can hit him over the head with your lawyer.
I suspect that this will all work out all right. Your renter sounds to me like a jerk rather than a crook (or someone with problems you don't know about, like a terminal illness in the family). My suggestion (and I'm not a lawyer, so take it with a bucket of salt) is to go ahead and plan your trip. If your renter doesn't pull a fast one, you'll have lovely accomodations at a very reasonable price. If your renter does try to pull something, then you can hit him over the head with your lawyer.
To answer another question, Disney has no responsibility to enforce agreements set up with regards to points as it is not technically a valid use of points and not condoned by Disney.
The rent board was originally set up to be a service between DVC members to gain value from points unable to be used by the member themselves for all sorts of reasons. It has evolved into a great thing allowing us to exchange as well as rent and sell. Non members having found the board thru word of mouth on the parent site or other Disney related sites. It is a great savings over CRO in most instances. So far I have had wonderful luck mostly renting or exchanging points with other members. I wouldn't personally rent to a non member because that person has no understanding of how DVC works and it leaves me open to many conflicts and the hazzle of dealing with problems resulting from their lack of understanding. I have no desire to keep changing reservations over and over.
If someone rents to a non member they have that right, to have someone paint all DVC members as being somehow not understanding is missing the point. It's a service with a risk, not all people are honest...most are delightful and that's been my experience. But you won;t find a guarantee here ..you get that with CRO and more Dollars...sorry the truth
The rent board was originally set up to be a service between DVC members to gain value from points unable to be used by the member themselves for all sorts of reasons. It has evolved into a great thing allowing us to exchange as well as rent and sell. Non members having found the board thru word of mouth on the parent site or other Disney related sites. It is a great savings over CRO in most instances. So far I have had wonderful luck mostly renting or exchanging points with other members. I wouldn't personally rent to a non member because that person has no understanding of how DVC works and it leaves me open to many conflicts and the hazzle of dealing with problems resulting from their lack of understanding. I have no desire to keep changing reservations over and over.
If someone rents to a non member they have that right, to have someone paint all DVC members as being somehow not understanding is missing the point. It's a service with a risk, not all people are honest...most are delightful and that's been my experience. But you won;t find a guarantee here ..you get that with CRO and more Dollars...sorry the truth
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I don't think the OP is being unreasonable in wanting a hard copy of the confirmation. It was agreed to in the original contract (I assume). If the owner scanned it and emailed it to her, he/she obviously has received it from Disney. If it were me renting the points, I would probably make a couple copies of the confirmation and send it to the renter with a return receipt.
The good part is, the OP has checked with MS and confirmed the ressie, and she does NOT need the original, or even a copy, of the confirmation to check-in.
Leigh, I would call MS about 20 days prior to your arrival date and re-confirm. That should put your mind at ease, since to cancel a ressie within that period would carry penalties (holding account) for the DVC owner. And I hope you have a wonderful trip.
To the poster that thinks Disney should either NOT allow the rental of points, or should be involved in the process, I don't think Disney could legally prevent the private rental of points. --Timeshare laws in Florida are very specific as to owners rights. As far as Disney becoming involved in a transaction, it would raise the dues of all members, including those that NEVER rent points. A "staff lawyer" to oversee these things would come out of everyones dues and Disney has a legal fiduciary responsibility to manage our dues wisely. If Disney even so much as posted a sample contract they would imply that they have some responsibility for the transaction.
--Edited to correct typo as pointed out by Carol below
--
The good part is, the OP has checked with MS and confirmed the ressie, and she does NOT need the original, or even a copy, of the confirmation to check-in.
Leigh, I would call MS about 20 days prior to your arrival date and re-confirm. That should put your mind at ease, since to cancel a ressie within that period would carry penalties (holding account) for the DVC owner. And I hope you have a wonderful trip.
To the poster that thinks Disney should either NOT allow the rental of points, or should be involved in the process, I don't think Disney could legally prevent the private rental of points. --Timeshare laws in Florida are very specific as to owners rights. As far as Disney becoming involved in a transaction, it would raise the dues of all members, including those that NEVER rent points. A "staff lawyer" to oversee these things would come out of everyones dues and Disney has a legal fiduciary responsibility to manage our dues wisely. If Disney even so much as posted a sample contract they would imply that they have some responsibility for the transaction.
--Edited to correct typo as pointed out by Carol below
--
Disney is very clear that they do not encourage members to get into renting their points for cash to strangers. After all, it is a conflict with their own resort business at WDW. However, if members are able to share their points with friends and family (which many of us certainly want to be able to do), they are also able to set up private transactions where they receive compensation for those trips. Disney and DVC have absolutely no involvement in those transactions or problem resolution.
I'm certainly not attacking anyone for being leery about entering into such a transaction. I'd be very hesitant to do it myself. But, it's really no different than renting someone's vacation home via the Internet. There's no guarantee the key will work once you get there and the only recourse is legal action. You aren't dealing with a hotel operator (like Disney or Marriott or Starwood), you are transacting a private deal.
Leigh123 may have gone into the transaction too quickly and others may want to take away some thoughts from this deal. For one, don't make the final payment until you are satisfied with how the transaction has gone. I'm sure the owner would have a lot more motivation to copy the confirmation and get it in the mail if receiving several hundred dollars would be the payoff. I understand Leigh being upset about having to pursue the person for this. However, I do think the reservation is secure. It's been confirmed by e-mail and by a phone call to MS.
This scenario also gives owners who are considering renting an idea of how it does take time and involve risk. In the owner's mind, I'm sure this rental is a done deal and they really don't have a need for further contact (beyond slapping a stamp on an envelope and putting it in the mail). Won't they be surprised if they suddenly find themselves in receipt of a letter from a lawyer threatening legal action and looking to cancel the reservation? They'll probably return the money, cancel the reservation and look for a way to use these points before they expire. A deal they thought was set back in December is now unraveling 5 months later.
Renting points is a huge savings over renting through Disney. It also comes with restrictions and having to put your faith in people. It can be tough and getting a "feel" for who you are dealing with before committing (on both sides) is a good idea.
Just a side note about confirmations. In this case, with so much time between the reservation and the trip, a confirmation letter should be no problem. However, if you book last minute it may be impossible to provide a confirmation letter. DVC can take up to two weeks to send out the letter and they do not provide fax or overnight delivery of the letters. Having the confirmation number and a picture ID is all that is necessary in those circumstances.
I'm certainly not attacking anyone for being leery about entering into such a transaction. I'd be very hesitant to do it myself. But, it's really no different than renting someone's vacation home via the Internet. There's no guarantee the key will work once you get there and the only recourse is legal action. You aren't dealing with a hotel operator (like Disney or Marriott or Starwood), you are transacting a private deal.
Leigh123 may have gone into the transaction too quickly and others may want to take away some thoughts from this deal. For one, don't make the final payment until you are satisfied with how the transaction has gone. I'm sure the owner would have a lot more motivation to copy the confirmation and get it in the mail if receiving several hundred dollars would be the payoff. I understand Leigh being upset about having to pursue the person for this. However, I do think the reservation is secure. It's been confirmed by e-mail and by a phone call to MS.
This scenario also gives owners who are considering renting an idea of how it does take time and involve risk. In the owner's mind, I'm sure this rental is a done deal and they really don't have a need for further contact (beyond slapping a stamp on an envelope and putting it in the mail). Won't they be surprised if they suddenly find themselves in receipt of a letter from a lawyer threatening legal action and looking to cancel the reservation? They'll probably return the money, cancel the reservation and look for a way to use these points before they expire. A deal they thought was set back in December is now unraveling 5 months later.
Renting points is a huge savings over renting through Disney. It also comes with restrictions and having to put your faith in people. It can be tough and getting a "feel" for who you are dealing with before committing (on both sides) is a good idea.
Just a side note about confirmations. In this case, with so much time between the reservation and the trip, a confirmation letter should be no problem. However, if you book last minute it may be impossible to provide a confirmation letter. DVC can take up to two weeks to send out the letter and they do not provide fax or overnight delivery of the letters. Having the confirmation number and a picture ID is all that is necessary in those circumstances.
DSNY FN
<font color=darkcoral>DVC is the place for me<br><
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We just rented to a couple that were going down for the triathalon. They asked for a reservation 3 weeks ago for this weekend for the race we recieved confirmation from Disney just 2 days ago it was waitlisted. We never had a chance to send the confirmation letter to the people as it would not have arrived until after they had left to go. I just called DVC and made sure they had the correct names and stuff and gave the folks the res# off the confirmation letter we recieved. They also got a prefered garden and pool view studio at BWV for the same amount of points as it was for a standard view room.
Muushka
<font color=red>I usually feel like I just stepped
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This is not a good example of renting out points in my opinion. I have rented out points a few times (actually 2 times) and found that the fun of renting the points was getting to know another person who has similar interests. We emailed each other frequently and keet up communication. I think my renters knew that there was actually a person at the end of the reservation I made them. In return, I really appreciated the trust that the renters showed to me. They did not get upset if their confirmation letter arrived a day late (no reference to OP, just an example). I think it is a mutual thing, that each must give.
rocketriter
DIS Veteran
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Muushka, you understand the concept of Customer Service. It really makes a difference in any business.
Laurabearz
I cant load my bobbin!
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(((((((((((Leigh123)))))))))) I feel your pain.
There is risk.... but I would hang on a bit longer.....
Please keep us posted.
There is risk.... but I would hang on a bit longer.....
Please keep us posted.
I would be disheartened too, if I was not receiving responses from the person I rented points from. Even with Ebay sales, you can tell alot about a seller based on their email responses. Not fool proof, but a warm-fuzzy that calms your nerves.
Was the renter more responsive before you sent the money? Or were they always so stingy with the correspondence?.
It takes trust and a leap of faith for all involved to rent points.
Also the renter risks losing all the points if they cancel the day of the ressie so if you did confirm your ressie on the day of departure the only way the member could cancel on the day of checkin would be to forfeit the points.
Was the renter more responsive before you sent the money? Or were they always so stingy with the correspondence?.
It takes trust and a leap of faith for all involved to rent points.
Also the renter risks losing all the points if they cancel the day of the ressie so if you did confirm your ressie on the day of departure the only way the member could cancel on the day of checkin would be to forfeit the points.
ClarabelleCow
Where did my tag go? Oh fairy, can you help me?
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I rented the first time before we bought, I e-mailed, the rentee, set everything up, they telephoned and were able to make the confirmation, she gave me the confirmation number, I sent the money, and that was that. No problems, Honestly, I wouldn't really worry about the actuall confirmation letter, as long as you have the number and you verified it. Maybe the owner of the points lost it, is busy, etc., no excuse for crapy customer service. But I don't see a reason to get a lawyer involved. If the room is reserved, then no problem. Now if it gets cancelled, then I would get the lawyer involved.
Actually all you need is the reservation number and photo id of an adult person listed on the reservation at time of check-in (as per member services). The copy of the confirmation serves as your confirmation that the reservation was transferred to your name.
zurgswife
WDW is my Shangrala...and I'm going...life is bett
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I had an experience with rentling points from another DVC memeber and this person just was horrible at returning my calls or emails...Had all kinds of excuses...I finally got a copy of the confirmation....
That being said weather the person emails you a copy of the confirmation or sends you the actual one...they can still cancel. You need to get past the trust issue, which is difficult when you feel things are not on the up and up. I have found in the few times I have rented points people just aren't as diligent to following contracts as I would have benn....
Hold on it will be ok...
I do agree with Dean...if they are just lazy, having an attorney contact them might irrate them to the point that they do cancel the reservation...
Good Luck...
That being said weather the person emails you a copy of the confirmation or sends you the actual one...they can still cancel. You need to get past the trust issue, which is difficult when you feel things are not on the up and up. I have found in the few times I have rented points people just aren't as diligent to following contracts as I would have benn....
Hold on it will be ok...
I do agree with Dean...if they are just lazy, having an attorney contact them might irrate them to the point that they do cancel the reservation...
Good Luck...
Did you rent the points from someone here on the dis-board?
please give us more information of the transaction, like who you rented from (maybe we know this member and we can reassure you) what were the agreements in the contract?
Maybe the member felt sending you a copy of the conf. letter was just as good as the original, maybe something happen to the member , on vacation, moving, hospital, computer crash, did you get a phone # to call and to make all arrangements? how did you receive the contract by mail, is there a return address label on the envelope? if you rented from a mem,ber on the dis , you can easy check out their id name and when they were on the dis board last.
i can say being on this dis board there only has been one person that people had trouble with, but he no longer owns dvc, dvc repo his points. other then that person i would say you can trust 99.99% of the dvc members on the dis board.
please give us more info so we can help you. and just to reassure the dvc members also has to trust who he rents to, he is responsible if the room is trash, any out standing charges, people cancel at the last min. and he loses all his points.
We are here to help you, let us help you, so you feel better and make your vacation magical......
please give us more information of the transaction, like who you rented from (maybe we know this member and we can reassure you) what were the agreements in the contract?
Maybe the member felt sending you a copy of the conf. letter was just as good as the original, maybe something happen to the member , on vacation, moving, hospital, computer crash, did you get a phone # to call and to make all arrangements? how did you receive the contract by mail, is there a return address label on the envelope? if you rented from a mem,ber on the dis , you can easy check out their id name and when they were on the dis board last.
i can say being on this dis board there only has been one person that people had trouble with, but he no longer owns dvc, dvc repo his points. other then that person i would say you can trust 99.99% of the dvc members on the dis board.
please give us more info so we can help you. and just to reassure the dvc members also has to trust who he rents to, he is responsible if the room is trash, any out standing charges, people cancel at the last min. and he loses all his points.
We are here to help you, let us help you, so you feel better and make your vacation magical......
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