Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[Cinderumbrella]

Yes! People keep talking about how wonderful it used to be. That's great that they got to experience that, but how long has it been? 5 years? 10 years? The # of people visiting wdw every year has risen seemingly exponentially in the last few years. I don't like that Disney cut evening emh at DHS. We were able to experience that in 2015 and 2016. That's the one CUT I've seen since our first trip in 2015. Everything else people are talking about Disney cutting must have happened before Sept 2015, because I've never seen it. Like pm emh until 2 or 3 AM on a regular basis? Never saw that myself. Regular MK closings at midnight? Never saw that either. My point is, based on the limited experience I have with wdw, these after hours events are a welcome addition! They're the only way we've been able to experience this unicorn people keep telling me was a regular occurrence sometime in the past, that being empty parks and walk-on rides.

The bigger number of people is exactly why the early closes are asinine

 

[Iowamomof4]

The bigger number of people is exactly why the early closes are asinine

I agree completely.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I decoded it for you.

"Right now, there are only a very few rides at each of the parks that are hard-to-get FastPassPlus: Flight of Passage at Disney's Animal Kingdom, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and Peter Pan's Flight at Magic Kingdom, Slinky Dog Dash at Hollywood Studios, and perhaps both Soarin' and Test Track at Epcot. When Star Wars Galaxy's Edge opens, that will be another 1 or 2 very hard-to-get FastPassPlus. Do these few rides make it somehow inevitable that there'll be paid FastPassPlus in the future? Seriously? Because surely no one is going to pay for FastPassPlus for Country Bears or even Spaceship Earth. Is Walt Disney World going to create lines and crowds at attractions in order to force people to buy FastPassPlus for them? They kinda did with FastPassPlus--create lines, I mean. Spaceship Earth had forever been a walk-on. Only with FastPassPlus did it become a necessity to get a FastPassPlus for it. So maybe they have this strategy in mind. I dunno. But I personally won't be paying for a FastPassPlus to see Figment or be tortured by the never-ending song in It's A Small World, for example."

Thank you! I'm usually good with the abbreviations, but this one had myhead spinning!

 

[umichigan10]

Yes! People keep talking about how wonderful it used to be. That's great that they got to experience that, but how long has it been? 5 years? 10 years? The # of people visiting wdw every year has risen seemingly exponentially in the last few years. I don't like that Disney cut evening emh at DHS. We were able to experience that in 2015 and 2016. That's the one CUT I've seen since our first trip in 2015. Everything else people are talking about Disney cutting must have happened before Sept 2015, because I've never seen it. Like pm emh until 2 or 3 AM on a regular basis? Never saw that myself. Regular MK closings at midnight? Never saw that either. My point is, based on the limited experience I have with wdw, these after hours events are a welcome addition! They're the only way we've been able to experience this unicorn people keep telling me was a regular occurrence sometime in the past, that being empty parks and walk-on rides.

I’m figuring the number of people visiting has risen because the economies been getting in better shape throughout the decade. But as has been pointed out a ton here (speaking of beating the dead horse) they’re really gonna feel the crunch when the economy tanks again

 

[KenHutch]

Wow it took awhile to get thru all 91 pages. All I can say is because of the girls we stay deluxe. Take away the few perks I get we will go off site. We stay 10-12 days and I spend a LOT of money. My Harry Potter freak has already been working me to cut 3 days from Disney and go stay at a deluxe Universal resort and of course the park. We really do not know what they are planning but Disney being Disney it will be a stupid decision. I would point out to the bean counters (who are probably pushing this) that there will be another recession. Mess with the people who carry the place thru these economic downturns and you they will find themselves in a mess. And as many posters have said if you know the system well you can get by with few to no fast passes at all.

 

[Ego831]

I think we can all agree we wish we could go back to the "old days" (if they ever really existed) - but the reality is that I think many are looking at Disney crowds from only the side of a visitor or customer - there is the Disney investment side which I would like to present/discuss.

Look at the tremendous investment (Read: New rides, lands, shows) that Disney has made over the last 2, 5, 10 years - that is the real driver to the crowds – but also the real driver to enjoying and getting more out of a Disney vacation.

If Disney stopped developing new lands and adding new rides and new technologies (Magic bands) there would probably be less demand because people would say: "Nothing has changed....why go back every year?". Maybe we would go every other year or once every five years or people would delay going until when their kids got older and they could really enjoy it more...etc.

But we can't have it both ways - we can't say I want more rides, another land, more shows, hours, etc. and then be surprised when (1) Disney wants to recoup its investments and (2) More people want to go more often because there is something new like Toy Story Land, Pandora and now SWGE to see.

It is a business and they will raise prices - and the people that think it is "worth it" will pay for it (because they can or save or do without something else). I don't understand why folks are surprised when Disney raises prices for a product that is in demand and for which people are willing to pay?

The same goes for eliminating things that used to be free - if folks will pay for it then it doesn’t make business sense to give it away for free. That money can then be reinvested into new rides and experiences….

We live in New York and we used to go to see Broadway shows every couple of months, but the prices have easily doubled, if not tripled and we no longer go that often - it is not "worth it" for us. But for the people that value it – they go and pay.

Disney is (and in my opinion understandably so) the same way - they are not there to "let" as many people go - they are a business getting as best a return on their investment as possible which again – they simply don’t pocket – they reinvest into new development to keep the machine running.

I believe they have really added a lot to the vacation experience (due to pressure from Universal I am sure - another economic driver: Competition) and are maximizing their investment. It is unfortunate (I am sure we all wish EVERYONE could go ALL THE TIME and wait on 5 MINUTE RIDE lines) but we cant all drive fancy cars, live in mega mansions and take trips around the world - we should not act like a child by thinking Disney “owe us” cheaper prices. Even though I WISH it was cheaper!

Disney has also tried to make it more "affordable" by offering value and moderate resorts so that more people could go. I am sure it is not altruistic - but if they were this mean organization they wouldn’t do that - I think it is just profitable to bring as many people to the park as possible even if their ROI at a value or moderate resort is less than at the more expensive resorts (I assume).

This will continue: Guardians of the Galaxy, Mary Poppins Dark Ride, Ratatoille, Illuminations Replacement or new Brazil, India, Spain etc pavilion – these are all investments – spread out of time – to ensure there is something new and fresh to keep previous people coming back year after year and encourage NEW people into discovering Disney – who will undoubtedly continue to increase the crowds.

I am actually HAPPY (kind of) that I might have the option to pay more for a Fast Pass to ensure I don’t spend all my time on line – will this impact the frequency that I can go – absolutely! But it will become more about the quality of my vacation as apposed to the quantity. I am sure Disney has people that crunch those types of decisions and numbers too, to strike the optimal balance for their bottom line – which again, I think will lead to more rides, lands, etc.

Lastly if there is a recession or certain threshold is passed where less people go - you will see more sales, discounts, special codes, etc....it is easy enough for them to turn the financial knobs to adjust the crowds back up.

It is a business and I make adult decisions on how I want (and can) spend my money. I think Disney continues to add value and when we can go, we experience a family vacation that is worth every dollar in my opinion....

Respectfully....

(Sorry for the long post….)

 

[mamaofsix]

I’m figuring the number of people visiting has risen because the economies been getting in better shape throughout the decade. But as has been pointed out a ton here (speaking of beating the dead horse) they’re really gonna feel the crunch when the economy tanks again

Something that isn't really discussed much on these boards when it comes to the great mystery behind increasing crowds is quite simple, in my opinion: Population Growth. There are 2 billion more people on this planet than there were when my parents first took our family to Disney in the 90s. Statistically, there are a whole lot more people with available funds to travel - simply because there are a whole lot more people, period.

The U.S. economy tanking sure could put a damper on the crowds, but maybe not to the extent that it would have a few decades ago when earth's population was 1/3 less. Often times when the U.S. economy plummets, the dollar in other nations soar - leading to increased attendance at WDW from International visitors. Lately, I believe International visitors have been making up more and more of the WDW crowds. So, the affect of a U.S. recession might be limited in making a dent on those crowds.

Just something to think about...

 

[cmwade77]

Look at the tremendous investment (Read: New rides, lands, shows) that Disney has made over the last 2, 5, 10 years - that is the real driver to the crowds – but also the real driver to enjoying and getting more out of a Disney vacation.

What investments are those? A couple of rides here and there that have had budget cuts to the point where they are less than what they could be, while the competition is running circles around Disney right now?

The same goes for eliminating things that used to be free - if folks will pay for it then it doesn’t make business sense to give it away for free. That money can then be reinvested into new rides and experiences….

Actually it does make sense to continue giving them for free, because the economy will tank at some point, it is the nature of the economy, tourism will drop significantly and they will need to go back to relying on the locals, even at Disney World to pull them through.

If they continue to nickel and dime their guests, especially passholders and other locals, they won't be so forgiving when the economy tanks and will have already moved over to Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, etc. Yes, they may charge some extras that Disney doesn't, but many of them start at 1/4 of the price of Disney.

Disney is no longer the only player in the heavily themed and immersive theme park game and the competition has really been picking up their slack and will continue to do so.

 

[cmwade77]

The U.S. economy tanking sure could put a damper on the crowds, but maybe not to the extent that it would have a few decades ago when earth's population was 1/3 less. Often times when the U.S. economy plummets, the dollar in other nations soar - leading to increased attendance at WDW from International visitors. Lately, I believe International visitors have been making up more and more of the WDW crowds. So, the affect of a U.S. recession might be limited in making a dent on those crowds.

But the next downturn isn't going to be just the U.S. economy, but rather the world economy, particularly Europe that will also be hit and hit hard, mostly because of the EU, but there are many other factors at play there too.

Additionally, China's economy can't keep where it is either, especially as more and more companies start pulling out of China for manufacturing and they should indeed do so.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I think the reason people visit Disney is so complex. It isn’t just because they have awesome rides, or some other tangible thing drawing people in.

For a lot of repeat guests it’s years and years of built up good will, it’s being raised in “Disney families”, it’s a burning desire to raise their kids with not only Disney trips, but Disney movies, Disney products, etc. Disney is intertwined in so many peoples lives.

Disney no doubt knows this, and that is what I think is at stake when you started pissing off enough of those people. The long term game. Disney lovers coming for generations. Don’t think we’re there yet, but we could be. That is so much bigger than short term profits to supposedly fund innovation in the parks, IMO.

 

[LSUmiss]

How late? Because we went every June from 2009-2013 and we could ride BRMRR, as an example, 4 or 5 times in a row. Peter Pan for less than 5 minutes (especially after 1am).

We rode BTMRR during EMH in those date ranges one night & didbt even have to get off & reboard!

 

[umichigan10]

I think the reason people visit Disney is so complex. It isn’t just because they have awesome rides, or some other tangible thing drawing people in.

For a lot of repeat guests it’s years and years of built up good will, it’s being raised in “Disney families”, it’s a burning desire to raise their kids with not only Disney trips, but Disney movies, Disney products, etc. Disney is intertwined in so many peoples lives.

Disney no doubt knows this, and that is what I think is at stake when you started pissing off enough of those people. The long term game. Disney lovers coming for generations. Don’t think we’re there yet, but we could be. That is so much bigger than short term profits to supposedly fund innovation in the parks, IMO.

It’s such an issue with many businesses today, not just Disney. This obsession with short term profit vs long term brand integrity is toxic and hurts the company and the consumer

 

[LSUmiss]

We had a modest 5 night trip last year and people were gobsmacked we went...all I got from friends was "it's so expensive".

I’m not sure where these ppl vacation that is so much cheaper. But, I understand if something like they’re ppl who can’t afford to vacation at all. Value is one thing if you don’t like what you get for the $. But wdw is no more (and often less) expensive than other destinations.

 

[LSUmiss]

The bigger number of people is exactly why the early closes are asinine

But the pp is example of why WDW is not dumb. There is a very low percentage of ppl who will feel something has been taken from them with paid FPs. The rest will be ok with it or won’t recall it ever being different etc. And paid FPs will just be part of the experience & those who don’t like it will have a choice to make. It’s that simple.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Comparing apples to apples I still don’t think Disney is outrageously priced, just kind of. It’s just that most other vacations don’t involve going to expensive entertainment venues on the daily. Try to plan a trip where you and your family go to an NHL game every day, a concert every day, where you go to even a lower quality amusement park daily, where you eat out at somewhat good quality restaurants for every meal, it adds up fast. I think it’s still in the same ballpark as that kind of stuff, especially if you aren’t staying at $300+ a night resorts.

I don’t think comparing it to vacations where you spend time relaxing at a resort, or sightseeing is entirely accurate. Maybe I’m just jaded because most entertainment is so expensive when you’ve got a family.

Disney is not a cheap vacation, but it’s not alone. You know?

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I’m not sure where these ppl vacation that is so much cheaper. But, I understand if something like they’re ppl who can’t afford to vacation at all. Value is one thing if you don’t like what you get for the $. But wdw is no more (and often less) expensive than other destinations.

We just got back from a week vacation to Albuquerque. It was a third of the cost of our Disney trips. We ate at fun restaurants, we climbed mesas, and went to museums. The kids saw a real place and enjoyed learning about the history and wildlife in the western US. They were entertained the whole time.

We don't have to do Disney. We have all enjoyed going there but if our finances changed as we weren't able to go tomorrow or decided the value wasnt there, the options for other places to vacation is literally unlimited. And there are a lot of options (especially if you are willing to go somewhere that isn't a typical tourist destination) are quite a bit less expensive.

 

[LSUmiss]

What investments are those? A couple of rides here and there that have had budget cuts to the point where they are less than what they could be, while the competition is running circles around Disney right now?


Actually it does make sense to continue giving them for free, because the economy will tank at some point, it is the nature of the economy, tourism will drop significantly and they will need to go back to relying on the locals, even at Disney World to pull them through.

If they continue to nickel and dime their guests, especially passholders and other locals, they won't be so forgiving when the economy tanks and will have already moved over to Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, etc. Yes, they may charge some extras that Disney doesn't, but many of them start at 1/4 of the price of Disney.

Disney is no longer the only player in the heavily themed and immersive theme park game and the competition has really been picking up their slack and will continue to do so.

I bet they will be forgiving when wdw offers deep discounts & incentives. It’s a calculated risk.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I bet they will be forgiving when wdw offers deep discounts & incentives. It’s a calculated risk.

I agree. There is probably a subset of people who will not ever go back or not ever have it be a yearly vacation again. But there will also be a subset who will be happy to be able to afford it again.

 

[The Pho]

where you go to even a lower quality amusement park daily

I find those to be leagues cheaper. Six Flags have annual passes for less than a day ticket (I just paid $55 for mine this year, and it was $109 to include meals for the year as well). Cedar Point was $110 for admission and line skipping for the day (or $40 for just the ticket if staying at their hotel). And for the most part finding hotels near those that are “deluxe level” can be difficult. And souvenirs and food I’ve found to be much cheaper. A few of the local parks around here even have tickets for $20.

You can bring the cost of Disney down by managing things in some ways, but other parks beyond Universal are usually in a very different price range in my experience. But they also tend to deliver an inferior product as far as theming and immersion goes, and in many cases, ride and attraction quality. We pay a premium over most parks for the better overall product.

 

[SaharanTea]

You may not, but plenty of people will. Look at how the paid Extra Magic Hours have been embraced by practically all. It's now a "must do" if you're going to do Disney right. For a family of 4, people are more than willing to spend $516 on something that used to be a free perk.

I only made a statement about my "normal-sized" family to prove that it's not just large families that would balk at the cost. Extract from that what you will, but it wasn't meant to be a stand-in for everyone.

I understand that some percentage of families will buy things I wouldn't.

Your assertion that "practically everyone" had embraced the paid extra hour events is false by definition. The events are meant to provide hours with purposefully low crowds. That means that the vast majority of visitors in a week can't possibly even do the event, even at a sell-out.

I don't consider these to be "must-do" events since I've never done one and consider them above my personal cost to benefit ratio. I know I'm not alone in that based on just comments here. I also know others find them worthwhile.