Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[cmwade77]

I don't think that I am coming across correctly. I am not saying that Disney needs to be "fair" to everyone. If that was the case, rooms would be cheap and it would cost almost nothing to get into the park.

The fact though is that obtaining prime fast passes for the first few days of a trip is inherently more difficult (not impossible), for everyone, than at the end of the trip. It is just a function of being able to make them for an entire reservation all at once. One way to ease that somewhat would be to only allow the making of FPs to a day at a time. But as has been pointed out above, that has a big negative impact on those from the west coast who would have to get up extremely early each day, and that isn't good either.

It would be nice if they could figure out a way to give benefits to those staying onsite without having a negative impact on others.

As far as the Ferrari goes, living in Wisconsin, I would have the three days between the end of winter and the beginning of the next winter to drive it. Oh well.

Here is an easy way they could do this:
Make all FPs available same day only and only after entering a park. You cannot select a return time though, it would work just like Disneyland's where it tells you what the current return window is for each attraction and you pick accordingly.

This works extremely well at Disneyland and would work even better at Disney World.

As for on-site benefits, each resort guest of an on-site hotel would get one anytime FP per day of their stay. The anytime FP would only be valid on that day, i.e. you couldn't have a nonnpark day and use two on another day. A single anytime FP per resort guest would have a minimal impact so long as it can be used for most attractions. It could even be stated it cant be used for FOP, etc.

This gives on-site guests a benefit (and there could be promos that adds an additional one or perhaps concierge guests get two per day, you get the idea) while having a very minimal impact on non resort guests.

 

[cmwade77]

That’s interesting because some of my complaints about wait time are with the rides that have been negatively impacted (HM, PoC, JC, for example) maybe Disney should use their own analysis and on rides where it has increased wait times do away with it. Just a thought based on that analysis alone.

HM, POC, JC and any other "people eater" rides, i.e. continuous loading/boat rides with extremely high capacity should never have been given FP in the first place, Disneyland proved this ages ago with POC when FP was first introduced. Same goes for HM at Disneyland, although they have brought FP back there with minimal impact this time around, so my guess is they are doing something different behind the scenes on that one.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Here is an easy way they could do this:
Make all FPs available same day only and only after entering a park. You cannot select a return time though, it would work just like Disneyland's where it tells you what the current return window is for each attraction and you pick accordingly.

This works extremely well at Disneyland and would work even better at Disney World.

As for on-site benefits, each resort guest of an on-site hotel would get one anytime FP per day of their stay. The anytime FP would only be valid on that day, i.e. you couldn't have a nonnpark day and use two on another day. A single anytime FP per resort guest would have a minimal impact so long as it can be used for most attractions. It could even be stated it cant be used for FOP, etc.

This gives on-site guests a benefit (and there could be promos that adds an additional one or perhaps concierge guests get two per day, you get the idea) while having a very minimal impact on non resort guests.

So you want to go back to the paper FP method they dumped 5 years ago (just making it digital?)
I’m presuming they went to prescheduling because of the large number of complaints they received from people saying they were sick of headliner FP running out the first hour of the day. Your suggestion takes us right back to that (minus the running of the bulls).

DL crowds are VERY different from WDW crowds simply because of how many local AP holders are there each day vs preplanned family vacation.

 

[Sarah1024]

Here is an easy way they could do this:
Make all FPs available same day only and only after entering a park. You cannot select a return time though, it would work just like Disneyland's where it tells you what the current return window is for each attraction and you pick accordingly.

This works extremely well at Disneyland and would work even better at Disney World.

As for on-site benefits, each resort guest of an on-site hotel would get one anytime FP per day of their stay. The anytime FP would only be valid on that day, i.e. you couldn't have a nonnpark day and use two on another day. A single anytime FP per resort guest would have a minimal impact so long as it can be used for most attractions. It could even be stated it cant be used for FOP, etc.

This gives on-site guests a benefit (and there could be promos that adds an additional one or perhaps concierge guests get two per day, you get the idea) while having a very minimal impact on non resort guests.

What you are describing is the MaxPass - which is never going to be implemented at WDW. The crowds are completely different. And even then, you get an advantage if you're an early riser. Disney is also not going to give out 10's of thousands of anytime FP's. It would be impossible for them to staff that way. They also put too much into FP+ to ditch it.

 

[OpieDoodle]

So you want to go back to the paper FP method they dumped 5 years ago (just making it digital?)
I’m presuming they went to prescheduling because of the large number of complaints they received from people saying they were sick of headliner FP running out the first hour of the day. Your suggestion takes us right back to that (minus the running of the bulls).

DL crowds are VERY different from WDW crowds simply because of how many local AP holders are there each day vs preplanned family vacation.

This is a really great point the DL and WDW crowd base is very different. I personally have never been to DL because you can't plan. Planning a family vacation for me means I have a lot of age ranges and wants I'm trying to satisfy at once. I am that person that plans every minute of the day (including time for naps HAHA) we are planning a trip for Jan 2020 and we already have started discussing which days we plan to do certain things, restaurants, etc. So when the day comes I can book things I am probably the first one on the app booking away! Getting to plan my vacation and making sure I get the most of it has been what keeps bringing us back to WDW, I'm not saying we would stop going if the system changed because we are Disney crazy BUT I doubt we would be going as often as we currently do.

The hard part with it is getting to plan everything out is what makes it worth staying in Disney resorts, booking cars, paying for a expensive meal plan, flights, etc. Adds a lot more value to know I won't have to worry about missing the Frozen ride for example due to a long wait and my 3 year old would not handle the wait LOL

 

[Moliphino]

This is a really great point the DL and WDW crowd base is very different. I personally have never been to DL because you can't plan. Planning a family vacation for me means I have a lot of age ranges and wants I'm trying to satisfy at once. I am that person that plans every minute of the day (including time for naps HAHA) we are planning a trip for Jan 2020 and we already have started discussing which days we plan to do certain things, restaurants, etc. So when the day comes I can book things I am probably the first one on the app booking away! Getting to plan my vacation and making sure I get the most of it has been what keeps bringing us back to WDW, I'm not saying we would stop going if the system changed because we are Disney crazy BUT I doubt we would be going as often as we currently do.

The hard part with it is getting to plan everything out is what makes it worth staying in Disney resorts, booking cars, paying for a expensive meal plan, flights, etc. Adds a lot more value to know I won't have to worry about missing the Frozen ride for example due to a long wait and my 3 year old would not handle the wait LOL

We went to DLR 3 years ago and going back in time to old paper fastpasses was frustrating (MaxPass wasn't out yet, I don't think, and we wouldn't have paid for it anyway). Thankfully RSR has a single rider line because the line to get a fastpass first thing in the morning was insane. Similar experience at DLP for Thunder Mountain at rope drop, though no single rider line there.

 

[ljmiii]

So you want to go back to the paper FP method they dumped 5 years ago (just making it digital?)...

Oh yeah. The Disney experience with MaxPass is SOOO much nicer than FP+. At first I enjoyed FP+, learning the game, snagging that hard to get FP 60+ days out and then seeing what I could get on that day.

But after a few years of experience I recognize FP+ for what it is - a fun killer. Wake up and want to go to EPCOT instead of HS...too bad. Unexpectedly meet up with one of your kid's friends on school break and want to go on rides together...too bad. Walk around the park glued to your phone in an insane quest for FPs...worst of all. Our recent trip to DisneyLand was a revelation and a reminder of what our trips to WDW used to be like.

 

[OpieDoodle]

We went to DLR 3 years ago and going back in time to old paper fastpasses was frustrating (MaxPass wasn't out yet, I don't think, and we wouldn't have paid for it anyway). Thankfully RSR has a single rider line because the line to get a fastpass first thing in the morning was insane. Similar experience at DLP for Thunder Mountain at rope drop, though no single rider line there.

My parents have taken my kids and brothers kids to DL a couple times now and have had a blast. BUT they take kids of similar ages and sizes with similar interests. The trip is a lot more relaxed and flexible which is great BUT I have three kids of different ages and interests which makes it very hard for a family trip to make everyone happy.

I remember has a teenager going on family Disney trips and my brother and I would take everyones room key in our party and take off SPRINTING to the big rides to get a fast pass for them. It was insane.

I do see the struggle tho with those who don't have time or simply don't want to plan that far in advance with dinning and fast passes.

 

[dlavender]

Easy WDW just had a great post explaining wait times.

One thing I keep seeing here and elsewhere is the "What else can WDW do to help with wait times?"

Here's a novel idea, Stop cutting hours. He points out that for the first time since 2011 during Thanksgiving week, MK opened at 9am and closed at 11PM vs 8AM - 12AM. That's a cut of 14 hours that week to the world's busiest park. And I think we can all agree that since 2011, crowds have increased. So has the cost. Why the cut? Time for the tin foil hat to come back out. Increased waits are now an opportunity for more $.

October 2018 operated on average 2 hours less per day vs 2017. I'm hoping that doesn't continue this year.

So to those who say "what else could they possibly do besides charging more" I say, "don't cut hours, and build more than 2 rides in the new lands"......

 

[jhoannam]

Easy WDW just had a great post explaining wait times.

One thing I keep seeing here and elsewhere is the "What else can WDW do to help with wait times?"

Here's a novel idea, Stop cutting hours. He points out that for the first time since 2011 during Thanksgiving week, MK opened at 9am and closed at 11PM vs 8AM - 12AM. That's a cut of 14 hours that week to the world's busiest park. And I think we can all agree that since 2011, crowds have increased. So has the cost. Why the cut? Time for the tin foil hat to come back out. Increased waits are now an opportunity for more $.

October 2018 operated on average 2 hours less per day vs 2017. I'm hoping that doesn't continue this year.

So to those who say "what else could they possibly do besides charging more" I say, "don't cut hours, and build more than 2 rides in the new lands"......

I was just going to make a similar comment. MK isn't opening before 9AM at all anymore (besides EMH). That's just crazy, why are you cutting hours when your attendance keeps increasing? I don't understand.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Oh yeah. The Disney experience with MaxPass is SOOO much nicer than FP+. At first I enjoyed FP+, learning the game, snagging that hard to get FP 60+ days out and then seeing what I could get on that day.

But after a few years of experience I recognize FP+ for what it is - a fun killer. Wake up and want to go to EPCOT instead of HS...too bad. Unexpectedly meet up with one of your kid's friends on school break and want to go on rides together...too bad. Walk around the park glued to your phone in an insane quest for FPs...worst of all. Our recent trip to DisneyLand was a revelation and a reminder of what our trips to WDW used to be like.

You still can. It’s called standby.

Listen, I get it. They lock you in (and that was the point, allegedly to staff accordingly). Don’t forget about not being able to change dining reservations to a different park without incurring a fee for last minute cancellation.

My point is, I just don’t see them going back to the old way.

No matter what they decide to do, it’s not going to make everyone happy.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

To the suggestion of having everyone book FPs one day at a time (which has been mentioned by several people in several different threads) it's not just inconvenience but also a bandwidth issue. If the average length of stay is 4 days (which is probably conservative), you will have approximate 4x the number of people logging in at 7 am each day. True that they will not be on as long because they are making 1 day's worth of FPs but that's going to be quite a tidal wave at 7. Unless Disney upgrades it's infrastructure people would be spending a lot of time battling Olaf.

https://touringplans.com/blog/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

Thanks for posting this. I didn't start going to Disney again until after the switch to FP+ so I have taken as fact that FP increased the wait times at secondary rides. Clearly it does, but not to the level you would expect reading things here. We love our legend and lore on the Dis and who doesn't like a good fish story. There's always a kernel of truth (a fish was caught) but fish tend to grow over time.

 

[PatMcDuck]

This is a really great point the DL and WDW crowd base is very different. I personally have never been to DL because you can't plan.

Just to say, you do not NEED to plan so much in advance at DL, which is the beauty of it. We wake up, walk to entrance area, and say, which park should we go to today? Such freedom! And with MaxPass, it is easy to navigate around the park without long lines. You can set up return times for the evening as day progresses. You can add some from your hotel room too.

Agreed MaxPass would not work as well at WDW, though.

I love both WDW and DL, and go to both each year, WDW more often because I live on east coast.

 

[Airb330]

Actually Touring Plan and easyWDW came to the exact similar conclusion on their studies, which was that FP+ has increased the wait times on secondary rides (to a marginal degree) and decreased them (again marginally) on primary rides. This only means that FP+ has moved people from waiting for primary rides instead to using that time to FP secondary rides. This was precisely Disney's intention with FP+. Disney wanted ride times to be more even across the park and to increase the use of under-utilized rides. The question is if Disney removed FP (or make it paid) will the reverse happen, secondary attractions decrease and those guests not riding them move to primary attractions? This is quite possibly true.

Though I must say easyWDW's analysis wasn't scientific (no probability tests on the significance of the data) but Touring Plan attempted to determine if their data had any statistical significance.

True, my head was more focused on the second tier rides. Neither seems scientific to me, regardless if one blog threw in a t-test. Who knows if Disney's data is even looked at through that stringent of a lens. Regardless in aggregate it's more helpful/useful than not and appreciate both blogs attempts. TP's data lately just has me shaking my head a bit (I'm a member and also read easywdw, so no skin in the game really). It's also very hard to compare what we "feel" about ride lengths before FP+ because let's face it: the economy wasn't as solid, there were less "new" things, and therefore the parks were less crowded before FP+. Same thing using any data from 2014 at this point.

What I bolded in your post above really is the question.

 

[SaharanTea]

What you are describing is the MaxPass - which is never going to be implemented at WDW. The crowds are completely different. And even then, you get an advantage if you're an early riser. Disney is also not going to give out 10's of thousands of anytime FP's. It would be impossible for them to staff that way. They also put too much into FP+ to ditch it.

There are quite a few suggestions here wanting anytime fast passes to be part of the new equation. Giving out thousands more of those doesn't allow Disney to push crowds around. I don't see it happening. What they give out now is a pretty small sum that comes at very little cost to them. It's a boo-boo fixer and a pixie dust spreader. I really don't see them throwing out thousands of those and losing all that control over their guests.

 

[Networth]

Why oh why in the world would you want to book fastpasses one day at a time that is a head ache. I rather suck it up for one day and get it all done (which is not that bad).

While I agree POTC, SE, HM, etc don’t need FP+. I rather book them all at once.

 

[SaharanTea]

Easy WDW just had a great post explaining wait times.

One thing I keep seeing here and elsewhere is the "What else can WDW do to help with wait times?"

Here's a novel idea, Stop cutting hours. He points out that for the first time since 2011 during Thanksgiving week, MK opened at 9am and closed at 11PM vs 8AM - 12AM. That's a cut of 14 hours that week to the world's busiest park. And I think we can all agree that since 2011, crowds have increased. So has the cost. Why the cut? Time for the tin foil hat to come back out. Increased waits are now an opportunity for more $.

October 2018 operated on average 2 hours less per day vs 2017. I'm hoping that doesn't continue this year.

So to those who say "what else could they possibly do besides charging more" I say, "don't cut hours, and build more than 2 rides in the new lands"......

Right. As I said in my post about fast passes being a finite commodity, you can only "create" more by literally creating more capacity (i.e., build more rides), increasing park hours, or cutting park guests (usually by increasing prices). Otherwise, you are just taking fast passes from one group and giving them to another.

On the ride building front, they've been too slow to build. They've also done too much replacing which doesn't increase capacity. In some cases, you get a net decrease. But this costs capital, and if you build rides without taking out old rides, you increase staffing. Disney is clearly in a staffing-averse period right now.

Park hours are continually complained about. To go with this, you have staffing cuts that artificially decrease capacity during open hours! But, hey, you're getting more opportunity to pay for more park hours with DAH and EMM. I guess we should thank them for that.

Disney has been aggressively increasing prices. So we can see them chasing the fewer guests/higher per quest spending dynamic. They openly talk about this.

 

[scrappinginontario]

In spite of FP, I believe a lot of the wait times for rides is being controlled by Disney themselves. I remember listening to Len Testa (TP) on a DIS podcast last spring discussing a study they had done on Pirates of the Caribbean. (If you're interested in listening to it it was broadcasted Mar 6, 2018 called BONUS - Conversation with Lent Testa of TouringPlans.com)

This is what I remember (so it will not be completely accurate) but.....
They did a study where they placed a person outside the exit of certain rides.

The first day they did this was mid-week early in the year when their crowd calendar rated crowds were lower. This person noted the wait times in line and physically counted each person who was exiting the ride.

They repeated this exact same thing either on the weekend or a little after that when the crowds were significantly higher. Again the person noted wait times in line and physically counted each person who exited the ride.

What I found interesting was that even though the wait times in line were almost identical, almost 25% more people were exiting the ride in the same amount of time and there were many times that even though the crowds were higher their actual wait time was lower. They did this for a number of rides and found that on lower capacity days, Disney was dropping the capacity on some of their major rides by anywhere from 25%-40%! Those are huge decreases.

So, how I now look at it (and this was an eye opener to me last year) was that regardless of how many people are in the park, how many FastPasses are/are not distributed, Disney has 100% control over how many people they will load onto the ride and how fast the ride will move.

I used to think that if I went to a park on a lower crowd day that I was 'guaranteed' (and I use that term loosely) that my wait times would be lower than if I went on a busier day. After hearing the above I've changed my tune.

 

[SaharanTea]

In spite of FP, I believe a lot of the wait times for rides is being controlled by Disney themselves. I remember listening to Len Testa (TP) on a DIS podcast last spring discussing a study they had done on Pirates of the Caribbean. (If you're interested in listening to it it was broadcasted Mar 6, 2018 called BONUS - Conversation with Lent Testa of TouringPlans.com)

This is what I remember (so it will not be completely accurate) but.....
They did a study where they placed a person outside the exit of certain rides.

The first day they did this was mid-week early in the year when their crowd calendar rated crowds were lower. This person noted the wait times in line and physically counted each person who was exiting the ride.

They repeated this exact same thing either on the weekend or a little after that when the crowds were significantly higher. Again the person noted wait times in line and physically counted each person who exited the ride.

What I found interesting was that even though the wait times in line were almost identical, almost 25% more people were exiting the ride in the same amount of time and there were many times that even though the crowds were higher their actual wait time was lower. They did this for a number of rides and found that on lower capacity days, Disney was dropping the capacity on some of their major rides by anywhere from 25%-40%! Those are huge decreases.

So, how I now look at it (and this was an eye opener to me last year) was that regardless of how many people are in the park, how many FastPasses are/are not distributed, Disney has 100% control over how many people they will load onto the ride and how fast the ride will move.

I used to think that if I went to a park on a lower crowd day that I was 'guaranteed' (and I use that term loosely) that my wait times would be lower than if I went on a busier name. After hearing the above I've changed my tune.

This is also what I noticed about Pirates (and was noted by many people in different places that year) in 2017. We did an evening EMH at MK. Got in line for Pirates, they had one side of the loading area shut down. Empty boats were going out. This is what, three people worth of staffing? Everyone in line around us noticed as well.

Staffing cuts for line items in a budget so they can meet some arbitrary quarterly number. They are walking a fine line.

 

[Mome Rath]

So to those who say "what else could they possibly do besides charging more" I say, "don't cut hours, and build more than 2 rides in the new lands"......

If you don't cut hours, and you build more rides... that's more cost to Disney which means they are going to have to charge more.