"Owning" DVC?

[beamreach]

I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.

I not only understand it, I explained it to you, the rest is up to you and I think I can safely say we are all pulling for you!

Unfortunately, it's not so simple. This is obviously made intentionally complicated DVD, but some loyalists will reduce that complexity over and over again down to the irreducible.I believe the actual answer is that DVC is a prepaid vacation program, wherein members prepay usage that has an expiration date and wherein Disney remains the actual landlord and property owner. You only "own" points which allow you to rent that which you already prepaid (if you can find a room, as inventory is restricted and may be sold for cash), and these points are sold as a longterm leasehold which you own as real estate. After much discussion, I believe we have arrived at the answer.

 

[mistysue]

Ok I'm bored, I'l jump down this rabbit whole with you.

Hypothetically!

Unit 4B At Disney Bay Lake Tower is comprised of 19,640 vacation points. I got the number number by using a 100 point contract of .5092% interest. I have no way of knowing if that is a one bedroom studio two bedroom Grand Etc..... Nor do I care for the sake of this academic hypothetical case study.

Assuming that SandiSW is correct, and I have no reason to believe that she is not, a 60.0001 percent control interest in that until would be 11786 vacation points. No one person can own or control that many DVC points I believe the maximum any one person may own is 7000 points, but I maybe wrong. So two people would have to own each unit. 5600 points each. BLT on the resale market is $175 dollars per point. So for controlling interest in a single unit, in this highly over simplified Hypothetical you or coordination group would need to spend $2,062,550

I believe there are 281 units. assuming you need a simple majority of those units and all units contain the same 19,640 vacation points you would need to control 141 units at a total cost of $290,819,550. As an owner or with the help of enough owners it is possible to control a DVC resort.... Is it likely NO!

If you want to control a DVC resort there are easier and cheaper ways to do it.
Also before you ever got control, DVC would exercise the ROFR on ever single contract you try and purchase regardless of price.

Again, my initial post was to prove the difference between an ownership interest and a leasee interest.
I in no way think this is practical and I think it is highly improbable, but if you succeed, since it was my idea can I pick the purple I want?

Good luck

Just as a random FYI- I coincidentally spent my last Friday night on the comptroller's website trying to figure out which units it was that I bought pieces of.
In that description that says you have a percentage of a unit, it will list a book. If you look up the book there will be certain units whose description and floor plan are drawn out in the original offering. There will be addendums which show subsequent ones. You can definitely find your units if you are interested.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Unfortunately, it's not so simple. This is obviously made intentionally complicated DVD, but some loyalists will reduce that complexity over and over again down to the irreducible.I believe the actual answer is that DVC is a prepaid vacation program, wherein members prepay usage that has an expiration date and wherein Disney remains the actual landlord and property owner. You only "own" points which allow you to rent that which you already prepaid (if you can find a room, as inventory is restricted and may be sold for cash), and these points are sold as a longterm leasehold which you own as real estate. After much discussion, I believe we have arrived at the answer.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I think you have it completely backwards. According to the paperwork, our % interest in the deeded property is represented by the points we receive for making reservations (use of these points to represent our ownership interest facilitates trading into other resorts that we don't own at). It seems like you are saying that we own only the points and those points are represented by a leasehold when what we own is the leasehold that is represented by the points.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Just as a random FYI- I coincidentally spent my last Friday night on the comptroller's website trying to figure out which units it was that I bought pieces of.
In that description that says you have a percentage of a unit, it will list a book. If you look up the book there will be certain units whose description and floor plan are drawn out in the original offering. There will be addendums which show subsequent ones. You can definitely find your units if you are interested.

Yes, I know, Thank you

for the purpose of that academic exercise, It doesn’t matter. I didn’t want 89 people telling me I did my math wrong…

I just want to prove a hypothetical… but you can find each unit in the master deed.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Unfortunately, it's not so simple. This is obviously made intentionally complicated DVD, but some loyalists will reduce that complexity over and over again down to the irreducible.I believe the actual answer is that DVC is a prepaid vacation program, wherein members prepay usage that has an expiration date and wherein Disney remains the actual landlord and property owner. You only "own" points which allow you to rent that which you already prepaid (if you can find a room, as inventory is restricted and may be sold for cash), and these points are sold as a longterm leasehold which you own as real estate. After much discussion, I believe we have arrived at the answer.

No, Really it is just that simple!
you just don’t like the answer!
your entire post is just wrong!
hire an attorney! Get them to explain it to you!
if you tell me you are your own attorney, you have a fool for a client

 

[BamaGuy44]

It's both, not mutually exclusive. Can both find it hilarious members claim Disney ownership (which clearly isn't the case), but truly be confused about the specifics of something that is like a timeshare but really condo leasehold.

Sorry but if you can't even properly explain why it isn't technically ownership, then you don't to condescendingly wonder how anyone could possibly ever call it that. But the mental and semantic gymnastics needed to try and defend your incorrect assertion have been entertaining.

 

[Paul Stupin]

No, Really it is just that simple!
you just don’t like the answer!
your entire post is just wrong!
hire an attorney! Get them to explain it to you!
if you tell me you are your own attorney, you have a fool for a client

Thank you for clarifying…at least for me it’s pretty clear after reading all this that we are accurate in referring to ourselves as DVC owners. I find it kind of hilarious that some are either unwilling or unable to grasp the logic.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Thank you for clarifying…at least for me it’s pretty clear after reading all this that we are accurate in referring to ourselves as DVC owners. I find it kind of hilarious that some are either unwilling or unable to grasp the logic.

Some people like to argue….
im one of them so it’s fine

 

[Paul Stupin]

Sorry but if you can't even properly explain why it isn't technically ownership, then you don't to condescendingly wonder how anyone could possibly ever call it that. But the mental and semantic gymnastics needed to try and defend your incorrect assertion have been entertaining.

But aren’t we all gullible idiots who’ve been flimflammed by the macchiavellian genius of a misleading marketing campaign, with no real idea of what we bought?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

But aren’t we all gullible idiots who’ve been flimflammed by the macchiavellian genius of a misleading marketing campaign, with no real idea of what we bought?

No, I think, I for one explained what I bought pretty dam well….

your results may very but you speak for yourself

 

[Paul Stupin]

No, I think, I for one explained what I bought pretty dam well….

your results may very but you speak for yourself

You did indeed. And I think we‘re all quite aware of what we bought.

 

[DonMacGregor]

You’ve all got it wrong! It’s a vast conspiracy wherein Disney convinces us we “own” something (which we don’t); Orange County (and the others) allow Disney to file deeds to “property” identifying us as “owners” when we’re not; local District Attorneys and State Attorneys General allow multitudes of documents signed and notarized under penalty of perjury to be filed fraudulently (identifying us with specificity as “owners” when we’re not); the Counties fraudulently collect property tax from us, even though we are not “owners”; and State and Federal tax authorities identify us as owners when requiring us to file mortgage tax documents (on a loan that isn’t really a mortgage because mortgages are secured loans, by definition collateralized with real property) although we don’t really “own” anything. Not to mention all of the licensed real estate brokers who handle DVC resale and risk losing their licenses by “selling” a real estate interest when they’re really selling points. Oh yeah, and all the notaries public risking the loss of their commissions (and committing fraud) by notarizing obviously fraudulent sales documents. They’re all in cahoots!

It truly is masterful in its complexity. Devilishly clever!

 

[mistysue]

Yes, I know, Thank you

for the purpose of that academic exercise, It doesn’t matter. I didn’t want 89 people telling me I did my math wrong…

I just want to prove a hypothetical… but you can find each unit in the master deed.

LOL, I'm familiar with simplifying to avoid that internet argument of you did math slightly wrong when exact numbers totally aren't the point. It just made me sad when I thought you might not know we can find the units. Some of the documents are a pain in the butt to locate. It took me multiple hours to find my Poly unit. This whole discussion seems to be because a few are mistaking documents we need to seek out with scam. I guess it's good some of us read things.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

LOL, I'm familiar with simplifying to avoid that internet argument of you did math slightly wrong when exact numbers totally aren't the point. It just made me sad when I thought you might not know we can find the units. Some of the documents are a pain in the butt to locate. It took me multiple hours to find my Poly unit. This whole discussion seems to be because a few are mistaking documents we need to seek out with scam. I guess it's good some of us read things.

Yep, that what I didn’t want to deal with

 

[DarthDadMan]

Thank you for clarifying…at least for me it’s pretty clear after reading all this that we are accurate in referring to ourselves as DVC owners. I find it kind of hilarious that some are either unwilling or unable to grasp the logic.

We're being trolled.

 

[BamaGuy44]

You’ve all got it wrong! It’s a vast conspiracy wherein Disney convinces us we “own” something (which we don’t); Orange County (and the others) allow Disney to file deeds to “property” identifying us as “owners” when we’re not; local District Attorneys and State Attorneys General allow multitudes of documents signed and notarized under penalty of perjury to be filed fraudulently (identifying us with specificity as “owners” when we’re not); the Counties fraudulently collect property tax from us, even though we are not “owners”; and State and Federal tax authorities identify us as owners when requiring us to file mortgage tax documents (on a loan that isn’t really a mortgage because mortgages are secured loans, by definition collateralized with real property) although we don’t really “own” anything. Not to mention all of the licensed real estate brokers who handle DVC resale and risk losing their licenses by “selling” a real estate interest when they’re really selling points. Oh yeah, and all the notaries public risking the loss of their commissions (and committing fraud) by notarizing obviously fraudulent sales documents. They’re all in cahoots!

It truly is masterful in its complexity. Devilishly clever!

Illuminati confirmed. And also they totally stole this whole idea from an episode of Scooby Doo. At the end they rip the mask off an "ownership" contract, showing it to be merely a condominium leasehold! Classic Scooby hijinks!

 

[DonMacGregor]

Illuminati confirmed. And also they totally stole this whole idea from an episode of Scooby Doo. At the end they rip the mask off an "ownership" contract, showing it to be merely a condominium leasehold! Classic Scooby hijinks!

And they would have gotten away with it, if it weren’t for those meddling kids!

 

[mistysue]

Illuminati confirmed. And also they totally stole this whole idea from an episode of Scooby Doo. At the end they rip the mask off an "ownership" contract, showing it to be merely a condominium leasehold! Classic Scooby hijinks!

I feel like that episode had way too many details for most of the audience to follow.

 

[bakerworld]

I try to be conscious of using the verb join versus own in reference to DVC. We're well aware that we've signed an extended rental agreement. This works for us as the room cost is fairly stagnant compared to the CRO side. Joining DVC has also allowed us to reexperience venues that we were priced out of in the 80's but thru DVC have been able to reexperience, like the Polynesian.

Sometimes I wonder if part of the new future would be a 'half-length' DVC membership - 25 years instead of 50. That type of membership would've really worked for us as we didn't join until we were in our 50's.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I find it somewhat curious that the general consensus is that DVD very consciously chooses to use the terms "Vacation Club" and "Members" by choice (even though there's really no "club"), specifically to avoid the stigma of timeshare ownership and the negative connotations of buying a timeshare, as well as the associated terms "owner" and "ownership". Disney has historically done everything in their power to avoid even the slightest hint that they are selling you a timeshare.

Yet here we have someone trying to suggest the exact opposite is the case: that Disney somehow now wants to snooker people into think they are buying a timeshare, the very situation Disney has made every effort in advertising and all non-legal language to avoid even the hint of.