"Owning" DVC?

[Paul Stupin]

We stay several weeks a year, and look at DVC almost like owning a small condo (usually a one bedroom) right on property, but without a lot of the headache. No maintenance, no upkeep, no insurance, no drive across town to the parks, etc. Of course, we all pay maintenance fees, so indeed there is a far from insubstantial cost of “ownership,“ but DVC is also very convenient, fun, and for the most part easy. And the amenities are pretty amazing.

Though I do not regard this as an investment at all, but more as a luxury, totally self indulgent purchase, and not the most practical one either, it’s nice to know that in twenty years I could turn around and sell my contracts, like real estate, and probably make a bit of a profit. So I do feel like I own something of worth, regardless of the fact that of course the term “own” is a bit of a stretch. Who cares?!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Again, i truly cherished my years as a member, but the whole “ownership” thing is a marketing gimmick….. supported by fancy lawyering and contract wording.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Does Disney ever use the term “owners” or do they always say “members”? Other timeshares are owned forever. My guess is that terminology informally just spilled over to this timeshare by DVC members.

Disney or DVD transfer a deed to the purchasers that states the owners undivided interest in an actual unit at a resort…. The unit numbers, to the best of my knowledge do not correlate to a room number…. I also believe you can not own enough point to control an entire unit. But yes your deed says owner

 

[Nabas]

I see shirts in resorts that say "DVC MEMBER"...I call "member services"...I have a "membership number"....so please pardon my surprise when I hear claims of Disney resort ownership left and right. It's not anything about denigrating the DVC product itself, which I actually know nothing about really other than what I see from Disney YouTubers; we bought recently and our experience thus far is grayed-out charts for the rest of the year (GFV, BWV, BC)...yet, somehow I was able to book DVC rooms on the cash side previously. Alas, we will still be lowly hotel guests for the rest of the year, although I must say we looking forward to the purple circle at the park entrances!

It’s my understanding that I Disney does not refer to us as “owners”. They refer to us as “members”.

We don’t own DVC. We are members in a vacation club, with our memberships set to expire in X years.

Every year, we pay membership dues. That payment does not increase our ownership. In fact, ever year, the time left on our memberships decrease.

I might be a member at Costco and pay a membership fee every year, but I don’t own Costco.

I might have paid a high initiation fee to join a golf club, and I might pay annual fees, but that does not give me ownership.

There’s a reason Disney emphasizes the word member, not owner.

I think it’s us who let the word “owner” slip into common usage. It just feels more natural to stay.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It’s my understanding that I Disney does not refer to us as “owners”. They refer to us as “members”.

We don’t own DVC. We are members in a vacation club, with our memberships set to expire in X years.

Every year, we pay membership dues. That payment does not increase our ownership. In fact, ever year, the time left on our memberships decrease.

I might be a member at Costco and pay a membership fee every year, but I don’t own Costco.

I might have paid a high initiation fee to join a golf club, and I might pay annual fees, but that does not give me ownership.

There’s a reason Disney emphasizes the word member, not owner.

I think it’s us who let the word “owner” slip into common usage. It just feels more natural to stay.

let be honest Disney refer to us as a revenue stream…
Are you a DVC owner / member?

However the State of Florida and Phil Diamond the Orange County comptroller consider us owners….. Until the date the we have agreed that we would transfer the deed back to Disney….. BTW the IRS considers your purchase a second home…. Disney and the other finance companies send you what ever the mortgage interest forms is called so you can deduct the interest if you financed…..

So the IRS considers you an owner

not sure if they still do this but Disney used to welcome you home when you walked in the door, because are coming into your second home..

when you join Costco do you get a deeded interested in the club?
every country club I have ever belonged to I receive a stock in the club. One share of stock for each member.
Come to think of if do you Own stock…..

if you own one share of Disney stock you own a piece of that company….

yes DVC member are also deeded owners of the property

 

[zavandor]

Not sure if it works in the same way in USA, but one of the biggest cultural shock I had moving to the UK is how the real estate market works. Almost the totality of flats are sold ad "leasehold", which means someone buying a flat "owns" it only until the lease expired, usually 125 years. It seams madness to me that after paying London prices (one of the craziest market in the world) for a flat, you don't even own it in perpetuity. 125 years might seem a lot, but banks don't give mortgages if less than 80 years remain, so your child might already have problems selling it. There are laws now that grant the right to renew the lease, but it's an additional expense and it's not cheap. And even some "freehold" houses might have to pay a ground rent fee yearly, forever.
A 50 years lease on a timeshare doesn't feel that crazy after this.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Not sure if it works in the same way in USA, but one of the biggest cultural shock I had moving to the UK is how the real estate market works. Almost the totality of flats are sold ad "leasehold", which means someone buying a flat "owns" it only until the lease expired, usually 125 years. It seams madness to me that after paying London prices (one of the craziest market in the world) for a flat, you don't even own it in perpetuity. 125 years might seem a lot, but banks don't give mortgages if less than 80 years remain, so your child might already have problems selling it. There are laws now that grant the right to renew the lease, but it's an additional expense and it's not cheap. And even some "freehold" houses might have to pay a ground rent fee yearly, forever.
A 50 years lease on a timeshare doesn't feel that crazy after this.

With a lease you have ZERO ownership interest…. The lessor holds title to the property.
If DVC was a lease there would be NO DVC resale, because the member would have nothing to sell.

With DVC the only restriction placed on what I do with my title is the ROFR….
This is a very common business tool.
It keeps an owner or group of owners diluting the value of the property. It protects the other owners and their interest in the property, as well as Disney.

my truck is leased, my registration is in the name of ACAR leasing….., my tax bill, goes to ACAR, my tolls go to ACAR,

All of my DVC, along with every other owner‘s contracts are listed in the Orange County Registry of deeds, they are public record, anyone who thinks DVC members are not Owners, is welcome to visit there comptroller’s web site.

 

[CarolMN]

My deed says I have an undivided .xxxx% interest in Unit XXX of....., a leasehold condominium.....according to the Declaration of Condominium......as recorded in Official Records Book..........subject to that certain Ground Lease .......

There are several Florida statues that define and govern leasehold condominiums. They are basically long term rental agreements. DVC Members have a deeded interest in a lease.

Have fun googling. IANAL, and one probably needs one specializing in this area to really understand it all.

 

[Nabas]

My deed says I have an undivided .xxxx% interest in Unit XXX of....., a leasehold condominium.....according to the Declaration of Condominium......as recorded in Official Records Book..........subject to that certain Ground Lease .......

There are several Florida statues that define and govern leasehold condominiums. They are basically long term rental agreements. DVC Members have a deeded interest in a lease.

Have fun googling. IANAL, and one probably needs one specializing in this area to really understand it all.

You mean we own a long-term lease?

 

[Sandisw]

You mean we own a long-term lease?

Here is the definition and it does include the word own and owner:

Leasehold condominium means a condominium in all or any portion of which each unit owner owns an estate for years in his unit, or in the land within which that unit is situated, or both, with all such leasehold interests due to expire naturally at the same time. A condominium including leased land, or an interest therein, within which no units are situated or to be situated shall not be deemed a leasehold condominium within the meaning of this chapter.

So, yes, we own the portion of our unit, but since we don't own the land, it ends and we can't take it with us.

 

[wnielsen1]

A DVC contract is an asset and the person that possesses that asset is an owner. What's to discuss?

 

[BeachClub2014]

it ends and we can't take it with us

There's a whole lot of wisdom in that statement.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Here is the definition and it does include the word own and owner:

Leasehold condominium means a condominium in all or any portion of which each unit owner owns an estate for years in his unit, or in the land within which that unit is situated, or both, with all such leasehold interests due to expire naturally at the same time. A condominium including leased land, or an interest therein, within which no units are situated or to be situated shall not be deemed a leasehold condominium within the meaning of this chapter.

So, yes, we own the portion of our unit, but since we don't own the land, it ends and we can't take it with us.

Thank you I was just about to post that !

 

[Robbie Cottam]

You mean we own a long-term lease?

No Not at all!

 

[Robbie Cottam]

My deed says I have an undivided .xxxx% interest in Unit XXX of....., a leasehold condominium.....according to the Declaration of Condominium......as recorded in Official Records Book..........subject to that certain Ground Lease .......

There are several Florida statues that define and govern leasehold condominiums. They are basically long term rental agreements. DVC Members have a deeded interest in a lease.

Have fun googling. IANAL, and one probably needs one specializing in this area to really understand it all.

Carol, You left out one VERY important paragraph that preceded that one:
Right below WITNESSETH:, your DEED should say:

DVD, for and in the consideration of $10.00 and other goods and valuable consideration to it paid by the Purchaser, the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, has granted, bargained, sold and release, and by these presents does grant, bargain, sell and release unto the Purchaser, the interest in real property (the 'Ownership Interest,' as that interest in real property is further defined in the Declaration of Condominium described below) more fully described as follows:

An undivided .xxx interest.....

This is the definition of Leasehold condominium:

Leasehold condominium means a condominium in all or any portion of which each unit owner owns an estate for years in his unit, or in the land within which that unit is situated, or both, with all such leasehold interests due to expire naturally at the same time. A condominium including leased land, or an interest therein, within which no units are situated or to be situated shall not be deemed a leasehold condominium within the meaning of this chapter.

Does not say rental. Rental and lease imply the ownership of the property never changes had.

I rent DVC points, My renters have ZERO ownership interest in those points.

Yes, under the Leasehold condominium agreement, you OWN your DVC points for a finite number of years. However, for the length of that term NO ONE can tell you what you can do with those points.

Where as it if you rent points the owner can tell you "I only rent for 5 days or longer"....

If you and enough other points owners wanted to paint Bay Lake Tower Purple, you could provided you did in it accordance with the Condominium rules.

 

[beamreach]

If you and enough other points owners wanted to paint Bay Lake Tower Purple, you could provided you did in it accordance with the Condominium rules.

the last point is very interesting, surprised there hasn't been a unionization movement to change undesirable aspects of DVC or sure up the best attributes...sounds like we are on to something!

 

[Sandisw]

the last point is very interesting, surprised there hasn't been a unionization movement to change undesirable aspects of DVC or sure up the best attributes...sounds like we are on to something!

Each unit gets one vote. That vote is currently done by a representative who is part of Disney on the Board. In order for owners to have a say on that vote, you have to get 60% of that individual unit to agree on what needs to be voted. And then, each unit would need to do the same. So, its pretty much impossible since we all agree to allowing the system to be set up the way it is with Disney being in charge.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Each unit gets one vote. That vote is currently done by a representative who is part of Disney on the Board. In order for owners to have a say on that vote, you have to get 60% of that individual unit to agree on what needs to be voted. And then, each unit would need to do the same. So, its pretty much impossible since we all agree to allowing the system to be set up the way it is with Disney being in charge.

Totally, agree. Practically impossible, However, "If you and enough other points owners" not impossible.

But still the point is valid, you could not do that as a renter or leasee.

Oh, and before anyone gets the wrong Idea, I like things just the way they are..... Not looking to start a Disney revolution just stating a Right that a property owner would have versus a renter or leasee.

 

[beamreach]

Each unit gets one vote. That vote is currently done by a representative who is part of Disney on the Board. In order for owners to have a say on that vote, you have to get 60% of that individual unit to agree on what needs to be voted. And then, each unit would need to do the same. So, its pretty much impossible since we all agree to allowing the system to be set up the way it is with Disney being in charge.

An incentivized union could coordinate voting readily. Members could exercise their ownership control (on the leasehold) on important issues. Could just start with the biggest issue at hand (whatever that is) and use that as a case study...

 

[BeachClub2014]

Holy smokes, we went from being property owners to leasehold members, and now on to union organizers all in the course of one thread. This is a fun discussion. If we get to paint BLT purple and throw a Figment statue on the top, then I am all in!