Owners: would you recommend DVC right now?

[we"reofftoneverland]

This group has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "base year" is and how it works. All of the "analysis" that has been done is based on year-over-year changes rather than year-versus-base-year changes. Everything is within the tolerance of what's permitted in terms of variance against base year.

When they've given in and reversed decisions, it's not because you busted them doing something wrong, it's because they're caving to the membership having temper tantrums. The membership is actually preventing them from doing their jobs, which is to attempt to balance demand over the course of the year. Wonder why it's impossible to book a resort in October but super easy to get one in March? It's because the price seasons are out of whack relative to demand, but every time they take baby steps to try and correct it, the membership has a fit and pressures them to abandon the changes. Usually, it's people crying and claiming that their initial contract entitles them to be able to book a week at Old Key West in October for the life of their contract (it doesn't) and that any points increase is unfair (it isn't). This whole "points discrepancy" issue is just an elaborate version of that same complaint.

Actually you are getting tripped up on base year. Base year has nothing to do with it. Just look at the overall amount of points in the system for each resort for each year. Even if you argue that there should be some variability, that would mean up and down but a generally stable line. Instead, what you see is a decidedly upward trajectory. There are many more points in the system than there were five years ago. That is clearly a complete violation of the DVC contract and a watering down of membership value. This will catch up with DVC in a legal way if they do not address it.

 

[RichVIII]

We have been owners for almost six years now.

What is so hard to answer about this question, or at least I believe is that we all change, our families change, we get older, the product evolves, a pandemic hits, etc.

I can't believe my daughter's first trip to Disney was when she was still free and how many times we have been back as she enters middle school. I can't trade those memories of her in an Elsa dress or making sure we see Goofy....every day. DVC was a huge part of making that happen. We paid cash for BLT our first trip. Sadly, we could have purchased a smallish contract for that same price.

We have stayed in HHI, Grand Californian and our most favorite trip was to Aulani. DVC made that possible.

Even if I take the discounted rack rate for all our trips, we have already paid for it in just about 5 years. I know that takes longer now with rising prices (we averaged about $125 a point). You will hear many say they wish they bought earlier or more points earlier - because prices rise and if you are still coming to Disney with any frequency, the more value you get from DVC.

As as you have seen OPs, we all go "not at these prices" since we paid far less. I keep looking at contracts kicking myself I didn't buy when it was $50-75 a point cheaper and we could have already been using them! I bet even 5 years from now the same discussion and the same grousing about pricing will occur.

Our vacation plans certainly have changed as we have started to visit more places than Disney. I see us using more points for larger spaces as our daughter gets older and wants her own space or brings a friend. DVC makes that possible for us. We can scale back our points since we have three contracts later in life or as life changes. Hopefully, values will still remain but we have gotten our monies and memories worth. If we sell for more than we purchased it is a windfall and unexpected. Am I thrilled with all the changes, of course not but that has not impacted the value and memories we have received.

Plus...life is short and as we have seen last year, nothing is guranteed.

 

[Climhazzard]

If you have a strong sense that annual or semi-annual Disneyworld vacations are in your future then yes, I would still recommend DVC if you can pay cash.

A lot of people who have had their contract for years/decades are in a very different place in life than many prospective new buyers and their opinions will reflect that. Also, if you bought your contract at $60 a point, of course you won't recommend it at $180. But those prices are never coming back and the truth is if you value the product and want it to be a part of your life and possibly your kids' lives, then it can still make a lot of sense.

We have four young kids and need the villas to make a trip work. We know we will be doing Disney for many years (I've been going to Disney Parks since I was 3 and love it just as much as my kids) so DVC made a lot of sense for us. Won't for everyone.

I get it that perks and value has shifted from what it once was, and I understand the concerns about current management, but we love our home resorts and the overall experience makes it absolutely worth it for us.

 

[RoseGold]

Even as someone who has looked into the checkered history of Aulani, I have defended a lot of DVC issues. I can live with some incompetence because of the overall DVC product.

I'm not sure I believe this anymore. My resale account is not allowed to borrow points, which is making me miss bookings, and the response has been a joke. I'd expect better service from my spin class reservation system -- and these are four figure bookings!

My dues have never gone down, as service has tumbled. Where did the money go? The points issues, the borrowing issues, the housekeeping issues, the phone wait time issues, the WEBSITE ISSUES. Management is a major problem to me. I'm an owner, and I don't feel like management is working for my interests or even cares about my interests. I LIKE the complicated system, I like spending time on this, but I assumed it was fair. Maybe that was never a good assumption.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Even as someone who has looked into the checkered history of Aulani, I have defended a lot of DVC issues. I can live with some incompetence because of the overall DVC product.

I'm not sure I believe this anymore. My resale account is not allowed to borrow points, which is making me miss bookings, and the response has been a joke. I'd expect better service from my spin class reservation system -- and these are four figure bookings!

My dues have never gone down, as service has tumbled. Where did the money go? The points issues, the borrowing issues, the housekeeping issues, the phone wait time issues, the WEBSITE ISSUES. Management is a major problem to me. I'm an owner, and I don't feel like management is working for my interests or even cares about my interests. I LIKE the complicated system, I like spending time on this, but I assumed it was fair. Maybe that was never a good assumption.

Your dues didn’t go down this past year?

Mine did

 

[Minniesgal]

I love my DVC but at the current price points even resale plus resale restrictions I’m not sure I’d buy now the value proposal is so much less than it was. Which is probably why hotel rooms are currently so expensive

 

[crisi]

If you have a strong sense that annual or semi-annual Disneyworld vacations are in your future then yes, I would still recommend DVC if you can pay cash.

A lot of people who have had their contract for years/decades are in a very different place in life than many prospective new buyers and their opinions will reflect that. Also, if you bought your contract at $60 a point, of course you won't recommend it at $180. But those prices are never coming back and the truth is if you value the product and want it to be a part of your life and possibly your kids' lives, then it can still make a lot of sense.

We have four young kids and need the villas to make a trip work. We know we will be doing Disney for many years (I've been going to Disney Parks since I was 3 and love it just as much as my kids) so DVC made a lot of sense for us. Won't for everyone.

I get it that perks and value has shifted from what it once was, and I understand the concerns about current management, but we love our home resorts and the overall experience makes it absolutely worth it for us.

You are right that the decades cause sticker shock (I cannot believe how expensive apples are - they should be $1 a pound) - but at the same time, DVC has increased in price a lot faster than wages have for most people - as have some other aspects of life (like college tuition and medical costs) that make it more difficult to justify for more people. In the meantime, there have been some disruptive movements that have given people other options - I'm thinking about AirBnB specifically in this case, but the availability to do price comparisons on rental cars easily - which in turn suppresses pricing, is another one (though currently the rental car market is Covid impacted).

I've been one of the slower to recommend on this board forever - when DVC works for people, it works great....but it doesn't work for everyone. I think the number of people it works for has decreased - for a wide variety of reasons. The cost of Disney (not just DVC, but tickets and dining) outpacing wage growth is one of them.

 

[fumanchu2488]

You are right that the decades cause sticker shock (I cannot believe how expensive apples are - they should be $1 a pound) - but at the same time, DVC has increased in price a lot faster than wages have for most people - as have some other aspects of life (like college tuition and medical costs) that make it more difficult to justify for more people. In the meantime, there have been some disruptive movements that have given people other options - I'm thinking about AirBnB specifically in this case, but the availability to do price comparisons on rental cars easily - which in turn suppresses pricing, is another one (though currently the rental car market is Covid impacted).

I've been one of the slower to recommend on this board forever - when DVC works for people, it works great....but it doesn't work for everyone. I think the number of people it works for has decreased - for a wide variety of reasons. The cost of Disney (not just DVC, but tickets and dining) outpacing wage growth is one of them.

I agree that historically DVC has been outpacing general inflation. But I think it tracks close to that of price increases for Disney Hotel Stays. So that is why it goes back to; CURRENTLY, are you planning on going to WDW every year or other year. In that case you should not compare historical DVC costs to current DVC costs. You should compare DVC costs vs. on site hotel rates. And in that case, if you are planning yearly or every other year trips, DVC makes sense if you can swing it financially.

If you are someone that likes staying off site, if you like value resorts, or if you aren't sure you plan on going often, DVC is not for you.

Another interesting question I would have for older members: If DVC did never existed, would you go to Disney every year or other year?

 

[CarolynFH]

Another interesting question I would have for older members: If DVC did never existed, would you go to Disney every year or other year?

Nope, without DVC we couldn’t afford to go as often as we wanted to. That was a secondary reason for buying - the primary reason was to have space, 2 bathrooms and privacy for the four of us. We were already familiar with timeshares because my parents owned elsewhere and knew we’d appreciate and use the kitchen and laundry. Hotel rooms wouldn’t work for us anymore!

 

[Miffy]

OP, here's a completely different viewpoint. I come to WDW usually twice a year, stay deluxe or occasionally moderate, and have been doing so since the '90s. I've thought about buying DVC but have never done it. I do not regret my decision.

Perhaps I have spent more at WDW resorts than I would have if I'd purchased DVC way back when, but, in the meanwhile, I don't have to pay dues, I didn't have to negotiate with my XH over the asset when we split up 12 years ago, I don't have to waitlist or walk a reservation or settle for a resort I don't really want to stay at because that's all that's available, I take advantage of bounceback (currently nonexistent, but it's been there for years), and when WDW doesn't fit my budget or my schedule, I simply don't go.

Not to mention . . . if I check in to my WDW resort and have a problem with the room, it's usually completely possible to get a different room. This has happened to me more than once, and the front desk is always accommodating, if possible. Also, every once in a while I've gotten completely surprising, unasked-for room category upgrades.

Plus one used to get housekeeping every day, although that's no longer the case, I'm sorry to say.

Finally, I've never ever paid rack rate for a WDW resort room.

Just thought you might appreciate the viewpoint of someone who doesn't own DVC but who reads the DVC threads all the time because they're fascinating.

 

[fumanchu2488]

OP, here's a completely different viewpoint. I come to WDW usually twice a year, stay deluxe or occasionally moderate, and have been doing so since the '90s. I've thought about buying DVC but have never done it. I do not regret my decision.

Perhaps I have spent more at WDW resorts than I would have if I'd purchased DVC way back when, but, in the meanwhile, I don't have to pay dues, I didn't have to negotiate with my XH over the asset when we split up 12 years ago, I don't have to waitlist or walk a reservation or settle for a resort I don't really want to stay at because that's all that's available, I take advantage of bounceback (currently nonexistent, but it's been there for years), and when WDW doesn't fit my budget or my schedule, I simply don't go.

Not to mention . . . if I check in to my WDW resort and have a problem with the room, it's usually completely possible to get a different room. This has happened to me more than once, and the front desk is always accommodating, if possible. Also, every once in a while I've gotten completely surprising, unasked-for room category upgrades.

Plus one used to get housekeeping every day, although that's no longer the case, I'm sorry to say.

Finally, I've never ever paid rack rate for a WDW resort room.

Just thought you might appreciate the viewpoint of someone who doesn't own DVC but who reads the DVC threads all the time because they're fascinating.

This is a really good point and something to consider. I would say another group where DVC really isn't worth it is for very high income groups. If you can afford to stay in deluxe accommodations and are not worried about spending $500 - $800 per night then I wouldn't buy DVC. Flexibility has a lot of value.

 

[crisi]

I agree that historically DVC has been outpacing general inflation. But I think it tracks close to that of price increases for Disney Hotel Stays. So that is why it goes back to; CURRENTLY, are you planning on going to WDW every year or other year. In that case you should not compare historical DVC costs to current DVC costs. You should compare DVC costs vs. on site hotel rates. And in that case, if you are planning yearly or every other year trips, DVC makes sense if you can swing it financially.

If you are someone that likes staying off site, if you like value resorts, or if you aren't sure you plan on going often, DVC is not for you.

Another interesting question I would have for older members: If DVC did never existed, would you go to Disney every year or other year?

Nope. But as it turns out, even with DVC we didn't. We bought points for every other year, but its been five years since my last WDW trip - and will be at least another two and a half. We've done Hilton Head and Aulani - but without DVC we would have still done HH and Hawaii as both areas have wonderful places to stay that aren't Disney owned.

But that current thing gets to my second point - there has been a lot of disruption since we joined. I often say that if Bonnet Creek would have been built when we joined, we wouldn't have bought DVC. Disney as a whole isn't the value it was when we joined - and we would never justify it now (part of the reason we haven't been in the parks for years). Once the kids outgrew Disney vacations being the easiest vacation (which was about six years into our ownership, it became hard to justify Disney - and its even harder at todays prices - when there were so many other vacations to take with the limited amount of vacation time in our lives that are similarly priced.

 

[limace]

Crisi, I just wrote a thread about this about two minutes ago in the Mousellaneous section-and yes, Bonnet Creek is such a good option especially if you drive or don't do ropedrop.

 

[Chrisvee]

We’ve been going to WDW 1/yr starting 2006 and increasing to 3-4 times/yr since we purchased a 200pt BWV resale contract for $72/pt in 2014.

We’ve since added a small contract at BCV and points at DRR to reach 510 points. We’re probably going to sell our BCV contract and buy a comparable number at DRR to consolidate a bit.

Our goal was to increase our number of annual vacations so our BWV points have been well worth it. We’ll be 10 years into retirement when those expire. We hope to use them ourselves until they do, assuming good health and secure finances. If we can’t we’ll rent, sell, or give them away to family depending on what happens to the market as we close in on 2042. We will have gotten our money’s worth and then some; we paid cash for all our contracts.

The DRR points are a bit more of a legacy play since we plan to pass them along to the next generation.

Our only regret is not purchasing sooner but direct was too pricey for us in 2006 and we didn’t know about the resale market. We enjoy searching out the best food, have fun doing non-park things, and have had some great times hosting friends and family.

That said, we would be unlikely to purchase today for a couple of reasons.

First, both resale and direct prices are too high. We just wouldn’t pay those prices at the 2042 resorts with only 21 years left. We want a resort with some walkability which limits us further. PVB is out for us due to availability issues caused by the bungalows and VGF is too high from a points per stay perspective. We aren’t big BLT fans. So that leaves basically DRR and CCV if we overlook the transportation.

Second, Disney is going to continue to increase ticket prices in order to price people in order to alleviate overcrowding and will likely retain that annoying park reservation system augmented by some type of pay for fastpass. While we aren’t people who must do parks every day during a trip….where that is headed is too much of an unknown right now for me to feel comfortable about affordability over the long haul. It’s not enough to make me sell but it’s enough to keep me from buying.

I worry less about Disney and the point charts shenanigans bc the members are on that stuff like hawks.

All that said you know your own finances best; if this makes sense for you and you love Disney, prices are only going to go up until the 2042s start to crash at some point.

 

[Suzabella]

Nope, without DVC we couldn’t afford to go as often as we wanted to. That was a secondary reason for buying - the primary reason was to have space, 2 bathrooms and privacy for the four of us. We were already familiar with timeshares because my parents owned elsewhere and knew we’d appreciate and use the kitchen and laundry. Hotel rooms wouldn’t work for us anymore!

That was why we purchased our other timeshares. We ended up purchasing DVC after the kids were grown and out of the house. We bought for us....and our future grandchildren. Now we book vacations and ask who wants to join. Just got back from a week in HHI with all the kids and grands.

I don't regret our purchases at all. We've had some great trips. I'm just very disappointed in DVD for their treatment of resale owners and owners in general. Common business sense says 'don't disenfranchise your loyal base.' Disney has repeatedly done this through removing benefits to making it impossible to modify online or borrow points on a resale purchase or the point chart snafu. The quality service that Disney is known for doesn't seem to translate to it's DVC members any longer.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

There is a lot to consider when buying DVC, the first of which is how often do you plan to visit Disney? If you are going every year, then DVC might be for you, if you plan on going every five years, then I would not consider DVC. If you plan to go every other year, then purchase a small 50 point or 100 point contract and the math should work in your favor. We purchased over ten years ago, so prices were very different then.

 

[Nabas]

Your dues didn’t go down this past year?

Mine did

Maintenance Fees went up, and then there was a one-time credit for the time it was closed.

For example, my BWV Maintenance Fees increased from $7.365pp to $7.8126pp, an increase of 6.1%. But then there was a one-time credit of $0.70, bringing it down to $7.1126pp.

In 2022, they are not going to increase our dues based on $7.1126pp; they are going to base them on $7.8126pp.

Be prepared for a bit of sticker shock in 2022.

 

[crisi]

That was why we purchased our other timeshares. We ended up purchasing DVC after the kids were grown and out of the house. We bought for us....and our future grandchildren. Now we book vacations and ask who wants to join. Just got back from a week in HHI with all the kids and grands.

I don't regret our purchases at all. We've had some great trips. I'm just very disappointed in DVD for their treatment of resale owners and owners in general. Common business sense says 'don't disenfranchise your loyal base.' Disney has repeatedly done this through removing benefits to making it impossible to modify online or borrow points on a resale purchase or the point chart snafu. The quality service that Disney is known for doesn't seem to translate to it's DVC members any longer.

I don't regret mine either. But rather than more timeshares, we pay cash. In part because what I do now that the kids are out of the house and I have moved to being semi retired and self employed I tend to follow my husband on business trips - in non-Covid times he takes at least one and often two international trips a year. And we book tours. Timeshares are great for a certain kind of travel, but not for our kind of travel.

IMHO Disney's long vaunted "quality" hasn't been there for a LONG time - possibly not in decades - and has really only been seen in glimmers when its been around. When my husband and I went to Disney on our honeymoon twenty five years ago, we went to Country Bear Jamboree and one of the bear's eyes had popped out and was hanging loose in a rather disturbing fashion. That was the point in time I decided that the quality was a fiction. Sometimes its better, sometimes its worse, sometimes it affects you and other times you don't see the hanging eye because you skipped the Country Bear Jamboree or didn't get the room with ripped drapes.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We have owned since 2003 and own over 1500 points and I cannot recommend buying now. A recently reborn thread asked if DVC treats resale purchases different than direct and when you read that thread you can see how DVC has changed.

We can enjoy resort vacations, bring family and friends, but I don’t like the current two tiered membership. Our children will get the benefits that are grandfathered with the points we give them.

 

[RoseGold]

This is a really good point and something to consider. I would say another group where DVC really isn't worth it is for very high income groups. If you can afford to stay in deluxe accommodations and are not worried about spending $500 - $800 per night then I wouldn't buy DVC. Flexibility has a lot of value.

This is actually where I think DVC’s value shines, certainly not most buyers, but that buyer is out there! The GVs or the bungalows or cabins, even a luxurious 2BR, are incredible experiences, for the cost of a couple rack rate deluxe rooms. I bought an entire contract planning to book a BLT GV.

Problem is the quality isn’t deluxe level, the beds, the toiletries, no robes, the horrible service! So it’s a weird combo of truly amazing room build and location that isn’t being executed like a luxury hotel. I mean who wants to spend two hours on the phone to book a luxury theme park view room and sleep on an aging fold out sofa?