OT - Kids not sleeping... EVER!! Update AGAIN!

[K and K's Mommy]

My oldest went through a period of not sleeping when he was three, and I bought Ferber's book. I know not everyone agrees with it, but it worked like a charm for us. He is now a super sleeper.

I would not start the DVD thing unless you are prepared for her to use t.v. to fall asleep the rest of her life. We travel with my brother, and his son has to have a t.v. on to fall asleep. I can't imagine doing that, but my brother thinks I am crazy for not allowing t.v. in their rooms so I guess you do what works for your family.

My youngest just hit the 3.5 mark, and we are having to phase out naps. His bedtime was just getting too late. I have to work to keep him awake from about 4:30-6:00. Then Daddy comes home, and he gets a second wind until about 7:30. He then sleeps straight through until 6:30 or 7:00.

Good luck! I hate not getting sleep!!!

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

Isn't that the book they talk about in Meet the Fockers???

 

[graygables]

Maybe I missed it, but what time do you put them down? When my youngest were little, naps went by the wayside by 18mo for both of them and they didn't go to bed until 9pm (or later). My youngest at 3 would wake up early/middle of the night. The rule was, she could get up, but she had to be quiet and stay in her room. We had a safety gate across the door and a small lamp she could turn on herself. She would get up and play to her heart's content. Sometimes, we'd find her toys strewn about and her asleep again in the morning, sometimes not. As far as the binkies go, stock up and keep more lying around. We had a "blankie bunny" that I sewed a short length of ribbon to with a snap to hold the binkie on. If DD lost her binkie, she knew she just had to find bunny.

 

[LAH LAH]

If you truly do not want to have her come out tonight this is my recommendation...be ready for NO sleep for this night...but in the end it will be worth it:

First time she comes out walk her back in and calmly say "Sweetie (or whatever lovey name you might have for her) it's time for sleep, goodnight"

Second time same thing but just "Its time for sleep" and walk out

Third time - and until she stops just take her back to bed and say nothing.

You may not sleep the WHOLE night...but she will get the idea.

If she is just screaming do not go in for ANY reason...she will get the idea quick. Most likely the same night!!!

We only had to do this ONE night...and I tell you it wasn't easy! My husband and I stayed up all night talking, playing card games, and just trying to block out the screaming...but being on the same team was such a help. Go into it knowing you might not get ANY sleep and you might be surprised.

If you and your husband mean business she will give in before you both do.

Good Luck!

~Melissa

 

[puffkin]

I only have one thought because there is a lot of great advice on this thread. But maybe leave some books or something in there and some soft lighting (or a light she can turn on).

My son sleeps like a champ at night, but with it getting light out so early, he wakes up and thinks it is time to start the day. He is shut in his room (he hasn't figured out the knob cover yet) and many times he just goes and gets some books and sits and looks at them. He will occassionaly yell out for us, but we don't go in to get him until the acceptable time. He pretty much doesn't cry too much anymore because he knows it is useless.

We also use this approach at naps. Most days he is asleep in a few minutes, but some times he just takes it easy and relaxes in there without actually sleeping. I don't go get him until the designated time either.

He is in daycare FT during the week, and there is a similar policy there. At nap time, they all have to be quiet and not disturb the other kids or they get in trouble. If he wakes up early there, he just sits quietly and waits for the nap period to be over.

Consistency is great!

 

[wilderness01]

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but when my son was the same way I did put the tv in his room. He would quietly turn it on and watch while still remaining in bed resting. I am the same way so I didn't see the huge deal in it.

The ped didn't like it, but when I was getting home from work and going to bed at 2 am, I couldn't get up at 4 am. It worked in my house and I have zero problems with him sleeping many years later. Does he go to sleep with the tv on? Yes he does, but he puts on the sleep timer for 30 minutes and the tv goes off without a hitch.

Do what you feel comfortable with. Will your daughter not nap at all unless you are driving? Maybe she is used to having things on her terms and her terms only. No slam there, as my youngest was used to having it on his terms and it was a hard habit to break. Thankfully we did break it, along with the help of the preschool and the other kids in his class. Children have a wonderful way of putting others in their place. Good luck and I hope you sleep tonight.

 

[zoemurr]

Maybe make a list of things she can do at 4am.. make a sheet with pictures on it to remind her.

She can:
Listen queitly to music
Sit quietly and read a book
Play with stuffed animals in bed
Lay in a sleeping bag by the side of your bed (if you're ok with it..)

Put a smiley face on the side of this of the page with pictures of these things.

On the other side show what she can't do
Wake anyone up
Get out of bed
scream

Bribe her with something.. she gets a sticker when she only does the things on the "good" side of the chart for 5 nights and she gets to go to the Dollar Store and pick something out.

If she does get up/scream.. I agree with the poster that said just walk her back to bed and don't give her any extra attention. I personally wouldn't put movies in there, 'cause you'll never get them back out, but my kids love having music on. Stories on CD are fun too. If she's truely not tired you can't make her sleep, but you can help her make good choiced. Also get her a digital clock and teach her about "7". Tell her she can wake you up when that is the first # on the clock. Good luck!

 

[moepanz]

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but when my son was the same way I did put the tv in his room. He would quietly turn it on and watch while still remaining in bed resting. I am the same way so I didn't see the huge deal in it.

The ped didn't like it, but when I was getting home from work and going to bed at 2 am, I couldn't get up at 4 am. It worked in my house and I have zero problems with him sleeping many years later. Does he go to sleep with the tv on? Yes he does, but he puts on the sleep timer for 30 minutes and the tv goes off without a hitch.

Do what you feel comfortable with. Will your daughter not nap at all unless you are driving? Maybe she is used to having things on her terms and her terms only. No slam there, as my youngest was used to having it on his terms and it was a hard habit to break. Thankfully we did break it, along with the help of the preschool and the other kids in his class. Children have a wonderful way of putting others in their place. Good luck and I hope you sleep tonight.

No flames from me. I have a 5 year old who and I am telling the god's honest truth here has yet to sleep thru the night from the day we brought him home from the hopsital. When he was 2 I had to put a TV in his room for my own sanity. My husband worked overnights at the time and I worked full time (getting the 7:25am train into NYC and the 5:41pm home) It is scary. For thoes of you reading this thinking I must have bad parenting skills and I did something wrong I will let you know that I also have 2 year old twins that share the same room (not with 5yr old) and they sleep from 7:30pm untill 7:30am. I really think is just how my 5yr old is and that is that. For thoes of you concered about his TV viewing he had his kindergarden screening yesterday and I was informed he is reading well above a 3rd grade level so I think he is ok for now.

Bottom line you have to do what works for you. I hate to say this because it would make my blood boil when people would say it to me but "It will get better" and "this to shall pass" and if it doesn't you will adjust!!!!

Good Luck!!

 

[labdogs42]

Is this the kind of binkie she uses? http://www.soothie-pacifier.com/

I'm pretty sure they sell them at WalMart. I remember that my neighbor's DD used this kind. Anyway, from your description, I thought this might be the one. I'm sure more binkies would help the 19 month old for sure!

As for the 3 yo, I have one of those myself! I can' t imagine having two up in the middle of the night, that's for sure! My son is still going through the transition from napping to no naps. When he naps, we're up until 11-12 at night , with no nap he sleeps from about 10pm-8am. That works much better for me. I'm sure someday we'll move the bedtime earlier, but for right now, we live with it. As for where he sleeps, he sleeps in his room, but if he wakes up in the night, I'll go sleep with him. I don't mind and I get much better sleep than if he was waking up every hour! Some nights he sleeps all night by himself and sometimes I have to sleep with him for part of the night. I figure he'll grow out of it eventually.

Have you considered letting your two kids sleep together? I read somewhere recently that sometimes kids LIKE to sleep with a warm body next to them and a sibling can fill that role just like a parent can. It might have been in the No Cry Sleep Solution, but I"m not positive. Maybe by letting the girls sleep together, you could keep them both sleeping better and longer! I know it is an unconventional solution, but it just might work. I'm not one for the cry it out thing. I have never been able to tell the difference between the "I'm just crying to get attention" cry and the "I'm really sick, I need somebody NOW cry", so I just couldn't do it.

Good luck to you! I hope you find a solution that works for you and your family!

 

[sahm1000]

I recommend the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. Excellent. It explains how children who don't get enough sleep go into overdrive and it's that much harder for them to sleep. The book recommends making an earlier bedtime even when it seems that they are getting up too early in the morning. The whole book is "sleep begets sleep."

Lots of good charts in there about average amounts of sleep per age, also!

Another good book is the No-Cry Sleep Solution for Preschoolers (there's another one for babies that may work better for the 19 month old).

Each book comes from slightly different perspectives, but I think they are both very effective.

I second the Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child opinion. I love that book! I think it is a compassionate look at sleeping difficulties and gives parents permission (which I needed to not feel guilty) to let your child cry it out. It is harsh but when I started it when my oldest was 6 months, I was worn out and not being a good Mommy since I was so tired too. What really helped me was learning that their brain development will be hampered if they do not get enough sleep. So for their best interest and yours they do need to sleep.

Well thanks for all the thoughts and posts. Just to clear a few things up, DD3 and DD19m do not share a room, DD3 just has a wonderful pair of lungs and can wake up the whole neighborhood! As of right now, it is DD3 waking up DD19m, though it has been the reverse from time to time. And lastly, my memory isn't the best right now since I've HAD NO SLEEP but as far as I can recall, I think DD3 sleeps best when shes had a nap for the day. The only problem with that, is she will only nap when being driven in the car!! I don't have a huge problem with driving around for 2 hours.... the only issues are: I get on the treadmill 2x a day (I'm really trying to lose this weight!) and taking 2-3 hours out of the day is really hard between the treadmill and getting them lunch, etc., and #2, DD19m takes her nap before DD3 would, so by the time we get into the car for DD3 to nap, D19m has already taken hers, and will not take another... did ya get that???
I don't know... I'm a bit calmer now... I thought earlier I was going to just walk out the door and never come back As I said before, we are 100% not getting DD3 out of her room tonight, no matter what. Maybe we could bring the protable DVD players in for her.... I don't know. I have a feeling that if she knows they are available to her, she will either wake herself up, or just not go to sleep. Plus, they are kind of a reward, and I'm not the kind of mom to reward bad behavior! I guess I'll just never sleep again................

I probably wouldn't start the DVD thing for her. I would be afraid of bad habits if you are not 100% sure that is what you want to do.






And I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this one but I'm being honest.

When my oldest was 6 months we had to let her cry it out. The first night she cried for about 1 hr. 40 minutes straight until she went to sleep. The second night she cried for about an hour. The times decreased until after about 5 days she wasn't crying herself to sleep anymore. And as we did this I moved her bedtime earlier and earlier. At this age she was in bed by 7:00 pm every night. We did the same thing twice a day for naptime too. Her naptimes were never very long, only about 40 minutes. At night she would sleep about 11 hours.

At about 15-18 months (I for get when) we dropped the morning nap. At this point she lengthened her afternoon nap to about 2 1/2 hours all by herself. Her bedtime was still 7:00 and she was sleeping about 12-13 hours at night. Life was great!

Then she figured out that she could climb out of her crib at about 18 months. Of course the first time this occured it was in the middle of the night. We put her back in bed and she was back in our room about 5 minutes later. This went on for about 3 more times all in the same night. Here is where I'm really going to get flamed................ Our house has three bedrooms upstairs and the master bedroom downstairs along with another bedroom that we use as an office. So my DD's bedroom was upstairs and we were downstairs. She wasn't waking up crying, she was just waking up without making a sound (we had a monitor in her room and still do at the age of 4) and climbing out of her crib, and walking down our very large half spiral staircase. I was scared out of my mind that she would fall getting out of the crib or fall walking down the stairs in the dark and break her neck. So that very first night when she got out of the crib after about 4 times of putting her back to bed I made my DH turn the doorhandle around on her bedroom door so that it locked from the outside. I explained to her that we were going to lock her door and that she should stay in bed since she couldn't get out. Of course, I'm sure the concept was somewhat lost on an 18 month old as to what a locked door was so of course, she got out of bed. After she figured she couldn't open the door she started to cry. We put her back to bed and told her again that she wouldn't be able to open the door. She got out twice more and we put her back in bed. The third time we let her cry it out. Please keep in mind that her bedroom was childproofed and by now it was around 6:00 in the morning. She finally fell asleep again on the floor. The next night she stayed in bed all night and only got out in the morning and then she would bang on the door to let us know that she was up. She is now 4 (soon to be 5) and no longer needs for us to lock her door and it hasn't been locked for about a year and a half. She knows that bed time is bed time and we mean business.

Our youngest daughter (now 2 soon to be 3) has never had any sleep issues and sleeps like the dead! She has never climbed out of her bed or crib. Just a different child.

My advice to you is to prepare yourself mentally (I cried myself when my baby was crying herself to sleep and would turn the sound off initially on the monitor and just watch it - but I knew in the long run that this would be the best thing for her and that I was doing what was right for her and I) and physically for a rough week. I would probably let both of your daughter's cry it out. I would either find more binkies for your youngest or if she loses it let her cry it out. And for your oldest I would let her cry it out starting when she woke up at 4:00 am. I would probably start (if you are going to start with letting her cry it out) on a Thursday or Friday so that the worst of it is over a weekend and hopefully it will be better in a week. I am also sure that it might take you longer to accomplish your goal than it took me since your daughter is older. Hang tough and know that whatever and however you decide to do it, sleep is important for you and for her. No matter how mean it may seem you are doing it for everyone's best interest. Neither one of you can function without a good night's sleep. And check out the book Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, I swear it is a lifesaver! I have a copy of it but I checked it out first at our library before I decided to buy one for myself.

 

[cruiserkaren]

What about a white noise machine or fan for each room? That's what we use. Dd4 and dd 7 months has a fan in their room. If the 7 month old didn't have that fan in her room she'd get no sleep with the 4 year old running around.

Also we went round and round like you are doing with dd4. We tried rewards, punishments, charts, ignoring it, talking about it, everything. Finally we came to a compromise. She is allowed to sleep on our floor but she is not to bother us. She kind of gets want she wants (to be around us) and we still get our bed and we all get sleep. It was a compromise we could live with so we went for it.

Of course I'd rather she just sleep in her room but we decided to go with what works. Dh and I talked about it and finally decided that she's going to be a teenager soon enough and we are going to wish she was wanting to be with us. Dd asks weekly when her baby sister will be old enough to sleep with her. I'm hoping once the baby gets older they'll sleep together. We shall see and cross that bridge when it comes.

ETA: We started out letting dd have books to look at when she would wake up in the night. Just using the soft light that was by her bed. Like you said she would get up in the middle of the night just to look at books.

 

[cruiserkaren]

And I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this one but I'm being honest.

When my oldest was 6 months we had to let her cry it out. The first night she cried for about 1 hr. 40 minutes straight until she went to sleep. The second night she cried for about an hour. The times decreased until after about 5 days she wasn't crying herself to sleep anymore. And as we did this I moved her bedtime earlier and earlier. At this age she was in bed by 7:00 pm every night. We did the same thing twice a day for naptime too. Her naptimes were never very long, only about 40 minutes. At night she would sleep about 11 hours.

At about 15-18 months (I for get when) we dropped the morning nap. At this point she lengthened her afternoon nap to about 2 1/2 hours all by herself. Her bedtime was still 7:00 and she was sleeping about 12-13 hours at night. Life was great!

Then she figured out that she could climb out of her crib at about 18 months. Of course the first time this occured it was in the middle of the night. We put her back in bed and she was back in our room about 5 minutes later. This went on for about 3 more times all in the same night. Here is where I'm really going to get flamed................ Our house has three bedrooms upstairs and the master bedroom downstairs along with another bedroom that we use as an office. So my DD's bedroom was upstairs and we were downstairs. She wasn't waking up crying, she was just waking up without making a sound (we had a monitor in her room and still do at the age of 4) and climbing out of her crib, and walking down our very large half spiral staircase. I was scared out of my mind that she would fall getting out of the crib or fall walking down the stairs in the dark and break her neck. So that very first night when she got out of the crib after about 4 times of putting her back to bed I made my DH turn the doorhandle around on her bedroom door so that it locked from the outside. I explained to her that we were going to lock her door and that she should stay in bed since she couldn't get out. Of course, I'm sure the concept was somewhat lost on an 18 month old as to what a locked door was so of course, she got out of bed. After she figured she couldn't open the door she started to cry. We put her back to bed and told her again that she wouldn't be able to open the door. She got out twice more and we put her back in bed. The third time we let her cry it out. Please keep in mind that her bedroom was childproofed and by now it was around 6:00 in the morning. She finally fell asleep again on the floor. The next night she stayed in bed all night and only got out in the morning and then she would bang on the door to let us know that she was up. She is now 4 (soon to be 5) and no longer needs for us to lock her door and it hasn't been locked for about a year and a half. She knows that bed time is bed time and we mean business.

Our youngest daughter (now 2 soon to be 3) has never had any sleep issues and sleeps like the dead! She has never climbed out of her bed or crib. Just a different child.

My advice to you is to prepare yourself mentally (I cried myself when my baby was crying herself to sleep and would turn the sound off initially on the monitor and just watch it - but I knew in the long run that this would be the best thing for her and that I was doing what was right for her and I) and physically for a rough week. I would probably let both of your daughter's cry it out. I would either find more binkies for your youngest or if she loses it let her cry it out. And for your oldest I would let her cry it out starting when she woke up at 4:00 am. I would probably start (if you are going to start with letting her cry it out) on a Thursday or Friday so that the worst of it is over a weekend and hopefully it will be better in a week. I am also sure that it might take you longer to accomplish your goal than it took me since your daughter is older. Hang tough and know that whatever and however you decide to do it, sleep is important for you and for her. No matter how mean it may seem you are doing it for everyone's best interest. Neither one of you can function without a good night's sleep. And check out the book Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, I swear it is a lifesaver! I have a copy of it but I checked it out first at our library before I decided to buy one for myself.

No flames but there is just no way I, me personally, could do this. Crying it out at 6 months and later locking the door to her room. I just couldn't imagine.

But there is the point OP. We each do what works for our families. I hope you find the solution that works for your family. I HATE not getting any sleep. I love sleep!

 

[ERMama]

I feel your pain a bit. Our oldest was a bad sleeper for about 5 yrs. We started letting him come into our bed in the middle of the night and it was hard to break. He still sometimes does but its rare and he goes back into his bed easily. (Im not anti co-sleeping, it just doesnt work for us and his teeth grinding is enough to drive us bonkers).

If 3 yo is ruling your house its because you are allowing her too. Im often the mean mom but I dont really care if I make my kids whine or cry if theres a very good or valid reason behind the choice Im making thats against what they want to do. I guess Ive seen too many bratty kids turn into spoiled brats because they get whatever they want because heaven forbid they cry for awhile. Do NOT over explain.

As for the binkie, Im not a binkie fan. But for your own sanity, if you arent willing to rid her of it now, then I suggest you do another websearch and find another one because having to put a plastic plug into your childs mouth multiple times a night doesnt sound fun at all (and you do need proper sleep to be a decent parent, or maybe just I do).

 

[badblackpug]

I'm mean and will probably get flamed...but...I would let her scream. If you take her downstairs when she screams you are just reinforcing a pattern. She is learning that she has a tantrum she gets what she wants. I would also stop driving her around in the car so she can nap. (I won't even go into the price of gas and the impact on the environment) *donning flame retardant gear* I would throw the binkie in the trash.

You just have to start a routine and absolutely stick to it. You will have a few days of screaming tantrums, but they will get over it.

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

I'm mean and will probably get flamed...but...I would let her scream. If you take her downstairs when she screams you are just reinforcing a pattern. She is learning that she has a tantrum she gets what she wants. I would also stop driving her around in the car so she can nap. (I won't even go into the price of gas and the impact on the environment) *donning flame retardant gear* I would throw the binkie in the trash.

You just have to start a routine and absolutely stick to it. You will have a few days of screaming tantrums, but they will get over it.

I have to say, back when I had my first, I would run into moms like you, who said it was OK to let the kid cry it out, and thought you there just terrible, lazy parents.... now I know the error of my ways!!! You really do have to let some kids cry it out, and if you don't they will pull the same cr@p every night! We have done it in the past with success, its just hard, but no more - Super "let her cry it out" Mom is here! DH just freeks because he doesn't want to have to clean up puke, but I say that I'd rather clean up puke for 5 minutes than lose ANOTHER nights sleep. I'm sticking to my guns, and I'll report tomorrow on how it all went!

 

[momx2]

My oldest DD also puked at this age also when very upset. She also intentionally peed on herself at this age, although potty trained. They do it because it is the only thing they can control when they aren't getting their way. Never let it stop you from doing what needs to be done. Clean up the puke and go on with what you were doing. It took DD only a few months to figure it out, she's very stubborn!

As far as sleeping: The 19mo old would be crying it out if it was me. She only cries for her binkie so you'll come in there and take her to bed with you for a little while. My youngest DD slept like a champ until about 18 months. She was teething horribly and waking and crying. So I began putting her in bed with us to sooth her and it worked. Very easy for me in the beginning, but then she started doing it every night and it went on for months. So, we let her cry it out. The first night she cried for 2 hours and 40 mins. My DH went in every 30 minutes and laid her back in her crib without speaking to her (not me, she was too attached to me). The second night it only took 20 minutes of crying and then the 3rd night, nothing but sweet dreams. It's very hard, but the best for them.

I would probably give the 3 yr. old a tv to watch in her room quietly when she wakes up at that hour. If she gets up, she looses the tv, if she's loud, she looses the tv, etc. She won't rely on it to fall asleep because it's morning. She'll probably started sleeping later soon. Also, if you're having to drive her for a nap, she doesn't need it, IMO. Good luck!

 

[jamesmommy]

Are you sure she isn't having nightmares and waking up? Could she be scared of the dark? To be sure there is a reason that she is suddenly doing this. I am a 40 something adult now, and the nightmares and recurrent fears I had when I was 3-5 years old are some of my earliest memories, sadly enough. If she is having nightmares, it could be that she relates downstairs to a "safe" place. I know when I was little, I couldn't explain what happened, I wasn't even sure what a dream was, only knew I was terrified. Had my parents offered me no comfort, just "abandoned me" and let me scream it out, I would have been devastated (yes I know this sounds overly dramatic, but imagine it from a 3 yo's POV). That just seems so cruel. In fact, looking back, that was the recurring theme of most of MY nightmares.

Personally, I would not cave about going downstairs, but would try to comfort her back to sleep, even if it meant doing the sleeping bag/tent on the floor in parent's room for awhile, or me lying down in her room. Just having someone in the room I could see when I did wake up helped me, even my sleeping sister (another thing to think about, especially if they are both going to be awake anyway). I did cosleep some, with parents and my sister, as well as sleep alone some, and I did grow out of it and was able to sleep on my own all the time as I got older.

It will get easier, children do outgrow these things, no matter what the reason. I do subscribe to the addage of "don't do it if you don't to continue doing it", but don't necessarily see it as a fit here. Probably because when it comes to comforting my child, that's something I want to continue as long as I am able.

 

[crisi]

I remember those days -well, really I don't since they are all a fog of never getting enough sleep.

We decided "whatever gets the most sleep wins" Sometimes I slept in a sleeping bag on my son's floor. Sometimes, I slept with my daughter on the couch in front of the TV. Sometimes it was Dad's turn to take the kids to another part of the house so I slept soundly in my own bed. Sometimes I spent part of the night in the kids beds, sometimes they spent part of the night in our bed. Sometimes we all took naps.

Things to keep in mind....yes, bad sleeping habits are hard to break, but if you are at your wits end now, it won't be any worse later to try and get a four year old out of your bed or the TV off, but I'd make sure to combine it (TV with YOU, then you can remove the TV, keep YOU, then you start removing yourself).

Long naps are not condusive to long sleep for preschoolers. No naps are also sometimes a problem. My daughter started sleeping a lot better when we told daycare to stop making her nap!

If you are really impacting your day to day life, and your kids get sleepy on Benedryl, it may not be the worst thing ever to drug them. Its better than you having a car accident because you aren't awake enough to drive. Personally, I wouldn't do it regularly, but when you are on the edge and non-functional, its worth consideration.

Finally, eventually this will be a distant hazy memory.

 

[_queenie_]

I have sympathy for you, my DS17 was the worst sleeper EVER! Even as a newborn the boy would only sleep about two hours a day, he didn't start to sleep until he got a little older. With him I could never let him cry it out, he would just keep crying. Plus I was always afraid that something was really wrong with him, at that age you're so compelled to go in and check. My last pregnancy was with twins whom I lost to TTTS and my friend had just lost one of her twins to SIDS so all I wanted was a healthy baby. Most of these "experts" say that you shouldn't pick up or feed the baby, but there was nothing else I could do, it's feeding them that makes them fall asleep.

Once he was three or four the bedtime drama continued. This time he just wouldn't go upstairs into his room. Even if he did and I went through with the whole bedtime routine he would pretend to be falling asleep, wait for me to leave the room, and then get out of bed and go back downstairs. If we were in bed he would come into see us there, and if we were downstairs he would go down there. It wasn't always to just be with us though, sometimes he would wait until we were sleeping and go downstairs to watch TV. This was right after my DD13 was born so I think he was having some jealousy issues. The trouble with him is just that he was so smart (and still is would never go to bed if I let him), he knew exactly how to test me and push my buttons. We put a TV in his room, but he always wanted to go downsairs. For some reason I noticed a big difference after my DD13 was out of her crib, he just started to play with her at night (keeping her up in the meantime ) and pretty soon went directly to falling asleep. I have no idea how it happened but I just went with it. Luckily my DDs were a whole lot better, though many still would have considered them high-matinence. They slept a little more and by three would easily go to bed.


Sorry, but I don't know if I can help you much. This is an odd situation, I have no idea what to say. I take it your DD3 isn't telling you why she's waking up, she probably doesn't know herself. You'll hate me for saying this, but it would probably help to get your DD19m off of the paci. Deal with the 3-year-old first and get that whole situation straightened out, if possible, and then see if she'll give it up. It's hard but it might help, really the only suggestion I can give, sorry.

 

[nessz79]

I have to say, back when I had my first, I would run into moms like you, who said it was OK to let the kid cry it out, and thought you there just terrible, lazy parents.... now I know the error of my ways!!! You really do have to let some kids cry it out, and if you don't they will pull the same cr@p every night! We have done it in the past with success, its just hard, but no more - Super "let her cry it out" Mom is here! DH just freeks because he doesn't want to have to clean up puke, but I say that I'd rather clean up puke for 5 minutes than lose ANOTHER nights sleep. I'm sticking to my guns, and I'll report tomorrow on how it all went!

Do what works for you! I could never do full crying it out (although I don't flame those than can stand it)...I just can't stand the sound of crying! So I would modify it. Cry it out, go in, cry it out, etc. I have to admit that this was not hugely effective until they were older, but I think your 2 kids are old enough. Certainly the 3 year old is old enough.

My 3 year old DS can be very manipulative when it comes to bedtime. I usually don't realize that he's created a "game" until it's been a week or more. For example, his latest thing is he has about a thousand stuffed animals in his bed. If ONE is missing, he'll cry for me to find it ...he always waits until after he's gone to bed, though. So finally, after almost a week of this, I realized that this was just a way for him to delay bedtime. So one day I told him it was the last day we were doing this and the next day no more. He still cried when it came time for me to be tough with him, but he gave up pretty quickly.

The 19 month old may be more difficult. Both of my sons were very difficult to sleep-train until 2+ years.

However, just want to reiterate Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. It explains everything so well.