OT - Kids not sleeping... EVER!! Update AGAIN!

[sahm1000]

I have to say, back when I had my first, I would run into moms like you, who said it was OK to let the kid cry it out, and thought you there just terrible, lazy parents.... now I know the error of my ways!!! You really do have to let some kids cry it out, and if you don't they will pull the same cr@p every night! We have done it in the past with success, its just hard, but no more - Super "let her cry it out" Mom is here! DH just freeks because he doesn't want to have to clean up puke, but I say that I'd rather clean up puke for 5 minutes than lose ANOTHER nights sleep. I'm sticking to my guns, and I'll report tomorrow on how it all went!

Good luck, you can do it, but prepare yourself! It is hard but you'll feel better if you get some sleep too!

 

[thegrimdwarf]

- Super "let her cry it out" Mom is here! DH just freeks because he doesn't want to have to clean up puke, but I say that I'd rather clean up puke for 5 minutes than lose ANOTHER nights sleep. I'm sticking to my guns, and I'll report tomorrow on how it all went!

You go, Girl!!!!! Just keep telling yourself it's for their own good. My 2 year old is industrial-strength-stubborn, and he only cried really long and hard for one night. I thought my heart would break, but he needed to sleep. He woke up sooooo happy the next morning, and that night (and every night since, excluding when he's sick), he's gone to bed happily and slept right through.

I wish you a relatively painless ordeal, and lots of full night's of peaceful sleep on the very near horizon!

 

[Jajone]

I recommend the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. Excellent. It explains how children who don't get enough sleep go into overdrive and it's that much harder for them to sleep. The book recommends making an earlier bedtime even when it seems that they are getting up too early in the morning. The whole book is "sleep begets sleep."

Lots of good charts in there about average amounts of sleep per age, also!

Another good book is the No-Cry Sleep Solution for Preschoolers (there's another one for babies that may work better for the 19 month old).

Each book comes from slightly different perspectives, but I think they are both very effective.

It wasn't until my 3rd that I found this book. What a lifesaver! Read it with an open mind and it makes a lot of sense. Since my DS was 6 months we've been following the author's advice and it worked perfectly for my son. We still use the concepts to this day and he is almost 2.

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

Hope things are going well tonight!

 

[SmallWorld71]

Thats a great idea about the binkie, and I know a lot of people who do that, but, DD19m has only ONE BINKIE!!! Its pink and all rubber, and I've looked all over New Jersey in search for another (BabiesRUs where I got it to begin with, Walmart, Target) and none can be found!! She will only use this one binkie, and if we ever lose that thing.... I don't even want to think about what will happen!!!

As far as the CD - we have thought about putting the spair tv and dvd in her room with Hannah or something, but I don't know if a 3 year old should have a tv/dvd in her room! Though if it will save me from strangling someone due to lack is sleep, maybe we should give it a thought!

I'm no sleep expert, that's for sure. But, I have read plenty of studies that show how T.V. hurts kids ability to sleep. So definitely DO NOT bring a T.V. into her room! It would be a quick fix that could cause a much bigger sleeping problem in the long run. Music may help though. Or, giving her something to do besides scream when she wakes up. You know, replace a bad habit with a good one such as a drink of water, playing in her bed with some stuffed animals etc... Making sure the room is dark is a good idea too. I

Otherwise, I don't have any real advice for you since the boys are good sleepers. DD5 was not. We actually co-slept with her until about 3 1/2 and that is what worked for us.

Good luck and don't despair. They say it takes 3 times to correct a behavior, so you will have to be consistent for AT LEAST 3 nights for your plan to work, whatever you decide to do.

 

[wilderness01]

I'm no sleep expert, that's for sure. But, I have read plenty of studies that show how T.V. hurts kids ability to sleep. So definitely DO NOT bring a T.V. into her room! It would be a quick fix that could cause a much bigger sleeping problem in the long run. Music may help though. Or, giving her something to do besides scream when she wakes up. You know, replace a bad habit with a good one such as a drink of water, playing in her bed with some stuffed animals etc... Making sure the room is dark is a good idea too. I

Otherwise, I don't have any real advice for you since the boys are good sleepers. DD5 was not. We actually co-slept with her until about 3 1/2 and that is what worked for us.

Good luck and don't despair. They say it takes 3 times to correct a behavior, so you will have to be consistent for AT LEAST 3 nights for your plan to work, whatever you decide to do.

Our one child that had the tv in his room the earliest is my best sleeper, so I would have to disagree with saying it "causes much bigger sleeping problems in the long run." That child never ever has a problem sleeping so really I wouldn't generalize anything. You need to "do what you need to do" for each individual circumstance is usually what we live by.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Our one child that had the tv in his room the earliest is my best sleeper, so I would have to disagree with saying it "causes much bigger sleeping problems in the long run." That child never ever has a problem sleeping so really I wouldn't generalize anything. You need to "do what you need to do" for each individual circumstance is usually what we live by.

Well, I certainly agree that you need to do what is best for your family and I certainly wasn't trying to offend. I am glad that you found a solution for your family. However, I am not the one who has done all the research on the negative influences of T.V. and I stand by my original statement. I could easily name a dozen parents who have lamented to me over the years at teacher conferences about their problems with T.V. in their kids' bedrooms. Also, my cousin has always had her boys sleep with the T.V. on which has caused a lot of problems which I don't feel comfortable posting. Just trying to keep the OP from a similar situation.

OP - I hope things are going well. Stay strong.

 

[trivial]

It sounds like your DD3 is getting her way, even if it means having to throw up. I say if she throws up, she has to clean it up and she still doesn't get to go downstairs until the right time. I like the idea of putting a CD player in her room, but definitely not a TV... I'm completely against kids having TVs in their rooms, but that's me. Perhaps a nightlight would be good, but it doesn't sound like she's necessarily screaming because she's afraid of the dark. Also, is 3 old enough to appreciate losing toys/priveledges? I ask because I genuinely don't know.

 

[bellebud]

just wanted to give you a ... getting no sleep is just horrible!

If you think dd3 will puke, get dollar store shower curtains or table cloths and lay them all around her room... your clean up will be SO easy - just throw them out.

hope it gets better for you all!

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

First I just want to say thanks for all the thoughts and kind words. It really helps to know that other people are going through this too (though DH doesn't believe it, he thinks its just us!!)

So heres my report of last night:
IT SUCKED!!!
We put them down @ 7.30 - looking back, it was probally to early since they had actually taken a pretty long nap in the early afternoon, and it was still pretty light in DD3s room, even with the black out curtians. DD3 started crying almost right away (which is unusal, since it normaly starts in the middle of the night) and also woke up DD19m who started crying as well. DH went into DD3 room and offered her a book - YEAH RIGHT! She gave him a strange look, and just handed it right back to him, he left, and she stopped crying, just to start again a few minutes later! Durring DD19m crying, she said "Uh-Oh" several times, so I thought she dropped her binkie on the floor - I was about to go in there to get it for her, but all of the sudden they both stopped crying. That was it for a while - till 11.30 when DD19m started crying again - and also woke up DD3. So because I thought she had lost the binkie, I sent DH in there to give it to her.... it was in her mouth (guess she tricked me!)! We actually did bring her into our bed for a minute because once you go in, she freeks if she sees you leaving (we just have to NOT go in). I don't really remember to much after that.... I know DD3 woke up again at some point in the middle of the night, and also woke up DD19m and they both cried for a bit... no one went into them though, and it stopped. I just feel bad when DD19m cries because she may be teething, and thats just not fair to her - no one wants to be in pain. Tonight before bed I'm going to give her a dose of Tylenol just to be safe. So truthfully, we lost a lot of sleep last night (every time I wake up, it takes me 1 hour + to fall back to sleep no matter what!), but no one woke up till 6am, so that wasn't to bad - better than 4am!! We will see how tonight goes!!! On the bright side, only 28 days till DH & I go on vacation alone..... we will probally be sleeping the whole time!!!

 

[hsmamato2]

DD19m usually wakes up because she has lost her binkie. If I go in and find it for her and then just leave its TOTAL FREEK OUT!!! A few times we have just hlet her cry, and she does get over it (sometimes not), but for the most part we bring her into bed with the tv on for about 5 minutes and then take ehr back. As far as DD3s room, it is pitch black. And yes, I brought her downstairs this morning at 4am (along with DD19m) and DH brought them down yesterday morning at the same time as well. She knows that she has lost drawing and and treats for the next 2 days,

I know it's hard to do...but when you're this beat up, you know you MUST NOT do it again....and it will take a while to convince your dd's that crying will not get them downstairs....b/c it's happened on and off that the screaming worked,it's now 10x harder to teach them it won't. I know....I sound unsympathetic,I'm really not....it's so hard to do!
But it's been proven,if a kid behaves a certain way,and gets a certain result,they'll expect it again. if the behavior nets the desired effect one out of 3 nights,it makes the kiddo try HARDER than before to duplicate the desired result. HARDER. So, sometimes taking them downstairs,and sometimes not is actually making it tougher on you to get them to stay asleep. You and your Dh will; have to agree,or it won;t work either.
You could try training her to stay in her room and amuse herself quietly however you like,if she really is awake,but you need sleep too!
When my ds was 2,he didn't sleep. He stayed up till 2-3 a.m.,and got up again by 7. No naps,and at 15,he's still insanely nocturnal Dh and I taught him to stay in his gated room and play quietly till he was tired....so we could sleep! He learned that we were just no fun at 1 a.m.,and his room full of toys was better company for his racoon-like behavior......

 

[thegrimdwarf]

It actually doesn't sound like things went too badly last night - at least to me, lol. I'll bet things will go easier tonight. Good luck!

 

[eeyoremum]

I am sure I will be flamed. Nobody has mentioned co-sleeping as an alternative. Not for everyone but I never lost a nights sleep and my sons are very good sleepers to this day. They are older now so it has been years since we have co-slept my guys like to sleep with the radio on too. No TVs in rooms, I don't believe in it.

 

[thegrimdwarf]

I am sure I will be flamed. Nobody has mentioned co-sleeping as an alternative. Not for everyone but I never lost a nights sleep and my sons are very good sleepers to this day. They are older now so it has been years since we have co-slept my guys like to sleep with the radio on too. No TVs in rooms, I don't believe in it.

Co-sleeping actually has been mentioned.

 

[cruiserkaren]

First I just want to say thanks for all the thoughts and kind words. It really helps to know that other people are going through this too (though DH doesn't believe it, he thinks its just us!!)

So heres my report of last night:
IT SUCKED!!!
We put them down @ 7.30 - looking back, it was probally to early since they had actually taken a pretty long nap in the early afternoon, and it was still pretty light in DD3s room, even with the black out curtians. DD3 started crying almost right away (which is unusal, since it normaly starts in the middle of the night) and also woke up DD19m who started crying as well. DH went into DD3 room and offered her a book - YEAH RIGHT! She gave him a strange look, and just handed it right back to him, he left, and she stopped crying, just to start again a few minutes later! Durring DD19m crying, she said "Uh-Oh" several times, so I thought she dropped her binkie on the floor - I was about to go in there to get it for her, but all of the sudden they both stopped crying. That was it for a while - till 11.30 when DD19m started crying again - and also woke up DD3. So because I thought she had lost the binkie, I sent DH in there to give it to her.... it was in her mouth (guess she tricked me!)! We actually did bring her into our bed for a minute because once you go in, she freeks if she sees you leaving (we just have to NOT go in). I don't really remember to much after that.... I know DD3 woke up again at some point in the middle of the night, and also woke up DD19m and they both cried for a bit... no one went into them though, and it stopped. I just feel bad when DD19m cries because she may be teething, and thats just not fair to her - no one wants to be in pain. Tonight before bed I'm going to give her a dose of Tylenol just to be safe. So truthfully, we lost a lot of sleep last night (every time I wake up, it takes me 1 hour + to fall back to sleep no matter what!), but no one woke up till 6am, so that wasn't to bad - better than 4am!! We will see how tonight goes!!! On the bright side, only 28 days till DH & I go on vacation alone..... we will probally be sleeping the whole time!!!

I know I mentioned it before but it really sounds like some kind of a noise machine to drown out the other childs cry would be beneficial. That way if one wakes up it doesn't wake the other up. Just throwing that out there again.

Good luck. Oh, and it sounds like whoever is keeping your kids while you and dh go on vacation is very generous, giving up their sleep and all. Make sure you get them a great souvenir/gift! Enjoy your trip (and sleep!), it sounds like you guys need it.

 

[moepanz]

I think it is a personal choice on both accounts. Some people are all for co sleeping others have a big problem with it, same for TV. My 5yr old big problem sleeper has a TV in his room (I posted here before). He still comes into our room in the middle of the night but no longer wakes us up so we are cool with that. So I guess I am a co sleeper/TV supporter. My only problem with co sleeping is if my 2 yr old twins ever caught on that the older one was in our bed it will be an issue. I have a king size bed but I know that 5 of us will not fit

All I can say is my family spent a lot money on books and every other thing on the market to try to get him to sleep thru the night it never worked. He is who he is and that is it. Ferber method was tried for 30 nights in row. That was 4 yrs ago. I know that method has changed and that was the one everyone swore by then. Don't drive yourself crazy you will find a happy medium at some point. Hang in there! It will get better. Maybe not perfect but better.

 

[labdogs42]

He is who he is and that is it. Ferber method was tried for 30 nights in row. That was 4 yrs ago. I know that method has changed and that was the one everyone swore by then. Don't drive yourself crazy you will find a happy medium at some point. Hang in there! It will get better. Maybe not perfect but better.

Wow -- I can't imagine toughing it out for 30 nights! I think I'm at the point of just accepting that my DS isn't a big sleeper. He may never go to bed early. People who have kids that sleep from 8-8 just amaze me!! (sorry to hijack slightly!)

 

[ssmith010]

Lots of good advise. My DD3 is driving me up a wall. Every night is a battle and she is not a happy camper in the am. I trying to change what she eats. I do the bedtime routine but after we are done with bath, teeth, book, and prayers the battle begins. She wakes up about 5x a night. So I intend to read and learn.

 

[graygables]

We put them down @ 7.30 - looking back, it was probally to early since they had actually taken a pretty long nap in the early afternoon

Please remember that some children just don't need that much sleep. I have never, EVER put my girls to bed before 830-9pm and that was even when they had given up napping at 12-18mo. If you try to put a child down when they are nowhere near tired, you won't get anything but objections and struggle. Why go to bed if you aren't sleepy? Our routine at those ages for my older 3 consisted of tooth brush/jammie time, then it was quietly reading ONE story/snuggles in their room, and off to sleep in their bed with 2 songs (my version of "I Love You Forever" and "La La Lu" from Lady and the Tramp). By that time, they were tired, sleepy, and relaxed. They might get a little back-patting or forehead rubbing along with a reminder that they are NOT to make any noise unless they had to go potty. The rules were they could get up to play or read IN THEIR ROOMS if they wanted, but they were NOT to disturb anyone else.

Try putting them down later and with very little stimulation and a soothing routine.

 

[momtwo4]

First huge to you. Sleep deprivation is the pitts!

I would invest in two white noise machines, one for each of your DD's rooms, so they can sleep thru the others crying.

Then I would stick with the cry it out approach you have already started. If you don't back down, it will get better. My DS5 was my tough one waking at night, but as long as we stuck with it he "got it" and how wonderful it was. And as far as DD dropping her pacifier, well I can't help you with that one. DS's thumb is attached so he never lost that. (oh how I wish he would now!)

Good Luck