Orange County Fl may lift mask mandate by June

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Yes, you are correct. Testing is abysmal in Florida, and the current positivity rate of 9.5% in FL vs. 1% in CA, shows the true numbers in Florida are much higher than what the numbers say (currently even with the crap testing, FL has an absolute case rate double that of CA and 4x per capita). Also, CA is opening up (not fully opened, "what pandemic" mantra that FL adopted), but indoor dining is back, theme parks are opened, and the state looks to be fully open with a mask mandate in June.

It would be a PR nightmare for Disney for there to be no masks required in FL where case rates/variant transmission is much higher, and fully masked in CA that is in a way better situation. How do you explain that? Disney will follow CDC guidance.. until they say masks are optional, don't count on WDW changing their requirements.

Kids for the most part haven't been in school in CA. They have 100% been in school in Florida since the school year started and in many cases without masks at all. Indoor dining has been going on since last June (at the level CA just entered) and in September had no restrictions on bars and restaurants. I mean Disneyland isn't even open yet. Have you been to Florida, doesn't sound like it. I have been to both Florida and CA, CA is and has been way more 'locked down'.

It easy to compare numbers, per/1M pop. FL and CA are roughly the same on cases and deaths.

By your logic it should have be a PR nightmare that WDW opened with "variant/transmission is much higher and fully masked CA in a "way better situation" yet CA hasn't open Disneyland in a year. It turns out it was not a PR nightmare at all that Disney World has been open all this time.
 
Kids for the most part haven't been in school in CA. They have 100% been in school in Florida since the school year started and in many cases without masks at all. Indoor dining has been going on since last June (at the level CA just entered) and in September had no restrictions on bars and restaurants. I mean Disneyland isn't even open yet. Have you been to Florida, doesn't sound like it. I have been to both Florida and CA, CA is and has been way more 'locked down'.

It easy to compare numbers, per/1M pop. FL and CA are roughly the same on cases and deaths.

By your logic it should have be a PR nightmare that WDW opened with "variant/transmission is much higher and fully masked CA in a "way better situation" yet CA hasn't open Disneyland in a year. It turns out it was not a PR nightmare at all that Disney World has been open all this time.
Ummm.. over-react/draw incorrect assumptions much? I have tons of family in Florida, have been nearly every summer my entire life, a past Premier holder, etc etc, so yeah I know what I am talking about and have been to Florida. Florida (Desantis) has basically acted like there wasn't a pandemic like I said earlier with testing extremely difficult to come by (hence the continued high positivity rate), CA has been way more cautious, but we are not closed right now like you stated. You are trying to twist my words... the whole point is WDW is not going to give up masks completely without the CDC's recommendation/reaching herd immunity. They can cram more people in with keeping masks, and it costs them nothing. People will still come despite masks in the short term.
 
Ummm.. over-react/draw incorrect assumptions much? I have tons of family in Florida, have been nearly every summer my entire life, a past Premier holder, etc etc, so yeah I know what I am talking about and have been to Florida. Florida (Desantis) has basically acted like there wasn't a pandemic like I said earlier with testing extremely difficult to come by (hence the continued high positivity rate), CA has been way more cautious, but we are not closed right now like you stated. You are trying to twist my words... the whole point is WDW is not going to give up masks completely without the CDC's recommendation/reaching herd immunity. They can cram more people in with keeping masks, and it costs them nothing. People will still come despite masks in the short term.

What 'assumption' is incorrect? I was just asking have you been to Florida since the pandemic was the question as we are talking about the pandemic. I couldn't care less about mask mandates either/or at this point, that discussion is moot they will be gone sooner than later in WDW regardless and also in CA.
 


IMO, like any other company, Disney will follow CDC recommendations, but only to a point.

Opinions about mask-wearing seem to follow a bell curve (like many things do) - you have a small number of people who are adamant about mask use, and will probably continue to wear them even when most other people don't. And then you have a small number of people who will absolutely not wear a mask, even to the point of physical altercations about it.

But, the biggest number of people are in the middle of the bell - who range from mild annoyance with masks to people who wear them because it's the "right thing to do". What is going to happen - because we are already seeing it - is the the middle of the bell curve will shift more and more toward the "I hate masks" side of the bell as vaccinations ramp up. We don't know how quickly this will happen, but inevitably, at some point most people are going to not going to want to wear a mask anymore - probably around the time that most people are vaccinated and cases are relatively low.

At that point, when mask tolerance is very low, WDW will need to decide whether to continue their mask policy, and probably lose a significant amount of business to other vacation spots who have dropped their mask mandates.

WDW is a major vacation draw - if they hold on to their mask mandates longer than other vacation destinations, then I'm guessing that we will see a major marketing campaign from smaller vacation destinations who usually compete with Disney, that they are mask-free and Disney is not.
 
IMO, like any other company, Disney will follow CDC recommendations, but only to a point.

Opinions about mask-wearing seem to follow a bell curve (like many things do) - you have a small number of people who are adamant about mask use, and will probably continue to wear them even when most other people don't. And then you have a small number of people who will absolutely not wear a mask, even to the point of physical altercations about it.

But, the biggest number of people are in the middle of the bell - who range from mild annoyance with masks to people who wear them because it's the "right thing to do". What is going to happen - because we are already seeing it - is the the middle of the bell curve will shift more and more toward the "I hate masks" side of the bell as vaccinations ramp up. We don't know how quickly this will happen, but inevitably, at some point most people are going to not going to want to wear a mask anymore - probably around the time that most people are vaccinated and cases are relatively low.

At that point, when mask tolerance is very low, WDW will need to decide whether to continue their mask policy, and probably lose a significant amount of business to other vacation spots who have dropped their mask mandates.

WDW is a major vacation draw - if they hold on to their mask mandates longer than other vacation destinations, then I'm guessing that we will see a major marketing campaign from smaller vacation destinations who usually compete with Disney, that they are mask-free and Disney is not.

Masks being optional outdoors almost got me to go to Legoland a month ago. it is assuredly a factor in deciding where to go for vacations, maybe the top factor. Vaccinations are going to help move that curve even more like you said.
 
IMO, like any other company, Disney will follow CDC recommendations, but only to a point.

Opinions about mask-wearing seem to follow a bell curve (like many things do) - you have a small number of people who are adamant about mask use, and will probably continue to wear them even when most other people don't. And then you have a small number of people who will absolutely not wear a mask, even to the point of physical altercations about it.

But, the biggest number of people are in the middle of the bell - who range from mild annoyance with masks to people who wear them because it's the "right thing to do". What is going to happen - because we are already seeing it - is the the middle of the bell curve will shift more and more toward the "I hate masks" side of the bell as vaccinations ramp up. We don't know how quickly this will happen, but inevitably, at some point most people are going to not going to want to wear a mask anymore - probably around the time that most people are vaccinated and cases are relatively low.

At that point, when mask tolerance is very low, WDW will need to decide whether to continue their mask policy, and probably lose a significant amount of business to other vacation spots who have dropped their mask mandates.

WDW is a major vacation draw - if they hold on to their mask mandates longer than other vacation destinations, then I'm guessing that we will see a major marketing campaign from smaller vacation destinations who usually compete with Disney, that they are mask-free and Disney is not.

If cases continued to decline or stay at a plateau, I would agree with you. However, in the northern Midwest, we're dealing with new surges due to the UK variant. It's more readily spread among children, and there are outbreaks from schools. Look at the positive case numbers in Michigan. Hospitalizations are increasing throughout the state, too. This UK variant is currently causing problems like this in the northern Midwest and parts of New England, but it's going to affect other states the same soon :( Get vaccinated when you can, everybody

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If cases continued to decline or stay at a plateau, I would agree with you. However, in the northern Midwest, we're dealing with new surges due to the UK variant. It's more readily spread among children, and there are outbreaks from schools. Look at the positive case numbers in Michigan. Hospitalizations are increasing throughout the state, too. This UK variant is currently causing problems like this in the northern Midwest and parts of New England, but it's going to affect other states the same soon :( Get vaccinated when you can, everybody

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Oh, I completely agree with you, but the New York Times just ran an opinion piece on Michigan's Covid surge. The piece mostly focuses on why the governor of Michigan is not imposing any more lockdowns - because, in the author's opinion, that the citizens of Michigan are so sick of Covid restrictions, that many people would likely just ignore the new restrictions anyway.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...chen-whitmer-in-a-bind/ar-BB1fvhHh?li=BBnb7Kz
That was exactly my point - more and more as time goes on, even the average, middle-of-the-bell-curve person, is getting sick of restrictions, especially masks. And I think that will catch up to WDW sooner than later.
 
If cases continued to decline or stay at a plateau, I would agree with you. However, in the northern Midwest, we're dealing with new surges due to the UK variant. It's more readily spread among children, and there are outbreaks from schools. Look at the positive case numbers in Michigan. Hospitalizations are increasing throughout the state, too. This UK variant is currently causing problems like this in the northern Midwest and parts of New England, but it's going to affect other states the same soon :( Get vaccinated when you can, everybody

View attachment 567725
The cause of the Michigan "surge" is not known at this time, the reasons you stated might be true but are just conjecture at this time. the good news notice deaths are nowhere near as high as when the levels were this high in the last peak. It is not clear at all that it is spread more by children with the uk variant. Florida has one of the highest amount of spread of the UK variant and has a bunch of kids. I guess the variant just is dangerous to Michigan kids?
 
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The cause of the Michigan "surge" is not known at this time, the reasons you stated might be true but are just conjecture at this time. the good news notice deaths are nowhere near as high as when the levels were this high in the last peak. It is not clear at all that it is spread more by children with the uk variant. Florida has one of the highest amount of spread of the UK variant and has a bunch of kids. I guess the variant just is dangerous to Michigan kids?

The public health experts say it is because of the new variant, the spread is largely driven by young people, and outbreaks are happening at schools.
More info (article from the Milwaukee Journal): https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...est-covid-19-surge-wisconsin-next/7158707002/

"Public health experts say the presence of highly infectious variants, outbreaks among schools and sporting teams and pandemic fatigue are to blame."

and

"The number of confirmed cases among the oldest age group — those 80 and up — rose just 1% from March 1 to April 7, according to data from DHS. But they jumped by 6% for children below age 9."

And, sadly, look at the increase in hospitalizations among children and young adults:
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Your quotes are the reporters words. All experts actually say "may" , "seem to" "could be", even the head of the CDC says they don't know.

The numbers you show are playing fast on lose with that state, note they are all percentages

yes there is a surge in new cases but most are not children by far.

Plus your graph is of Wisconsin not Michigan.

I don't look at data by any news organization, reporters often do not even understand what they are writing and write to get clicks.

Look at Wisconsin which is what your graph is from, and the increase in young adults and children that is so "worrisome"

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/cases.htm
in Wisconsin there have been only 271 cases of 0-9 year olds hospitalized with covid total/ever , zero deaths in that age group. Again that is EVER. There are currently only on average 7-12 regular cases day of that age group, not hospitalized, just cases. So the real numbers are very very small. You probably could count on one hand the number of age 0-9 kids causing an increase of 6% of hospitalized patients over the past month or so.

It is all perspective. There are around 800,000 kids in that age group in Wisconsin.
 
Does anyone know how much cheaper it is to stay here if buying an annual pass for one adult for October 28-30? I just booked with tickets (buy 2 day get 2 day free park to park) and room and came to $2060. Wondering if I should invest in an annual pass to get the discount but don’t know how to go about figuring the math out.
 
Does anyone know how much cheaper it is to stay here if buying an annual pass for one adult for October 28-30? I just booked with tickets (buy 2 day get 2 day free park to park) and room and came to $2060. Wondering if I should invest in an annual pass to get the discount but don’t know how to go about figuring the math out.
AP room discounts haven't been released past july 10 so there's no way to know if it would be worth it right now.
 
Does anyone know how much cheaper it is to stay here if buying an annual pass for one adult for October 28-30? I just booked with tickets (buy 2 day get 2 day free park to park) and room and came to $2060. Wondering if I should invest in an annual pass to get the discount but don’t know how to go about figuring the math out.
Can’t get aps yet
 
Your quotes are the reporters words. All experts actually say "may" , "seem to" "could be", even the head of the CDC says they don't know.


That isn't what the article says at all. Here is an actual quote from the article:

"In Michigan, young people are clearly driving the surge, growing tired of precautions and more vulnerable to the new variant. Youth sporting events and school-based outbreaks have been major culprits."

You quoted single words out of context. They said it "'appears' to be a perfect storm," because the variant is spreading in Michigan right when mask laws were relaxed. Here's what they say next about how masks are more imperative than ever:

"The B.1.1.7, first spotted in the U.K. in September, is a mutated version of coronavirus that's better at attaching to human cells and may be able to cause an infection with a smaller army of viral particles. As a result, smaller slip-ups in masking and social distancing can have more severe consequences.

"'You’re talking about a virus that’s more efficient,' Sethi said. 'Masks have to be used.'"

Ajay Sethi is an epidemiologist and professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
 
in Wisconsin there have been only 271 cases of 0-9 year olds hospitalized with covid total/ever , zero deaths in that age group. Again that is EVER. There are currently only on average 7-12 regular cases day of that age group, not hospitalized, just cases. So the real numbers are very very small. You probably could count on one hand the number of age 0-9 kids causing an increase of 6% of hospitalized patients over the past month or so.

It is all perspective. There are around 800,000 kids in that age group in Wisconsin.

And yes, children are less likely to be hospitalized and die from the virus, but they are increasingly able to spread it (to each other and to others). If you read more of that article, it says that schools in Wisconsin are being investigated for more outbreaks than any other facility type now (including prisons and nursing homes). Children are becoming primary spreaders when they weren't before. They also cannot be vaccinated right now. It makes no sense to lift the mask mandate at a theme park that attracts many children from all over the country and world.

According to a New York Times article:
"Until recently, the [UK] variant’s rise was somewhat camouflaged by falling rates of infection over all, lulling Americans into a false sense of security and leading to prematurely relaxed restrictions, researchers say."

and also:
"'Several factors are driving up case reports in Minnesota, she [Sara Vetter, director of the Minnesota Health Department’s Public Health Laboratory] said. One is people not following public health guidelines. Another is the spread of the B.1.1.7 variant.'"
(That's the UK variant.)

and also:
"Dr. Ruth Lynfield, a state epidemiologist, said there had been a notable rise in cases over all in people ages 10 to 19. [...] 'It’s a race of vaccine against variants,' Dr. Lynfield said. 'People really need to work hard and be patient, and continue to wear masks and continue to socially distance.'”

To me, it sounds like the experts are quite clear. The new variant is making COVID-19 more contagious, children are increasingly becoming spreaders, and the last thing we should do is relax our masking and social distancing practices. You are trying to make it sound like the experts don't know anything and are unsure, but that just isn't true. Their message is quite clear: Keep wearing a mask and keep social distancing.
 
In other news . . .
Florida has become the first state to surpass 3,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19 variants, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
No other state has even 2,000 variant cases and only two (Michigan and Minnesota) have reached 1,000.
The CDC’s latest data shows 3,191 cases of the U.K. (B.1.1.7) strain, up from 2,351 in the previous numbers from the end of last week.
In addition, Florida has found 64 cases of the Brazilian (P.1) variant (up from 55) and 24 cases of the South African (B.1.351) strain (up from 16). FWIW
And.....variants aren't increasing hospitalizations to the point of breaking, that should be the focus. We are in a much better place than a year ago.
 
And yes, children are less likely to be hospitalized and die from the virus, but they are increasingly able to spread it (to each other and to others). If you read more of that article, it says that schools in Wisconsin are being investigated for more outbreaks than any other facility type now (including prisons and nursing homes). Children are becoming primary spreaders when they weren't before. They also cannot be vaccinated right now. It makes no sense to lift the mask mandate at a theme park that attracts many children from all over the country and world.

According to a New York Times article:
"Until recently, the [UK] variant’s rise was somewhat camouflaged by falling rates of infection over all, lulling Americans into a false sense of security and leading to prematurely relaxed restrictions, researchers say."

and also:
"'Several factors are driving up case reports in Minnesota, she [Sara Vetter, director of the Minnesota Health Department’s Public Health Laboratory] said. One is people not following public health guidelines. Another is the spread of the B.1.1.7 variant.'"
(That's the UK variant.)

and also:
"Dr. Ruth Lynfield, a state epidemiologist, said there had been a notable rise in cases over all in people ages 10 to 19. [...] 'It’s a race of vaccine against variants,' Dr. Lynfield said. 'People really need to work hard and be patient, and continue to wear masks and continue to socially distance.'”

To me, it sounds like the experts are quite clear. The new variant is making COVID-19 more contagious, children are increasingly becoming spreaders, and the last thing we should do is relax our masking and social distancing practices. You are trying to make it sound like the experts don't know anything and are unsure, but that just isn't true. Their message is quite clear: Keep wearing a mask and keep social distancing.
I guess that is true if you are willing to believe the NY Times. Fear mongering from the beginning. Gather real research from mulitple sources, then decide. I don't understand if you have many concerns, just hold off on travel.
 
"If you're truly concerned, hold off on travel until you feel safer."
Honestly, this is the correct thought process. ^ I'm tired of the media blowing everything out of proportion so they can sell ad space and get eyeballs on screens. I trust VERY LITTLE of what I see on the news these days.

I'm a young healthy vaccinated person with no children; my risk tolerance is higher than many people. I've had no issues with going out to dinner, traveling for Holidays, visiting family, and shopping throughout the last few months (wearing a mask, because my state mandates it.)

If I were truly worried or high-risk, I would have stayed home. That would be my recommendation to those still worried about getting COVID at Disney.
 
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