Old Navy Debuts Gay Pride T-Shirts For It Gets Better

[Queen2PrincessG]

I get why Old Navy did this and I really like the sentiment behind it but I can't see any of my gay friends wearing these. They don't view themselves as different/special though.

Same thing with the GAP RED promotion. The only people I've know to wear them would never consider donating time or effort to help a cause. They just want everyone to know that they're in with the cause. They think wearing a silly shirt does that.

My husband bought the black and red chucks for Gap Red. Gap Red is a very good cause and 50% goes to the cause.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

if your child was gay, would it be a high priority to you then?

nope!

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

You would understand what the big deal was if you were not allowed to get married.

No, please explain. No piece of paper would make me love my husband any more that I do. I don't need it to validate my relationship as something that is real and correct.
I'm trying to understand you POV.

 

[RainbowBrite]

No, please explain. No piece of paper would make me love my husband any more that I do. I don't need it to validate my relationship as something that is real and correct.
I'm trying to understand you POV.

Why is it important for anyone to get married? If it isn't important to get a piece of paper stating that you are legally married then why does anyone do it? I wanted to be able to have my wife's last name. I wanted to be able to be on her health insurance and vice versa. I wanted to never ever have to worry about not being allowed to make medical decisions if anything should happen to her. Heck, I wanted to be allowed to see her in the hospital. Why should I need to defend my reasons for wanting a legal marriage just like yours? If legal marriage is so unimportant why did you get married then?

 

[Uncle Remus]

No, please explain. No piece of paper would make me love my husband any more that I do. I don't need it to validate my relationship as something that is real and correct.
I'm trying to understand you POV.

It's the legal rights that accompany your heterosexual marriage.

Here's just some of those rights: http://www.hrc.org/issues/5517.htm

 

[jlewisinsyr]

No, please explain. No piece of paper would make me love my husband any more that I do. I don't need it to validate my relationship as something that is real and correct.
I'm trying to understand you POV.

Marriage isn't about love as it is about ensuring your legal protections and obligations to each other. My partner and I have been together for almost 10 years, I don't need a marriage certificate to prove that or prove our love.

However, I would like to be offered the same legal protections (and obligations) that a married couple is afforded (ie. visitation at hospital, automatic pass through off assets upon death, non-taxable transfer of retirement funds, social security pass through, first decision on organ donation, joint tax returns, etc.). Those are the things that matter to me and that I feel I am currently not able to provide (some things can be solved through living wills, but tax law cannot).

 

[Uncle Remus]

Marriage isn't about love as it is about ensuring your legal protections and obligations to each other. My partner and I have been together for almost 10 years, I don't need a marriage certificate to prove that or prove our love.

However, I would like to be offered the same legal protections (and obligations) that a married couple is afforded (ie. visitation at hospital, automatic pass through off assets upon death, non-taxable transfer of retirement funds, social security pass through, first decision on organ donation, joint tax returns, etc.). Those are the things that matter to me and that I feel I am currently not able to provide (some things can be solved through living wills, but tax law cannot).

I was with my deceased partner for 20 years, we jumped thru all kinds of hoops that a legally recognized marriage would have alleviated 'n yes, some things ya just can't cover legally.

 

[RainbowBrite]

I was with my deceased partner for 20 years, we jumped thru all kinds of hoops that a legally recognized marriage would have alleviated 'n yes, some things ya just can't cover legally.

To anyone struggling to understand, I suggest they watch If These Walls Could Talk 2.

 

[Uncle Remus]

To anyone struggling to understand, I suggest they watch If These Walls Could Talk 2.

I like the way you say anyone strugglin' to understand, heck, they oughta just put themselves in our position, course, I don't think they realize just how many rights 'n privileges they take for granted.

 

[jrmasm]

No, please explain. No piece of paper would make me love my husband any more that I do. I don't need it to validate my relationship as something that is real and correct.
I'm trying to understand you POV.

Then why are you married?

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I'm not quite sure why I'm married. I guess because I like parties.
It meant a lot to my husband and I was fine with it as long as it was not in a church.

Seems like most of it just comes down to money and taxes.

 

[tlbwriter]

State recognizes it then what? You get to pay taxes together? what doesn't it really mean? (i'm not being sarcastic here I'm really looking for an answer because i don't understand what the big deal is.)

I'm not sure if you're really that naive or if you're just trying to make a point, but here are a few things it "really means."

• If you're married, you automatically inherit your spouse's assets on death and do not have to pay estate taxes.
• If you're married, you have the right to visit your spouse in the hospital and to make decisions about their care if they are unable to make them.
• If you're married, and your spouse is not a citizen, they get to stay in the country with you.
• If you're married, and your employer offers insurance coverage for dependents, you can cover your spouse.
• If you're married, you are eligible to collect on your spouse's Social Security, as well as other pensions.
• If you're married, and one of you gives birth to a child, your spouse doesn't have to adopt it in order to legally be considered its parent. Oh, and the spouse who doesn't give birth to the baby is eligible for paternity leave under FMLA.

Some of these things are available in "civil unions," but not all of them, and many people do not have a "civil union" as an option. So stop kidding yourself about a marriage license being just a "piece of paper." It is a very important legal tool.

 

[tlbwriter]

Seems like most of it just comes down to money and taxes.

No, it doesn't. But even if that was the case, I suspect you'd think it was a pretty big deal if it affected you. Like, if it was based on race instead of sexual orientation.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

No, it doesn't. But even if that was the case, I suspect you'd think it was a pretty big deal if it affected you. Like, if it was based on race instead of sexual orientation.

Bingo.

 

[RainbowBrite]

No, it doesn't. But even if that was the case, I suspect you'd think it was a pretty big deal if it affected you. Like, if it was based on race instead of sexual orientation.

If it was decided tomorrow that all blondes couldn't get married, or all people with brown eyes, etc. I'm sure the world would be singing a very different tune.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm not quite sure why I'm married. I guess because I like parties.
It meant a lot to my husband and I was fine with it as long as it was not in a church.

Seems like most of it just comes down to money and taxes.

What's with the rolley eyes? It was a serious question.

Does your husband share your opinion that it's not a big deal if other's can't legally marry? I'm not implying that married couples have to agree on all issues, I'm just curious.

 

[tlbwriter]

If it was decided tomorrow that all blondes couldn't get married, or all people with brown eyes, etc. I'm sure the world would be singing a very different tune.

Nah, they'd decide not to be blonde. It's as easy as deciding not to be gay.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I get why Old Navy did this and I really like the sentiment behind it but I can't see any of my gay friends wearing these. They don't view themselves as different/special though.
Same thing with the GAP RED promotion. The only people I've know to wear them would never consider donating time or effort to help a cause. They just want everyone to know that they're in with the cause. They think wearing a silly shirt does that.

Bingo (to bolded part). I also agree that people wearing a shirt (or thanking a soldier) aren't really part of the solution. If they believe in a cause then they should get involved, not just give lip service or buy a token and say they're 'doing their part'.

Agreed but let's stand back and look at the BIG picture:
Basic human right that is vital
Housing VS Gay Marriage
Appropriate education VS gay marriage
Health Care VS gay marriage

Gay marriage as much of a "human right" as some want to call it, it is not the most important one right now. There are some serious issues going on in this country at the moment I personally don't feel like gay marraige is high on the priority list. It's there but just not high to me. Could we possibly fix the things that are REALLLy tearing this country apart and then work on Gay Unions or coupling or whatever it will be called? Marriage is not a right. Saying marriage is a "human right" seems weird to me because your union to your spouse is between you and them. No states recognition makes it valid or even invalid.

Agreed. I'm more interested in the issues that are affecting the majority of Americans who are sliding, or have already slid, into poverty. Whether or not Gay Americans can marry seems a very trite point to me when looking at this "richest country in the world" rifled through with third-world pockets in every state, city and village and people dying every day because of it.

Solve the bad economy issue,
then solve the health care issue,
then solve the infrastructure issue,
then solve the housing issue,
then solve the education issue (which hopefully would have been solved in the economic issue),
THEN revisit the Gay Marriage issue.

Because the bad economy, enormous health care problems, a crumbling infrastructure and low education levels truly affect a heck of a lot more people every single day than the lack of marriage affects the Gay population.

And, Gay or Straight, if you don't have a job, don't have affordable health care, your highways are falling apart, the bridge you cross every day might just kill you, there are rolling blackouts and you can't afford decent housing, then getting married will likely be at the bottom of your survival list anyway.

It's all a moot point. It seems this was just a marketing ploy by Old Navy and they're not really selling the shirts anyway. They just wanted to look 'hip' by appealing to the fad.

Or maybe the amount of people who said they'd boycott made them change their minds about selling them. Kind of a "Lose the shirts or you'll lose YOUR shirts" deal. Who knows? Tempest in a teacup really.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Because the bad economy, enormous health care problems, a crumbling infrastructure and low education levels truly affect a heck of a lot more people every single day than the lack of marriage affects the Gay population.

And, Gay or Straight, if you don't have a job, don't have affordable health care, your highways are falling apart, the bridge you cross every day might just kill you, there are rolling blackouts and you can't afford decent housing, then getting married will likely be at the bottom of your survival list anyway.

If a same-sex couple could be married, they may not have issues with health care, because they could be covered by their partners. They might not have to deal as much with poverty because they could receive a transfer of assets if their partner passes away. They might be able to get affordable housing because they wouldn't be discriminated against for being a same sex couple.

There will never be the "right" time for anything if we follow your logic. There will always be a bigger fish to fry. If our politicians can only cover one major event, then they're not doing their job, things are not an either or situation.

It's all a moot point. It seems this was just a marketing ploy by Old Navy and they're not really selling the shirts anyway. They just wanted to look 'hip' by appealing to the fad.

One's sexuality is not a fad, it may be marketed different ways, but it does not make it a fad.

Or maybe the amount of people who said they'd boycott made them change their minds about selling them. Kind of a "Lose the shirts or you'll lose YOUR shirts" deal. Who knows? Tempest in a teacup really.

Highly unlikely, but if that is what lets you sleep at night, more power to you.

 

[tlbwriter]

Agreed. I'm more interested in the issues that are affecting the majority of Americans who are sliding, or have already slid, into poverty. Whether or not Gay Americans can marry seems a very trite point to me when looking at this "richest country in the world" rifled through with third-world pockets in every state, city and village and people dying every day because of it.

It's very easy to consider an issue "trite" when it doesn't concern you.

Solve the bad economy issue,
then solve the health care issue,
then solve the infrastructure issue,
then solve the housing issue,
then solve the education issue (which hopefully would have been solved in the economic issue),
THEN revisit the Gay Marriage issue.

It's going to take time and money to solve all of these issues. Should we let every other issue sit on the back burner waiting for these to be solved? Or is it only same sex marriage that you think should be pushed aside until the U.S. has no "more important" issues? If we had followed your logic, we would still be waiting for civil rights and women's suffrage.

And, Gay or Straight, if you don't have a job, don't have affordable health care, your highways are falling apart, the bridge you cross every day might just kill you, there are rolling blackouts and you can't afford decent housing, then getting married will likely be at the bottom of your survival list anyway.

Hmmm. How much would it cost to allow same sex marriage? Why would it make any of these issues worse? It might actually make some of them better (i.e., affordable health care).