OKW Extension Papers & Lockout Mentioned

[NY Pirate Princess]

See, I don’t see those owners any different than anyone who owns and then sells. Yoy are paying for future expenses even when you may no longer own.

The 2042 OKW contracts being bought now are bought with the stipulation that you give it back to DVD in 2042, even though the contract goes to 2057.

Now, I am sure people might complain and it’s very possible it will be handled with different dues amount. And maybe these will be treated the same way.

But, at least IMO, those owners are completely different than someone who hasn’t signed away their rights.

I see your point but I see it differently.

Beach club contract owners, for example, won't be expected to pay for costs beyond January 2042 to reserves or for capital improvements. Disney can't ask 2042 resort owners to pay for the flip or demo of resorts that occurs after lease is up. Why should OKW 2042 owners?

I agree that original owners that didn't sign the quit claim deeds are completely different than resale buyers. I am speaking specifically about resale buyers which, by our nature, can't expect anything after January 2042.

 

[Sandisw]

I see your point but I see it differently.

Beach club contract owners, for example, won't be expected to pay for costs beyond January 2042 to reserves or for capital improvements. Disney can't ask 2042 resort owners to pay for the flip or demo of resorts that occurs after lease is up. Why should OKW 2042 owners?

I agree that original owners that didn't sign the quit claim deeds are completely different than resale buyers. I am speaking specifically about resale buyers which, by our nature, can't expect anything after January 2042.

They can’t expect to pay dues beyond it. But whether or not they are entitled to a refund of costs charged during their ownership?

It’s one thing for the other 2042 because the ground lease ends in 2042. No one still owns the timeshare units. They cease to exist.

That’s not what happens with OKW. Someone who bought a contract has their ownership expire in 2042 but that unit and those points exist through 2057.

It’s just that DVD becomes the owner because the original owner agreed to give it back to them via a quit claim.

It’s why it seems different and why I believe it could end up being treated differently. Same reason I think there is a chance some people end up getting use of their unit until 2057 for the cost of dues.

Now, this is also why there is no way DVD is going to try any level of extension with other resorts.

They now have the trust that can easily take in those properties in 2042, be sold immediately and renovated in chunks at the same time.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

You can’t buy a 2042 contract resale without the seller, or a previous seller, having given up their right already to the extension.

Basically, an original owner of a 2042 contract can not sell it without signing the quit claim deed.

I'm not questioning that you have to sign the quit claim when selling but what gives them the ability to force it? What if the seller says no? Does the sale just fall through?

 

[The Jackal]

I'm not questioning that you have to sign the quit claim when selling but what gives them the ability to force it? What if the seller says no? Does the sale just fall through?

Yes. In order to sell your 2042 OKW, if you do not sign the quit claim. You are unable to sell it.

 

[Dean]

I'm not questioning that you have to sign the quit claim when selling but what gives them the ability to force it? What if the seller says no? Does the sale just fall through?

They make ROFR conditional on signing it. As I read the POS I'm not sure they actually have that authority but by the time you argue with them, you'd lose the sale at best. If selling arms length it wouldn't matter to the seller anyway.

 

[chazas]

Yes. In order to sell your 2042 OKW, if you do not sign the quit claim. You are unable to sell it.

That legally just doesn't seem like it can be the right answer. Disney can either exercise ROFR or let it go - don't they have 30 days only? There can't be an option to just refuse to permit the resale.

EDIT: Did a little googling. This is weird. Disney and the brokers seem to have implemented a process not contemplated by the actual DVC terms where the brokers submit proposed sales for waiver, but without specify a closing date. If you specify a closing date at least 30 days in advance Disney has to waive or exercise by that closing date. If I had an OKW 2042 contract I wanted to sell without the waiver I'd insist it be submitted under the official process.

 

[CastAStone]

That legally just doesn't seem like it can be the right answer. Disney can either exercise ROFR or let it go - don't they have 30 days only? There can't be an option to just refuse to permit the resale.

EDIT: Did a little googling. This is weird. Disney and the brokers seem to have implemented a process not contemplated by the actual DVC terms where the brokers submit proposed sales for waiver, but without specify a closing date. If you specify a closing date at least 30 days in advance Disney has to waive or exercise by that closing date. If I had an OKW 2042 contract I wanted to sell without the waiver I'd insist it be submitted under the official process.

Yes. DVC got way behind during post-Covid and clearly gave brokers some sort of threat/ultimatum that they better stop submitting 30 day closings (because if they did and Disney didn’t respond by closing date/day 30, in theory Disney had waived ROFR).

It however had nothing to do with quit claims. They can do that just by threatening to ROFR every contract that doesn’t comply. But like was noted above, the seller is selling, so what do they care anyway?

 

[chazas]

Yes. DVC got way behind during post-Covid and clearly gave brokers some sort of threat/ultimatum that they better stop submitting 30 day closings (because if they did and Disney didn’t respond by closing date/day 30, in theory Disney had waived ROFR).

It however had nothing to do with quit claims. They can do that just by threatening to ROFR every contract that doesn’t comply. But like was noted above, the seller is selling, so what do they care anyway?

I don’t think they would care. So odd that Disney was able to force this change.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think they would care. So odd that Disney was able to force this change.

DVD decided they wanted to extend the resort and so they did it on their own. It’s possible they figured that most owners would either pay or sign the quit claim.

That didn’t happen, but once they legally changed the ground lease, it was a done deal and they were stuck. That’s why I don’t see them ever doing it again

 

[tom1944]

If I owned a 2042 contract and did not buy the extension what is my recourse if in February 2042, I go to book a room and it shows I have zero points?

I am also guessing that every OKW 2042 contract now sold is not subject to any dispute regarding 2042/2057.

 

[Sandisw]

If I owned a 2042 contract and did not buy the extension what is my recourse if in February 2042, I go to book a room and it shows I have zero points?

I am also guessing that every OKW 2042 contract now sold is not subject to any dispute regarding 2042/2057.

All 2042 contracts that are sold end in 2042 because a quit claim deed has been filed giving it back to Disney on that date…

So, there is no dispute. The owners who can dispute things are those original owners, or their heirs, who still own and never signed away their rights to use until 2057, which is now the legal ending date of the association .

Some like me believe they have a case, and others don’t. Of course, it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. But, even those that might have a case, might not want to spend the money to fight it if DVD decides to lock people out.

IMO, I think they may simply let people keep and use and pay dues, because at that point, it may not be worth it for them to worry.

 

[ClaraOswald]

I'd be pretty pissed if I was one of the people who paid to extend and then others skirted the system in order to get 15 years without the upcharge.

If a contract ends on January 31st, 2042....do the owners pay dues for 2042 or not? (Owners at any 2042 resorts, not just OKW.)

 

[Dean]

I'd be pretty pissed if I was one of the people who paid to extend and then others skirted the system in order to get 15 years without the upcharge.

If a contract ends on January 31st, 2042....do the owners pay dues for 2042 or not? (Owners at any 2042 resorts, not just OKW.)

I don't disagree and maybe they'll figure it out. I suspect the total number of people who might end up in that situation is very small. DVC will likely coerce and/or bully the majority of those left into signing. However, contracts don't actually end in 2042, they just change owners. All contracts are actually extended until 2057. Their previously stated leverage was to levy a Special Assessment to anyone who didn't sign or purchase but as I read the POS, they don't have the ability to do so for this purpose though they do for other situations. The problem isn't as much how they did this for OKW but rather the fact they tied the ending date to the land lease.

 

[MyDogTink]

Ok. Stupid questions:

- what happens with the other resorts in 2042. Do owners’ rights just expire or do they need to complete paperwork around that time?

- what happened to OKW members who didn’t elect either option? Did they get locked out in 2008 from using their membership?

 

[Sandisw]

Ok. Stupid questions:

- what happens with the other resorts in 2042. Do owners’ rights just expire or do they need to complete paperwork around that time?

- what happened to OKW members who didn’t elect either option? Did they get locked out in 2008 from using their membership?

As of right now, yes, when the 2042 resorts end, that’s it. O there is no. Ore resort and owners are no longer owners. The property goes back to DVD.

Now, we have no idea how DVD will handle the sunsetting of the resorts so that part is a wait and see.

For the people who did neither, there was some pushback by Disney on those owners, and some reported being told they had to sign when they showed up for a reservation. Disney eventually back off those efforts, and I can’t remember why…I was just getting into researching DVC at that time.

But, in 2042, DVD is going to have to decide how to deal with owners who did not quit claim and did not pay. We also have to remember that by then, there could be very few owners left in that situation since every original owner or their heirs who sell, sign the quit claim before selling.

 

[Sandisw]

I see your point but I see it differently.

Beach club contract owners, for example, won't be expected to pay for costs beyond January 2042 to reserves or for capital improvements. Disney can't ask 2042 resort owners to pay for the flip or demo of resorts that occurs after lease is up. Why should OKW 2042 owners?

I agree that original owners that didn't sign the quit claim deeds are completely different than resale buyers. I am speaking specifically about resale buyers which, by our nature, can't expect anything after January 2042.

I did more reading and I changed my mind an d agree with you that any owner of a 2042 contract, would have the subsidy.

 

[CarolynFH]

If a contract ends on January 31st, 2042....do the owners pay dues for 2042 or not? (Owners at any 2042 resorts, not just OKW.)

Dues are for operations and maintenance during that calendar year. So if BWV is in operation for the month of January 2042, I expect to be held responsible for my share of expenses for that single month.

How and when DVC will assess, ask for and enforce payment of those dues, I have no idea!

 

[Sandisw]

Dues are for operations and maintenance during that calendar year. So if BWV is in operation for the month of January 2042, I expect to be held responsible for my share of expenses for that single month.

How and when DVC will assess, ask for and enforce payment of those dues, I have no idea!

I would have to guess we will see them assess them in January 2041..and people will be billed for 13 months.

What I wonder is whether or not they will still allow monthly payments in that last year for free.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

Dues are for operations and maintenance during that calendar year. So if BWV is in operation for the month of January 2042, I expect to be held responsible for my share of expenses for that single month.

How and when DVC will assess, ask for and enforce payment of those dues, I have no idea!

Enforcing dues could be an issue. What happens when people borrow the last year of points to use in 2041 and then just stop paying? It might not even be the original intent but I could see someone who borrowed and has no points left wondering why they're still paying dues.

 

[aammtt20]

Enforcing dues could be an issue. What happens when people borrow the last year of points to use in 2041 and then just stop paying? It might not even be the original intent but I could see someone who borrowed and has no points left wondering why they're still paying dues.

People suspect they may limit borrowing for the last few years of a contract to help limit this issue