Official Dopey 2017 Thread

[Chasing Dopey]

If there are any other 'masters' runners out there, take a look at this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/masters-training/why-masters-runners-should-try-longer-training-cycles

I wish I had read this a year ago! But given this idea, how do you train for something like Dopey, that pretty much requires the consecutive days? I'd be interested to hear any thoughts. TIA

 

[Sailormoon2]

I doubt it, that would put the marathon weekend the same weekend as MLK day (15th) I'm sure they dont want to have the marathon going on the same weekend they would have higher than normal crowds with a holiday weekend.. Just my guess, which is horribly unreliable, that the marathon weekend will be Jan 4-7. But who knows.. It is a unique layout for 2018 with NY day being on a Monday..

Well this is my hope, so I like your logic. Only time will tell, but fingers crossed for this scenario

 

[Ariel484]

This is the plan I wanted to use for 2015: http://www.halhigdon.com/writing/57107/Dopey Challenge Training Guide

But I got injured in the fall and wasn't ready to start that plan, so I ended up using this one: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

I modified it a bit just by making some of the weeks having back-to-back runs, and for the peak week I did all 4 runs in a row as a Dopey dress rehearsal. I also added in some strength training and yoga. I think some (most?) would look at using a marathon plan and say it's not enough mileage, but to me it depends on your goal - to run for PRs in any of the races, or just to finish? When I run Disney races, it's purely for fun (I figure if I want to try to fun fast, that's what local races are for) and I felt pretty awesome all weekend using Novice 1. Not sure which of these plans I'll use the next time I do Dopey.

 

[DopeyBadger]

It would be my opinion that you could follow a nine-day cycle with 1 SOS (something of substance), 2 easy, 1 SOS, 2 easy, 1 SOS, 2 easy, etc... without issue for competing in Dopey. For my personal training, I do: 1 SOS, 2 easy, 1 SOS, 1 easy, 1 SOS, off, repeat every week cycle (used Hansons) and haven't had any issues (and that includes going for PR effort on all 4 races). The goal though would be to make the training more difficult than the actual race not by pace but by cumulative mileage and time on feet. If someone were to attempt a maximized 9-day cycle I would suggest something like:

Day 1 - Track 90 min (actual track work <50% of workout)
Day 2 - Easy 90 min
Day 3 - Easy 90 min
Day 4 - Tempo 90 min (actual tempo work <80% of workout)
Day 5 - Easy 90 min
Day 6 - Easy 90 min
Day 7 - Long Run 120 min
Day 8 - Easy 90 min
Day 9 - Easy 90 min

This way your simulated Dopey of 5K, 10K, Half, and Full is actually within the days 4 through 7, but you're likely running longer/further during days 4/5 then the real Dopey almost every week building to Day 6 and 7. Towards the end of the cycle, I'd probably bump the tempo past 90 min, the Day 6 past 90 min, and the Long Run maxed at 150 min. I'm a big believer that endurance running comes down to a two key timeframes. Training between 60-90 minutes to continue the fatigue from previous workouts but not too much to take you past the breaking point, and the second timeframe of a max of 150 minutes because recovery takes too long beyond workouts that long.

I saw a recent research article (and I can't find it at the moment) which had subjects in two groups: traditional rigid plan (3 SOS per week with easy on other days) or a plan based on HRV (heart rate variability). The subjects in the heart rate variability group determined whether they were to do a SOS or easy based on a heart reading measurement in the morning that measured the time between heart beats. Normal timing equaled SOS workout, but a shortened timing meant an easy day. The group based on physiological signs and symptoms (HRV) improved better over the course of the training cycle (and actually did less SOS I believe but I'm not sure on this point). Same concept as a nine-day plan but a different approach. Regardless, a nine day cycle could definitely work for Dopey even though Dopey is potentially 4 SOS in a row in my opinion.

 

[opusone]

If there are any other 'masters' runners out there, take a look at this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/masters-training/why-masters-runners-should-try-longer-training-cycles

I wish I had read this a year ago! But given this idea, how do you train for something like Dopey, that pretty much requires the consecutive days? I'd be interested to hear any thoughts. TIA

Thanks for the link to the article! I definitely require more recovery time than I used to, but that being said, I feel that I can still work up to a decent amount of weekly miles if you do it in a very controlled manner (i.e. longer ramp-up than my younger-years and very careful structure of higher intensity as to not overdo it). I think the biggest problem with the 9 or 10-day cycle would be the timing that they mention in the article. It would be tough to schedule the long runs in the middle of the week. I guess if you went with a two week cycle, then you could always schedule the long runs on a weekend, but that seems like a really long cycle to me (maybe just because I'm used to the 7-day cycle).

Also, I am currently using the Hansons Half Marathon Program which uses the concept of cumulative fatigue in training, and I'm not sure how a longer cycle would fit with the cumulative fatigue idea. I mean, if you have too much recovery time, then it would seem to greatly reduce fatigue, which I know is sort of the message of the article, but based on Hansons' philosophy, you wouldn't want to add recovery time to a point that you are always running on fresh legs. There is probably a happy-medium for us of "masters" age, but like all things, I bet it would be a different cycle for each individual runner based on our own recovery needs... and whatever the correct cycle, it's highly unlikely that it would fit nicely with the long runs falling on the weekends. I guess, however, that if you are truly doing what is best for your body/running goals, then you make time for it, right?

 

[opusone]

Day 1 - Track 90 min (actual track work <50% of workout)
Day 2 - Easy 90 min
Day 3 - Easy 90 min
Day 4 - Tempo 90 min (actual tempo work <80% of workout)
Day 5 - Easy 90 min
Day 6 - Easy 90 min
Day 7 - Long Run 120 min
Day 8 - Easy 90 min
Day 9 - Easy 90 min

Wow, even more demanding than the Hanson brothers... no days off, ever. I'm sure glad you're not my coach!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Wow, even more demanding than the Hanson brothers... no days off, ever. I'm sure glad you're not my coach!

Yep its an aggressive plan for those looking to PR effort using a nine day cycle in Dopey. Definitely not for everyone. More conservatively I would drop the timing down to 60 min most easy days and would probably say the day off would be best on either day 2 or 3. Still a strong plan but it would definitely be harder to be prepared for PR effort on all 4 days. I'd be interested to see Mebs actual plan to analyze the numbers behind it.

 

[WiscRunner]

Hi all! Just a new person here - wanted to say hi. I'm going to try and register for Dopey and I can't wait! This will be my first ever Disney run AND my first ever trip to Disney! Plus I'm headed there by myself- so hopefully I can meet some awesome people along the way!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Welcome! From the state of Wisconsin? We've got a few of us on here from there. I'm from Cottage Grove.

 

[surfde22]

Welcome! From the state of Wisconsin? We've got a few of us on here from there. I'm from Cottage Grove.

Yeah, too many of you if you ask me.

Well only if I actually cared about the MN/WI border battle, which I don't.

 

[WiscRunner]

Thanks! Yes, I live in Wisconsin- grew up in Minnesota though! I'm over by the Rice Lake area now.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

I saw a recent research article (and I can't find it at the moment) which had subjects in two groups: traditional rigid plan (3 SOS per week with easy on other days) or a plan based on HRV (heart rate variability).

I saw that! Very interesting stuff.

I read somewhere that every runner is a laboratory of 1. So, I definitely think one's own genetics, resiliency, and 'relative age' play a huge part. I'm a big believer in recovery time going back to my days playing tennis. While you want to be out there, sometimes several days or even a week off would produce a remarkable result. (A glitch would suddenly solve itself, and the shots would seem easy and crisp.)

On the other hand, you have to prepare for the toll you're about to take. Somewhere in there is the balance. For my Dark Side taper right now I'm actually taking 2 days off between runs, but still cross training some on the off days, but nothing too heavy. After the race I'll start playing around with it and see if the extra day off feels like it's putting my ahead by healing, or holding me back from acclimating.

 

[PrincessV]

If there are any other 'masters' runners out there, take a look at this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/masters-training/why-masters-runners-should-try-longer-training-cycles

I wish I had read this a year ago! But given this idea, how do you train for something like Dopey, that pretty much requires the consecutive days? I'd be interested to hear any thoughts. TIA

Master here at 45! Haven't done Dopey yet, but planning to in 2017. I ran my first full this year, and I've done a bunch of 5K/10K/13.1 weekends. Absolutely, I quickly found that I need a longer training cycle. My body likes a 2-week cycle with the option of making it 3 weeks on occasion. Now I'm not chasing a PR, don't care about time at all other than insofar as I'd rather not be out there any longer than necessary, and have no qualms about stopping to smell the roses on extra-long runs, so there's that. My Dopey plan more or less will look like this:

Week 1
M - short run
T - Strength train
W - rest
Th - Dopey simulation day 1
F - Dopey sim day 2
Sa - Dopey sim day 3
Su - Dopey sim day 4

Week 2
M - rest
T - short run
W - ST
Th - short run
F - rest
Sa cut-back long run
Su - Pilates

I've got 3 week cycles for the final two cycles, 2 week cycles up until that point.

 

[camaker]

This is the plan I wanted to use for 2015: http://www.halhigdon.com/writing/57107/Dopey Challenge Training Guide

But I got injured in the fall and wasn't ready to start that plan, so I ended up using this one: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

I modified it a bit just by making some of the weeks having back-to-back runs, and for the peak week I did all 4 runs in a row as a Dopey dress rehearsal. I also added in some strength training and yoga. I think some (most?) would look at using a marathon plan and say it's not enough mileage, but to me it depends on your goal - to run for PRs in any of the races, or just to finish? When I run Disney races, it's purely for fun (I figure if I want to try to fun fast, that's what local races are for) and I felt pretty awesome all weekend using Novice 1. Not sure which of these plans I'll use the next time I do Dopey.

I looked at the Higdon Dopey plan and it's just way too much mileage for me. I want to get there with some energy left and, heck, I'm doing this for fun! I decided to just go with Higdon's marathon plan. I am planning on running the City of Oaks Marathon in Raleigh in early November for time using that plan and then intend to come up with a maintenance/bridging plan to keep conditioned until Dopey in January.

 

[rteetz]

Thanks! Yes, I live in Wisconsin- grew up in Minnesota though! I'm over by the Rice Lake area now.

I'm in the Milwaukee area!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks! Yes, I live in Wisconsin- grew up in Minnesota though! I'm over by the Rice Lake area now.

Cool! Doing any local races between now and Dopey?

 

[WiscRunner]

Cool! Doing any local races between now and Dopey?

Lots of little ones around, but then in May I'm doing the "Conquer the Capital" races in Madison. That'll be my first back-to-back race, hopefully it will get me ready for Dopey! How about you?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Lots of little ones around, but then in May I'm doing the "Conquer the Capital" races in Madison. That'll be my first back-to-back race, hopefully it will get me ready for Dopey! How about you?

Never done that whole challenge. I've heard the 10K during the twilight is fun. I've run the half marathon twice though. If you've never done it be wary of the mile 1, 6 and 10 hills. However, mile 10 is the real beast, it is an 80 foot incline in 0.15 miles, or a 10.1% incline! Save your energy for it because you'll need it. Lots of spectators on the hill yelling you through it but it can be demoralizing to see it in the distance if you aren't prepared for it. Are you doing the full in November, as well, as part of the challenge?



I'm only signed up for the Wisconsin Marathon at this point. It's May 7th in Kenosha. I did it last year and am looking for a little redemption. I will sign up for a fall marathon as well (either DoLittle in Waukesha, Lakefront in Milwaukee, or Chicago). Haven't decided which yet. I did Lakefront last year and really enjoyed the course. The only other race on the calendar that I might do is a local 10K in my city in June. Oh, and of course Dopey 2017!

 

[WiscRunner]

Thanks for that info! I'll have to do some more hill work as they are not my friend.

I'm not doing the full because I committed to a marathon in Luck in October (my first!) and I don't think I'll have time to recover properly. Plus I want to make sure I'm ready for Dopey!!

Your marathon is coming up quick, I hope it goes well!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks for that info! I'll have to do some more hill work as they are not my friend.

I'm not doing the full because I committed to a marathon in Luck in October (my first!) and I don't think I'll have time to recover properly. Plus I want to make sure I'm ready for Dopey!!

Your marathon is coming up quick, I hope it goes well!

I would agree. Don't do the extra challenge of the full in November with your first marathon in October. I've never heard of the Gandy Dancer, but it looks like it would be beautiful that time of the year. Definitely on the edge of making a full recovery prior to Dopey but it's doable. I've done a similar plan of full in October and race Dopey the last two years and will again this year. Felt like I made a recovery from the October marathon about 3 weeks prior to Dopey last year. The key for my recovery prior to Dopey after the marathon in October was taking two weeks completely off from running. It allowed me to make a full recovery sooner and allow the training in late October through December to be fresher.

My fingers are crossed for the upcoming marathon. My goal is to give my best effort. I'm training for a 3:26 with an outside chance at 3:18. At this point, depending on the weather that will put me at about a 12-20 min PR and a 100 min improvement from last year. I'm liking where I'm at with about 4 weeks to go.