OC Register lists Genie Plus and Lightning Lane rides

[sjmac42]

I sincerely hope that guests will not take any frustrations out on CM’s. They didn’t invent the new system, they just have to try and implement it as best they can.

 

[Dug720]

It will be interesting to see how many people opt for the Individual Lightning Lane instead of Genie+.

Since they cover different rides, it could be either/or or both/and.

And I think it will be situationally dependent. I know I have pretty much already budgeted for G+ every day for my DL trip in February - and potentially buying ILL in DCA (no desire to do Rise on either coast as I don’t believe in Star Wars) because apparently my week coincides with some rodeo in Tucson where the residents all escape to DL so I anticipate needing it to get at least one ride in on things I want to do. And it includes PhotoPass. OTOH, my late August trip to WDW I am taking it on a day-by-day basis because the week I am there was deader than dead this year so would not be needed - and does not include PhotoPass/Memory Maker. If I find that a day is for some reason super busy I can always buy it a la carte - and/or ILL something like Remy or MMRR (assuming I bother with Studios) if necessary.

 

[DLgal]

I sincerely hope that guests will not take any frustrations out on CM’s. They didn’t invent the new system, they just have to try and implement it as best they can.

From my recent experiences, it's the CMs taking their frustrations out on the guests. I mean, they're often doing it with a smile, but I've had some quite surprisingly open and honest conversations with CMs all over the parks and they don't hold back. I find it interesting that the veil has kind of come away and they aren't "sticking to the script" as much as they did before. Maybe I'm just skilled at making them feel comfortable enough to speak candidly, but there seems to be a lot of pent up frustration with management right now. They seem to actually really understand the guest complaints and sympathize for the most part.

 

[BadPinkTink]

From my recent experiences, it's the CMs taking their frustrations out on the guests. I mean, they're often doing it with a smile, but I've had some quite surprisingly open and honest conversations with CMs all over the parks and they don't hold back. I find it interesting that the veil has kind of come away and they aren't "sticking to the script" as much as they did before. Maybe I'm just skilled at making them feel comfortable enough to speak candidly, but there seems to be a lot of pent up frustration with management right now. They seem to actually really understand the guest complaints and sympathize for the most part.

That was there before Covid, Over the years I got to know an older CM who had been a CM for over 20 years. There was a lot of dis satisfaction particularly from the older CM's with Disney management in 2017, 2018, 2019 and possibly before that. Just like any large multi national corporation, the PR image projected for the customers / guests is very different to the actual reality of being a CM / employee of that corporation.

 

[DLgal]

That was there before Covid, Over the years I got to know an older CM who had been a CM for over 20 years. There was a lot of dis satisfaction particularly from the older CM's with Disney management in 2017, 2018, 2019 and possibly before that. Just like any large multi national corporation, the PR image projected for the customers / guests is very different to the actual reality of being a CM / employee of that corporation.

Oh, definitely. I always found the long time older CMs to be quite upfront.

What I'm seeing now is the YOUNGER ones doing it, and most surprisingly, the Plaids. All you need to do to get a Plaid to open up is just make one innocent comment like "it's a bit busy today, huh?" And they just GO.

When we made the (in hindsight, dumb) decision to go last Saturday when we were able to grab a last minute reservation, and I reached the end of the 20 minute line to get a DAS return time at the umbrella in Fantasyland (where there was only ONE CM working), another CM came rushing over to help and helped me out. She started off by apologizing for the wait and all I said was "oh, no worries, it's just a tad bit busy today and I get it." She looked me dead in the eye and said "you know, you'd THINK that Disney would know it's a bad idea to have 80% of guest capacity with only half our cast here today, but here we are. It should never be like this." I then told her if we had known it would be this bad, we wouldn't have come because these kinds of crowds stress our kid out and we were probably not going to stay very long. We then had a really interesting conversation about the balance of guests allowed in vs staffing levels. We had 5 minutes to talk while she tried 3 different iPhones that did nothing but spin a Mickey head fruitlessly while trying to connect to the overloaded network. I made a comment about how pretty soon this process would hopefully be easier on everyone when Genie launches and she laughed and said, "yeah, if it even works, since half the time even our system doesn't work." When she finally got the thing to work, we were wanting Radiator Springs Racers, which had a 120 minute wait. It was 12:58 at the time and she said "okay, you're all set anytime after 1:18." I said "I'm sorry, ONE eighteen?" She winked and said "Yep, you're all set! Have a great rest of your day!" I was actually really relieved because I wasn't even sure we would have made it another 2 hours in the parks.

 

[dieumeye]

From my recent experiences, it's the CMs taking their frustrations out on the guests. I mean, they're often doing it with a smile, but I've had some quite surprisingly open and honest conversations with CMs all over the parks and they don't hold back. I find it interesting that the veil has kind of come away and they aren't "sticking to the script" as much as they did before. Maybe I'm just skilled at making them feel comfortable enough to speak candidly, but there seems to be a lot of pent up frustration with management right now. They seem to actually really understand the guest complaints and sympathize for the most part.

Yeah. I think that’s one part of the overall “off” feeling about the parks currently.

There are a lot of wonderful CMs, and just this past weekend I had an interaction with a great CM who was laughing and positive and really brightened my day.

But I’d say currently, on average, there seem to be more CMs who are one or more of the following: disconnected, just going through the motions, visibly frustrated, tired, confused, or don’t seem to know their job very well.

On another note, I also think it’s the same for guests. There have always been examples of poor guest behavior, but I feel that currently, on average, there are more guests with bad behavior, short tempers, or generally snotty snide attitudes.

I think both of these things feed into each other. None of it stops me from having a good time, but it contributes to that pervasive “off” feeling. This is just my theory based what I’ve seen on my recent visits.

 

[DLgal]

Yeah. I think that’s one part of the overall “off” feeling about the parks currently.

There are a lot of wonderful CMs, and just this past weekend I had an interaction with a great CM who was laughing and positive and really brightened my day.

But I’d say currently, on average, there seem to be more CMs who are one or more of the following: disconnected, just going through the motions, visibly frustrated, tired, confused, or don’t seem to know their job very well.

On another note, I also think it’s the same for guests. There have always been examples of poor guest behavior, but I feel that currently, on average, there are more guests with bad behavior, short tempers, or generally snotty snide attitudes.

I think both of these things feed into each other. None of it stops me from having a good time, but it contributes to that pervasive “off” feeling. This is just my theory based what I’ve seen on my recent visits.

Yeah, I notice these CMs too and on the whole, I feel bad for them. There doesn't seem to a be a lot of management/supervisor presence at all and a lot of times, the CMs seem confused or in need of some more direction as they kind of aimlessly go through the motions without regard to the current sitiation. This is a particular problem at the "quick" service food places. You can tell they have a manual that tells them exactly how to carry out their duties and they stick to it EXACTLY rather than survey the current situation and adjust. In the before times, you'd often find a flurry of activity behind the counter with multiple people working together to fill orders simultaneously, and I often saw a manager up front directing CMs to specific duties. That is all GONE now and you get 2 or 3 CMs SLOWLY filling one order at a time, seemingly moving in slow motion the entire time. I mean, I worked fast food for several years in high school and I feel like *I* could jump the counter and get those CMs working at least 100% more efficiently to fill orders much, much faster, but they are just there alone with no guidance and apparently, no ability to improvise.

No joke, I stood at a mobile order window at Smokejumpers for 17 minutes (yes, I kept track) while they filled ONE order ahead of me. It was a big order, but it was being done SO slowly I wanted to scream. The woman who ordered it kept turning around to me and saying "I'm SO sorry." I mean, it wasn't her fault at all. But also, I was picking up ONE drink. One. And there were exactly 2 CMs behind the counter and about 4 standing around chatting at the trash cans. You're telling me they couldn't have a couple more people behind the counter and at least one person back there JUST filling drinks? This was at 1:30pm on a Saturday. Not some random off hour. It was a good thing the drink I got was alcoholic, because I was honestly about to blow my top at someone, which I NEVER do, but that situation was ridiculous.

Under those conditions, I don't blame the guests when they just lose it.

 

[DisSurfer878]

From my recent experiences, it's the CMs taking their frustrations out on the guests.

Too true. There was a very frustrated lady in front of Peter Pan a couple weeks ago doing the DAS return times who literally yelled at several parties. We were close enough to hear and only one group had done anything worth a stern tone.

 

[cruisehopeful]

That is all GONE now and you get 2 or 3 CMs SLOWLY filling one order at a time, seemingly moving in slow motion the entire time.

That's what I don't understand. There's a line of CMs at Hungry Bear just standing there looking at a ticket for their one order that they are filling. When I worked in food service, I never stood still and never did one thing at a time.

I happened to be at DCA for their soft opening of the Joffreys Coffee cart. Had no idea it was a soft opening, just saw a short line with tons of employees and figured it would be quick. It was a good 20 minutes and a couple different CMs apologized for the long wait. Most of the CMs were just standing there taking notes. At any rate, a manager told me it was their soft opening. It really didn't matter to me, as I was going to go home soon and was just killing time and wanted a coffee and line at Starbucks (Fi Fiddler whatever) was really long. I think everyone must have been brand new because it was really hard for them to do anything. Makes me wonder if everyone working Hungry Bear was brand new, too.

 

[twodogs]

I never said people shouldn’t be able to purchase an add on. Bending my words to make a point is pathetic. I said Disney shouldn’t be charging for this. Anyways, defending Disney on this decision doesn’t make sense to me. The cost of a ticket was already high yet some people justified it saying fastpass+ cost was built into the ticket price. Now that Disney is charging, you are defending them like they are making a decision to help you as a guest. That makes no sense. You had free fastpass and could book your rides before your trip. Now you pay for less options and have to make it at 7am day of. Nothing on this decision is consumer friendly. Now , because this is the only option, it makes sense for those that are making a special trip to purchase this. But that never erases the fact that Disney is nickel and dimeing you and making fastpass a paid service not in the interest of the guest. It’s OK to love Disney and criticize the mistakes management makes. You do not have to go along and love and defend every decision just because you love their product. If you genuinely think this decision is better for you and the right choice, then more power to you.

I think if you look at all of these management decisions as business decisions, meant to increase share holder value (stock price; this is the only thing businesses really want at the end of the day, above all else), all of these decisions will make sense. Disney is not trying to improve your guest experience. At all. They are trying to make money, even if it is at the cost of the guest experience (until they hit the breaking point and degrade the guest experience so much that people stop going and spending money there). I am not defending them at all here, but I am saying that I understand what they are doing as a business that needs/wants to be profitable, and maximally so. If I don’t like it, I can vote with my wallet and spend my vacation money elsewhere. No one can make me spend my hard earned cash with Disney if I disagree with their chosen balance of profit to guest satisfaction. No one can make you spend your cash there either. I hope you find the right path for you, to Disney or not to Disney.

 

[HairyChest]

I think if you look at all of these management decisions as business decisions, meant to increase share holder value (stock price; this is the only thing businesses really want at the end of the day, above all else), all of these decisions will make sense. Disney is not trying to improve your guest experience. At all. They are trying to make money, even if it is at the cost of the guest experience (until they hit the breaking point and degrade the guest experience so much that people stop going and spending money there). I am not defending them at all here, but I am saying that I understand what they are doing as a business that needs/wants to be profitable, and maximally so. If I don’t like it, I can vote with my wallet and spend my vacation money elsewhere. No one can make me spend my hard earned cash with Disney if I disagree with their chosen balance of profit to guest satisfaction. No one can make you spend your cash there either. I hope you find the right path for you, to Disney or not to Disney.

When you love something or someone, you don’t just stop dealing with them as they are making bad decisions. You talk, give feedback, try to make them realize their wrong choices and change them. Same thing here. We in the Disney community love the parks. It’s like a part of our family. We grew up with it. We discuss and give feedback when they are doing the wrong (and right) things to try to stop them from getting to that breaking point. We should never give up on calling out bad decisions. And never make excuses for things we believe deep down isn’t right just because it’s easier. My Disney life is precious to me. As it is to everyone on this board. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be here. We would just vote with our wallets, walk away, and not look back.

 

[Malcon10t]

When you love something or someone, you don’t just stop dealing with them as they are making bad decisions. You talk, give feedback, try to make them realize their wrong choices and change them. Same thing here. We in the Disney community love the parks. It’s like a part of our family. We grew up with it. We discuss and give feedback when they are doing the wrong (and right) things to try to stop them from getting to that breaking point. We should never give up on calling out bad decisions. And never make excuses for things we believe deep down isn’t right just because it’s easier. My Disney life is precious to me. As it is to everyone on this board. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be here. We would just vote with our wallets, walk away, and not look back.

I get it. But that said, are you communicating this to Disney? Because I know a lot of people have also communicated "Provide us a way to PAY to be sure we get to ride".... We know we can do VIP tours, but those are a little steep for most people. We previously had MaxPass on the West Coast, and it was a big hit. I hope they offer it to Magic Key holders for an annual price, but I doubt we will see it at under $200. A large number of people who did both coasts commented they preferred MaxPass over FP+. I personally HATED FP+.

That said, I don't know how I will like the new system yet. It hasn't arrived, and even when it does, I will likely wait to check it out til we have a group together.

 

[AndrewC]

What do you do about long lines though? Again I'm going to go to out of state guests and one in a few years or lifetime type people. I'm paying thousands to get down there (as a solo guest!) and then I get to look forward to crushing long lines. 100% Disney was less enjoyable before MaxPass and mobile order... but then MaxPass started to get used a lot and mobile order has been forced on everyone so I'm SURE rather than a handful of people every hour now it's everyone using it.

What does Disney do? How do they improve my guest experience? I live in a different world than local day trip people or even people that are four or five hour drive away. Maybe we only make up half the guest experience, or even less than that, but if we disappeared and the park was just a local park... well, I know they would feel that.

Again, I have some baseline costs to overcome for any visit, if it's a single day visit in the middle of the week or a 10 day trip. Personally for a solo visit it's probably $400 to $500 for me to visit from the Pacific Northwest. How do they greatly improve my experience for less than $400-$500.

Does Disney jack prices up so a single day ticket is $250 and the cheapest multi-day ticket is still $125/day? That would reduce crowds for sure and overall improve the guest experience through shorter lines and more ride accessibility.

Does Disney give some awesome discount to people that stay at on property hotels? Like complete one visit of two nights or more and return with a 50% off discount code good for any nights in the next six months? That sure as heck would go along way to making it worth my while to return for a one or two night stay in mid January when it's off peak and low crowds.

Does Disney leave MaxPass the same as it previously was but make it $50/day/guest? They leave normal free fastpasses but allow anyone staying on property to pull two or three maxpasses for each day at check in?

All of these solutions have a common thing in them.... money. Either you make it more appealing (cheaper) to visit for out of state guests so they come back during a "boring off peak" time so they can do the couple rides that had like 2+ hour lines during holiday, or summer, or halloween, or spring break, etc.

Or the other option is you make it more expensive to deter people from being in the parks as much.

Disney has a capacity and demand issue. They have more demand than capacity and they don't really have the room to build out capacity.

I'm not looking forward to my trip next week with Rise or Spiderman. I don't like the boarding group game. I don't like that I scored dinner reservations (which that was crazy stressful) and have a plan in place and then might be tossed into the "hey, your random lottery means you need to have dinner in DCA at 6pm but your return window for Rise over in Disneyland is 6-7pm" or something like that.

Do I have the means to purchase access via some method (either a premium front of line ticket, a MaxPass style system, or a line jump per ride deal) yes, yes I do. Would my position be different if I didn't... I don't know, but I tend to think not. I hate lines, I hate wasting a good portion of my day for one 10 minute experience. I likely would trade a day of the trip for better access (less lines) on the other day(s).

I purchase VIP passes over at Universal Studios for their Halloween Horror Nights because the lines are often 60 to 200 minutes for each maze. Tickets are over $400 for the VIP experience (which basically includes unlimited front of the line). I likely could go two or three nights during my 10 day trip with normal tickets, but I would rather spend that time doing something else, even if it's less exciting, than spending 40% of each night just standing in lines.

Believe it or not, I think there are a lot of people out there like me. I think they'll save more and do an every other year trip instead of yearly trip if it means they can line jump the whole family for those eTicket rides. Or they tell the kids that once they turn 8 they can do Rise or something because they don't want to pay to line jump when the kid is 5 years old and doesn't really understand it etc. People come up with all kinds of plans and systems.... but I think there are a good number of people that will grumble about the cost but embrace the change and go home saying how much they were able to get done each day.

 

[Kuilima]

Why do people feel like they're entitled to short wait times?

 

[sjmac42]

The once per attraction per day for Genie+ seems to have been confirmed unfortunately.
https://www.kennythepirate.com/2021/10/11/disney-genie-availability-limits-are-now-released/Shows tweets from a travel agents webinar where Disney have confirmed you may use LL once per attraction per day with Genie+ at WDW at least. Really hope they change their minds before or shortly after the Disneyland launch.

 

[AndrewC]

Why do people feel like they're entitled to short wait times?

Because people hate waiting. Disney asks for feedback, people are going to say "It was great... but waiting all day sucked. We did five attractions and were in the park for 8 hours" or something.

Time is valuable and limited. If you have two days in the park and extra money then the most important factor that's out of your control is time. Maybe you can't take a third day because you have to be at work. You make good money, but it's hard to get away from work. Or your kids need to be in school, or both. Time is hard to control and "buy extra." But, an extra $100 to a family might be nothing if it improves their experience a lot. So when Disney asks feedback, wait times is the key metric that gets talked about.

 

[AndrewC]

The once per attraction per day for Genie+ seems to have been confirmed unfortunately.
https://www.kennythepirate.com/2021/10/11/disney-genie-availability-limits-are-now-released/Shows tweets from a travel agents webinar where Disney have confirmed you may use LL once per attraction per day with Genie+ at WDW at least. Really hope they change their minds before or shortly after the Disneyland launch.

That makes me wonder if the LL+ access will not be limited. If I wanted to pay three times could I do Rise three times in one day? Very interesting....

 

[Kuilima]

Because people hate waiting. Disney asks for feedback, people are going to say "It was great... but waiting all day sucked. We did five attractions and were in the park for 8 hours" or something.

Time is valuable and limited. If you have two days in the park and extra money then the most important factor that's out of your control is time. Maybe you can't take a third day because you have to be at work. You make good money, but it's hard to get away from work. Or your kids need to be in school, or both. Time is hard to control and "buy extra." But, an extra $100 to a family might be nothing if it improves their experience a lot. So when Disney asks feedback, wait times is the key metric that gets talked about.

So you're saying the people who CAN afford it are entitled to skip lines?

 

[AndrewC]

So you're saying the people who CAN afford it are entitled to skip lines?

100%

If there is a system in place to allow line skipping for a cost, then yes, I'm not going to feel bad skipping the line.

 

[dieumeye]

So you're saying the people who CAN afford it are entitled to skip lines?

Maybe “entitled” isn’t the correct word, but it has always been the case at Disney and other theme parks that those who are able and willing to spend more, get more & better access.

Whether that’s “fair” or not is a whole other discussion, but “pay more, get more” is not some radical new idea that Disney is trying.

What’s more interesting to me is your initial question about line lengths. Ignoring any options to pay for quicker access, what is the appropriate length for a line?

Is it ever reasonable to have standby queues that are 6+ hours? If the answer is no, then how do you handle new popular attractions? If the answer is yes, then how is it “fair“ to a visitor who is only coming for one day to be required to spend half the day in line for one ride?

Maybe the solution is to drastically reduce attendance by massively increasing ticket prices so that there are so few people in the park, no line is ever over 20 or 30 minutes. That might be more “fair“ but it obviously would then exclude anyone who couldn’t afford the basic ticket price, so now we’re back to the park only being available to those who can pay.

Perhaps ironically, Disney’s FastPass system might have been about as “fair“ as you can get. It allowed everyone to participate in some expedited access without paying more. And it worked well enough at Disneyland, but due to some of the drawbacks of the system evolve into FastPass+ at WDW, which also had its own pros and cons.

It’s an interesting problem with no perfect solution.