OC Register lists Genie Plus and Lightning Lane rides

[fly girl]

Really hoping for Dec AFTER our trip. Not interested in dealing with this right now!

I am on the opposite spectrum. We are coming over Thanksgiving and I am hoping and praying it will drop BEFORE our trip!

After visiting this summer (and crowds were low on some of our days) we learned we are a MaxPass family. I guess now we will try to be a Genie+ family.

However, I am sincerely hoping they will change it to include re-rides. Even though I am not a MK holder, I know what is needed to get the locals onboard. Re-rides are important, locals like "their rides" -- heck even the non-locals. GOTG is a must re-ride attraction. You want to get all of the music variations.

I still think Disney was full of it when they said this was MaxPass with more flexibility. It did nothing to increase flexibility, they just used that verbiage in hopes that we would just gleefully go along with it.


*edited for grammar

 

[sjmac42]

Is there any other source to the “one use per ride per day” other than that one Tweet (or was it Instagram?) where someone claimed it but the attached video had no hint of it? Not saying it won’t happen but so many folks now seem to be taking it as fact.

This source refers only to the tweet I mentioned above. They also said it was communicated to media outlets but I have yet to see another media outlet report the same. Again, it might be true but I get skeptical when all reporting keeps getting traced down to a single tweet.

I tend to agree with this. It hasn’t been stated by Disney directly and those who have reported it have either said they heard it from a cast member at the WDW preview OR are simply quoting each other. I specifically asked Deni from wdwinfo if this was actually stated at the preview and she replied that while it was her understanding (ie no RE-rides with G+) that she didn’t actually hear it at the preview she attended. So I wonder if this is just a case of miscommunication? If this is not the case it might become a self perpetuating myth
The other thing is so much info was recently released with pricing, start date, attractions included in G+ and ILL (IA$) yet no mention of one LL per attraction per day. Seems strange Disney wouldn’t mention this important aspect. It may well be true but I’ll await an official announcement from Disney.

 

[DLgal]

But this could change with G+, maybe? They did change ROTR BGs at DLR from having to be scanned into the park (remember those crazy mornings at the gates!) to being able to try for a BG from home/hotel/Dallas (in our case!), so maybe they will let you at least book your first “pass” from outside the parks?

No, the press release from Disney addressed this specifically and said at Disneyland, guests must physically scan into a park before having access to Genie+ reservations. Once you scan in, you can then make reservations from anywhere else, so if you leave the park, you can continue to make them. This is how Maxpass also worked. A sort of cheat was to scan in at the Disneyland monorail station just to be "in" and then book your first Maxpass, but make a u turn and not actually ride the monorail in, and walk to the front park gate. This won't work nowadays if you are starting your day in DCA, but it used to when park hopping could be done immediately. I used to do this all the time.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

So I am very interested in this nuance about G+; is it going to be one “pass” only at a time, or can you stack? VERY big difference in value to me.

Press from WDW indicates a 2-hour max between bookings. Whether the timing works for “stacking” remains to be seen (you need variable enough times/demand for it to work).

But this could change with G+, maybe? They did change ROTR BGs at DLR from having to be scanned into the park (remember those crazy mornings at the gates!) to being able to try for a BG from home/hotel/Dallas (in our case!), so maybe they will let you at least book your first “pass” from outside the parks?

Currently they’ve specified that DL guests have to enter to book the individual LL rides. I’d be surprised if they did something different for standard Genie+ since Maxpass also made you enter first… but you never know.

 

[DLgal]

Press from WDW indicates a 2-hour max between bookings. Whether the timing works for “stacking” remains to be seen (you need variable enough times/demand for it to work).

Currently they’ve specified that DL guests have to enter to book the individual LL rides. I’d be surprised if they did something different for standard Genie+ since Maxpass also made you enter first… but you never know.

Just a note that when Disney refers to "Lightning Lane Selections" they mean the Genie+ return times. The others are called "Individual Attraction Selections."

Its confusing because both options use the Lightning Lane.

Oddly, Disney seems to have removed the extensive FAQ section with regards to Genie where it mentioned the need to scan in at DLR.

I suppose they could allow booking starting at 7am like they do for all WDW visitors. But they seemed pretty clear originally that you could not start using Genie+ until you had scanned into the parks at Disneyland.

 

[HairyChest]

Sorry, Hairy, but as someone who has to jump through, literally, $1000+ of Covid test hoops, pay 35% premium on the US/CAN $, and gets to visit, if lucky, once every 2-3 years, you sound pretty privileged to me.

For many, a trip to Disneyland is a once-in-a lifetime or, maybe, thrice-in-a-decade trip. If you have the opportunity to re-visit DL multiple times and, ride the coveted rides more than once (as MANY seem to do, regularly) then, IMO, you are privileged and as such, I hope you can take pity on those of us who will spend upwards for $7,000 for 4 people for 3 days and might not get the chance to ride RSR or ROTR once. Not once. If we are being offered the chance to do that for an extra charge, but you can do it without one, please at least allow us to do that WITHOUT dissing the place we've been saving years to visit.

Cutting costs from various parts of my life to be able to afford a Disneyland pass doesn’t make me privileged. You are the one saying because your spending $7000, passholders should get out of your way and not go on holidays. Who do you think you are? With your thinking, Hawaii locals should stay home, only go to Waikiki on low crowded days and let the tourists who spent thousands enjoy it and decrease traffic.

I never dissed Disneyland. I do however criticize Disney management when they are rightfully taking advantage of its guests. Open your eyes. Think about what you are saying. Be better.

 

[MATTERHORN]

Not necessarily. If it’s true you can only ride a ride once per day, that is not the same. Yes, some rides would run out like RSR, but others like BTMRR you could pull over & over again, which we did. And for some people the offering is enough, but taking RSR off and making it a LL is a downgrade on the value.

I think it’s completely fair that people don’t like this new system. I’m one of them. Even if Genie+ cost us the same as MaxPass, we’re still looking at another $48-90/day just ride RSR under this new system. It is not the same value at all.

Yeah, that's where I would still use Genie + and follow my standby rules for RSR (first thing, during early entry, last at night, single rider) etc. But I agree, I'm glad it's not for everyone otherwise I'll never get any good times! LOL

 

[Kit Jackson]

Is the lighting land the same as Genie..... not really understanding this... We are AP holder WDW... so right now Genie is not going to effect us...

Genie) a free service in the app that will create an itinerary for you based on what you tell the app you want to do (shows, rides, food). It will also allow you to do mobile order.

Genie+) a paid service that will allow you make reservations for select rides hours in advance (similiar to FastPass). It will also allow you to do mobile order and includes photos.

Lightening Lane) seperate from Genie. a pay per ride option for select rides not included in Genie+.

Hopefully this is right and if I am wrong someone will correct me.

 

[Dug720]

Lightening Lane) seperate from Genie. a pay per ride option for select rides not included in Genie+.

As I understand it, the Lightning Lane is what will be used for the Genie+ reservations. Some rides (up to 2 per park) will have paid Individual Lightning Lanes and no option for it on the Genie+ area of the app. From what I understand, you can purchase the Individual Lightning Lane without buying Genie+ if the only rides you want an advantage on are those extra fee ones.

 

[AndrewC]

Um…we won’t. Like I said. Us locals can go on a off peak time? So locals shouldn’t be able to go on holidays? You sound pretty privileged. A disney guest is a Disney guest. Whether you entered with an annual pass, a ticket, free because your a CM, we should ALL have the chance to go when we want and ride a ride with low waits. To defend Disney on charging for something that was free is ludicrous. And you don’t need to justify them charging for fastpass by saying “allow reduced times for single day guests or out of town guests” because they could of still had free fastpass and added a guaranteed fastpass for 1 ride for ticket purchasers on top of that like RSR. If you continue defending their nickel and dimeing, they will never stop. Don’t lose sight of that. Changes can always happen for a better guest experience WITHOUT charging more.

To clarify, I'm not saying SoCal residents should be blacked out from holidays or high peak visit times, unless they buy the cheap SoCal pass which obviously trades availability for a greatly reduced cost.

What I'm saying is I see this to be a vast improvement for guests that have limited time in the parks. If someone is there for two or three days over the holidays because that's when the kids are out of school, when someone has days off from work or is easier to take time off work, and might also double up with a trip to visit family, the new system is an absolute game changer for them. Yes it's more expensive and maybe they need to budget an extra $60/day for a family of four so they can hit the huge eTicket ride that day (Rise or Spiderman, etc) but they KNOW 100% they are getting to do the rides they value highest.

You have the option of paying on the day after Thanksgiving to do that big popular ride. Or you have the option to wait in the soul crushing line that day to do it. OR maybe you just decide to wait two more weeks and return on a Thursday afternoon in early December and just spend a few hours there after the kids are out of school and you're done with work and maybe the lines are 30 minutes or something for those rides. For me personally to return for another off peak time would at least be $300 for flights/parking at airport, probably $50 at the cheapest for round trip from SNA to hotel, probably at least $100 at the hotel, and food in the park or surrounding area (because I can't drive home for dinner). That's likely $450 to $500 at the bare minimum for me to return on some random Thursday for low off peak crowds. Would I much rather spend $15 to make sure I got on Rise... totally. All day long. Every day.

To me FastPass was useful, but a hassle. I hated running around pulling passes. MaxPass was extremely powerful and really nice (and was priced almost the same as Genie+) but still some attractions it was.... less than ideal with. RSR often would "sell out" of passes, even with MaxPass. If I could pull a return time for RSR without being in the park, that would be great. But, if I'm driving over from Universal Studios and get at the gate at 10:45 am or 11:15 am or something, almost always the return time for RSR would be 7pm or later and sometimes would be gone for the day already. Would I pay $15 if I could get into the parks that "late" in the morning and still get on RSR, yes, totally.

There's not too many ways Disney could improve access to single day or out of town folks (or just people that are willing to pay). Disney could increase the price of daily tickets even more to try and lower crowds but not lower income/revenue. Disney could limit how many APs they sell, increase the price of APs, not have a top tier AP with no blockout days, or reduce the amount of reservations open to AP holder, or Disney could charge to jump the line or really jack up a MaxPass replacement (say $45/person, $55/person?) and not have a pay per attraction option.

Two of those options make it harder to get into the park at all
One of those options makes you open your wallet

Genie+ and LL was a hybrid option that kept cost of entry for a MaxPass style system low but took the rides that have passes that sell out and allowed a way for guests to make sure they got on if that was top priority.

There will always be a standby line

 

[AndrewC]

Went back and looked at your reply again and this time noticed the comment about still having a free fastpass system in addition to a paid option. That gets into some really interesting ideas... With some big machine learning a system like that probably could work but it would take some pretty hardcore data crunching.

Disney would have to set aside paid return tickets that were top priority

Disney would need to have dynamic return times with free FastPass... maybe a return window like "Return time will be assigned between 4pm and 6pm" and update with a 30 minute target time or something as it got close to that window.

Disney would need dynamic standby waits that updated far more frequently and probably more accurately. Possibly with a "prediction time" added in to let guests know 12-2pm are the worst and avoid standby then, etc

Then the biggest change would probably be dynamically telling the staff working the queue how many guests from each line to let in. Right now I'm sure there is some system, but it looks like it's administered by the staff, IE "Hey, for every 10 standby people let 5 return guests in" or something basic like that.

A more advanced system would have to be like "Let 75 return guests in right now" because the system sees a huge amount of purchased line jumps and return free passes. Then let in X amount of standby guests and X amount of return guests to balance that. Then if there is another surge later in the day with paid line jumps the system might again need to devote like 75% of riders to the return line vs the standby to keep the wait times low in that line and thus the cost worth while.

It could be done, but doing it where you don't have people get in a standby line shown as 30 minutes that really takes 90 minutes because people keep buying line jumps might be tricky.

I'm sure machine learning and big data could figure it out, and it could potentially be very smooth if they ONLY allowed the purchased line jumps via the app the day before with maybe 60 or 90 minute pre-assigned return windows..... like literally how you would make dining reservations. Then they could adjust how many free fastpasses to offer AND be more aggressive on the return windows on those...

 

[Dory92130]

Genie) a free service in the app that will create an itinerary for you based on what you tell the app you want to do (shows, rides, food). It will also allow you to do mobile order.

Genie+) a paid service that will allow you make reservations for select rides hours in advance (similiar to FastPass). It will also allow you to do mobile order and includes photos.

Lightening Lane) seperate from Genie. a pay per ride option for select rides not included in Genie+.

Hopefully this is right and if I am wrong someone will correct me.

I like how they separated it here (attached)

Genie+ uses Lightning Lane

A la carte Lightning Lane - pay per use - limit 1 per day

--I do believe when Disney speaks about limit 1 per day, it's to the a la carte LL option. I do not believe they will be limiting Genie+ to one a day -- simply because the programming may be beyond Disney Tech programmers (ha ha--in jest techies---well, semi-jest) .

--I do believe with the reservation system and BG programming in place, 700A availability may be made available on 1st park. -- to keep with the goal of not crowding the turnstiles in the AM

@twodogs- I remember we would time our MP to get a late RSR then catch up mid-morning while hitting the fast lines. With the confirmation 2 hour - 2nd pass -- we may be able to do that stacking still -- just not with RSR anymore

 

[Malcon10t]

Cutting costs from various parts of my life to be able to afford a Disneyland pass doesn’t make me privileged. You are the one saying because your spending $7000, passholders should get out of your way and not go on holidays. Who do you think you are? With your thinking, Hawaii locals should stay home, only go to Waikiki on low crowded days and let the tourists who spent thousands enjoy it and decrease traffic.

I never dissed Disneyland. I do however criticize Disney management when they are rightfully taking advantage of its guests. Open your eyes. Think about what you are saying. Be better.

I haven't seen anyone say if you pay for a pass that is open on holidays, you shouldn't go because you are a local. That said, you have said people shouldn't be able to purchase an add on program because you don't want it. I can see someone coming for their once a decade trip opting to spend for the Genie+, while the person who comes weekly/monthly might not.

It is a matter of choice. Everyone can make their choice what they will spend. It is up to each individual/family to decide.

 

[Kit Jackson]

As I understand it, the Lightning Lane is what will be used for the Genie+ reservations. Some rides (up to 2 per park) will have paid Individual Lightning Lanes and no option for it on the Genie+ area of the app. From what I understand, you can purchase the Individual Lightning Lane without buying Genie+ if the only rides you want an advantage on are those extra fee ones.

I thought there were two things called Lightning Lanes, but for some reason I thought they had changed the name of one of them. Thanks for the correction.

It will be interesting to see how many people opt for the Individual Lightning Lane instead of Genie+.

 

[Dory92130]

Agree with @Malcon10t that Genie+ and a la carte are all improvements that offer choice and opportunity for folk across the spectrum to meet their own individual park experience needs. It may not match and actually take away opportunities for savvy and experienced park goers who solely rely on standby lines or those with fast computers with fiber to grab BGs at will. It does offer MORE CHOICE for the Park goer to tailor their experience to their needs.

We probably won't be doing Genie+ unless it's an annual add-on that's reasonable. MP annual was $150 - so that's a starting point to use.

 

[HairyChest]

I haven't seen anyone say if you pay for a pass that is open on holidays, you shouldn't go because you are a local. That said, you have said people shouldn't be able to purchase an add on program because you don't want it. I can see someone coming for their once a decade trip opting to spend for the Genie+, while the person who comes weekly/monthly might not.

It is a matter of choice. Everyone can make their choice what they will spend. It is up to each individual/family to decide.

I never said people shouldn’t be able to purchase an add on. I said Disney shouldn’t be charging for this. Anyways, defending Disney on this decision doesn’t make sense to me. The cost of a ticket was already high yet some people justified it saying fastpass+ cost was built into the ticket price. Now that Disney is charging, you are defending them like they are making a decision to help you as a guest. That makes no sense. You had free fastpass and could book your rides before your trip. Now you pay for less options and have to make it at 7am day of. Nothing on this decision is consumer friendly. Now , because this is the only option, it makes sense for those that are making a special trip to purchase this. But that never erases the fact that Disney is nickel and dimeing you and making fastpass a paid service not in the interest of the guest. It’s OK to love Disney and criticize the mistakes management makes. You do not have to go along and love and defend every decision just because you love their product. If you genuinely think this decision is better for you and the right choice, then more power to you.

 

[AndrewC]

I never said people shouldn’t be able to purchase an add on. <deleted> I said Disney shouldn’t be charging for this. Anyways, defending Disney on this decision doesn’t make sense to me. The cost of a ticket was already high yet some people justified it saying fastpass+ cost was built into the ticket price. Now that Disney is charging, you are defending them like they are making a decision to help you as a guest. That makes no sense. You had free fastpass and could book your rides before your trip. Now you pay for less options and have to make it at 7am day of. Nothing on this decision is consumer friendly. Now , because this is the only option, it makes sense for those that are making a special trip to purchase this. But that never erases the fact that Disney is nickel and dimeing you and making fastpass a paid service not in the interest of the guest. It’s OK to love Disney and criticize the mistakes management makes. You do not have to go along and love and defend every decision just because you love their product. If you genuinely think this decision is better for you and the right choice, then more power to you.

As far as I know you haven’t been able to book fast passes before park opening… at least not in the last ten years.

Disney needs less people going. Otherwise the free Fastpass doesn’t really work… they just get snapped up right away.

 

[sjmac42]

As far as I know you haven’t been able to book fast passes before park opening… at least not in the last ten years.

I believe the poster is referring to FastPass+ at WDW where you booked your first 3 fastpasses each day 30, 60 or 90 days in advance depending on where you were staying. FastPass at Disneyland has required you to enter the parks first since it’s inception. MaxPass ($20 prior to been discontinued) allowed you to book Fastpasses for both parks after your first entry.

 

[Malcon10t]

I never said people shouldn’t be able to purchase an add on. <deleted> I said Disney shouldn’t be charging for this. Anyways, defending Disney on this decision doesn’t make sense to me. The cost of a ticket was already high yet some people justified it saying fastpass+ cost was built into the ticket price. Now that Disney is charging, you are defending them like they are making a decision to help you as a guest. That makes no sense. You had free fastpass and could book your rides before your trip. Now you pay for less options and have to make it at 7am day of. Nothing on this decision is consumer friendly. Now , because this is the only option, it makes sense for those that are making a special trip to purchase this. But that never erases the fact that Disney is nickel and dimeing you and making fastpass a paid service not in the interest of the guest. It’s OK to love Disney and criticize the mistakes management makes. You do not have to go along and love and defend every decision just because you love their product. If you genuinely think this decision is better for you and the right choice, then more power to you.

I genuinely think this is a better option overall. And to fully clarify, this is the Disneyland Resort side. We have never been able to make FP reservations prior to entry in the park, and I HATED having to figure out what I wanted to ride 3 mos in advance at WDW. We have always done fastpasses day of/hour of at DLR.

You state the prices are already too high, yet the parks are still over crowded. This tells anyone familiar with business models the prices have not yet hit "too high". MaxPass was a paid service, and you could see the writing on the wall that FP would be going away after MP was being widely used.

I don't go along and love and defend every decision Disney make. . However, I do look at them rationally. If I don't agree with them, I will let them know. But I also wait to see how it plays out before I make up my mind if I like something or hate it.

As far as I know you haven’t been able to book fast passes before park opening… at least not in the last ten years.

Disney needs less people going. Otherwise the free Fastpass doesn’t really work… they just get snapped up right away.

He must be confusing DLR and WDW.

 

[HairyChest]

I genuinely think this is a better option overall. And to fully clarify, this is the Disneyland Resort side. We have never been able to make FP reservations prior to entry in the park, and I HATED having to figure out what I wanted to ride 3 mos in advance at WDW. We have always done fastpasses day of/hour of at DLR.

You state the prices are already too high, yet the parks are still over crowded. This tells anyone familiar with business models the prices have not yet hit "too high". MaxPass was a paid service, and you could see the writing on the wall that FP would be going away after MP was being widely used.

I don't go along and love and defend every decision Disney make. . However, I do look at them rationally. If I don't agree with them, I will let them know. But I also wait to see how it plays out before I make up my mind if I like something or hate it.
He must be confusing DLR and WDW.

Yes I was thinking about WDW on that part. We shall see how it plays out. I have a feeling this is a very fluid situation and the response will change the details of Genie +. Either way its going to be very fun to Watch this all unfold. Im hoping the CMs will have a lot of support if they get a lot of negative response from guests. They are in a tough spot.