NYT opinion piece: Disney and the Decline of America’s Middle Class

[kylenne]

I think one reason Disney is (fairly, in my opinion) being singled out is because its image used to be that it was a place for “everyone” and then the changes came on all at once.

An “image”. That’s all it’s ever been.

People get very mad whenever I point out in these discussions that Disney vacations have always been a marker of class privilege in this country and large swaths of the population have never had access to them. There’s a specific demographic of American who came to see yearly family trips to WDW, staying on property, etc as something akin to a birthright when the reality is that was only ever attainable for a privileged few even in these alleged halcyon days when Disney was supposedly “fair”. People have always been priced out from these parks, but as long as they weren’t the ones affected it was fine.

Now that they are the ones getting priced out though, it’s a national crisis that deserves endless media coverage and think pieces apparently.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

They've definitely just about priced us out. One night of MNSSHP and one day park hoppers for our family of 4 cost us around 2000 USD, which in Canadian is close to $3500. That's right folks, for two park days. Before we stay, before we eat, before we buy souvenirs or airfare. I know there are cheaper ticket options but still, that's a bit wild isn't it?

Yes, one day tickets with park hoppers and party nights are very pricey! These have always been among the most expensive ways to visit, though.

 

[zackiedawg]

While I agree that I find the nickel-and-diming for things that were always free in the past to be disappointing and nasty at Disney - despite the fact that I can afford it, I generally don't pay for any of the upcharge perks mostly on principle - it's also possible to go to Disney without all these add-ons and still have a good time. Yes, you may stand in some lines for 45 min to an hour, and yes, your fireworks view may be farther back in the crowd...but those things were true 20, 30 and 40 years ago. Long before there was even a 'fast pass', hour-long lines for popular rides was part of the Disney experience. And though there weren't 'reserved' fireworks viewing spots, if you weren't there staked out early, you could still end up off to the side or farther down Main Street. Most people today EXPECT the maximum experience and even when they really can't afford it, still spend for all the extras...fewer people seem willing to live more frugally (I grew up pretty poor, with 6 in a house with 1 bathroom, and 1 TV for the house - we got hand-down sneakers from older siblings and clothes from K Mart - nowadays, people in the lowest classes all still seem to have top-of-the line Brand name shoes, bags, multiple huge flat screen TVs, brand new iPhones every year, and 8 streaming services - which blows me away!).

I've got enough money to enjoy what I want in life, but I still do Disney frugally - somewhat. I was lucky and smart to buy into DVC in 1996 when it was still pretty cheap, and always invest in annual passes (despite how expensive they are, it still works out because of the number of days I'm at Disney a year). I calculated my DVC buy-in cost, spread over the 46 years, to be $543 a year. Dues/maintenance is currently around $1600, and the AP renewal is $960 with tax. So I'm all in for about $3,090 a year. I go to Disney 20 days a year (sometimes more), so my daily cost for Disney not including food is $154 - that's for a 1-bedroom villa on property and park hopping each day. I don't buy the lightning lane stuff, no guides, no special event parties - pretty much none of the special upcharges for access. I still ride rides, see fireworks and shows, get free transportation, etc. And because my daily cost isn't bad, I usually splurge on food and drink, eating at higher end restaurants and visiting bars in the evenings for cocktails...my food cost averages out to around $120 per day per person. So still running around $274 a day for everything, including a lot of signature dining (I save a bit too with the AP and DVC discounts on food).

It's hard for people in current times to accept that other people may be getting something they're not - so they're not willing to skip all the extras and still have a good time. If you want to go to Disney and don't want to spend as much, try skipping some of the upcharge perks, or all of them. It's never going to be cheap going to Disney, but it can cut your overall bill by 40% or more, and you can still have a good time, visit all the parks, ride most or all of the rides, see shows and bands, resort-hop, etc.

I wish Disney would drop all the upcharge stuff personally - I just don't like it, even though I can afford it. I've been going to Disney every year of my life since I was 3, and while those with more money could always have nicer rooms, eat at better restaurants, etc - it didn't really change the park experience for everyone else. Now, most of these things DO impact everyone else's park experience - harder to get on rides, lesser viewing areas, parks closing early for special events they can't go to, and so on. But at the same time, you don't have to play the upcharge game - it's still possible to enjoy Disney for less money, even if it's not quite as good and cheap as it used to be.

 

[jade1]

The title seems misleading to me. The research they point to shows the middle class declined by 10%, because 80% of that Middle class moved to the Upper class.

Then they point out how all classes have moved up even compared to adjusted for inflation. The Upper class has indeed grown incomes higher though.

I do however agree WDW and many companies have moved pricing towards that upper class though.

 

[voxparse]

An “image”. That’s all it’s ever been.

People get very mad whenever I point out in these discussions that Disney vacations have always been a marker of class privilege in this country and large swaths of the population have never had access to them. There’s a specific demographic of American who came to see yearly family trips to WDW, staying on property, etc as something akin to a birthright when the reality is that was only ever attainable for a privileged few even in these alleged halcyon days when Disney was supposedly “fair”. People have always been priced out from these parks, but as long as they weren’t the ones affected it was fine.

Now that they are the ones getting priced out though, it’s a national crisis that deserves endless media coverage and think pieces apparently.

100% this. We grew up firmly middle class and the one time we went to Disney was when we were left some money from a relative passing away. Disney was never affordable.

 

[zackiedawg]

My first annual visits to Disney in 1971 through 1975 were driving down from New Jersey with my grandmother - we were dirt poor and it was the one family trip - she drove down, often avoiding I95 as she didn't like highways, staying at $8-10 Motel 6s along the way, then packed 5 of us into a single hotel room out on 192 - usually something like a Days Inn or Ramada Inn that ran around $23-30 a night. It was $3.75 adult/ $1.25 kids admission not including rides, and we'd get a $3.50 ticket book each once every 2 days for a 4 day stay (usually my grandmother and grandfather wouldn't get tickets for themselves, just the kids)- once we used up our E&D tickets, we had to ride the lowly A&B rides - and after running out of tickets, we walked around the parks or rode the free rides - can't tell you how many thousands of times we rode 'If You Had Wings' because it was free. We didn't eat in the parks - it was usually breakfast at a Perkins or iHop, and dinner afterwards at Perkins or Denny's - maybe once every few years, she'd save up and splurge on a Black Angus dinner. I don't think she spent more than $250 for the entire 6 days, including driving time and gas & hotels, for 5 people. Inflation adjusted, that's about $2,000 - for 5 people and 4 days at Disney. I don't think 5 people could do 4 days at Disney, driving down from New Jersey and back, for anything close to that today...of course, back then there was only Magic Kingdom, and today there's certainly a lot more to do with 4 theme parks and water parks and shopping districts, not to mention all the resorts to visit. Still, back in those early days, Disney was attainable even for the poor, without liquidating your life savings.

 

[imbelle]

My first annual visits to Disney in 1971 through 1975 were driving down from New Jersey with my grandmother - we were dirt poor and it was the one family trip - she drove down, often avoiding I95 as she didn't like highways, staying at $8-10 Motel 6s along the way, then packed 5 of us into a single hotel room out on 192 - usually something like a Days Inn or Ramada Inn that ran around $23-30 a night. It was $3.75 adult/ $1.25 kids admission not including rides, and we'd get a $3.50 ticket book each once every 2 days for a 4 day stay (usually my grandmother and grandfather wouldn't get tickets for themselves, just the kids)- once we used up our E&D tickets, we had to ride the lowly A&B rides - and after running out of tickets, we walked around the parks or rode the free rides - can't tell you how many thousands of times we rode 'If You Had Wings' because it was free. We didn't eat in the parks - it was usually breakfast at a Perkins or iHop, and dinner afterwards at Perkins or Denny's - maybe once every few years, she'd save up and splurge on a Black Angus dinner. I don't think she spent more than $250 for the entire 6 days, including driving time and gas & hotels, for 5 people. Inflation adjusted, that's about $2,000 - for 5 people and 4 days at Disney. I don't think 5 people could do 4 days at Disney, driving down from New Jersey and back, for anything close to that today...of course, back then there was only Magic Kingdom, and today there's certainly a lot more to do with 4 theme parks and water parks and shopping districts, not to mention all the resorts to visit. Still, back in those early days, Disney was attainable even for the poor, without liquidating your life savings.

Your post brought back a lot of childhood memories of frugal family visits in the 70's (especially riding "If You Had Wings" multiple times because it was free). I can vividly remember gazing at the Contemporary Resort and sadly thinking "I'll never get to stay there because we can't afford it".

 

[Minnie1222]

My first annual visits to Disney in 1971 through 1975 were driving down from New Jersey with my grandmother - we were dirt poor and it was the one family trip....Inflation adjusted, that's about $2000......back in those early days, Disney was attainable even for the poor, without liquidating your life savings.

With all due respect, I don't think you were as poor as you thought. Poor people don't have $2000 for an annual trip 5 years in a row.

 

[zackiedawg]

With all due respect, I don't think you were as poor as you thought. Poor people don't have $2000 for an annual trip 5 years in a row.

I think that depends on if we're talking about poor people today who expect a whole lot more luxuries and amenities (and debt) than back then. That one annual trip was pretty much the only expenditure we had. Unlike today where everyone has to have a brand new phone every year, multiple TVs in the house, brand name sneakers, new clothes, take-out food multiple nights a week, etc. We had hand-me-down clothes from siblings and picked up stuff at good will, a single TV that the family gathered around, my grandmother had the same car for 14 years, kept running by my grandfather, we lived in an 800 sq ft two-family home in Paterson NJ (no ton the good side of Union Ave). BY almost any measure, we were considered poor (not destitute, just poor). There were others poorer than us who couldn't go to Disney - some may not have even had a car or even electricity - I'm not trying to brag on being the poorest in the nation, just that unlike today, you don't need to be middle class and up, or willing to go into debt, to go to Disney.

 

[J-Dog]

I personally am firmly middle class, but do well enough to have bought into DVC, buy AP's and go to WDW multiple times per year. I also go to Las Vegas about once every 1-2 years.

One thing that I've noticed is that I tend to comment to myself that "there are a whole lot of people richer than me" much more often in Vegas than I do at WDW.

All the things that people complain about at WDW - expensive/exclusive parties, ridiculous cost-per-plate restaurants, super expensive prime show seating, and, of course, the cocktail waitresses that only bother to wait on the whales - are all much, much worse in Vegas than WDW.

This trend of catering to the elite is not a Disney thing. Sadly it's the norm these days.

 

[Mikey15]

They've definitely just about priced us out. One night of MNSSHP and one day park hoppers for our family of 4 cost us around 2000 USD, which in Canadian is close to $3500. That's right folks, for two park days. Before we stay, before we eat, before we buy souvenirs or airfare. I know there are cheaper ticket options but still, that's a bit wild isn't it?

Costs are crazy but you need to get a credit card that doesn’t charge a foreign exchange fee markup, or use a non-bank currency exchange. $2,000 USD is less than $2,800 CAD!