Nuclear Blunder

[eclectics]

don't say crabby in conjunction with BJS, ok?

I can see it's going to be a fun day.

 

[dcentity2000]

I would be more concerned about the Russian, nuclear capable bombers that approached your airspace and had to be turned back by the RAF.

I'm concerned about both!

What worries me the most, though, are the rotting, disused nuclear submarines of the former USSR - they don't have the money to decommission them and every day they come closer to a tragedy.

But, yeah. I'm concerned about both.



Rich::

 

[disneyfan67]

I'm concerned about both!

What worries me the most, though, are the rotting, disused nuclear submarines of the former USSR - they don't have the money to decommission them and every day they come closer to a tragedy.

But, yeah. I'm concerned about both.

Rich::

The situation in the former USSR is a concern and one they don't seem to be too worried about. The National Geographic channel had an special on this subject a few years ago. The Soviets still have their penchant for secrecy though and made it difficult for the camera crews. This is a growing problem and something needs to be done.

Also don't forget about the two American nuclear submarines that were lost at sea in the 1960's, both equipped with nuclear tipped warheads. Not only do you have the sub's reactors to deal with, you have the threat from warheads as well. The USS Scorpion (SSN-589) and the USS Thresher (SSN-593) are still at the bottom of the ocean and do pose a threat to the environment, it may be small at this time, but it's still a threat. On a side note my father was in the Navy at the time of both of these subs sank and remembers the search and the discovery of both of them. I have read two fascinating books on the subject and I have to admit, the story of the USS Scorpion is intriguing and is the subject of a few conspiracy theories. Most parts of the actual story are highly classified.


To the OP: I understand your dislike of the current POTUS and as a fellow DIS member, I don't want to appear like I'm piling on you, but you took a wrong turn on this one. I have issues with the POTUS and it's pretty well documented, but I can't see how this is any fault of his. This may sound ridiculous to you, but this incident isn't that big of a deal. It was a mistake and you can bet that there will be an internal investigation, but I don't think it's on the scale you wish it to be.

Try not to allow your anger and your feelings to seep into your political ideology. It may be hard and feel impossible at times, but to be this angry all the time isn't good for you. Just trying to offer some friendly advice.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I don't know about Russian subs rotting away, but this situation should worry you

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6981541.stm

I was in the RAF during the seventies carrying out these ops agains the russian bears. Seems they are back to their old tricks again.
maybe Putin wants to capitalise on the fact that the uSa is presently occupied in other areas.

 

[katerkat]

Yes,because he was concieved while your husband was on leave during wartime.

Next question?

Ooh, this could be fun. DH came home a week too late last month, is on alert (no hanky panky) this week this month, and will be deployed again by "that week" next month. Do I blame Pres. Bush for my inability to conceive a second child, or should someone get a refund for condoms?

 

[dcentity2000]

I don't know about Russian subs rotting away, but this situation should worry you

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6981541.stm

I was in the RAF during the seventies carrying out these ops agains the russian bears. Seems they are back to their old tricks again.
maybe Putin wants to capitalise on the fact that the uSa is presently occupied in other areas.

President Putin has made it quite clear that he wants Russia to return to the military might that it was in the days of the USSR.

To that end, Russia is developing and constructing new, super-large nuclear warheads - the biggest in the world.

But the rotting subs worry me more - they have a shockingly high chance of melting down, a much larger chance than Putin starting a nuclear war.



Rich::

 

[LakeAriel]

The situation in the former USSR is a concern and one they don't seem to be too worried about. The National Geographic channel had an special on this subject a few years ago. The Soviets still have their penchant for secrecy though and made it difficult for the camera crews. This is a growing problem and something needs to be done.

Also don't forget about the two American nuclear submarines that were lost at sea in the 1960's, both equipped with nuclear tipped warheads. Not only do you have the sub's reactors to deal with, you have the threat from warheads as well. The USS Scorpion (SSN-589) and the USS Thresher (SSN-593) are still at the bottom of the ocean and do pose a threat to the environment, it may be small at this time, but it's still a threat. On a side note my father was in the Navy at the time of both of these subs sank and remembers the search and the discovery of both of them. I have read two fascinating books on the subject and I have to admit, the story of the USS Scorpion is intriguing and is the subject of a few conspiracy theories. Most parts of the actual story are highly classified.


To the OP: I understand your dislike of the current POTUS and as a fellow DIS member, I don't want to appear like I'm piling on you, but you took a wrong turn on this one. I have issues with the POTUS and it's pretty well documented, but I can't see how this is any fault of his. This may sound ridiculous to you, but this incident isn't that big of a deal. It was a mistake and you can bet that there will be an internal investigation, but I don't think it's on the scale you wish it to be.

Try not to allow your anger and your feelings to seep into your political ideology. It may be hard and feel impossible at times, but to be this angry all the time isn't good for you. Just trying to offer some friendly advice.

but..Eddie. You voted for Potus. Twice. I know you have changed your feeling for his administration but it doesn't change the fact of what was done by him. Am I angry at how this idiot is running our country into the ground? You bet I am and if you aren't you aren't paying attention. The dead can't be resurrected.

 

[Fitswimmer]

but..Eddie. You voted for Potus. Twice. I know you have changed your feeling for his administration but it doesn't change the fact of what was done by him. Am I angry at how this idiot is running our country into the ground? You bet I am and if you aren't you aren't paying attention. The dead can't be resurrected.

I"m fairly sure that Eddie isn't suggesting that you NOT be angry about the things that POTUS is legitimately responsible for, just not to be angry at him about everything that goes wrong.

By all means, assign the proper blame to him for the choices that he has made that have been wrong...but this particular one just doesn't fit.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Don't you know before Bush, there was never a Bent Arrow incident, Warheads weren't ever flown across the US...don't you know that Bush personaly loaded the weapons on the plane..armed them and then gave them orders to fly, in fact I heard he might have flown the plane himself. (Remember this dumb guy was a fighter pilot and they just hand those jobs to the dumbest of the dumb). So once Bush is out of office this will never happen again.

Absolutely amazing.

One of my friends was hit by the shrapnel from rounds fired from a USAF A-10 in Afghanistan. He's going to be ecstatic to finally find out that Bush is to blame.

No doubt the relatives of the Canadian soldiers killed by the USAF will be relieved to find out that President Bush has been behind it it all.

 

[DawnCt1]

Well John, I guess now you know how the average Democrat felt in the 90's when everything and anything was blamed on Bill Clinton, ad nauseum. Kinda annoying, right?

You mean like this? Only this happened this week!
ALL THE EX-PRESIDENT'S SCANDALS
Kathleen Willey: Clintons stole my manuscript
House burglary over weekend targeted copy of book days after details leaked to press
Posted: September 5, 2007
7:00 p.m. Eastern

By Art Moore
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com



Kathleen Willey on "60 Minutes" in 1997
Kathleen Willey, the woman who says Bill Clinton groped her in the Oval Office, claims she was the target of an unusual house burglary over the weekend that nabbed a manuscript for her upcoming book, which promises explosive revelations that could damage Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

Willey told WND little else was taken from her rural Virginia home as she slept alone upstairs – electronics and jewelry were left behind – and she believes the Clintons were behind it.

The break-in, she said, reminded her of the widely reported incident 10 years ago in which she claimed she was threatened near the same Richmond-area home by a stranger just two days before she was to testify against President Clinton in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

The theft of the manuscript early Saturday morning was suspicious, she told WND, coming only days after the first mainstream media mention of her upcoming book, which is expected to include accusations of campaign finance violations and new revelations about harassment and threats by the Clintons and their associates.

 

[Olaf]

This is so ridiculous. It would have been far more dangerous if the plane had been loaded with conventional warheads. Some people are so ignorant about nuclear weapons.

 

[DawnCt1]

I'm concerned about both!

What worries me the most, though, are the rotting, disused nuclear submarines of the former USSR - they don't have the money to decommission them and every day they come closer to a tragedy.

But, yeah. I'm concerned about both.



Rich::

3 times since July. Interesting analysis regarding demographics again. Russia has a declining and aging population. A flailing, fast declining power is less bound by the maxims of prudence. Putin is NOT being very prudent. Birthrate, 1.2.

 

[eclectics]

You mean like this? Only this happened this week!
ALL THE EX-PRESIDENT'S SCANDALS
Kathleen Willey: Clintons stole my manuscript
House burglary over weekend targeted copy of book days after details leaked to press
Posted: September 5, 2007
7:00 p.m. Eastern

By Art Moore
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com



Kathleen Willey on "60 Minutes" in 1997
Kathleen Willey, the woman who says Bill Clinton groped her in the Oval Office, claims she was the target of an unusual house burglary over the weekend that nabbed a manuscript for her upcoming book, which promises explosive revelations that could damage Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

Willey told WND little else was taken from her rural Virginia home as she slept alone upstairs – electronics and jewelry were left behind – and she believes the Clintons were behind it.

The break-in, she said, reminded her of the widely reported incident 10 years ago in which she claimed she was threatened near the same Richmond-area home by a stranger just two days before she was to testify against President Clinton in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

The theft of the manuscript early Saturday morning was suspicious, she told WND, coming only days after the first mainstream media mention of her upcoming book, which is expected to include accusations of campaign finance violations and new revelations about harassment and threats by the Clintons and their associates.

Ah, just like a comfortable old slipper, some things never change. I can't wait for the "explosive revelations". Maybe good ol' Kathleen has a polaroid of Bill and Hillary pulling the trigger on Vince Foster.

 

[dcentity2000]

3 times since July. Interesting analysis regarding demographics again. Russia has a declining and aging population. A flailing, fast declining power is less bound by the maxims of prudence. Putin is NOT being very prudent. Birthrate, 1.2.

Putin scares me. Under his command Russia has become steadily more aggressive and well armed. They already hold the most nukes of any nation on this fair world - why do they need more?!

Bloody conservatives

Rich::

 

[disneyfan67]

I"m fairly sure that Eddie isn't suggesting that you NOT be angry about the things that POTUS is legitimately responsible for, just not to be angry at him about everything that goes wrong.

By all means, assign the proper blame to him for the choices that he has made that have been wrong...but this particular one just doesn't fit.

Exactly and thank you for helping me out.


LakeAriel, I just gave the advice I did because I just don't think it's healthy to be this angry at Bush all the time. I'm in no way trying to dismiss your feelings and was just trying to be a friendly voice of reason. While I don't share all your views on certain subjects, I will defend your right as an fellow American to have those views and won't dismiss them. I kind of understand where you're coming from and part of me respects and admires your passion. My advice was, don't let that passion consume you and affect the quality of your life. It serves no purpose to mad all the time, especially when your anger doesn't change anything.
He wasn't responsible for this and you can damage your credibility of any future, legitimate debates by pursuing a non issue like this. There's plenty of things Bush has done that you can rightfully hammer him for and I'm sure he will give you plenty more in the near future.


I went through this entire thread and was shocked by the attitude of certain posters. For the life of me I still can't figure out what Luv Duke did to warrant the unnecessary responses she received and it wasn't fair or justified. I guess some peoples emotions are so near the surface on this war, that they're looking for fights that aren't just there.

It's gotten to the point that you can't have a reasonable, calm discussion anymore about the war or how it's affecting the country.

 

[eclectics]

Putin scares me.

You and me both. I've always said, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could toss a ruble.

 

[dcentity2000]

You and me both. I've always said, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could toss a ruble.

Reminds me of a blog post I made about Russia a while back, specifically, about the Kursk. It's a bit long, so bare with me:

Having just looked into the horrific tragedy that was the Kursk, I’m feeling, well, angry. How the hell could the Russians deny foreign help whilst their people were trapped down there, tapping out SOS messages on the hull? They spend three bloody days down there with their air running out, with water seeping in from all sides and in greater and greater darkness as the emergency lights started to die. How could ANYONE turn away even the slightest hope of saving those poor souls?

I’d also like to know a few other things, right now without any of this political rubbish.

Why was it reported that there was wreckage from an American torpedo next to the craft?

Why did the hull look as if it had been torn into like a knife, like the Titanic?

Why was there a near perfect round hole in the hull whose wreckage was bent inwards, consistent with uranium enriched torpedo damage?

Why was there a British Trident nuclear submarine lurking around so close to the place?

Why were there TWO explosions? And why did the helm not hit the emergency release, forcing the vessel to rise? How about the distress beacon? The helm wasn’t destroyed in the blast so it’s not as if the crew had no time to do so. Heh, “explosions”; the second definitely was one but the first event was more like a tearing noise, so said the Norwegian scientists who picked it up. That goes along with the marks we managed to snap before the military got rid of the press.

Why was the Kursk raised without the damaged part and then destroyed in a military base? Why did the Russians blow up the part left on the sea floor?

Why were we told that the Kursk had no nukes when it had a load of them on board?

Why are the notes that the dying sailors wrote classified? Only parts of some of them are public.

Why was the press banned from taking pictures of the so-called torpedo hole?

Why did the Russian naval admirals say that an American sub had opened fire?

Why did the Kursk go silent way BEFORE the first blast hit it?

Why didn’t the Kursk do or say anything after the first bang? It was still functional, the engine speed was increased by the helm.

Why did Russian battleships escort the rescue boats? What were they scared of?

Why did the USA give Russia a load of cash after they said that America had shot the craft?

Why did sonar detect TWO submarines after the blast? And why did the second one slink slowly off?

Why did the Russians suggest that another craft had rammed it? This I’d dearly like to know, given that two subs were detected on ultrasound (the Kursk and an unidentified one of similar size) and that much of the damage appeared to be a tear.

What about the supposed piece of wreckage from another submarine next to the Kursk? Specifically, the thing that looked just like a submarine’s “fairwater”, whatever that is.

Further to that, why did the Russians label the USS Memphis as the attacker? How would they know? The news that the USS Memphis immediately docked in a Norwegian port for emergency repairs (witnessed by the local press) came AFTER the accusation.

And what the hell is all this torpedo for sale stuff? Apparently Russia has developed torpedo “bullets” that travel three times faster than ours and seemed to be trying to sell them to China and even Canada; as soon as this was picked up on, all documents were classified.

Bloody hell, there are more question still.

How did the fin get it’s gash when it never even touched the sea bed?

Why were all the masts and scopes extended? They’re ALWAYS withdrawn when the sub is down more than ten or so yards.

This external “object”, the supposed second sub… it tried to move to the left and down before the collision. If it was one of our craft, why the hell would it get so close? Surely the Kursk would detect it? I mean, the Kursk was horrendously advanced, it should have picked up on it - but then again, it was silent by that time. Did it detect it?

Green and white rescue buoys were seen; the Russians use red and white buoys. Green and white is British and I believe American too. Why were they there and where did they go? If they weren’t, why lie about them if the Russian Government was simply going to shut the sailors up and deny it?

A number of jet fighters were scrambled with nuclear weapons just after the Kursk was damaged - why the hell would ANYONE scramble those things?

2 NATO “Orion” aircraft were witnessed just after the explosion. Why were they there?

An SOS signal was detected by multiple Russian vessels directly after the tearing noise; it seemed to originate from a vessel, the size and shape of a nuclear submarine, moving away from the Kursk’s location.

Severing the Kursk in two when raising it cost an enormous amount more than simply raising the whole thing. There was a delay and eventually the severed piece on the sea bed was utterly destroyed. Why the wait and what were they hiding? It’s not as if spies could steal all the secrets or anything; the condition of the hull would be far more obvious.

The head of the CIA arrived in Moscow shortly after the blast. It was unannounced and the press heard of his visit a little while later. The Russians said that it was not related to the Kursk. What the hell? Why not say he was coming/there?

The Russians carried out an exercise prior to the tragedy where the same fleet would undergo a mock rescue of crew from a submarine on the seabed at a depth similar to that of the Kursk. The rescue vessel was the Mikhail Rudnitsky. Big coincidence? Nope, BIGGER coincidence since one of the first ships on the scene when the Kursk went down was, that’s right, the Mikhail Rudnitsky. Why was it so close to hand for this near identical situation?

The Russian Navy said that air lines had been established with the Kursk and that many crew members were alive. Both were utter lies. Why string people along? They [the lies] hurt the polls, increased pressure to allow foreign teams in and decimated families. So again - why?

More to the point, why is there so much stuff classified in Russia?

They have video footage of the craft at the time of the explosion which the Deputy Prime Minister said clearly shows a collision with another submarine. If this is false, why is it classified?

What about the notes, one of which detailing what happened? If it was as innocent as an accident, WHY HIDE IT EVEN FROM THE SAILOR’S FAMILY?

And there’s so much utter rubbish…

The supposed other sub was explained as being a jellyfish. WTH? A jellyfish as big as a nuclear sub?

The Nemphiss was reported to have gone in to dock for food, not repairs. The words “emergency repairs” and “food” were mixed up.

Of course, there’s a composite story too.

It says that the Kursk was to carry out a torpedo attack on a training target from periscope depth. Whilst ascending, it hit a very large and solid object that looked for all the world like another submarine; senior Russian military officials said that it was without doubt a “foreign nuclear multi-purpose submarine”.

The two submarines were aware of each other but due to their depth acoustic sensors were pretty rubbish. The impact was at an angle of about 20° to 30°; the foreign object was travelling faster than the Kursk. The combat alarm was heard to have been sounded on board the Kursk at this point. This means that the explosion killed about 40 crew members subsequently died as a direct result of the subsequent explosion, being stationed in the first two compartments.

The foreign object dragged a tear into the Kursk, which penetrated the first four compartments absolutely and the fifth and sixth partly. This was very similar to the fate of the Titanic and left similar damage.

An SOS broadcast was intercepted having originated from a non Russian submersed object approximately the size and shape of a nuclear submarine.

The Kursk flooded quickly and the main power died; it’s reactor shut down by the integrated protection system.

The Kursk then started to sink at an eventual angle of about 45°.

So there you are.

A lot of political fog and rubbish, a tonne of conspiracy theories ranging from US attacks to Russian sabotage and a lot of very, VERY big questions.

I want politicians to show us what happened. I want them to prove it as best they can.

I want to see this debris from another submarine. I want to see those letters the crew wrote. I want to know why the head of the CIA flew over unannounced for totally unrelated matters. I want to know why the press was banned from photographing damage to the hull. I want to know why the entire vessel has been utterly destroyed away from public eyes. I want to know that the HELL that foreign object was - jellyfish my foot. I want to know why fighter jets were scrambled with NUKES. I want to know what emergency repairs the Nemphiss had right after the disaster. I want to know why a British nuclear submarine was lurking around the exercise. I want to know what the hell NATO aircraft were doing there. I want that video footage of the accident released. I want to know why Russia was paid a huge sum of money by the USA directly after.

I want to know the truth right damn now because I’m not gullible enough to believe in jellyfish the size and shape of nuclear submarines, I’m not gullible enough to believe that the words for “food” and “emergency repairs” would be mixed up by translators and I am NOT so much a drone as to accept that tonnes of information is being kept secret to protect what Russian torpedoes look like from the outside.

118 people died. Many survived the blast and even wrote goodbye letters for their families which all got confiscated. Hell, they might have been saved had Russia not clammed up about the circumstances and surrounded the site with warships.

For God’s sake, tell the truth and show us what you found.

If you are telling the truth, you have nothing to hide.

Rich::

 

[Fitswimmer]

Exactly and thank you for helping me out.


LakeAriel, I just gave the advice I did because I just don't think it's healthy to be this angry at Bush all the time. I'm in no way trying to dismiss your feelings and was just trying to be a friendly voice of reason. While I don't share all your views on certain subjects, I will defend your right as an fellow American to have those views and won't dismiss them. I kind of understand where you're coming from and part of me respects and admires your passion. My advice was, don't let that passion consume you and affect the quality of your life. It serves no purpose to mad all the time, especially when your anger doesn't change anything.
He wasn't responsible for this and you can damage your credibility of any future, legitimate debates by pursuing a non issue like this. There's plenty of things Bush has done that you can rightfully hammer him for and I'm sure he will give you plenty more in the near future.


I went through this entire thread and was shocked by the attitude of certain posters. For the life of me I still can't figure out what Luv Duke did to warrant the unnecessary responses she received and it wasn't fair or justified. I guess some peoples emotions are so near the surface on this war, that they're looking for fights that aren't just there.

It's gotten to the point that you can't have a reasonable, calm discussion anymore about the war or how it's affecting the country.

Anytime...we're usually on similar wavelengths so I thought I could help.

It does scare me that as the campaign season begins to heat up the rhetoric and the animosity is growing. I was truly hoping that with this President leaving, some of the attitude on BOTH sides would tone down a bit. I had hoped that with new players on the field, we might see a change in the tone. I got a "joke" email today from one of my Republican friends that basically equates Hillary with Saddam...nice.

 

[Bobbles]

More "truths" from WorldNetDaily!

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

I never would have guessed that soy makes children gay!

 

[crazyforgoofy]

More "truths" from WorldNetDaily!

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

I never would have guessed that soy makes children gay!

Yep, and the entire population of Japan is right there to prove it~