Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[surferdave]

Life goes on - it took us many rounds and years of infertility treatments to get any babies- I would rather stand in line with two screaming infants for an hour than be in the parks childless. We know we are very blessed to be lucky enough to be able to go to Disney world. Even if we spend the entire trip at the resort I'd just be happy to have them there. We will be on their schedule for sure. If we miss a fp+ I'll reschedule it for a later one, if the kids need to nap longer we'll reschedule- the app has been easy to use for us so far. And if we don't get to ride Peter Pan then we'll do it next time.

My parents survived going to wdw with my brother and I as toddlers and some of our best stories are stories of us in standby lines- I don't have any memory of the 7 times I rode space one trip- I do remember singing and dancing with my brother In line for splash mountain. In all honesty our trips became less family oriented once legacy fp started because we just ran from place to place and didn't talk- now that we're older we take our time more and trips are more about friends and family- I'm not advocating a throwback to pre legacy fp but I do enjoy not running for fast passes anymore.

Honestly, I'm sorry to hear about your fertility struggles; my wife and I went through them as well. But as soon as the replies on these threads turn to life's bigger struggles, how privileged people are to be at Disney in the first place, "first world problem" claims, or words like patience or survival start getting thrown around as positives, then I know we're not really talking about how good FP+ is anymore.

 

[btk2333]

Is it really necessary to go there in this conversation? No one here has any idea how difficult or easy it was for anyone else to have children.

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

 

[morethananyonex]

You know what I think is unfair? People who go to Disney more than once a year. To make this fair, I propose a yearly ride limit. After all, what about those poor park guests who can only go once a year? Or those who go even *gasp* every second year?? More frequent guests are riding more than double the rides!!!! Things need to be equalized. Enough with frequent guests taking up valuable ride space, once is enough!

And no more repeat restaurants! One visit a year is enough for you. Leave the spaces open for other people, don't be greedy! I don't care if you pay for it. If you want to eat there so badly AGAIN (but seriously, who repeats things?!?) there's always walk up.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

My point is that you have no idea if the person who said that to you went through any kind of infertility issues as well. Or any other difficult diagnosis or health condition with their child.

Anyway...I tried typing out more to this, but it's not working and I'm not going to continue this line of conversation...surferdave said it better than me anyway.

 

[3smithboys]

I'm going to be the one to say this out loud and frankly it's going to sound awful...

I don't care about anyone else's vacation but mine. I don't care if someone can't get a FP because they chose to sleep in late or had a late flight. Its not my problem.

My getting TWO top tier attractions and thereby denying some one else a FP would be like me going to a buffet restaurant and being told I can't Have steak AND lobster because someone else MIGHT not have a chance to try it IF they run out.

Selfish? Yep. Its my vacation. The only time of year(every other year actually) I do something nice for myself or even get a day off.

And if somehow everyone felt that way and it meant I missed out on something I wanted to do because none were left (which seems more likely with FP+) then that's my problem and I will work around it. Already formulating new strategies. All this new system did is change the disenfranchised from one group to another.

I'm Darwin, baby. Gonna adapt to survive.

It doesn't sounds awful... it's honest and to be honest with you - it's how I feel too. Our first trip to Disney was a nightmare - we went in June, stayed in a house with my in laws, my 17 month old twins, my oldest son was almost 6, my mom, and DH. We had no plan and didn't know what a FP was... let me tell you, it was a disaster! We waited in lines, and we were all hot and miserable.

For our next trip, I found the DIS and did a ton of research! I planned, learned about RD, FP, ect... and our trip was AMAZING!!! We starting coming back every year... I will admit we worked the FP's to our advantage, but since the CM's said it was ok, we were ok with it too...

After reading all of these pages I have to admit I am worried about FP+ for our upcoming July trip. I know that there are several unknown variables, and we will have to wait and see how all of this pans out. However, having boys who are 11, 11, and 16, they want to ride the headliners and are used to being able to to so multiple times a day. I don't see how this is going to happen with FP+? We even talked about vacationing elsewhere, but decided to give it a try before giving up...

Jennasis, if you find a strategy... by all means... let me know!!! I'm in!!!

 

[AmyB2006]

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

I too am sorry for your struggles, but I think she was just commenting on how it's different when you have kids. You can have all the best intentions when you arrive at the parks, but sometimes it goes downhill from there. Or sometimes, it turns out to be great. I hope it does for you.

 

[rt2dz]

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

Look, I understand the infertility and suffering (being the actual suffer) of multiple miscarriages. I feel for you. I get it. I have true sympathy and empathy. I can more than relate. BUT, I also promise you, when your child is in the middle of a meltdown in a public place--McDonalds, Walmart, the grocery store, the school parking lot, Disney--you will not be sighing, going "Awe. That's OK, we love you so and just happy to have you." You WILL be dealing with the reality it is and trying to do what you can to just get it to stop. You will be in all sorts of pain.

Once you actually are a parent, it doesn't matter how you go there or how long it took you to get there. You're there and suddenly you are not as concerned with the journey as you are with the reality of being the parent.

Right now, what you have is theories. And that isn't bad. You have to start somewhere. But the realities are a bit different. You're kids will share a birthday, but they most likely will have different personalities. There likes and dislikes will be different. They are days (maybe every day) that they will go to sleep at different times, wake up at different times, nap at different times. One will be throwing a fit that they've waited in line long enough and the other will throw a fit because that is their favorite ride and are not leaving.

Trust me. Trust all of us. You're theories will be tested and stretched, and often fail. New ones will replace them. Repeat. And, just when it all starts working, everything will change.

 

[btk2333]

I'm going to be the one to say this out loud and frankly it's going to sound awful...

I don't care about anyone else's vacation but mine. I don't care if someone can't get a FP because they chose to sleep in late or had a late flight. Its not my problem.

My getting TWO top tier attractions and thereby denying some one else a FP would be like me going to a buffet restaurant and being told I can't Have steak AND lobster because someone else MIGHT not have a chance to try it IF they run out.

Selfish? Yep. Its my vacation. The only time of year(every other year actually) I do something nice for myself or even get a day off.

And if somehow everyone felt that way and it meant I missed out on something I wanted to do because none were left (which seems more likely with FP+) then that's my problem and I will work around it. Already formulating new strategies. All this new system did is change the disenfranchised from one group to another.

I'm Darwin, baby. Gonna adapt to survive.

And that's how I expect you to act on your vacation; however, Disney does not want one person riding 45 rides a day and 45 families only riding 1 ride per day(hyperbole intentional). That results in 1 happy family (you) and 45 unhappy families (again THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG AND I AM NOT CALLING YOU A BAD PERSON)

However, if you choose to come back and the other 45 families do not, then it is a lot of lost business for Disney- This makes it Disney's problem. They spend a lot of time researching just how many rides the average family needs to do in a day to feel "satisfied." I believe their number is somewhere around 8-10. Disney is hoping the FP+ will help the average, non-DIS family get to 8 rides per day- and yes they are probably giving some of your rides to the other families. Disney is gambling that you will be satisfied with 12-14 rides per day (since you are Darwinian I'm sure you will still do better than average) and that the families that used to only do a few rides per day will decide to come back because they do 8 rides per day.

 

[mom2rtk]

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

You won't be "suffering". But you might be if you pressure yourself to only feel gratefulness. Give yourself permission to experience ALL of the emotions of parenthood, including frustration, even if it's just over something as mundane as waiting in a line at Disney. Don't promise yourself you will never do what "those other" parents are doing. It's a heavy load to carry.

 

[AmyB2006]

You won't be "suffering". But you might be if you pressure yourself to only feel gratefulness. Give yourself permission to experience ALL of the emotions of parenthood, including frustration, even if it's just over something as mundane as waiting in a line at Disney. Don't promise yourself you will never do what "those other" parents are doing. It's a heavy load to carry.

Truer words have never been spoken LOL. I, too, said, "I'm not gonna do that when I'm a parent". HAA!!! Right. Every single thing I said that about, I have done. Multiple times. Whatevs.

 

[twopeasonepod]

Life goes on - it took us many rounds and years of infertility treatments to get any babies- I would rather stand in line with two screaming infants for an hour than be in the parks childless. We know we are very blessed to be lucky enough to be able to go to Disney world. Even if we spend the entire trip at the resort I'd just be happy to have them there. We will be on their schedule for sure. If we miss a fp+ I'll reschedule it for a later one, if the kids need to nap longer we'll reschedule- the app has been easy to use for us so far. And if we don't get to ride Peter Pan then we'll do it next time.

Exactly- which is why I resent having people tell me how I will feel in two years or more when I'm "suffering" through my WDW vacations

I am sorry about your fertility challenges. Our boys were spontaneous (I was AMA so my eggs were popping out like crazy, screaming "Fertilize me before I DIE!") But I am a psychologist, and you know, the one scenario in my practice that really rips into my emotions (which I'm not supposed to let happen, but can't help it) is infertility. Such great would-be parents out there, and so heartbreaking. All the while stupid Kim Kardashian is on her third marriage and needs "a break" after having a baby for three months and has to go to Paris with lame-o to "relax" without her child. Sorry, veered off a little, but you know what I mean.

I absolutely believe that you believe you will feel that way and do those things. I am here to tell you that you should really never say never. It won't be fun if you have to spend the whole time in the resort. I can do that at home, thank you. And my home is way nicer and has way more amenities than a 2BR villa. Especially with little ones. And I promise you, you won't have half the energy and enthusiasm that you have now after having two babies at once. It is exhausting. Breastfeeding twins means your wife will literally not have more than two hours of sleep at a time EVER until they can a) tandem nurse; and b) sleep through the night. You literally have no idea what you are getting into. Every single new parent of twins asks "how did you do it?"

But here is the other side of the coin. You also have no idea how much you are going to love your children. You *think* you do, but you really don't. I can barely even get this out without tearing up, but imagine how much you think you'll love them, and then multiply that by about 500 billion. It is like nothing you have ever felt before. And because you will love them so much, you won't want them to have to fight, fidget, and be bored off their butts for 60 or 90 min. to ride something for 2 min.

You won't be "suffering". But you might be if you pressure yourself to only feel gratefulness. Give yourself permission to experience ALL of the emotions of parenthood, including frustration, even if it's just over something as mundane as waiting in a line at Disney. Don't promise yourself you will never do what "those other" parents are doing. It's a heavy load to carry.

I couldn't agree more! We are human! Everyone makes mistakes and there are twists and turns in everyone's path. We have all been "those other" parents at some time!

 

[TexasErin]

Which is why my suggestions above might be helpful. To be honest, the parks really clear out right after they close to non-resort guests. Staying up until 3 am isn't something that I've done with EMH very often because it is so dead. In the beginning of December, I stayed until 12:30ish, which is late for a young child. However, I think morning EMH might be the way to go for those with young children along with using FP+.

I just wanted to say that while I hate the idea of FP+ as we have been ones who try to always obtain as many Fps as possible, I have enjoyed the tone of your responses. You've made a lot of really good points....However, I have never found it to clear out at PM EMHs. Everybody still heads to the 3 mountains in MK...well, maybe BTMRR slows down a little, but everything else still seems busy to me. We usually go for about 10 days the second that school gets out at the very end of May.

This year we are trying out DL for the first time. First of all, because I've always wanted to go. Secondly, FP+ has really made me not want to go back to WDW. I know we will because we're DVC owners. But as others have said, the idea of trying to explain to DS-11 why he can't ride Space Mountain more than once will make it bad for our whole family. His feet get really tired and he will NOT be a happy camper standing in an hour-long line.....which unfortunately means that a great number of people will probably be witness to his unhappiness.....ugh....

On a semi-related note, my kids don't know that we're going to DL instead (which is why I'm not changing my signature). I can't wait to surprise them.

 

[Laketravis]

You know what I think is unfair? People who go to Disney more than once a year. To make this fair, I propose a yearly ride limit. After all, what about those poor park guests who can only go once a year? Or those who go even *gasp* every second year?? More frequent guests are riding more than double the rides!!!! Things need to be equalized. Enough with frequent guests taking up valuable ride space, once is enough!

And no more repeat restaurants! One visit a year is enough for you. Leave the spaces open for other people, don't be greedy! I don't care if you pay for it. If you want to eat there so badly AGAIN (but seriously, who repeats things?!?) there's always walk up.

I think you're on to something......

 

[twopeasonepod]

I just wanted to say that while I hate the idea of FP+ as we have been ones who try to always obtain as many Fps as possible, I have enjoyed the tone of your responses. You've made a lot of really good points....However, I have never found it to clear out at PM EMHs. Everybody still heads to the 3 mountains in MK...well, maybe BTMRR slows down a little, but everything else still seems busy to me. We usually go for about 10 days the second that school gets out at the very end of May.

This year we are trying out DL for the first time. First of all, because I've always wanted to go. Secondly, FP+ has really made me not want to go back to WDW. I know we will because we're DVC owners. But as others have said, the idea of trying to explain to DS-11 why he can't ride Space Mountain more than once will make it bad for our whole family. His feet get really tired and he will NOT be a happy camper standing in an hour-long line.....which unfortunately means that a great number of people will probably be witness to his unhappiness.....ugh....

On a semi-related note, my kids don't know that we're going to DL instead (which is why I'm not changing my signature). I can't wait to surprise them.

You will LOVE DLR and how compact it is! Want to change parks? Just cross the giant sidewalk and you're there. Hopefully you are staying at GCV and will have your own access to DCA. Awesome for after you ride GRR. Just go up and change! Of course, the ginormousness of WDW has it's benefits, too. But you will have fun!

 

[Rileygirl]

You know what I think is unfair? People who go to Disney more than once a year. To make this fair, I propose a yearly ride limit. After all, what about those poor park guests who can only go once a year? Or those who go even *gasp* every second year?? More frequent guests are riding more than double the rides!!!! Things need to be equalized. Enough with frequent guests taking up valuable ride space, once is enough!

And no more repeat restaurants! One visit a year is enough for you. Leave the spaces open for other people, don't be greedy! I don't care if you pay for it. If you want to eat there so badly AGAIN (but seriously, who repeats things?!?) there's always walk up.

I think the boat is being missed on this entire conversation. Disney is not trying to make things fair. They are trying to make money. Lots of money. And this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY. And as each day passes, as each month passes, as each year passes, this scheme is going to work better and make them more.

And, why shouldnt Disney make money. We want them too, otherwise it would cease to exist. Right?

The big but in this whole thing, the conundrum, is how much of the experience is being sacrificed with this new system.

I would like to suggest that many people view this system to be a big detriment to the way they tour, and feel that most people will not like it, once its fully operational. I disagree. The gross majority are going to love it., for now. Disney is targeting them. (I think).

I also feel that with every month that passes, when more and more of the GP come online and start to prebook, when the off site guest gets in on the action, that my personal experience is likely to diminish significantly in the theme parks. That everyones experience will diminish over time, because of the limit of fp+, the number of people using it, the lack of E attractions particularily at DHS and EPCOT, the ride capacity of the current attractions, the GLARing lack of new attractions coming on line in the past 5 years, coupled with no new true ground breaking on new attractions that are projected to come to disney, all of these things are going to add up.

This system will work great for some vets, and for particular age groups and tour types. I would guess close to half of the vets will live, and maybe even really like the system. But for some groups its sucks right now, and will likely get worse.

But, the vets of WDW are such a small percentage compared to who Disney is likely targeting, it is not going to kill them to piss them off. DVC members and AP holders are a little different, and I dont think Disney has really figured out how to package it. Or they have, and its just not apparent to us.

So, its not about fair. Its about money. IMHO.

 

[Robo]

I think the boat is being missed on this entire conversation. Disney is not trying to make things fair. They are trying to make money. Lots of money. And this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY. And as each day passes, as each month passes, as each year passes, this scheme is going to work better and make them more.

So, its not about fair. Its about money. IMHO.

You say it, but you don't explain HOW "this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY."

They make bags of money now.
How will FP+ make them substantially more money?

 

[wdwlver]

Look, I understand the infertility and suffering (being the actual suffer) of multiple miscarriages. I feel for you. I get it. I have true sympathy and empathy. I can more than relate. BUT, I also promise you, when your child is in the middle of a meltdown in a public place--McDonalds, Walmart, the grocery store, the school parking lot, Disney--you will not be sighing, going "Awe. That's OK, we love you so and just happy to have you." You WILL be dealing with the reality it is and trying to do what you can to just get it to stop. You will be in all sorts of pain. Once you actually are a parent, it doesn't matter how you go there or how long it took you to get there. You're there and suddenly you are not as concerned with the journey as you are with the reality of being the parent. Right now, what you have is theories. And that isn't bad. You have to start somewhere. But the realities are a bit different. You're kids will share a birthday, but they most likely will have different personalities. There likes and dislikes will be different. They are days (maybe every day) that they will go to sleep at different times, wake up at different times, nap at different times. One will be throwing a fit that they've waited in line long enough and the other will throw a fit because that is their favorite ride and are not leaving. Trust me. Trust all of us. You're theories will be tested and stretched, and often fail. New ones will replace them. Repeat. And, just when it all starts working, everything will change.

Extremely well said.

 

[Laz]

I think the boat is being missed on this entire conversation. Disney is not trying to make things fair. They are trying to make money. Lots of money. And this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY. And as each day passes, as each month passes, as each year passes, this scheme is going to work better and make them more.

And, why shouldnt Disney make money. We want them too, otherwise it would cease to exist. Right?

The big but in this whole thing, the conundrum, is how much of the experience is being sacrificed with this new system.

I would like to suggest that many people view this system to be a big detriment to the way they tour, and feel that most people will not like it, once its fully operational. I disagree. The gross majority are going to love it., for now. Disney is targeting them. (I think).

I also feel that with every month that passes, when more and more of the GP come online and start to prebook, when the off site guest gets in on the action, that my personal experience is likely to diminish significantly in the theme parks. That everyones experience will diminish over time, because of the limit of fp+, the number of people using it, the lack of E attractions particularily at DHS and EPCOT, the ride capacity of the current attractions, the GLARing lack of new attractions coming on line in the past 5 years, coupled with no new true ground breaking on new attractions that are projected to come to disney, all of these things are going to add up.

This system will work great for some vets, and for particular age groups and tour types. I would guess close to half of the vets will live, and maybe even really like the system. But for some groups its sucks right now, and will likely get worse.

But, the vets of WDW are such a small percentage compared to who Disney is likely targeting, it is not going to kill them to piss them off. DVC members and AP holders are a little different, and I dont think Disney has really figured out how to package it. Or they have, and its just not apparent to us.

So, its not about fair. Its about money. IMHO.

ALL TRUE!!!

Can Disney convince both newbies and vets alike that their is value in the new system? It about value for my vacation dollars. I can take them elsewhere until I feel I can get value again at WDW. A new park strategy for my family would be rope drop and ride standby in one park until the lines get too long. Then back to the hotel for break. Next we would go to 3 FP+ park after an early dinner, followed by evening EMH. I am not sure I can be convinced this is a value to me. Will enough people feel the same way I do? who knows?

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

Look, I understand the infertility and suffering (being the actual suffer) of multiple miscarriages. I feel for you. I get it. I have true sympathy and empathy. I can more than relate. BUT, I also promise you, when your child is in the middle of a meltdown in a public place--McDonalds, Walmart, the grocery store, the school parking lot, Disney--you will not be sighing, going "Awe. That's OK, we love you so and just happy to have you." You WILL be dealing with the reality it is and trying to do what you can to just get it to stop. You will be in all sorts of pain.

Once you actually are a parent, it doesn't matter how you go there or how long it took you to get there. You're there and suddenly you are not as concerned with the journey as you are with the reality of being the parent.

Right now, what you have is theories. And that isn't bad. You have to start somewhere. But the realities are a bit different. You're kids will share a birthday, but they most likely will have different personalities. There likes and dislikes will be different. They are days (maybe every day) that they will go to sleep at different times, wake up at different times, nap at different times. One will be throwing a fit that they've waited in line long enough and the other will throw a fit because that is their favorite ride and are not leaving.

Trust me. Trust all of us. You're theories will be tested and stretched, and often fail. New ones will replace them. Repeat. And, just when it all starts working, everything will change.

Thank you. I had a whole long thing typed out, but you said it much better.

My original post stands, whether applied towards someone who struggled with infertility or whether towards someone who conceived without issues. I'm not sure why how someone conceived is relevant to what I said at all?

 

[Laketravis]

My DS weighed 3 pounds when he was born. Now, he can only get 3 FP's when he goes to WDW.

Coincidence? Or conspiracy? Hmmmm...........