Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[mom2rtk]

My DS weighed 3 pounds when he was born. Now, he can only get 3 FP's when he goes to WDW.

Coincidence? Or conspiracy? Hmmmm...........

Hey, that means each of my 3 should get 8 FPs each! We might just be able to make that work!

 

[twopeasonepod]

My DS weighed 3 pounds when he was born. Now, he can only get 3 FP's when he goes to WDW. Coincidence? Or conspiracy? Hmmmm...........

Whoa. Glad the little guy is a survivor! I like you theory tho haha.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[rt2dz]

Hey, that means each of my 3 should get 8 FPs each! We might just be able to make that work!

Well, at least all your kids will get the same. I'll have a variety for my kids 5-8. But *I* will get 9!!

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Hey, that means each of my 3 should get 8 FPs each! We might just be able to make that work!

Mine would get NINE.

Seriously, we all understand that FP+ is so minor compared to all the challenges in our individual lives. We all feel grateful for our families and our ability to travel. I doubt many (any?) of us are consumed by thoughts of FP+ as we go through our daily lives. But traveling with kids does add new challenges that change the effect of FP+ on our planning. I love BTMRR and Splash. My kids don't. I do not expect to ride either on my next trip if I can't grab a legacy FP. I wouldn't trade my kids for a theme park ride, but it's still limiting my experience.

 

[surferdave]

So, its not about fair. Its about money. IMHO.

No doubt. But the OP wasn't asking anything about fair. It's also yet to be seen if this was a good money move for Disney.

 

[Laketravis]

Here's the deal - whether you love it or hate it, consider this:

We found it advantageous to go to RD at one park, maybe even during morning EMH, and ride what we wanted to simply using Standby.

Because I did make our 3 FP+ reservations for afternoon or evening at other parks. And that was before tiering.

And it worked very well. No argument whatsoever. Nothing like walking up to TSM or RRnR or Soaring at 4:30 in the afternoon past a boatload of people who are looking at waiting an hour or more......

But here's the problem. As soon as everybody else figures that out (and they will), it won't work that way anymore. When everybody tries to make their FP+ selections for in the afternoon or evening, there won't be any left and the choices the app will present to you will be for.......guess what? Right around RD.

And RD and EMH are going to be crowded as more people take other people's advice to go during those times. We saw that happening a month ago. Remember that window of an hour or two we all use to have when the park opened when everything seemed like a walk-on? That time frame had shrunk down to 30 minutes or less.

Disney can do a lot of magical things, but they can't beat physics. If 5000 people want to ride something that can only accommodate 1000 of them every hour, then those people need to be spread out evenly or somebody is going to have to wait.

And if there are more people who want to utilize that resource in any given day than the maximum capacity of that resource for that day, it doesn't matter if you have FP-, FP+, FP Platinum, or FP Back to the Future. The advantage will always go to whoever claimed their seat first - either real time or 60 days out.

Otherwise, you're gonna have to wait. Maybe even not be able to ride it at all.


(Disclaimer: the above is provided for informational purposes only, and is based on a recent visit comprising 17 days of visual and physical FP+ participation. It is in no way an endorsement, critique, expression of like, dislike, hatred, or disdain of any portion of the process in whole or in part. Past performance is not indicative of future results, and the right to change and or adjust the recommendations herein based on any and all adjustments made by external parties is reserved)

 

[morethananyonex]

I think the boat is being missed on this entire conversation. Disney is not trying to make things fair. They are trying to make money. Lots of money. And this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY.

[snipped]

So, its not about fair. Its about money. IMHO.

I totally agree it's about money not fairness. It's never been about fairness. Disney wants people scheduled at their parks so they don't go offsite so Disney gets more of their money. A side effect may be a more equal level of FP usage simply because of the 3 FP limit placed and an increase in awareness, but that is not why this is happening.

That's why I was poking fun at all the posts that claim this is happening because of those greedy people who had the nerve to repeat rides or get multiple FPs. Some of those same people don't think twice about snagging the good ADRs at 180 days or about the unfairness of people never being able to afford Disney at all.

 

[dayvewc]

You say it, but you don't explain HOW "this system is going to make them BAGS of MONEY."

They make bags of money now.
How will FP+ make them substantially more money?

Substantially may be up for interpretation. But I can see FP+ (and the whole MM+ in general) making Disney more money in several different ways.

*First time guests - who would look at Disney as "just a bigger theme park" and not realize just how much they would need to plan will now get 3 guaranteed rides. And in parks with tiers, they will be subtly guided to pick only 1 headliner attraction. Parks with no tiers, they will more likely be guided to secondary rides, but I would lay even odds that most people are aware that rides containing the word "mountain" are the biggies. These people are going to be more likely (subjectively speaking and IMHO) to be happier with the trip and thus have a more positive recollection for the next time they plan a vacation. More new repeat business = more $.

*Scheduling the FP+'s - By knowing where and when the guests are planning to be (even though plans change) Disney can then schedule the "appropriate" number of CM's. Rather than scheduling what they anticipate based on past experience, they will actually have a sizeable chunk of the tourists self-identifying where they plan to be. By scheduling the minimum number of needed CM's, instead of an estimated/anticipated of potentially needed, payroll drops, and Disney gets more $.

*Monitoring of guest/crowd movement - When full implementation of MB's comes out, and everyone has one, Disney will be able to track exactly where in the parks each person is when (within the radius of the receiver signals). This will allow them to email/text "surprise FP+'s at POTC" or "instant Dole-whip coupons" or some other something based on (next point) to try to move people from more congested to less congested areas. By leveling out crowds the lines for rides will decrease (fewer people in Adventure Land means fewer people in lines in Adventure Land) and giving people a perception of "extra pixie dust" the guests will (more likely, caveats granted) be happier. Which means more likely to take advantage of that "Dole-whip coupon" and buy something they may not have normally.

*Historical data / Data mining - by seeing exactly which guest does what when where and how often, Disney can tailor incentives to assist in the previous point. If the records show that at some point you always buy a Dole-whip after you ride Jungle Cruise and POTC, when you cross the bridge and the system realizes that there is a 40 minute wait at the rides, it can send that "instant coupon" knowing you are more likely to take the time now and save, causing a small delay that (assuming everything works correctly) will allow the lines to decrease on your rides. While this does not necessarily get Disney more money right here, when guests notice that the alerts "save" them money on things they normally buy, they will be more likely to buy something new when that alert comes in. Which is where Disney can make more $.

I am relatively sure that there are many other ways that Disney can use all of this to make money, but these are all things I can think of in just a few moments. Given that Disney surely has at least 1 or 2 bean counters who are probably more cognizant of how Disney works than I am, I would put really good odds that there are many more money making methods we have yet to see in the My Magic Magic Bands.

 

[DizneyLizzy]

As soon as I heard about the tiers, I thought, this is how Disney is going to make more money - they will get people to stay longer/spend more than one day at each park so they can be sure to get all of their headliner fast passes. Not sure how many people this will cause to add a day or two to their trip, but this could have been one of disney's motivations. I don't think ANY of this new system is about Disney wanting to "spread the FP wealth." It's all about the profits.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

*Monitoring of guest/crowd movement - When full implementation of MB's comes out, and everyone has one, Disney will be able to track exactly where in the parks each person is when (within the radius of the receiver signals). This will allow them to email/text "surprise FP+'s at POTC" or "instant Dole-whip coupons" or some other something based on (next point) to try to move people from more congested to less congested areas.

*Historical data / Data mining - by seeing exactly which guest does what when where and how often, Disney can tailor incentives to assist in the previous point. If the records show that at some point you always buy a Dole-whip after you ride Jungle Cruise and POTC, when you cross the bridge and the system realizes that there is a 40 minute wait at the rides, it can send that "instant coupon" knowing you are more likely to take the time now and save, causing a small delay that (assuming everything works correctly) will allow the lines to decrease on your rides. While this does not necessarily get Disney more money right here, when guests notice that the alerts "save" them money on things they normally buy, they will be more likely to buy something new when that alert comes in. Which is where Disney can make more $.

Being Devil's Advocate here, but if the data shows you always get a Dole Whip and pay full price, would Disney really be inclined to send you a coupon? Then they are actually making less money. I hope your theory is true tho. I ALWAYS get one when I'm over there!

 

[dayvewc]

Being Devil's Advocate here, but if the data shows you always get a Dole Whip and pay full price, would Disney really be inclined to send you a coupon? Then they are actually making less money. I hope your theory is true tho. I ALWAYS get one when I'm over there!

Ahhh, but if the coupon is "Half-priced Mickey pretzel with the purchase of a Dole-whip for the next 20 minutes" now they have you paying what you normally would PLUS the extra cost of the pretzel. AND you are being delayed while they fire up an extra boat on JC to help reduce the line. Everyone is happier.

Not to mention, if you took advantage of the Dole-whip coupon (which you would normally buy anyway) will you also take advantage of a cupcake coupon on Main Street (that you may not normally buy)?

And when they can track where you are, when you ate (or at least bought something to eat) they can then target advertisements to people who are hungry and susceptible to a sugar-rush impulse buy.


Not to mention, depending on how integrated they make all the systems, they could send a text to your phone that says "Buy a Dole-whip and Mickey pretzel in the next 10 minutes and receive a bonus FP to POTC. Just keep your receipt" and have the FP printed on the receipt. That would entice people to buy something they don't normally (the pretzel), while buying something they normally do (the Dole-Whip), and making use of crowd management by moving people to where rides are being under-utilized. As well as, if they notice you have never bought a Dole-Whip, they can tailor the coupon to something that, historically, they know you DO buy and couple it with something you either don't normally buy or have never bought. Getting you hooked with what you do, and adding on what you don't.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Ahhh, but if the coupon is "Half-priced Mickey pretzel with the purchase of a Dole-whip for the next 20 minutes" now they have you paying what you normally would PLUS the extra cost of the pretzel. AND you are being delayed while they fire up an extra boat on JC to help reduce the line. Everyone is happier.

Not to mention, if you took advantage of the Dole-whip coupon (which you would normally buy anyway) will you also take advantage of a cupcake coupon on Main Street (that you may not normally buy)?

And when they can track where you are, when you ate (or at least bought something to eat) they can then target advertisements to people who are hungry and susceptible to a sugar-rush impulse buy.

Not to mention, depending on how integrated they make all the systems, they could send a text to your phone that says "Buy a Dole-whip and Mickey pretzel in the next 10 minutes and receive a bonus FP to POTC. Just keep your receipt" and have the FP printed on the receipt. That would entice people to buy something they don't normally (the pretzel), while buying something they normally do (the Dole-Whip), and making use of crowd management by moving people to where rides are being under-utilized. As well as, if they notice you have never bought a Dole-Whip, they can tailor the coupon to something that, historically, they know you DO buy and couple it with something you either don't normally buy or have never bought. Getting you hooked with what you do, and adding on what you don't.

Oh didn't think of tying it in with something else. Could work for sure. Well unfortunately not for me because I have to eat gluten free (sadly...VERY sadly) no Mickey pretzel for me. But I totally see what you're saying and I hope you're right. I'm sure they will know I'm gf b/c of all my previous gf purchases too so maybe they can tailor that as well.

 

[dayvewc]

Oh didn't think of tying it in with something else. Could work for sure. Well unfortunately not for me because I have to eat gluten free (sadly...VERY sadly) no Mickey pretzel for me. But I totally see what you're saying and I hope you're right. I'm sure they will know I'm gf b/c of all my previous gf purchases too so maybe they can tailor that as well.

All depending on how well they integrate all the systems, but they most definitely could.

I'm of a split mind on the whole thing. One part of me says, "Wow, look at all the really cool/fun/interesting stuff they could/can/might do." While the other is thinking "Between the NSA, CIA, FBI, KGB, MI6, and some others I don't even know, my tin-foil hat is already 4 inches thick. Please don't monitor me anymore!!"

 

[practicallyperfect77]

All depending on how well they integrate all the systems, but they most definitely could.

I'm of a split mind on the whole thing. One part of me says, "Wow, look at all the really cool/fun/interesting stuff they could/can/might do." While the other is thinking "Between the NSA, CIA, FBI, KGB, MI6, and some others I don't even know, my tin-foil hat is already 4 inches thick. Please don't monitor me anymore!!"

I hear ya on the monitoring thing, but honestly think I have given up that fight. I'd rather have Disney doing it (especially if I get deals and coupons) than the gov't.

 

[dayvewc]

I'm just kind of hoping that when all is said and done, and they get everything finished, that the MDE will be able to show/link EVERYTHING. Tickets (AP's), DVC, TiW, PP/MM, FP+, KTTW (Roomkeys), Credit/debit/gift cards, AAA, Disney Visa, etc., etc., etc..

That way, when I go buy my Dole-whip or pretzel or lunch at BoG or whatever it may be, the system will simply pull up and the CM can say "Oh, I see you have the Tables in Wonderland discount. Are you paying with your Disney Visa this time?" Rather than me having to take all the various cards and identifications with me each and every day.

 

[Rileygirl]

Really?

You dont think Disney is motivated by money?

Getting offsite guests alone on the magic band is casino chip magic. They are making more money off the same number of resort guests with this scheme to begin with. Have you never read any of rustyscraper on the rumours board?

Seriously? Ok, I will go back to lurking. But I will say this, that legacy being eliminated this soon is big news. And its all about bean counting. And there is no one as brilliant as the Disney bean counters. Its a subtle, psychological revolution.

I always appreciate the imput of disboarders. it will help me decide how to use the system when I am down south. So I will read the upcoming threads with enthusiasm.

~A

 

[kathy884]

The advent of FP+ actually got me a diehard offsite advocate (love the bang for the buck) to consider onsite. To justify those prices to many of us, they need something more than EMHs, etc.

We usually don't do a lot of repeat riding, so FP+ without tiers would work pretty well for us. With tiers, though, busy season it encourages multiple days at the parks, something else Disney would like more people to do. We never do more than two Disney park days per trip.

I really, though, couldn't get fired up about high season offsite with FP+. I priced out onsite moderate, and I didn't like the prices for what I was getting. I considered value too, but couldn't get that fired up about that either. I like the deluxe properties, but the prices are really high (outside my budget and way more than I would pay in Orlando). I hate paying so much extra for onsite because we do so much offsite too and I don't like to move (want to stay put for the whole trip). When push came to shove, Disney is still getting some vacation dollars from me, but instead of going to WDW, the option I liked best was an Anaheim add on to an LA/Hollywood trip we are doing. I'm staying at the Fairfield Inn that is an eight minute walk to the main gate at Disneyland and spending a day at each of the parks there. They are still on FP- and have more headliners at each park than WDW has at theirs. Orlando is wonderful, and I'm sure we'll be back (have done 35 trips since 71), but this will be kind of fun and FP+ is a big reason that I'm inclined to try this. Glad I found a Disney add on I could get fired up about, but it's not WDW for this next trip. // I'm actually staying in two places too (Hollywood for the LA/Hollywood portion of the trip and Anaheim for the Titanic / Disneyland portion, but given that the two locations are a good hour or more away from each other (and that's in low traffic) the move seems more justified to me than doing a split onsite / offsite stay in Orlando. lol

 

[surferdave]

Really?

You dont think Disney is motivated by money?

Getting offsite guests alone on the magic band is casino chip magic. They are making more money off the same number of resort guests with this scheme to begin with. Have you never read any of rustyscraper on the rumours board?

Seriously? Ok, I will go back to lurking. But I will say this, that legacy being eliminated this soon is big news. And its all about bean counting. And there is no one as brilliant as the Disney bean counters. Its a subtle, psychological revolution.

I always appreciate the imput of disboarders. it will help me decide how to use the system when I am down south. So I will read the upcoming threads with enthusiasm.

~A

Who are you replying to? Who challenged your assertion that Disney's motivation was making money?

 

[Robo]

Really?

You dont think Disney is motivated by money?

Getting offsite guests alone on the magic band is casino chip magic. They are making more money off the same number of resort guests with this scheme to begin with. Have you never read any of rustyscraper on the rumours board?

Seriously? Ok, I will go back to lurking. But I will say this, that legacy being eliminated this soon is big news. And its all about bean counting. And there is no one as brilliant as the Disney bean counters. Its a subtle, psychological revolution.

I always appreciate the imput of disboarders. it will help me decide how to use the system when I am down south. So I will read the upcoming threads with enthusiasm.

~A

I can't tell if you're replying to me from hours ago (and a page back,)
but I agree that Disney, as are most corporations (and people,) motivated by money and profits.

My question, however, was HOW was FP+ going to MAKE buckets of money?

Disney has lots of ways to make money, but spending a reported Billion dollars, plus on this means that they think it will make back that and much more over a reasonable amount of time.

I wasn't disagreeing that they WANT to make money off of anything that they do, I just don't see how FP+ is going to be their high-speed route to riches.

 

[orangefan15]

I'm just kind of hoping that when all is said and done, and they get everything finished, that the MDE will be able to show/link EVERYTHING. Tickets (AP's), DVC, TiW, PP/MM, FP+, KTTW (Roomkeys), Credit/debit/gift cards, AAA, Disney Visa, etc., etc., etc..

That way, when I go buy my Dole-whip or pretzel or lunch at BoG or whatever it may be, the system will simply pull up and the CM can say "Oh, I see you have the Tables in Wonderland discount. Are you paying with your Disney Visa this time?" Rather than me having to take all the various cards and identifications with me each and every day.

I have some hope its headed this way. Twice this trip I've forgotten to ask for my AP discount to be applied to a meal, but the waiter has come back after scanning my band for the room charge and said "I saw you are a pass holder so I applied this discount." Would be nice if they could just automate it somehow.